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Russia should never interfere in any other nation's internal politics, meanwhile the USA and IMF is helping kill Venezuela

POSTED BY: SIGNYM
UPDATED: Thursday, April 4, 2019 19:29
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 1228
PAGE 1 of 2

Wednesday, January 23, 2019 10:44 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


But it's OK when the USA does it.

Venezuela.

More later.

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Thursday, January 24, 2019 7:35 AM

REAVERFAN


Yeah, we're all dying to hear what a Russian troll has to say about it.

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Thursday, January 24, 2019 11:14 AM

REAVERFAN


I can't post videos here anymore.

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Thursday, January 24, 2019 11:21 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Oh, pobrecito!

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

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Thursday, January 24, 2019 1:00 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


So, let's go back to Venezuela's 2018 election, which Nicolas Maduro won by 67.7% compared to the nearest opposition candidate, Henri Falcon, who gained only 21.2% of the vote, 11% to Javier Bertucci. These were widely reported figures, they can be found anywhere but here is a link to DW/ Die Welt/ The World
https://www.dw.com/en/nicolas-maduro-wins-venezuela-presidential-elect
ion/a-43864318


And another link
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/world/americas/venezuela
/article211552034.html


There were a number of objections to the election process revolving around several things:

1) The timing of the election, which was moved from December 2018 to April 2018, and then to May 2018

2) The fact that opposition parties, which had boycotted the municipal elections in 2017, were banned from the 2018 Presidential election, https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/dec/11/venezuela-president-madu
ro-threatens-to-ban-rivals-from-future-elections
. This led to a low turnout, which was roughly 46% of eligible voters. This was most likely due to the opposition's decision to boycott the election, which turned out to be a serious tactical mistake, leaving the field open for Maduro.

3) "Irregularities"

TIMING
I'm not going to discuss the timing of the election, but since people were agitating for a referendum in 2017, it seems to me like "the sooner, the better" would be the preferred schedule. If anyone wants to dispute that, feel free.


BANNING/BOYCOTTING/LOW TURNOUT
Now, the opposition parties that were banned were Justice First, Popular Will and Democratic Action.

Justice First was at the time headed by Henrique Capriles. It has a history of sometimes boycotting and sometimes contesting various elections. Justice First candidates ran for Assembly in 2000 and won five seats, boycotted 2005 Assembly elections, ran for President in 2006 but the candidate bailed at the last minute, ran for Assembly in 2010 and gained six members in a 165-seat body, boycotted the municipal elections in 2017, and was banned from/boycotted the 2018 Presidential elections. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justice_First

Popular Will was founded by, and is headed by Leopoldo Lopez. It held 14 seats in the Assembly, but I haven't been able to find any recent data on its popularity. (WIKI)

In 2015 (?) Democratic Action won 26 seats in the Assembly, but I haven't been able to find anything on their recent popularity. (WIKI)

This left Henri Falcon, who decided to run last-minute as opposition in the 2018 Presidential elections after previously vowing to boycott. Unfortunately for "the opposition", they couldn't unify around the remaining major opposition candidate.

Clearly, there has been a lot of political maneuvering by both the government and the opposition in Venezuela (especially with the formation of the Constituent Assembly by the Maduro government in 2017, a legislative rival to the National Assembly and made up of Maduro supporters) but boycotting elections has not been a winning tactic for the opposition. IF they had committed to running in the mayoral and Presidential elections, they might have has as much success - or more- as the opposition (in general) had in the Assembly as the Democratic Unity Roundtable, where they gained a collective supermajority in 2105 (and subsequently fell apart later). https://en.wikiyy.com/wiki/Democratic_Unity_Roundtable

ELECTION PROCESS/"IRREGULARITIES"

As far as the election process itself, these international observers describe the process as the strong and secure




And this observer believes it was free and fair



After-the-fact complaints about "dirty tricks" and "ballot-stuffing" by the opposition are framed in western press as "alleged" ... but, of course, they're constantly repeated.

Maduro re-elected as Venezuela's Prez amid boycott, alleged irregularities
https://www.business-standard.com/article/international/maduro-re-elec
ted-as-venezuela-s-prez-amid-boycott-alleged-irregularities-118052100228_1.html


Venezuela election: Maduro wins second term amid claims of vote rigging
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-44187838

Venezuela's Maduro declared election winner amid illegitimacy claims
https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/venezuela-election-1.4671212

Opponents slam Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro's election victory as a sham
https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/20/americas/venezuela-elections/index.html

Venezuela's Maduro re-elected amid outcry [by whom?] over vote
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/venezuelas-maduro-re-elected-amid
-outcry-over-vote/ar-AAxxsfE


Some general information about the election
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/05/venezuela-elections-2018-key-po
ints-180518100733025.html


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

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Thursday, January 24, 2019 1:20 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


More later. Much later, I'll be busy.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

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Thursday, January 24, 2019 1:23 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Except this, which I found interesting




So far, REAVERBOT, I haven't had problems posting videos.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

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Thursday, January 24, 2019 2:04 PM

REAVERFAN


Trump wants his coup. He needs a distraction from his multiple massive failures as an incompetent Putin tool.

