REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Has Any American Killed More Americans Than Donald Trump?

POSTED BY: REAVERFAN
UPDATED: Friday, September 18, 2020 16:51
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VIEWED: 477
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Friday, September 11, 2020 2:57 PM

REAVERFAN


So Donald Trump copped to it. He told Bob Woodward that he knew how deadly the virus was—and downplayed it anyway, encouraging MAGA nation to act as if COVID-19 was a cheap Chinese knockoff of the flu.

“It’s remarkable that in these interviews, the president of the United States confessed to fucking manslaughter,” Molly Jong-Fast says on the latest episode of The New Abnormal.

The lawyers might debate whether Trump has any criminal culpability. But to Rick Wilson, there’s no question about Trump’s moral responsibility.

“No American has killed more of their fellow Americans in this country than Donald Trump, except for Robert E. Lee and Jefferson fucking Davis,” he says. “No one has a body count to rival Trump’s. He knew it. He knew it was there. He did it. He let it happen. It is the most unbelievable and horrifying outcome that we can imagine.”

Molly adds, “Mike Pence was at a pro-life event the other day. And I was thinking about the irony, right? This administration has killed 100,000 plus plus plus people. And they’re talking about embryos. Like, it’s almost beyond parody.”

https://www.thedailybeast.com/has-any-american-killed-more-americans-t
han-donald-trump?ref=home



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Friday, September 11, 2020 3:28 PM

REAVERFAN


The other plague Trump has downplayed: white supremacist violence
While the president claims ‘radical leftists’ are terrorizing America, DHS says white extremists pose the nation’s most ‘persistent and lethal’ threat.
https://www.bostonglobe.com/2020/09/10/opinion/other-plague-trump-has-
downplayed-white-supremacist-violence
/

Not Al-Qaeda. Not Isis. Not MS-13. Not Antifa.

According to an unpublished Department of Homeland Security draft report, white supremacists are the nation’s most “persistent and lethal” terror threat. Or, as President Trump prefers to call them, his “base.”

COVID-19 isn’t the only deadly plague the president has downplayed, to devastating effect, during his White House tenure. Since Trump declared his candidacy more than five years ago, hate crimes, ranging from vandalism to murder, have surged, hitting a 16-year high in 2018, according to the FBI. That includes an unchecked rise of white supremacist terrorism that has not only proliferated with Trump in office, but has been emboldened by his refusal to condemn it.

This is how averse Trump is to the idea of white supremacy as a malevolent force: In a whistleblower complaint recently released by the House Intelligence Committee, Brian Murphy, who once led DHS’s intelligence branch, said he was pressured by Ken Cuccinelli, the agency’s deputy secretary, to make the threat of white supremacy “appear less severe." Murphy said he was ordered to push a narrative about “left-wing” and “anarchist” groups to better echo Trump’s white fear-churning public comments.


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Friday, September 11, 2020 4:00 PM

REAVERFAN



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Friday, September 11, 2020 6:52 PM

REAVERFAN



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Friday, September 11, 2020 8:53 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


lol

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Saturday, September 12, 2020 2:16 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Trump mishandled the pandemic response, OTOH there wasn't a lot of practical help he could offer. He couldn't make PPEs (masks) and ventilators magically appear, and the one drug that was showing promise as a preventative (HCQ) was the target of a campaign by big pharma and liberaloids to descredit it.

That, and mismanagement by many state governors didn't help.

So, closing the borders was a good first move. I'm not sure if Trump actually has the authority order a nationwide lockdown, but maybe he could have temporarily stopped interstate travel. And it would have been far better to get behind masking early on, but you have to realize that even WHO and CDC were saying "masks don't work" , so he was just following the advice of the technical experts. Plus the CDC bolloxed the rollout of their testing program, delaying it by a month.

Given the sorry state of our medical insurance and healthcare system, and the shabby state of our economy (which forces people to work, sick or well), the fact that we don't even make masks and hand sanitizers here in the USA anymore leading to a broken supply chain, the bolloxed testing program, plus the HUGE mismanagement of "assisted living" facilities .... sending "recovering" Covid patients to old folks homes, where they could infect thousands of vulnerable people... REALLY, governor Cuomo? .... the USA response was ineffective. There were just too many innstitutionalied problems, decades in the making, to overcome.

In the best of all circumstances, Trump might have been able to prevent about half of the deaths by cheerleading individual and state response.

But if he had implemented an onerous lockdown (again, assuming he had the power to do so) the TDSers would have been complaining about Trump's rush towards "fascism".

And don't tell me that you wouldn't be, because I know you would.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

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Saturday, September 12, 2020 2:22 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Originally posted by reaverfan:



BTW, even JOHN BOLTON, fired by Trump and certainly no fan, said that TRUMP NEVER CALLED DEAD VETERANS "LOSERS". Bolton was there, and he knows what Trump did and didn't say. Unlike you, and unlike the "anonymous sources" for The Atlantic who don't mind making shit up.

Please stop repeating "anonymous" lies.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

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Saturday, September 12, 2020 9:55 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Xi was responsible for all of the deaths that happened due to COVID worldwide.

Maybe if everybody wakes up and stops sucking Chinese dick, we can call it the act of war that it was against the entire world.


But that's not going to happen because in 2020 we can't even call a riot a riot.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Saturday, September 12, 2020 12:45 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Americans killed Americans?

McNamara, FDR, Jefferson Davis, Woodrow Wilson, LBJ. But they are all Democraps, so bots don't know about them.

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Saturday, September 12, 2020 12:52 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Trump mishandled the pandemic response, OTOH there wasn't a lot of practical help he could offer. He couldn't make PPEs (masks)

After Bama/Obiden deleted the entire FEMA stockpile, and then refused to allow them to be replentished.
Quote:

and ventilators magically appear,
After Cuomo and DeBlasio sold off all of the Ventilators that the Feds had given them, to pad their retirement accounts.
Quote:

and the one drug that was showing promise as a preventative (HCQ) was the target of a campaign by big pharma and liberaloids to descredit it.
After Trump mentioned it in a presser, all of the TDSers, Libtards known as MSM/Fakje News, Democraps, Socialist, Progressives constantly railed against it - hoping folk would just die off.
Quote:



That, and mismanagement by many state governors didn't help.

Translation: Democrap Governors.
Quote:


So, closing the borders was a good first move. I'm not sure if Trump actually has the authority order a nationwide lockdown, but maybe he could have temporarily stopped interstate travel. And it would have been far better to get behind masking early on, but you have to realize that even WHO and CDC were saying "masks don't work" , so he was just following the advice of the technical experts. Plus the CDC bolloxed the rollout of their testing program, delaying it by a month.