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Thursday, January 24, 2019 2:07 PM

THG


Russia should never interfere in any other nation's internal politics
POSTED BY: SIGNYM
UPDATED: Thursday, January 24, 2019 14:04
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 60
PAGE 1 of 1

Agreed...


T



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Thursday, January 24, 2019 3:49 PM

THG


Ukrainian court sentences ex-president Yanukovich to 13 years in prison

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ukraine-crisis-yanukovich-idUSKCN1P
I27B


T


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Friday, January 25, 2019 3:09 PM

REAVERFAN


Pence Pledged U.S. Backing Before Venezuela Opposition Leader’s Move
Trump administration’s secret plan offering support for opposition leader Juan Guaidó was preconceived and tightly coordinated
https://www.wsj.com/articles/a-call-from-pence-helped-set-an-uncertain
-new-course-in-venezuela-11548430259


The night before Juan Guaidó declared himself interim president of Venezuela, the opposition leader received a phone call from Vice President Mike Pence.

Mr. Pence pledged that the U.S. would back Mr. Guaidó if he seized the reins of government from Nicolás Maduro by invoking a clause in the South American country’s constitution, a senior administration official said.

That late-night call set in motion a plan that had been developed in secret over the preceding several weeks, accompanied by talks between U.S. officials, allies, lawmakers and key Venezuelan opposition figures, including Mr. Guaidó himself.

Venezuela regime change big business opportunity: John Bolton
https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/venezuela-regime-change-big-busin
ess-opportunity


Jesus, they don't try to hide it. Regime change for their rich buddies.

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Friday, January 25, 2019 3:42 PM

REAVERFAN


Looks like Russia is interfering in yet another nation's internal politics.

Kremlin-linked contractors help guard Venezuela's Maduro
https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKCN1PJ22M?__twitter_impress
ion=true&utm_source=reddit.com



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Friday, January 25, 2019 4:55 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Yes, Russia is protecting the government of Venezuela while the USA is promoting "regime change". Again. And I see we have warmongers promoting "regime change". Again.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

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Friday, January 25, 2019 6:56 PM

THG


Speaking to reporters in the Capitol, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said the Stone indictment reflects poorly on Trump and should be seen in the broader context of a series of pro-Kremlin administration foreign policy maneuvers.

T


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Friday, January 25, 2019 8:34 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Originally posted by THG:
Speaking to reporters in the Capitol, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said the Stone indictment reflects poorly on Trump and should be seen in the broader context of a series of pro-Kremlin administration foreign policy maneuvers.



My god, you and REAVERBOT are so fucking stupid it's unfathomable. You think that attempting "regime change" in Venezuela- a nation that Russia partners with- is a "pro-Kremlin... maneuver"?



Un-fucking-believable.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

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Friday, January 25, 2019 8:55 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


It must be quite comfortable to live in a reality so objective that you can alter any narrative to fit your world vision.

They're like that kid in the Matrix. "There is no spoon".

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Friday, January 25, 2019 10:20 PM

REAVERFAN


I'm entirely against the US-backed coup attempt. Just like I was in 2002.

But they have oil, and a leader we don't control. And Trump is president. And John Bolton has his ear.

They don't even try to hide it.

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Friday, January 25, 2019 10:56 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Originally posted by reaverfan:
I'm entirely against the US-backed coup attempt. Just like I was in 2002.

But they have oil, and a leader we don't control. And Trump is president. And John Bolton has his ear.

They don't even try to hide it.



For once, we agree.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

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Friday, January 25, 2019 11:17 PM

REAVERFAN


Yes. I know your M.O.

Obama bad, Trump good, but Putin is God.

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Friday, January 25, 2019 11:52 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Originally posted by reaverfan:
Yes. I know your M.O.

Obama bad, Trump good, but Putin is God.

Oh, you're back to being stupid again?

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

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Saturday, January 26, 2019 9:36 AM

REAVERFAN


It's just what you do.

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Monday, January 28, 2019 12:04 PM

REAVERFAN



AP Exclusive: Anti-Maduro coalition grew from secret talks
https://apnews.com/d548c6a958ee4a1fb8479b242ddb82fd

Boots Riley: "This AP article shows that this coup attempt in Venezuela has been being planned since Trump entered office. Many of the protests were partially planned outside of Venezuela by the US, other South American right-wing leaders, Trump, and the Lima Group."
https://twitter.com/BootsRiley/status/1089747898869329921

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Monday, January 28, 2019 12:48 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.





-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

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Monday, January 28, 2019 5:42 PM

THG


Quote:

Originally posted by THG:

Russia should never interfere in any other nation's internal politics

POSTED BY: SIGNYM
UPDATED: Thursday, January 24, 2019 14:04
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 60
PAGE 1 of 1

Agreed...


T







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Tuesday, January 29, 2019 7:45 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


From RF's link
Quote:

It was no small diplomatic feat, comparable in recent times only to how the hemisphere in 1994 rallied behind Jean Bertrand Aristide to bring him back to power in Haiti after we was deposed in a coup, given the mistrust of the U.S. in Latin America stemming from U.S. military interventions in the region during the Cold War. Just as impressive, the tough-handed approach drew bipartisan support, with two of the Senate’s most senior Democrats, Dick Durbin and Bob Menendez, offering praise.


It seems that BOTH parties are filled with neocons and warhawks. Obama, despite having voted against the Iraq war (a reason to vote for him over Hillary) managed to destroy at least three nations during his presidency, and it looks like Trump- despite his campaign promises - is following in Obama's footsteps.

Great. Just great.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

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Saturday, February 2, 2019 9:21 AM

THG


Quote:

Originally posted by THG:
Quote:

Originally posted by THG:

Russia should never interfere in any other nation's internal politics

POSTED BY: SIGNYM
UPDATED: Thursday, January 24, 2019 14:04
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 60
PAGE 1 of 1

Agreed...









Venezuelan general recognizes opposition leader Guaido as president

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-venezuela-politics-general-idUSKCN1
PR0E1


T


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Saturday, February 2, 2019 9:54 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Wasn't Venezuela some sort of celebrated Socialist Utopia or something?

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Saturday, February 2, 2019 11:06 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Venezuela did what Ocasio-Cortez wants to do ... Chavez nationalized Venezueal's oil wealth, and used it to "help" poor people (education, healthcare, housing) WITHOUT BUILDING A PRODUCTIVE STABLE ECONOMY AS WELL.

Venezuela relied on its oil money (like Ocasio-Cortez wants to rely on our financialization-money) to import almost everything. Then, when oil prices fell (or when the dollar will fall) suddenly imports became unaffordable, and they had a large swath of the population used to government handouts who were suddenly going hungry. But, they didn't know how to farm ... or anything else for that matter ... so society fell apart.

Cuba went thru something similar when the USSR fell apart. Suddenly, all those trade deals for oil imports were void, and Cuba went thru an energy shock the likes of which have not been seen before or since. But Cubans, if nothing else, knew how to farm, and the embargo that the USA placed on Cuba made self-sufficiency a higher priority. So the government made farming and food production a priority, and altho people lost weight they actually became healthier because they ate less fatty pork and more beans and vegetables, and the Cubans got thru it.

There's no social discipline in Venezuela - like there's no social discipline here - just a bunch of urban poor who got used to things being given to them. It's a common problem for nations rich in oil (or some other valued trade item like the petrodollar) to rely on that commodity for everything, but if that commodity goes sour then the people are hosed. What you have left are a bunch of people who're used to being "consumers"... and there's nothing to "consume".

Each nation needs to build it's economy to be as self-sufficient as possible with whatever resources it has. Venezuela would have been far better off importing Cuban farmers instead of Cuban doctors, and learning how to make use of its mild climate and fertile soil.


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

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Saturday, February 2, 2019 2:32 PM

REAVERFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Venezuela did what Ocasio-Cortez wants to do ... Chavez nationalized Venezueal's oil wealth, and used it to "help" poor people (education, healthcare, housing) WITHOUT BUILDING A PRODUCTIVE STABLE ECONOMY AS WELL.

Venezuela relied on its oil money (like Ocasio-Cortez wants to rely on our financialization-money) to import almost everything. Then, when oil prices fell (or when the dollar will fall) suddenly imports became unaffordable, and they had a large swath of the population used to government handouts who were suddenly going hungry. But, they didn't know how to farm ... or anything else for that matter ... so society fell apart.