Given the sorry state of our medical insurance and healthcare system, and the shabby state of our economy (which forces people to work, sick or well), the fact that we don't even make masks and hand sanitizers here in the USA anymore leading to a broken supply chain, the bolloxed testing program, plus the HUGE mismanagement of "assisted living" facilities .... sending "recovering" Covid patients to old folks homes, where they could infect thousands of vulnerable people... REALLY, governor Cuomo?

Don't forget Wittmer in MI doing the same.
Quote:

.... the USA response was ineffective. There were just too many innstitutionalied problems, decades in the making, to overcome.

In the best of all circumstances, Trump might have been able to prevent about half of the deaths by cheerleading individual and state response.

But if he had implemented an onerous lockdown (again, assuming he had the power to do so) the TDSers would have been complaining about Trump's rush towards "fascism".

And don't tell me that you wouldn't be, because I know you would.


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Saturday, September 12, 2020 1:16 PM

REAVERFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Americans killed Americans?

McNamara, FDR, Jefferson Davis, Woodrow Wilson, LBJ. But they are all Democraps, so bots don't know about them.

Whataboutism is not a valid argument.

It's a common Russian troll tactic, though. Suits you perfectly.

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Saturday, September 12, 2020 1:39 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by reaverfan:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Americans killed Americans?

McNamara, FDR, Jefferson Davis, Woodrow Wilson, LBJ. But they are all Democraps, so bots don't know about them.

Whataboutism is not a valid argument.

It's a common Russian troll tactic, though. Suits you perfectly.




You are the fucking Commie on the board.

Your lack of self awareness is hilarious.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Saturday, September 12, 2020 1:39 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by reaverfan:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Americans killed Americans?

McNamara, FDR, Jefferson Davis, Woodrow Wilson, LBJ. But they are all Democraps, so bots don't know about them.

Whataboutism is not a valid argument.

It's a common Russian troll tactic, though. Suits you perfectly.




You are the fucking Commie on the board.

Your lack of self awareness is hilarious.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Tuesday, September 15, 2020 2:38 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Regarding the Q in the title, what was the name of that guy who saw everybody evacuating from the WTC South Tower under the Evacuation Alarm, and ordered everybody back to work, back to their offices, so they could all be killed when it collapsed? That guy was a winner, and all the folk who abided his ludicrous demands proved what sheeple they were.

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Tuesday, September 15, 2020 3:27 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Americans killed Americans?

McNamara, FDR, Jefferson Davis, Woodrow Wilson, LBJ. But they are all Democraps, so bots don't know about them.

REAVERBOT: Whataboutism is not a valid argument.)

Dood, THE TITLE OF THE THREAD ITSELF IS ASKING FOR A COMPARISON I.E. "WHATABOUTISM".

Is thinking not your native skill??

And BTW at this point you seem to have detected FIVE "Russian trolls" on this board! That's a lot of Russian trolls for one insignificant website!

You and "Russians" are like TWITCHY and "fascists" ... you see them everywhere, especially when they're not there!

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

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Tuesday, September 15, 2020 3:31 PM

REAVERFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
Quote:

JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Americans killed Americans?

McNamara, FDR, Jefferson Davis, Woodrow Wilson, LBJ. But they are all Democraps, so bots don't know about them.

REAVERBOT: Whataboutism is not a valid argument.)

Dood, THE TITLE OF THE THREAD ITSELF IS ASKING FOR A COMPARISON I.E. "WHATABOUTISM".

Is thinking not your native skill??

And BTW at this point you seem to have detected FIVE "Russian trolls" on this board! That's a lot of Russian trolls for one insignificant website!

You and "Russians" are like TWITCHY and "fascists" ... you see them everywhere, especially when they're not there!

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

Trump is indeed responsible for more deaths than anybody. His incompetence is overwhelming, his treason worthy of the death penalty.

I remain, as always, the one who adheres to facts and reliable data, not a lying Russian troll like you, who relies on deflection and misinformation to make your false points.

Hey, I'm always right. That's just how it is.

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Tuesday, September 15, 2020 3:54 PM

THG


The trolls will distract with all manner of shit that falls into a different category like war. Americas are dying today due to incompetence. That's a big fucking difference. And the trolls won't post that more Americans have died so far from the virus, then in many of our most recent wars combined. Since the Revolutionary War ended, 646,596 American troops have died in battle. 500,000 died in the civil war. That means 146,596 have died in combat since.

We're well past that number now. By the end of December we are expected to have 400,000 dead; then what?

shoo trolls

T


Stupid people don't know they're stupid, and they certainly don't realize how obvious it is to others.

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Tuesday, September 15, 2020 4:05 PM

REAVERFAN



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Tuesday, September 15, 2020 6:50 PM

REAVERFAN



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Tuesday, September 15, 2020 7:24 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Covid-19 death-toll by Jan 1, 2021

www.healthdata.org/news-release/first-covid-19-global-forecast-ihme-pr
ojects-three-quarters-million-lives-could-be


United States of America:

Most likely scenario
410,451 (range of 347,551 – 515,272)

Worse-case scenario
620,029 (range of 463,361 – 874,649)

Best-case scenario
288,381 (range of 257,286 – 327,775)

The Institute modeled three scenarios:

A “most likely” scenario that assumes individual mask use and other mitigation measures remain unchanged.

A “worse case” in which mask usage stays at current rates and governments continue relaxing social distancing requirements.

A “best case” if mask usage is near-universal and governments impose social distancing requirements when their daily death rate exceeds 8 per million.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Tuesday, September 15, 2020 8:58 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Trump mishandled the pandemic response, OTOH there wasn't a lot of practical help he could offer. He couldn't make PPEs (masks) and ventilators magically appear

There is the defense production act, which Trump invoked for ventilators but not for masks and other ppe, or testing. And he could have used the federal government's clout to purchase supplies nationally to be distributed for states to use, instead of states having to bid against each other.
Quote:

and the one drug that was showing promise as a preventative (HCQ) was the target of a campaign by big pharma and liberaloids to discredit it.
It also showed a lot of fatal side effects, which can't be ignored if you're going to use a drug on millions of people. It needed and still needs to be tested thoroughly.
Quote:

That, and mismanagement by many state governors didn't help.
Like having to bid against each other for ventilators and ppe?
Quote:

So, closing the borders was a good first move. I'm not sure if Trump actually has the authority order a nationwide lockdown, but maybe he could have temporarily stopped interstate travel.
And have led by example.
Quote:

And it would have been far better to get behind masking early on, but you have to realize that even WHO and CDC were saying "masks don't work", so he was just following the advice of the technical experts.
Trump NEVER got behind masking. The CDC was a month late but they changed their tune reasonably quickly. What's Trump's excuse?
Quote:

Plus the CDC bollixed the rollout of their testing program, delaying it by a month.
The WH should have been bird-dogging this, and asking about alternatives (like the already available WHO test).
Quote:

Given the sorry state of our medical insurance and healthcare system, and the shabby state of our economy (which forces people to work, sick or well)
Yep. There were a lot of problems. The poor economy with no-benefits jobs making people needing to work sick or not ... the horrible state of our health care so-called system, I'll give you that. I'll even add the horrible chronic underpayment of people who really ARE essential, the burden of at risk people, the fractured, siloed nature of medicine including testing capacity ... and I'm sure I missed a lot.
Quote:

the fact that we don't even make masks and hand sanitizers here in the USA anymore leading to a broken supply chain
Yes, we do.
Quote:

the bollixed testing program, plus the HUGE mismanagement of "assisted living" facilities .... sending "recovering" Covid patients to old folks homes, where they could infect thousands of vulnerable people... REALLY, governor Cuomo? ....
The vast, VAST majority of infections in care homes came from before, not after. Studies have shown it wasn't what you assume it was.
Quote:

the USA response was ineffective. There were just too many institutionalized problems, decades in the making, to overcome.
There were a LOT of baked-in problems!
Quote:

In the best of all circumstances, Trump might have been able to prevent about half of the deaths by cheerleading individual and state response.
I don't think anyone thought US deaths were going to be zero, no matter what. Not preventing 100,000 deaths - that's a significant failure.
Quote:

But if he had implemented an onerous lockdown (again, assuming he had the power to do so) the TDSers would have been complaining about Trump's rush towards "fascism".
And don't tell me that you wouldn't be, because I know you would.

I'm sure they would have.
Quote:



-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

But there was a lot Trump failed to do short of a national lockdown, which made things far worse than they should have been.

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Tuesday, September 15, 2020 9:22 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


“The Final Push” shows Trump on a golf cart pushed by Fox News hosts Sean Hannity and Laura Ingraham, and a cameraman alongside while the cart crashes through a cemetery. Inscribed on the tombstones is a quote from Trump about the pandemic, “It is what it is.” Another one says “In tragic memory of ‘LOSER.'”
https://untappedcities.com/2020/09/10/gold-statue-donald-trump-golf-ca
rt
/


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Tuesday, September 15, 2020 10:13 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by reaverfan:



You brainwashed fags don't get to use They Live.

I told Cap'n Cuckklefuck that years ago.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Tuesday, September 15, 2020 10:14 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by THG:
The trolls will distract with all manner of shit that falls into a different category like war. Americas are dying today due to incompetence. That's a big fucking difference. And the trolls won't post that more Americans have died so far from the virus, then in many of our most recent wars combined. Since the Revolutionary War ended, 646,596 American troops have died in battle. 500,000 died in the civil war. That means 146,596 have died in combat since.

We're well past that number now. By the end of December we are expected to have 400,000 dead; then what?

shoo trolls

T


Stupid people don't know they're stupid, and they certainly don't realize how obvious it is to others.




You're lying media was telling everybody there was going to be over 2 Million Covid deaths by the end of the year.

HUGE win for Trump. He saved 1.6 Million lives.



Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Tuesday, September 15, 2020 11:08 PM

REAVERFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by THG:
The trolls will distract with all manner of shit that falls into a different category like war. Americas are dying today due to incompetence. That's a big fucking difference. And the trolls won't post that more Americans have died so far from the virus, then in many of our most recent wars combined. Since the Revolutionary War ended, 646,596 American troops have died in battle. 500,000 died in the civil war. That means 146,596 have died in combat since.

We're well past that number now. By the end of December we are expected to have 400,000 dead; then what?

shoo trolls

T


Stupid people don't know they're stupid, and they certainly don't realize how obvious it is to others.




You're lying media was telling everybody there was going to be over 2 Million Covid deaths by the end of the year.

HUGE win for Trump. He saved 1.6 Million lives.



Do Right, Be Right. :)

Stupid people don't know they're stupid, and they certainly don't realize how obvious it is to others.

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Tuesday, September 15, 2020 11:09 PM

REAVERFAN



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Tuesday, September 15, 2020 11:27 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

You're lying media was telling everybody there was going to be over 2 Million Covid deaths by the end of the year.

HUGE win for Trump. He saved 1.6 Million lives.



Do Right, Be Right. :)

When Trump first told that fake story, he had saved 2 million lives in his estimation. Read the story about the Imperial College of Medicine's worst case scenario, the one where everything imaginable goes wrong in the worst possible way and everyone does literally nothing to avoid danger:

https://www.cato.org/blog/how-one-model-simulated-22-million-us-deaths
-covid-19


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Wednesday, September 16, 2020 12:08 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

You're lying media was telling everybody there was going to be over 2 Million Covid deaths by the end of the year.

HUGE win for Trump. He saved 1.6 Million lives.



Do Right, Be Right. :)

When Trump first told that fake story, he had saved 2 million lives in his estimation. Read the story about the Imperial College of Medicine's worst case scenario, the one where everything imaginable goes wrong in the worst possible way and everyone does literally nothing to avoid danger:

https://www.cato.org/blog/how-one-model-simulated-22-million-us-deaths
-covid-19


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly




No. Not Trump.

YOU DUMB FUCKS WERE SAYING THAT.

I know you don't remember what they told you to regurgitate yesterday, so you're not going to remember this either.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Wednesday, September 16, 2020 2:36 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


so, been busy today and not much time to catch up. Who is Ben Wexler, and why is he such an idiot?

There is not a single instance of Trump "gassing his own people" so Wexler's a fucking liar.

And REAVERBOT relaying lies? Why am I not surprised?

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

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Wednesday, September 16, 2020 2:38 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:


No. Not Trump.

YOU DUMB FUCKS WERE SAYING THAT.

I know you don't remember what they told you to regurgitate yesterday, so you're not going to remember this either.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

And by tomorrow they'll have forgotten what they said today. But the spittle will still be there.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

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Wednesday, September 16, 2020 3:47 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.



Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Trump mishandled the pandemic response, OTOH there wasn't a lot of practical help he could offer. He couldn't make PPEs (masks) and ventilators magically appear

KIKI: There is the defense production act, which Trump invoked for ventilators but not for masks and other ppe, or testing. And he could have used the federal government's clout to purchase supplies nationally to be distributed for states to use, instead of states having to bid against each other.

You can say "let there be light!" but light doesn't necessarily appear, and neither do masks and ventilators.
AFAIK, there was very little ACTUAL PRODUCTION of these items in the USA, and it takes time to tool up a factory for production. Just look at how long it took the paper mills to switch over to household toilet paper instead of institutional.

3M, for example. Everyone wants their N95s, and they are an American company, but their ACTUAL PRODUCTION is mostly in China. And their production is contracted ... already spoken for. Given that the ACTUAL PRODUCTION is thousands of miles away and under another government, it would be impossible to commandeer the masks.

Quote:

There are several reasons for the shortage. Before the coronavirus emerged, China produced about half of the world’s masks
So, if China made half of the masks. and you divvy up the rest of production across the rest of the world. what does that USA account for? 10%?