Cuba went thru something similar when the USSR fell apart. Suddenly, all those trade deals for oil imports were void, and Cuba went thru an energy shock the likes of which have not been seen before or since. But Cubans, if nothing else, knew how to farm, and the embargo that the USA placed on Cuba made self-sufficiency a higher priority. So the government made farming and food production a priority, and altho people lost weight they actually became healthier because they ate less fatty pork and more beans and vegetables, and the Cubans got thru it.

There's no social discipline in Venezuela - like there's no social discipline here - just a bunch of urban poor who got used to things being given to them. It's a common problem for nations rich in oil (or some other valued trade item like the petrodollar) to rely on that commodity for everything, but if that commodity goes sour then the people are hosed. What you have left are a bunch of people who're used to being "consumers"... and there's nothing to "consume".

Each nation needs to build it's economy to be as self-sufficient as possible with whatever resources it has. Venezuela would have been far better off importing Cuban farmers instead of Cuban doctors, and learning how to make use of its mild climate and fertile soil.


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .



You're a joke, Russian troll.

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Saturday, February 2, 2019 4:44 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


It's not that the wealthy shouldn't be taxed ... btw since the wealthy make their money on capital gains, not wages, it would be better to restore capital gains tax, and also tax short-term gains higher than long-term gains (In fact, it would be best to understand HOW this ginormous wealth disparity came about in the first place and eliminate those pathways) ... the question is what to do with the money.

If all you do is hand the money to people, then you're following the Venezuelan plan, because all that will happen is that people will take that money and spend it ... on goods made in China. Good for China, bad for us.

So along with the "peace economy" that Ocasio-Cortez proposed, which would save a metric crap-ton of Federal money, there are several options for that cash

1) Reduce our Federal debt, which makes us extremely vulnerable to sudden loss of dollar value.

2) Restore our infrastructure, particularly (green) energy generation and making our energy grid and transportation system more robust.

3) Create a stash of money for Federal loans for manufacturing, especially critical manufacturing. It's obvious that the tax cuts that Trump engineered to repatriate our dollars went into stock buybacks and other financial speculation, not productive economy. We can't trust the banks - or the industries- to invest in physical production, so somebody needs to take that over.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

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Saturday, February 2, 2019 5:52 PM

REAVERFAN


Don't say "our." It's not yours.

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Saturday, February 2, 2019 8:15 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Is there any point(s) in particular that you'd care to argue Signy on here, Marcos, or are we just throwing out insults again in lieu of having any legitimate argument?

Nothing she said here about Venezuela or Cuba sounds off. On top of that, not only did she say that the wealthy should be taxed by capitol gains rather than income tax since that IS where they make the most of their money, but that instead of just giving the money away we could put people to work on infrastructure and green projects and paying down the federal debt.

These all seem like good points that even Democrats could get behind. I'm curious what you don't agree with here.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Saturday, February 2, 2019 8:59 PM

REAVERFAN


I've already posted relevant links. Note the "Lima group."

It's amazing what you can learn if you bother to read.

It's sad that we have a president who can't.

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Sunday, February 3, 2019 12:36 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


AP Exclusive: Anti-Maduro coalition grew from secret talks
By JOSHUA GOODMAN, LUIS ALONSO LUGO and ROB GILLIESJanuary 26, 2019
1 of 2
FILE - In this Jan. 5, 2019, file photo, Venezuelan lawmaker Juan Guaido takes the oath of office as president of the National Assembly in Caracas, Venezuela. A coalition of Latin American governments that joined the U.S. in quickly recognizing Guaido as Venezuela’s interim president, and not Nicolas Maduro, came together during weeks of secret diplomacy. (AP Photo/Fernando Llano, File)

CARACAS, Venezuela (AP) — The coalition of Latin American governments that joined the U.S. in quickly recognizing Juan Guaido as Venezuela’s interim president came together over weeks of secret diplomacy that included whispered messages to activists under constant surveillance and a high-risk foreign trip by the opposition leader challenging President Nicolas Maduro for power, those involved in the talks said.

In mid-December, Guaido quietly traveled to Washington, Colombia and Brazil to brief officials on the opposition’s strategy of mass demonstrations to coincide with Maduro’s expected swearing-in for a second term on Jan. 10 in the face of widespread international condemnation, according to exiled former Caracas Mayor Antonio Ledezma, an ally.

To leave Venezuela, he sneaked across the lawless border with Colombia, so as not to raise suspicions among immigration officials who sometimes harass opposition figures at the airport and bar them from traveling abroad, said a different anti-government leader, speaking on condition of anonymity to discuss security arrangements.

Building consensus in the fragmented anti-government coalition proved to be an uphill battle. The opposition has for years been divided by egos and strategy, as well as a government crackdown that has sent several prominent leaders into exile, making face-to-face meetings impossible. Others inside Venezuela were being heavily watched by intelligence agencies, and all were concerned about tipping off the government.

Long sessions of encrypted text messaging became the norm, the opposition leader said. A U.S. official said intermediaries were used to deliver messages to Guaido’s political mentor and opposition power broker Leopoldo Lopez, who is under house arrest after he tried and failed to lead a mass uprising against Maduro in 2014. The U.S. official spoke on condition of anonymity out of security concerns.

Despite Guaido’s personal assurances in Bogota that he would declare himself interim president at a Jan. 23 rally coinciding with the anniversary of the 1958 coup that ended Venezuela’s military dictatorship, the suspense lasted until the hours before the announcement, said a Latin American diplomat from the Lima Group who requested anonymity because he was not authorized to speak to the media. Some moderate factions were left in the dark or wanted to go slower, worrying that a bold move would lead to another failure for the opposition. In the end, those differences were smoothed over internally, without any public discord.

“This is the first time in at least five years the opposition has shown an ability to come together in any meaningful manner,” said a senior Canadian official who spoke on the condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to talk publicly.

The decision to confront Maduro directly was only possible because of strong support from the Trump administration, which led a chorus of mostly conservative Latin American governments that immediately recognized Guaido.

It was no small diplomatic feat, comparable in recent times only to how the hemisphere in 1994 rallied behind Jean Bertrand Aristide to bring him back to power in Haiti after we was deposed in a coup, given the mistrust of the U.S. in Latin America stemming from U.S. military interventions in the region during the Cold War. Just as impressive, the tough-handed approach drew bipartisan support, with two of the Senate’s most senior Democrats, Dick Durbin and Bob Menendez, offering praise.

The watershed moment was President Donald Trump’s stunning remark in August 2017 from the steps of his New Jersey golf club that a “military option” was on the table to deal with the Venezuelan crisis.

In the weeks that followed, Trump went on to strongly condemn Maduro in his address to the U.N. General Assembly as well as quietly press aides and some Latin American leaders about a military invasion of the country.

From then on, countries in the region realized they had a partner in the U.S. willing to tackle a crisis that had been years in the making but which previous U.S. administrations had chosen to play down because of limited national security implications, said Fernando Cutz, a former senior national security adviser on Latin America to both President Barack Obama and Trump.

For some, especially Mexico, which was renegotiating NAFTA, adopting a more aggressive stance was also an opportunity to gain leverage in bilateral relations with the Trump administration.

“Trump has personally sparked a lot of this,” said Cutz, now with the Cohen Group, a Washington consulting firm. “Literally in every interaction that he has had with Latin American leaders since taking office, he brings up Venezuela. That has forced a lot of hands.”

On Jan. 4 — a day before Guaido was sworn in as national assembly president — foreign ministers from 13 nations of the Lima Group, which doesn’t include the U.S., said they wouldn’t recognize Maduro’s second term.

That set off a scramble at the White House to make sure it wasn’t being left behind, said a former U.S. official and congressional staffer who was in close contact with the national security council. Both spoke on the condition of anonymity because they weren’t authorized to discuss the administration’s planning.

Playing a key role behind the scenes was Lima Group member Canada, whose Foreign Minister Chrystia Freeland spoke to Guaido the night before Maduro’s swearing-in ceremony to offer her government’s support should he confront the socialist leader, the Canadian official said. Also active was Colombia, which shares a border with Venezuela and has received more than 2 million migrants fleeing economic chaos, along with Peru and Brazil’s new far-right President Jair Bolsonaro.

https://apnews.com/d548c6a958ee4a1fb8479b242ddb82fd

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

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Sunday, February 3, 2019 1:12 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


“I Oppose Interventionism, But-”
But Nothing. Don’t Be A Pro Bono CIA Propagandist.

https://medium.com/@caityjohnstone/i-oppose-interventionism-but-but-nothing-dont-be-a-pro-bono-cia-propagandist-26633bd33ee9

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

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Sunday, February 3, 2019 10:14 AM

THG


Austria to recognize Guaido if Venezuela's Maduro does not call election

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-venezuela-politics-austria-idUSKCN1
PS0CS


T


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Monday, February 4, 2019 10:43 AM

THG


Major EU nations rally behind Guaido as Venezuela leader

https://news.yahoo.com/spain-uk-recognise-guaido-venezuela-leader-0940
48994.html


T


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Monday, February 4, 2019 11:26 AM

THG


Quote:

Originally posted by THG:
Quote:

Originally posted by THG:

Russia should never interfere in any other nation's internal politics

POSTED BY: SIGNYM
UPDATED: Thursday, January 24, 2019 14:04
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 60
PAGE 1 of 1

Agreed...