Quote:

although some of the factories were American brands like 3M that produced for the local [Chinese] market. The prolonged outbreak in China reduced the supply, and during the outbreak production expanded by nearly 12-fold (to 115 million per month). The global inventory of masks was also diminished by the wildfires in California and Australia, which used up many of the supplies held by humanitarian organizations. So why can’t the masks be distributed?

Evidence suggests that China is “hoarding” the mask supply, and is not exporting masks. China has claimed mask factory output for itself, and during the outbreak, they also purchased most of the global inventory of masks from other countries.


https://scm.ncsu.edu/scm-articles/article/where-are-all-the-n95-masks-
a-supply-chain-dilemma


Quote:

... SIGNY and the one drug that was showing promise as a preventative (HCQ) was the target of a campaign by big pharma and liberaloids to discredit it.

KIKI: It also showed a lot of fatal side effects, which can't be ignored if you're going to use a drug on millions of people. It needed and still needs to be tested thoroughly.


HCQ has been in routine use FOR DECADES to prevent and treat malaria. Even our Canadian friend took it for the years that he was in Africa. It would probably be safe to say that hundreds of millions of doses have been distributed by now, and NOBODY has noted such terrible, fatal side effects until, SUDDENLY, now. Now, one might say that giving HCQ to late stage Covid patients in high to toxic-levels (like Britain did) is a different story, but NOBODY (except some medical establishment) was suggesting it as a late-stage treatment. It was ALWAYS being promoted as a prophylactic by those who were advocating its use. YOU pulled up a compilation of HCQ tests which showed positive results as a pre- and post-exposure prophylactic. I know we discussed this already but you seem to keep forgetting that point. THIS IS ONLY ONE OF THOSE STUDIES

Quote:

*****
Low-dose hydroxychloroquine therapy and mortality in hospitalised patients with COVID-19: a nationwide observational study of 8075 participants

ABSTRACT

Hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) has been largely used and investigated as therapy for COVID-19 across various settings at a total dose usually ranging from 2400 mg to 9600 mg. In Belgium, off-label use of low-dose HCQ (total 2400 mg over 5 days) was recommended for hospitalised patients with COVID-19. We conducted a retrospective analysis of in-hospital mortality in the Belgian national COVID-19 hospital surveillance data. Patients treated either with HCQ monotherapy and supportive care (HCQ group) were compared with patients treated with supportive care only (no-HCQ group) using a competing risks proportional hazards regression with discharge alive as competing risk, adjusted for demographic and clinical features with robust standard errors. Of 8075 patients with complete discharge data on 24 May 2020 and diagnosed before 1 May 2020, 4542 received HCQ in monotherapy and 3533 were in the no-HCQ group. Death was reported in 804/4542 (17.7%) and 957/3533 (27.1%), respectively.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0924857920303423

*****

SIGNY: That, and mismanagement by many state governors didn't help.

KIKI: Like having to bid against each other for ventilators and ppe?

No, like state governors not implementing lockdowns quickly enough, or not having a "plan B" besides spreading their legs and crossing their fingers.

AFA ventilators and PPE. there simply weren't enough to go around. Now. I'm not in favor of using "market forces" to distribute scarce items because that only ensures that they go to the entities with the most money. But no matter HOW it was distributed, there was never going to be enough.

Quote:

SIGNY: So, closing the borders was a good first move. I'm not sure if Trump actually has the authority order a nationwide lockdown, but maybe he could have temporarily stopped interstate travel.

KIKI: And have led by example.

Such as? Wear a mask when even the WHO and CDC were saying "masks don't work"?

Quote:

SIGNY: And it would have been far better to get behind masking early on, but you have to realize that even WHO and CDC were saying "masks don't work", so he was just following the advice of the technical experts.

KIKI: Trump NEVER got behind masking. The CDC was a month late but they changed their tune reasonably quickly. What's Trump's excuse?

Actually, he changed his tune, sort of. He DID say he would wear a mask if he thought it was necessary. But, you're right: He could have been a lot more forceful.

There are studies that show that masking only reduces the infection and death rates by 1-2% (ConsumerLab). I don't know what that figure is so low. Possibly because masking isn't universal, possibly because the masks that people are STILL forced to use are substandard.

Quote:

SIGNY: Plus the CDC bollixed the rollout of their testing program, delaying it by a month.

KIKI: The WH should have been bird-dogging this, and asking about alternatives (like the already available WHO test).

How do you know they weren't?

Quote:

SIGNY: Given the sorry state of our medical insurance and healthcare system, and the shabby state of our economy (which forces people to work, sick or well)

KIKI: Yep. There were a lot of problems. The poor economy with no-benefits jobs making people needing to work sick or not ... the horrible state of our health care so-called system, I'll give you that. I'll even add the horrible chronic underpayment of people who really ARE essential, the burden of at risk people, the fractured, siloed nature of medicine including testing capacity ... and I'm sure I missed a lot.

SIGNY...the fact that we don't even make masks and hand sanitizers here in the USA anymore leading to a broken supply chain

KIKI: Yes, we do.

No, we don't. I already pointed out the fact that most of the ACTUAL MASK PRODUCTION is in China, and the USA only makes a small fraction of the total world inventory. AFA hand sanitizer ... yes, we make the ethanol. But CHINA is the source of those "gelling" compounds which allow the ethanol to sit on your hand long enough to do some good. Nobody wants to make chemicals anymore; the industry is dirty and smelly and it pollutes a lot and is sometimes hazardous, so they let China do it.

Quote:

SIGNY: the bollixed testing program, plus the HUGE mismanagement of "assisted living" facilities .... sending "recovering" Covid patients to old folks homes, where they could infect thousands of vulnerable people... REALLY, governor Cuomo? ....

KIKI: The vast, VAST majority of infections in care homes came from before, not after. Studies have shown it wasn't what you assume it was.

Ok, I'll give you that because I don;t know for sure. LINK PLEASE

Quote:

SIGNY: the USA response was ineffective. There were just too many institutionalized problems, decades in the making, to overcome.

KIKI: There were a LOT of baked-in problems!

SIGNY: In the best of all circumstances, Trump might have been able to prevent about half of the deaths by cheerleading individual and state response.

KIKI: I don't think anyone thought US deaths were going to be zero

The same people who were predicting 2-3 million dead are now blaming Trump for not making it zero. I see that here and on Nextdoor. Yes, people ARE that unreasonable.
Quote:

KIKI no matter what. Not preventing 100,000 deaths - that's a significant failure.
IF 40% of deaths came from assisted living facilities, those were beyond the Federal government's reach. That lays at the feet of governors, county supervisors*, and mayors. Lockdowns I THINK are similarly at the state, county, and city level. Masks might reduce deaths by 1-2%. Based on the various studies that I've read, you might expect a 50% reduction in mortality due to HCQ. PPEs are STILL in short supply! By puttng his foot down and promoting HCQ, the Federal government might have saved half of the deaths over which it had control, which was about half of what occurred. But the biggest impact would have been HCQ, not masking or ventilators.
Quote:

SIGNY: But if he had implemented an onerous lockdown (again, assuming he had the power to do so) the TDSers would have been complaining about Trump's rush towards "fascism".
And don't tell me that you wouldn't be, because I know you would.

KIKI: I'm sure they would have.



They already are.

* Did anyone ever notice how weird county governance is compared to city, state, and federal government? No Legislature, for example.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

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Wednesday, September 16, 2020 6:21 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Signy: 3M makes - IN THE US - about 1.5Bs N95 a year (at least as of 5 years ago). That would be the low-end estimate of need during a pandemic.
Quote:

Ordinary N95 production in the US is estimated at 1.5 billion annually. A 2015 study by government public health researchers estimated that a flu pandemic similar to what is currently playing out would require 1.7 to 3.5 billion respirators, a figure that would increase to between 2.6 to 4.3 billion as more Americans become sick. Under a “maximum demand scenario” during which “all eligible health care and emergency response workers would use respirators from the beginning of the pandemic until its end,” 7.3 billion would be required. https://www.wired.com/story/defense-production-act-n95-masks-shortage-
covid-19
/

Given that the highest demand was in NYC, which was very INtensive but not EXtensive, there should have been enough internal production for the outbreak, until such time as 3M ramped up production. HOWEVER, 3M refused to stop EXPORTING masks.
The same is true for hand sanitizer. The US has more than adequate internal production capability to meet actual need.
https://reason.com/2020/04/02/the-fda-is-making-it-much-much-harder-fo
r-distilleries-to-produce-hand-sanitizer
/
As for the other ingredients, the only one you really need is glycerin, produced in the US.



It's really lame to state Trump 'could have been a lot more forceful' about wearing masks. He was actively anti-mask the whole time in speech, with only 1 exception that I know of, and completely against masks at all times in personal behavior. I'll repeat: the CDC changed its advice on masks in a month. What's Trump's excuse?



"HCQ has been in routine use FOR DECADES to prevent and treat malaria."
So first of all, the anti-malarial dose is literally the lowest dosing schedule for the drug: a loading dose of 400mg/day x 2 days followed by 400mg/WEEK. Not QD or BID but per week.

When it comes to the 'chloroquine' family of drugs dosing, I want to reiterate from a while ago that they were based on Chinese recommendations that seemed to have some success. Nobody was dosing patients with the intent of killing them to make the drugs fail. The dosing schedules were a loading dose of 400mg/x2, followed by 400mgQD. This is the 3rd dosing level of 4 in the prescribing information, there is one higher.

And I want to point out, as I did a while ago, that EVEN THE PRESCRIBING INFORMATION CAUTIONS AGAINST SIDE EFFECTS. The manufacturer itself doesn't look on HCQ (or related drugs) as harmless.

Finally, prescribing a drug to an individual with individual follow-up isn't the same as giving it to thousands or tens of thousands of people at a time. The US Army was aware of this, which is why they ran large-scale testing and found that 10% of all Black or Mediterranean-descent males have the G6PD deficiency that will cause HCQ (and related drugs) to hemolyze their red blood cells, causing medical complications, even death. And I imagine the Belgium study had a really low percentage of people with the G6PD deficiency.

You can't hand out HCQ like candy, just in case it works.

Honestly, I'm not going to readdress your HCQ mania. You think it's a slam-dunk miracle cure, I think the jury is still out on risk v benefit.



You fault governors for 'mismanagement'. Yeah, I believe some governors DID mismanage their response to the pandemic!
But you seem to think there was some 'plan B' waiting in the wings.
No plan existed then, and no plan exists now. There's still too much unknown about what's important and what isn't.
Sturgis: superspreader event, or not? BLM protests/(riots): superspreader events, or not? Schools reopening: superspreader events, or not?
Some data says yes, some data says no. There just isn't enough data to pin all you hopes on particular interventions. I think we're still in the stage of throwing everything at it we can manage, and hoping that some things individually or in combination, will work. And what I see in California anyway, is that they relax measures ... and watch the data. If things go in the wrong direction, they retrench, and try something else, or try the same thing differently.
They're still driving forward looking in the rearview mirror. That's the Plan B.



Testing ... sigh. I know the WH wasn't bird-dogging this because I read the news, in places like STAT and Medical News and Health News and Medical Technology News.



Nursing homes ... I posted the link about cases in NYS in the 'deadly new virus' thread - I'd have to dig it out. But indeed, the vast majority of cases came BEFORE convalescent placement, not after.

Oh, I just wanted to point out the '40% of deaths come from nursing homes' statistic and what it's based on. It's not like those elderly dudes and dudettes are going out to bars partying and bringing COVID in. I think if you have better overall control in the general population, you'll reduce your risk to those in nursing homes as well.

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Wednesday, September 16, 2020 8:28 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

You're lying media was telling everybody there was going to be over 2 Million Covid deaths by the end of the year.

HUGE win for Trump. He saved 1.6 Million lives.



Do Right, Be Right. :)

When Trump first told that fake story, he had saved 2 million lives in his estimation. Read the story about the Imperial College of Medicine's worst case scenario, the one where everything imaginable goes wrong in the worst possible way and everyone does literally nothing to avoid danger:

https://www.cato.org/blog/how-one-model-simulated-22-million-us-deaths
-covid-19


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly




No. Not Trump.

YOU DUMB FUCKS WERE SAYING THAT.

I know you don't remember what they told you to regurgitate yesterday, so you're not going to remember this either.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

A month later that 2.2 million estimate was still being used (without revealing the source) by President Trump and Doctors Fauci and Birx to imply that up to two million lives had been saved by state lockdowns and business closings and/or by federal travel bans.
https://www.cato.org/blog/did-mitigation-save-two-million-lives

6ix, I have far too much experience with Republicans in particular and Americans in general lying to me, and all the while they are insisting they are the truth-tellers. I am intolerant of either their dimwitted confusion about what is false or their deliberate misleading statements that always seem to favor themselves and do me harm if I believe them.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Wednesday, September 16, 2020 8:48 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Poll Finds U.S. Allies Overwhelmingly (and Accurately) View Trump Coronavirus Response As “Bad”

Turns out, it’s not just non-Trumpy Americans that are disappointed in how their country has responded to the coronavirus—the rest of the world is even more appalled. A new, 13-nation survey by the Pew Research Center out this week found that belief in the U.S. and its leadership—which nosedived after the election of Donald Trump—has essentially fallen off a cliff as Trump has overseen America’s cataclysmic response to the pandemic. Pew found that traditional American allies now held a lower opinion of the U.S. than at any point over the past two decades.