T



Fading NRA Panics Over Exposed Ties To Russia


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Monday, February 4, 2019 11:03 PM

REAVERFAN


On December 11, 1981 in El Salvador, a Salvadoran military unit created and trained by the U.S. Army began slaughtering everyone they could find in a remote village called El Mozote. Before murdering the women and girls, the soldiers raped them repeatedly, including some as young as 10 years old, and joked that their favorites were the 12-year-olds. One witness described a soldier tossing a 3-year-old child into the air and impaling him with his bayonet. The final death toll was over 800 people.

The next day, December 12, was the first day on the job for Elliott Abrams as assistant secretary of state for human rights and humanitarian affairs in the Reagan administration. Abrams snapped into action, helping to lead a cover-up of the massacre. News reports of what had happened, Abrams told the Senate, were “not credible,” and the whole thing was being “significantly misused” as propaganda by anti-government guerillas.

This past Friday, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo named Abrams as America’s special envoy for Venezuela. According to Pompeo, Abrams “will have responsibility for all things related to our efforts to restore democracy” in the oil-rich nation.



Trump surrounds himself with scum. Turds of a feather stink together.

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Wednesday, February 6, 2019 10:32 AM

REAVERFAN



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Wednesday, February 6, 2019 11:54 AM

REAVERFAN


Democracy is when someone from a violent, far-right extremist group declares themselves to be president and promises to privatize the nation's assets to benefit a foreign power, and that declaration is enforced on a sovereign nation by the foreign power that will benefit from those assets, and the more harshly it's enforced, the democracy-er it is.


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Wednesday, February 6, 2019 1:40 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Originally posted by reaverfan:
Democracy is when someone from a violent, far-right extremist group declares themselves to be president and promises to privatize the nation's assets to benefit a foreign power, and that declaration is enforced on a sovereign nation by the foreign power that will benefit from those assets, and the more harshly it's enforced, the democracy-er it is.



Yep. I agree with the statement, recognizing that it is sarcasm. Also, it applies to Ukraine.

The "plan" for Venezuela is for Guaido to privatize the oil industry again, using money gained from the sale to pay off Chinese and Russian loans, and to go begging to the IMF for money. The IMF will, of course, impose "austerity" on Venezuela in order to get that money back. (Can you imagine what the USA would be like if we were held to the same program?)

The general consensus on alt-media is that the longer Maduro stays in power, the less likely a coup will occur. That depends on where the military and police side.

Guaido has approached China for recognition, since China has loaned Venezuela a gazzilion yuan. The silence on that result has been deafening. I suspect that China will "talk" to Guaido, but in terms of "doing" anything, the Chinese wouldn't piss on Guaido if he were on fire. Not because the Chinese are so moral, but because they want those loans to be made good on the terms that they negotiated with Maduro, not on some renegotiated IMF bullshit with Guaido. China doesn't want to be paid off in USA-funny-money, they want those ports and other hard assets, damnit!


Italy has not yet recognized Guaido because there is a division of opinion within their coalition (in this case I'm with the Five-Star side of the coalition), which will prevent the EU from recognizing Guaido until that happens.

The Russians have oil deals with Venezuela, and I believe they would be ready to defend Venezuela militarily if foreign powers were to intervene militarily.

Of course, the USA will continue its economic and hybrid warfare against Venezuela, seizing its assets (like their refineries in the USA) and preventing the Venezuelan government from getting income from its oil operations, and the Brits will continue to hold Venezuelan gold and refuse to turn it over. So Maduro really needs to get his shit together because the full economic/NGO/propaganda weight of a regime-change operation is upon him.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

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Thursday, February 7, 2019 11:14 AM

REAVERFAN


Venezuela’s collapse is a window into how the Oil Age will unravel
https://medium.com/insurge-intelligence/venezuelas-collapse-is-a-windo
w-into-how-the-oil-age-will-unravel-f80aadff7786


For some, the crisis in Venezuela is all about the endemic corruption of Nicolás Maduro, continuing the broken legacy of Chavez’s ideological experiment in socialism under the mounting insidious influence of Putin. For others, it’s all about the ongoing counter-democratic meddling of the United States, which has for years wanted to bring Venezuela — with its huge oil reserves — back into the orbit of American power, and is now interfering again to undermine a democratically elected leader in Latin America.

Neither side truly understands the real driving force behind the collapse of Venezuela: we have moved into the twilight of the Age of Oil.