Canada, Sweden, the United Kingdom, Italy and Spain? These aren’t exactly modern day hotbeds of anti-American sentiment. Trump and his nihilist politics of selfishness have, of course, played a significant role in that erosion of support, but, even more practically, the rest of the world simply has a more accurate understanding of the disastrous U.S. coronavirus response in absolute and comparative terms.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/09/pew-poll-american-allies-v
iew-trump-coronavirus-response-bad.html


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Wednesday, September 16, 2020 10:49 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Poll Finds U.S. Allies Overwhelmingly (and Accurately) View Trump Coronavirus Response As “Bad”

Turns out, it’s not just non-Trumpy Americans that are disappointed in how their country has responded to the coronavirus—the rest of the world is even more appalled. A new, 13-nation survey by the Pew Research Center out this week found that belief in the U.S. and its leadership—which nosedived after the election of Donald Trump—has essentially fallen off a cliff as Trump has overseen America’s cataclysmic response to the pandemic. Pew found that traditional American allies now held a lower opinion of the U.S. than at any point over the past two decades.

Canada, Sweden, the United Kingdom, Italy and Spain? These aren’t exactly modern day hotbeds of anti-American sentiment. Trump and his nihilist politics of selfishness have, of course, played a significant role in that erosion of support, but, even more practically, the rest of the world simply has a more accurate understanding of the disastrous U.S. coronavirus response in absolute and comparative terms.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/09/pew-poll-american-allies-v
iew-trump-coronavirus-response-bad.html


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly





Here's the methodology. Have fun reading that:

https://www.pewresearch.org/methodology/international-survey-research/
international-methodology/all-survey/all-country/all-year



There is zero mention of how many people were surveyed. Could have been 5 hand picked people from each country.

Bullshit that a site like Slate is more than happy to shovel down the mouths of its braindead audience.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Wednesday, September 16, 2020 10:50 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

You're lying media was telling everybody there was going to be over 2 Million Covid deaths by the end of the year.

HUGE win for Trump. He saved 1.6 Million lives.



Do Right, Be Right. :)

When Trump first told that fake story, he had saved 2 million lives in his estimation. Read the story about the Imperial College of Medicine's worst case scenario, the one where everything imaginable goes wrong in the worst possible way and everyone does literally nothing to avoid danger:

https://www.cato.org/blog/how-one-model-simulated-22-million-us-deaths
-covid-19


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly




No. Not Trump.

YOU DUMB FUCKS WERE SAYING THAT.

I know you don't remember what they told you to regurgitate yesterday, so you're not going to remember this either.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

A month later that 2.2 million estimate was still being used (without revealing the source) by President Trump and Doctors Fauci and Birx to imply that up to two million lives had been saved by state lockdowns and business closings and/or by federal travel bans.
https://www.cato.org/blog/did-mitigation-save-two-million-lives

6ix, I have far too much experience with Republicans in particular and Americans in general lying to me, and all the while they are insisting they are the truth-tellers. I am intolerant of either their dimwitted confusion about what is false or their deliberate misleading statements that always seem to favor themselves and do me harm if I believe them.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly




Yeah. I do too, Second.

That's why I can smell your bullshit all the way from Texas.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Wednesday, September 16, 2020 12:36 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

Here's the methodology. Have fun reading that:

https://www.pewresearch.org/methodology/international-survey-research/
international-methodology/all-survey/all-country/all-year



There is zero mention of how many people were surveyed. Could have been 5 hand picked people from each country.

Bullshit that a site like Slate is more than happy to shovel down the mouths of its braindead audience.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

6ix, you went to the wrong place. At the right place: These are among the major findings from a Pew Research Center survey conducted among 13,273 respondents in 13 countries – not including the U.S. – from June 10 to Aug. 3, 2020.

www.pewresearch.org/global/2020/09/15/us-image-plummets-internationall
y-as-most-say-country-has-handled-coronavirus-badly
/

6ix, you and Trump get things wrong constantly because you have delusions about your high intelligence. Both you and Trump need several research assistants to point to real facts and correct your mistakes.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Wednesday, September 16, 2020 3:54 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Trump mishandled the pandemic response, OTOH there wasn't a lot of practical help he could offer. He couldn't make PPEs (masks) and ventilators magically appear

KIKI: There is the defense production act, which Trump invoked for ventilators but not for masks and other ppe, or testing. And he could have used the federal government's clout to purchase supplies nationally to be distributed for states to use, instead of states having to bid against each other.

You can say "let there be light!" but light doesn't necessarily appear, and neither do masks and ventilators.
AFAIK, there was very little ACTUAL PRODUCTION of these items in the USA, and it takes time to tool up a factory for production. Just look at how long it took the paper mills to switch over to household toilet paper instead of institutional.

3M, for example. Everyone wants their N95s, and they are an American company, but their ACTUAL PRODUCTION is mostly in China. And their production is contracted ... already spoken for. Given that the ACTUAL PRODUCTION is thousands of miles away and under another government, it would be impossible to commandeer the masks.

Quote:

There are several reasons for the shortage. Before the coronavirus emerged, China produced about half of the world’s masks
So, if China made half of the masks. and you divvy up the rest of production across the rest of the world. what does that USA account for? 10%?

Quote:

although some of the factories were American brands like 3M that produced for the local [Chinese] market. The prolonged outbreak in China reduced the supply, and during the outbreak production expanded by nearly 12-fold (to 115 million per month). The global inventory of masks was also diminished by the wildfires in California and Australia, which used up many of the supplies held by humanitarian organizations. So why can’t the masks be distributed?

Evidence suggests that China is “hoarding” the mask supply, and is not exporting masks. China has claimed mask factory output for itself, and during the outbreak, they also purchased most of the global inventory of masks from other countries.


https://scm.ncsu.edu/scm-articles/article/where-are-all-the-n95-masks-
a-supply-chain-dilemma


Quote:

... SIGNY and the one drug that was showing promise as a preventative (HCQ) was the target of a campaign by big pharma and liberaloids to discredit it.

KIKI: It also showed a lot of fatal side effects, which can't be ignored if you're going to use a drug on millions of people. It needed and still needs to be tested thoroughly.


HCQ has been in routine use FOR DECADES to prevent and treat malaria. Even our Canadian friend took it for the years that he was in Africa. It would probably be safe to say that hundreds of millions of doses have been distributed by now, and NOBODY has noted such terrible, fatal side effects until, SUDDENLY, now. Now, one might say that giving HCQ to late stage Covid patients in high to toxic-levels (like Britain did) is a different story, but NOBODY (except some medical establishment) was suggesting it as a late-stage treatment. It was ALWAYS being promoted as a prophylactic by those who were advocating its use. YOU pulled up a compilation of HCQ tests which showed positive results as a pre- and post-exposure prophylactic. I know we discussed this already but you seem to keep forgetting that point. THIS IS ONLY ONE OF THOSE STUDIES

Quote:

*****
Low-dose hydroxychloroquine therapy and mortality in hospitalised patients with COVID-19: a nationwide observational study of 8075 participants

ABSTRACT

Hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) has been largely used and investigated as therapy for COVID-19 across various settings at a total dose usually ranging from 2400 mg to 9600 mg. In Belgium, off-label use of low-dose HCQ (total 2400 mg over 5 days) was recommended for hospitalised patients with COVID-19. We conducted a retrospective analysis of in-hospital mortality in the Belgian national COVID-19 hospital surveillance data. Patients treated either with HCQ monotherapy and supportive care (HCQ group) were compared with patients treated with supportive care only (no-HCQ group) using a competing risks proportional hazards regression with discharge alive as competing risk, adjusted for demographic and clinical features with robust standard errors. Of 8075 patients with complete discharge data on 24 May 2020 and diagnosed before 1 May 2020, 4542 received HCQ in monotherapy and 3533 were in the no-HCQ group. Death was reported in 804/4542 (17.7%) and 957/3533 (27.1%), respectively.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0924857920303423

*****

SIGNY: That, and mismanagement by many state governors didn't help.

KIKI: Like having to bid against each other for ventilators and ppe?

No, like state governors not implementing lockdowns quickly enough, or not having a "plan B" besides spreading their legs and crossing their fingers.

AFA ventilators and PPE. there simply weren't enough to go around. Now. I'm not in favor of using "market forces" to distribute scarce items because that only ensures that they go to the entities with the most money. But no matter HOW it was distributed, there was never going to be enough.

Quote:

SIGNY: So, closing the borders was a good first move. I'm not sure if Trump actually has the authority order a nationwide lockdown, but maybe he could have temporarily stopped interstate travel.

KIKI: And have led by example.

Such as? Wear a mask when even the WHO and CDC were saying "masks don't work"?

Quote:

SIGNY: And it would have been far better to get behind masking early on, but you have to realize that even WHO and CDC were saying "masks don't work", so he was just following the advice of the technical experts.

KIKI: Trump NEVER got behind masking. The CDC was a month late but they changed their tune reasonably quickly. What's Trump's excuse?

Actually, he changed his tune, sort of. He DID say he would wear a mask if he thought it was necessary. But, you're right: He could have been a lot more forceful.

There are studies that show that masking only reduces the infection and death rates by 1-2% (ConsumerLab). I don't know what that figure is so low. Possibly because masking isn't universal, possibly because the masks that people are STILL forced to use are substandard.

Quote:

SIGNY: Plus the CDC bollixed the rollout of their testing program, delaying it by a month.

KIKI: The WH should have been bird-dogging this, and asking about alternatives (like the already available WHO test).

How do you know they weren't?

Quote:

SIGNY: Given the sorry state of our medical insurance and healthcare system, and the shabby state of our economy (which forces people to work, sick or well)

KIKI: Yep. There were a lot of problems. The poor economy with no-benefits jobs making people needing to work sick or not ... the horrible state of our health care so-called system, I'll give you that. I'll even add the horrible chronic underpayment of people who really ARE essential, the burden of at risk people, the fractured, siloed nature of medicine including testing capacity ... and I'm sure I missed a lot.

SIGNY...the fact that we don't even make masks and hand sanitizers here in the USA anymore leading to a broken supply chain

KIKI: Yes, we do.

No, we don't. I already pointed out the fact that most of the ACTUAL MASK PRODUCTION is in China, and the USA only makes a small fraction of the total world inventory. AFA hand sanitizer ... yes, we make the ethanol. But CHINA is the source of those "gelling" compounds which allow the ethanol to sit on your hand long enough to do some good. Nobody wants to make chemicals anymore; the industry is dirty and smelly and it pollutes a lot and is sometimes hazardous, so they let China do it.

Quote:

SIGNY: the bollixed testing program, plus the HUGE mismanagement of "assisted living" facilities .... sending "recovering" Covid patients to old folks homes, where they could infect thousands of vulnerable people... REALLY, governor Cuomo? ....

KIKI: The vast, VAST majority of infections in care homes came from before, not after. Studies have shown it wasn't what you assume it was.

Ok, I'll give you that because I don;t know for sure. LINK PLEASE

Quote:

SIGNY: the USA response was ineffective. There were just too many institutionalized problems, decades in the making, to overcome.

KIKI: There were a LOT of baked-in problems!

SIGNY: In the best of all circumstances, Trump might have been able to prevent about half of the deaths by cheerleading individual and state response.

KIKI: I don't think anyone thought US deaths were going to be zero

The same people who were predicting 2-3 million dead are now blaming Trump for not making it zero. I see that here and on Nextdoor. Yes, people ARE that unreasonable.
Quote:

KIKI no matter what. Not preventing 100,000 deaths - that's a significant failure.
IF 40% of deaths came from assisted living facilities, those were beyond the Federal government's reach. That lays at the feet of governors, county supervisors*, and mayors. Lockdowns I THINK are similarly at the state, county, and city level. Masks might reduce deaths by 1-2%. Based on the various studies that I've read, you might expect a 50% reduction in mortality due to HCQ. PPEs are STILL in short supply! By puttng his foot down and promoting HCQ, the Federal government might have saved half of the deaths over which it had control, which was about half of what occurred. But the biggest impact would have been HCQ, not masking or ventilators.
Quote:

SIGNY: But if he had implemented an onerous lockdown (again, assuming he had the power to do so) the TDSers would have been complaining about Trump's rush towards "fascism".
And don't tell me that you wouldn't be, because I know you would.

KIKI: I'm sure they would have.



They already are.

* Did anyone ever notice how weird county governance is compared to city, state, and federal government? No Legislature, for example.

I understand NYC never bothered to use the ventilators it demanded extra of from the Feds. NYC didn't even bother to use the ventilators they had stashed in their warehouses.

Were there actually any places which did not have enough ventilators, really? Were there actually any deaths attributed to lack of ventilators? I have not heard of a single instance of this - although I would be happy to blame DiBlasio's and Cuomo's selling off of their stash of Federally supplied venitilators as cause for some deaths.
Please state location and dates of deaths due to lack of ventilators. All reports I've heard had universally reported no loss of life due to no ventilators.

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Wednesday, September 16, 2020 4:00 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
You're lying media was telling everybody there was going to be over 2 Million Covid deaths by the end of the year.

HUGE win for Trump. He saved 1.6 Million lives.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

When Trump first told that fake story, he had saved 2 million lives in his estimation. Read the story about the Imperial College of Medicine's worst case scenario, the one where everything imaginable goes wrong in the worst possible way and everyone does literally nothing to avoid danger:

https://www.cato.org/blog/how-one-model-simulated-22-million-us-deaths
-covid-19


No. Not Trump.

YOU DUMB FUCKS WERE SAYING THAT.