So how does a country like Venezuela with the largest reserves of crude oil in the world end up incapable of developing them? While various elements of socialism, corruption and neoliberal capitalism are all implicated in various ways, what no one’s talking about — especially the global oil industry — is that over the last decade, we’ve shifted into a new era. The world has moved from largely extracting cheap, easy crude, to becoming increasingly dependent on unconventional forms of oil and gas that are much more difficult and expensive to produce.

Oil isn’t running out, in fact, it’s everywhere?—?we’ve more than enough to fry the planet. But as the easy, cheap stuff has plateaued, production costs have soared. And as a consequence the most expensive oil to produce has become increasingly unprofitable.

In a country like Venezuela, emerging from a history of US interference, plagued by internal economic mismanagement, combined with external intensifying pressure from US sanctions, this decline in profitability became fatal.

Since Hugo Chavez’s election in 1999, the US has continued to explore numerous ways to interfere in and undermine his socialist government. This is consistent with the track record of US overt and covert interventionism across Latin America, which has sought to overthrow democratically elected governments which undermine US interests in the region, supported right-wing autocratic regimes, and funded, trained and armed far-right death squads complicit in wantonly massacring hundreds of thousands of people.

For all the triumphant moralising in parts of the Western media about the failures of Venezuela’s socialist experiment, there has been little reflection on the role of this horrific counter-democratic US foreign policy in paving the way for a populist hunger for nationalist and independent alternatives to US-backed cronyism.


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Monday, February 11, 2019 12:17 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Here is an interesting prediction from The Duran. They predict China and Russia may cut Maduro loose because he's been such an ineffectual leader.

I happen to agree that Maduro is a basket case. The error started with Hugo Chavez. After he nationalized the oil industry he needed to provide some tough love for the nation along with help for the poor. He would have been able to get away with is because he had the military's support (being an ex-paratrooper himself) and proved his chops by doing a stint in jail for the revolution. I suspect- but don't know for sure - that Maduro bought the military's loyalty by allowing them to pilfer the economy.

A leader REALLY can't imagine trying to vault La Revolucion in the USA's backyard while being stupid and gelatinous. If you REALLY think that you're going to sit on the world's largest oil reserves and declare your independence and trade in something other than the petrodollar, you'd better be prepared to gird your nation for tough times ahead.





--------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

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Saturday, February 16, 2019 8:19 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

IMF Discreetly Preps Massive Aid Package For "Day After" Maduro's Fall

The International Monetary Fund is reportedly making plans for the "day after" embattled President Nicolas Maduro's fall, according to Bloomberg. Though there's been little momentum in military defections following US-backed opposition leader Juan Guaido's offer of amnesty to any army officer that switches loyalties, Washington sanctions have effectively strangled state-owned PDVSA's access to global markets. News of IMF maneuvering also comes amidst fresh reports the US is amassing aircraft, troops and armored vehicles on the Venezuelan border under the pretext of getting humanitarian aid into the country.

The only significant cash flow that remains after the oil sanctions is through India, Venezuela’s second-biggest oil market after the United States, which still recognizes the Maduro government, and is now reportedly seeking to avoid purchases through US banks and even financial institutions with a heavy US presence. According to a Reuters report on Friday, "India has asked one buyer of Venezuelan oil to consider paying the South American nation’s national oil company PDVSA in a way that avoids the U.S. financial system, an Indian government source said, after Washington imposed fresh sanctions on Venezuela last month."

If oil buyers pay PDVSA through American institutions, US authorities can seize the funds. But the IMF reportedly sees cash dwindling from oil sales at such a rapid pace that Maduro can't possibly hold on, even with the staying power of his loyal armed forces. This also comes as the White House mulls a possible next step of blocking foreign entities all together from dealing with the PDVSA.

Citing an anonymous official due to the sensitivity of the matter, Bloomberg reports the IMF is planning for a near-term Maduro exit by discreetly preparing a massive financial aid package to rescue the nosediving economy, for years choked by US-led sanctions and corrupt socialist leadership, following transition of power.

Forbes also forewarned earlier this month what a new Caracas government would be facing, by comparison to other regional economies in crisis:

It is unclear just how much aid Venezuela needs or will be able to get. To put things into perspective for a moment, Argentina has a $56 billion aid package from the IMF and while their economy was leveled due to the closed-door, quasi-socialist policies of Cristina Kirchner, Argentina’s social unrest is nothing like what is taking place in Venezuela today.

Last year Colombia reportedly contacted international lending agencies about crafting a $60 billion aid package. Given the massive investment needs of the Venezuelan economy, access to international financing will be essential to lift the country of its version of the Great Depression.

And this will come, Forbes noted, via the IMF and World Bank, which "will require massive structural reforms, including a return of foreign investment and foreign companies into the Venezuelan oil market."