I know you don't remember what they told you to regurgitate yesterday, so you're not going to remember this either.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

So instead of 22 million dead, we are at 200k. So that means Trump has saved 21.8 million lives so far.

Facts and real Maths keep getting in the way of Libtard Maths.

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Wednesday, September 16, 2020 4:11 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted:
The trolls will distract with all manner of shit that falls into a different category like war. Americas are dying today due to incompetence. That's a big fucking difference. And the trolls won't post that more Americans have died so far from the virus, then in many of our most recent wars combined. Since the Revolutionary War ended, 646,596 American troops have died in battle. 500,000 died in the civil war. That means 146,596 have died in combat since.

We're well past that number now. By the end of December we are expected to have 400,000 dead; then what?

shoo trolls

T


Stupid people don't know they're stupid, and they certainly don't realize how obvious it is to others.

You're lying media was telling everybody there was going to be over 2 Million Covid deaths by the end of the year.

HUGE win for Trump. He saved 1.6 Million lives.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

Further evidence of the neverending stupidity of stupid Libtard Maths, and how obviously stupid it is to non-Libtards.


More than 13,900 Combat deaths prior to Civil War.
less than 215,000 Combat Deaths in Civil War.

666.4k Combat deaths total.
Therefore about 447.5k Combat deaths since Civil War.
Sorry if reality and facts get in the way of your Libtard delusions.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_military_casualties_of_war

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Wednesday, September 16, 2020 5:12 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


You can't even test out their math skills half the time because they simply don't remember the bullshit they were parroting last week to even compare the two numbers.

The Legacy Media relies on stupid people to survive.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Wednesday, September 16, 2020 9:23 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

So instead of 22 million dead, we are at 200k. So that means Trump has saved 21.8 million lives so far.

Facts and real Maths keep getting in the way of Libtard Maths.

Trump said Don't Wear a Face Mask. The CDC Director said Masks may be better guaranteed COVID-19 protection than vaccines. If you don't wear a mask, which is what Trump is telling people to do, the Covid-19 death-toll by Jan 1, 2021, in the Worse-case scenario, will be 620,029 dead (range of 463,361 – 874,649) A “worse case” in which mask usage stays at current rates and governments continue relaxing social distancing requirements. That's a lot of dead people just because Trump wants to keep saying Don't Wear A Mask.

www.healthdata.org/news-release/first-covid-19-global-forecast-ihme-pr
ojects-three-quarters-million-lives-could-be


www.cbs8.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/cdc-director-masks-may-be
-better-guaranteed-covid-19-protection-than-vaccines/507-fcee8211-5d1f-4e03-bf96-e961c1e0616c


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Wednesday, September 16, 2020 10:37 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Fuck your masks.

And when Trump said you should wear them I said the same thing to him too.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Wednesday, September 16, 2020 10:46 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Fuck your masks.

And when Trump said you should wear them I said the same thing to him too.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

President Donald Trump caused some confusion during an ABC News town hall on Tuesday (Sept 15th) when he criticized Democratic nominee Joe Biden for not following through on a pledge to institute a mask mandate to control the spread of COVID-19 – even though Biden does not hold office – and citing restaurant servers as a group opposed to the use of masks.

"A lot of people don’t want to wear masks," Trump said, immediately after his criticism of Biden for not implementing a mandate. "A lot of people think that masks are not good," he added.

"Who are those people?" asked Stephanopoulos.

"I’ll tell you who those people are: waiters," Trump said. "They come over and they serve you, and they have a mask. And I saw it the other day where they were serving me, and they're playing with the mask. I’m not blaming them, I’m just saying what happens. They're playing with the mask, so the mask is over, and they're touching it, and then they're touching the plate. That can’t be good."

"They said very strongly, George, don’t wear masks. Then all of a sudden they went to wear masks," Trump said.

"The concept of a mask is good," Trump added, before repeating his concerns about people touching their masks. "There are people that don’t think masks are good."

Trump is completely out of his dinky mind.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2020/09/16/trum
p-town-hall-biden-masks/5814307002
/

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Thursday, September 17, 2020 1:07 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Nobody cares.

Your fucking TDS has been nonstop, 365 for the last 4 years.

Get a fucking life.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Thursday, September 17, 2020 5:18 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Nobody cares.

Your fucking TDS has been nonstop, 365 for the last 4 years.

Get a fucking life.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

6ix, you won't wear a mask. As long as I can remember, many shops and restaurants have had signs on their doors proclaiming “no shirt, no shoes, no service.” How many of these establishments have been stormed by mobs of bare-chested protesters? Anti-mask agitation by Trump isn’t really about freedom, or individualism, or culture. It’s a declaration of political allegiance, driven by Trump and his allies.

But why make a partisan issue out of what should be straightforward public health policy? The fairly obvious answer is that we’re looking at the efforts of an amoral politician to rescue his flailing campaign. So his latest ploy is an attempt to convince people that the Covid-19 threat is over. But widespread mask-wearing is a constant reminder that the virus is still out there. Hence Trump’s renewed push against the simplest, most sensible of public health precautions.

As a political strategy, this ploy probably won’t work. But it will lead to a lot of unnecessary deaths.

6ix, you live on $4,500 per year because you are deranged in the brain. My reference?
http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=63720&mid=11044
97#1104497


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Thursday, September 17, 2020 9:05 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Has ZERO to do with Trump, fuckwit.

I told him on his youtube channel to go fuck himself when he said people should wear masks.

You wear a mask, bitch. I ain't wearing one.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Thursday, September 17, 2020 9:06 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Here's an idea for all you authoriKarens...

Double up. Wear two fucking masks when you go out. That way you don't have to worry about all the sane people out there that aren't wearing one.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Thursday, September 17, 2020 9:06 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Here's an idea for all you authoriKarens...

Double up. Wear two fucking masks when you go out. That way you don't have to worry about all the sane people out there that aren't wearing one.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Thursday, September 17, 2020 10:08 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Here's an idea for all you authoriKarens...

Double up. Wear two fucking masks when you go out. That way you don't have to worry about all the sane people out there that aren't wearing one.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

Michael Steele, the former chairman of the Republican National Committee, sharply criticized President Donald Trump's supporters. "I'm exhausted, I'm exasperated ... The fact that we have to literally beg people to wear a mask to save their own dumb a** from getting sick? I'm sorry. To me, it is beyond the imagination."

"And yet 40% of the country looks at it and goes, 'Yeah, I'm with stupid.' "

"This President stands at a podium today and not only contradicts his CDC director, but basically says he perjured himself under oath before Congress because he is saying something different than Donald Trump," Steele said. "The CDC director is telling us the truth. Donald Trump is literally lying to us."

https://www.997wtn.com/news/ex-republican-party-chairman-michael-steel
e-rips-trump-supporters-yeah-im-with-stupid
/

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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