This followed after Bloomberg reported in November of last year that Venezuela hadn’t reported GDP and inflation data since 2016, for which its central bank prepared a report sent to the IMF in accord with a Nov. 30 deadline while "hoping to avoid sanctions that included the loss of voting rights or a potential expulsion from the lender."

Bloomberg also noted at that time that the IMF was already eyeing drastic action: "Expulsion from the fund would cause Venezuela to lose access to what little remaining funds it has associated with the lender, but more importantly, it could trigger a cross-default on some sovereign bonds."

Again, it was noted last November:

While Venezuela often lambasted the IMF for its policy recommendations under former President Hugo Chavez and his successor Maduro, the central bank has repeatedly used special drawing rights held at the fund. Venezuela still has access to $52 million, which it has drawn down from $2.5 billion according to IMF data.

Thus with the international noose tightening around Maduro led by Washington and European countries which recognize only Guaido as "Interim President", and with internal unrest continuing, it appears the IMF too is now ready to run with the opportunity and cut off the regime's last desperate potential cash lifeline.


https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-02-15/imf-discreetly-prepping-mass
ive-aid-package-day-after-maduros-exit


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

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Monday, February 25, 2019 3:35 PM

REAVERFAN


Remember when Elliott Abrams & the CIA used planes with false Red Cross markings to illegally send arms to the contra paramilitary death squads in Nicaragua in the ‘80s?

Quote Tweet
IFRC Intl. Federation #RedCross #RedCrescent
@Federation
We’ve learned that there are some people not affiliated w/ @cruzrojacol & @CruzRojaVe wearing Red Cross emblems at Colombia-#Venezuela & Brazil-Ven border.
We urge them to stop doing this. They might mean well but they risk jeopardizing our neutrality, impartiality & independence

https://mobile.twitter.com/venanalysis/status/1099800119032102912

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Monday, February 25, 2019 3:56 PM

THG


T


Elliot, Shit I thought his name was walter





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Sunday, March 10, 2019 12:52 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Somewhere hubby found a video that detailed the sanctions that the USA was putting on Venezuela and twisting the arms of its alllies to follow suit; one example was how euroclear blocked the sale of billions of dollars of pharmaceuticals that Venezuela had already paid for. It becomes clear why Venezuela is in such shit shape. OTOH it also makes clear why Venezuela should have focused on becoming self-sufficient in the essentials. When I find that video I'll post it.

In the meantime ... very early in this thread a posted a history of the opposition in Venezuela and ran out of time to follow up, but ONE of the questions that occurred to me as I was researching and posting their history is ... where was Guaido in all of this???

His name never comes up in the decade+ of opposition to "Chavismo"; he seems to have been plucked out of near-obscurity (like "our guy Yats" and Poroshenko "The Chocolate King") by our deep state neocons to lead the "regime change" effort in Venezuela. The OTHER thing that seems to come up is that the opposition itself seems to be led by several figures who are pretty intent on maintaining their own individual power bases; cooperation not a big thing amongst the opposition there. I imagined them thinking Who are YOU? when Guaido declared himself President; and Guaido has not caught fire amongst "the people" either.
One of the commentators that I listen to called Guaido "Mr Nobody", or something like that, which I think as very apropos.

So the "shock and awe" operation seems to have stalled out; expect a lot of false flags (like the so-called burning of the aid trucks), covert action, economic warfare, and fake news* on the topic of Venezuela. Figuring out the real situation will be very difficult.

*After all of the news about mobs of Venezuelans killing farm animals by hand because they're starving (altho I have to say the young men in those videos looked pretty well-fed to me!) NPR ran segment about the poor people of Caracas. It seems that their major complaint (according to NPR) was that Venezuelans could no longer make their traditional breakfast out of 100% cornmeal, but had to mix in wheat flour, rice flour, or even (horrors) yucca root .. and what does this do to their food traditions???

If that's the biggest complaint that they have ....?

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

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Sunday, March 10, 2019 2:48 PM

THG


Cites comrade, I see no cites.

T



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Sunday, March 10, 2019 3:00 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Cites for what? My very first post details the several opposition figures and their on-again off-again cooperation with each other and participation in/boycotting of the electoral process. Guaido is mentioned in NONE of these links. That, I think, is the main reason why support for Guaido isn't in the news much anymore: He made little headway with the rest of the opposition or with the Venezuelan people.

Aside from the opinion expressed about him ("Mr Nobody") and the sudden lack of press coverage, what else would you like to have? Links to NPR? YouTube?

As I posted, when I find that video of the details of our sanctions against Venezuela, I'll be sure to post it.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

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