I know the truth...do you know the truth... by CaptBryan

Truth isn't relative, either. Height, distance, quantity -- yep, they're relative, but not truth.

Of course, I think the bit about truth not being "liquid" is your way of saying it isn't relative -- in which case, I just made a redundant post. Although, maybe that's my job.

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Tuesday, February 7, 2006 8:48 AM

The problems arise when people mistake opinion and beleif for truth.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Tuesday, February 7, 2006 8:51 AM

KHYRON

The only truth is that there is no such thing as truth. Just perceptions of reality.

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Tuesday, February 7, 2006 9:00 AM

1978

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
The problems arise when people mistake opinion and beleif for truth.

Wow I like the way that you put that.....and I have never thought about it like that. Good point.

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Tuesday, February 7, 2006 9:00 AM

AGENTROUKA

Quote:
Originally posted by Khyron:
The only truth is that there is no such thing as truth. Just perceptions of reality.

Word.

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Tuesday, February 7, 2006 10:40 AM

Well if we must do this:

If I were slappin you aside the head would you want me to stop or slow down according to your Perspective or mine?

When you stop believing Im slappin you up side your head and I dont believe it ... Does it mean your head wont hurt no more?

If I believe I can spell would it make it happen..lol
------------------------------------------------
Boy ... I got way to to much time on me hands.

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Saying that God authored confusion by creating Lucifer is like saying my sniper rifle goes out all by itself and shoots people 2 miles away so I dont get into trouble.

Ridin the Ocean's boring when there aint no waves

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Tuesday, February 7, 2006 10:43 AM

VERITAS NUNQUAM PERIT

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Tuesday, February 7, 2006 10:48 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by CaptBryan:
Well if we must do this:

If I were slappin you aside the head would you want me to stop or slow down according to your Perspective or mine?

Well, if it's the perspective of a person who enjoys it, maybe.

Quote:
When you stop believing Im slappin you up side your head and I dont believe it ... Does it mean your head wont hurt no more?

If one has enough mental control, perhaps it would stop hurting.

But those are oversimplifying the concept. And those are easy enough truths to arrive at. It's when you open up the questions to broader topics that things have the potential to get messy.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Tuesday, February 7, 2006 10:55 AM

Yep... you got that right.

Yep... you got that right?

So the Twin Towers didnt really fall?

So the TWin Towers didnt really fall.

________________________________________________

Saying that God authored confusion by creating Lucifer is like saying my sniper rifle goes out all by itself and shoots people 2 miles away so I dont get into trouble.

Ridin the Ocean's boring when there aint no waves

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Tuesday, February 7, 2006 11:01 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by CaptBryan:
So the Twin Towers didnt really fall?

So the TWin Towers didnt really fall.

I suppose that depends on the twin towers in question, and if you mean the obvious one my answer is that they did not really fall. If you watch the footage, which I have not desire to see again, they don't remotely fall, the collapse, which is a very, very different thing.

Yes, I can nitpick with the best of them.

-

Why did no one respond to:
VERITAS NUNQUAM PERIT

I thought it was really good and on topic and enlightened sounding.

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Tuesday, February 7, 2006 11:12 AM

My Latin sucks...I think.

The Truth is I know enough Latin to make me look foolish ... which is some thing I do quite well.

I think thats Latin.
Well if I think its Latin then it is...Right?

Well now Im confused...I think.

================================================

Saying that God authored confusion by creating Lucifer is like saying my sniper rifle goes out all by itself and shoots people 2 miles away so I dont get into trouble.

Ridin the Ocean's boring when there aint no waves

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Tuesday, February 7, 2006 11:17 AM

It is Latin, it means, "Truth never dies."

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Tuesday, February 7, 2006 11:24 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by CaptBryan:

So the Twin Towers didnt really fall?

So the TWin Towers didnt really fall.

________________________________________________

Saying that God authored confusion by creating Lucifer is like saying my sniper rifle goes out all by itself and shoots people 2 miles away so I dont get into trouble.

Ridin the Ocean's boring when there aint no waves

Now you're getting into truth vs. fact, which is an entirely different discussion in many ways.

Now, assuming you mean the WTC towers, then yes, I would agree that the truth is they fell (or collapsed - semantics aside). That is a fact.

Now, when you get beyond the facts is when the truth is harder to find. To most people, the truth is, that day was a tragedy. But to some others, thier truth is that day was a victory. Which is not to say that I even remotely agree, or think that is any way true, but that does not change the fact that to some people, that is very much the truth they see. Truths can get very messy.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Tuesday, February 7, 2006 11:30 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
Now you're getting into truth vs. fact, which is an entirely different discussion in many ways.

Now, assuming you mean the WTC towers, then yes, I would agree that the truth is they fell (or collapsed - semantics aside). That is a fact.

Now, when you get beyond the facts is when the truth is harder to find. To most people, the truth is, that day was a tragedy. But to some others, thier truth is that day was a victory. Which is not to say that I even remotely agree, or think that is any way true, but that does not change the fact that to some people, that is very much the truth they see. Truths can get very messy.

I just wanted to point out how (I'm sorry I can't think of another word) true this is.

A lot of people get confused when some philosophers say, "There is no such thing as truth," because they assume the philosophers mean, "There is no such thing as fact." In fact (hard to escape these words isnt it?) no philosopher I have ever heard of, nor anyone else I've heard of in a legal state of mind, believes that.

-

I should have used the word, "correct," in my first sentance, but I'm leaving it as is to avoid dragging in another concept and to show that I couldn't think of another word, which is part of what makes this hard to talk about.

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Tuesday, February 7, 2006 11:53 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Khyron:
The only truth is that there is no such thing as truth. Just perceptions of reality.

Is that statement true or false?

If that statement is true, then that statement is false.

As such, I see a problem with that statement.

Like the person who says "There's no absolute truth." Well, that very statement is making an absolute truth ("that there is no absolute truth") -- so the very statement contradicts itself.

See what you started, Captain? Why couldn't you start a non-controversial topic like George Lucas, ewoks, or disco?

BTW, it's true that I agree with everything you posted above.

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Tuesday, February 7, 2006 12:04 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by cartoon:
Quote:
Originally posted by Khyron:
The only truth is that there is no such thing as truth. Just perceptions of reality.

Is that statement true or false?

If that statement is true, then that statement is false.

As such, I see a problem with that statement.

Like the person who says "There's no absolute truth." Well, that very statement is making an absolute truth ("that there is no absolute truth") -- so the very statement contradicts itself.

So, how about there is probably no absolute truth, maybe, but we're not entirely sure?

Works for me.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Tuesday, February 7, 2006 12:04 PM

OKCBROWNCOAT

Depends on your definition of facts, and also of truth. You can observe an event, but your perspective on said event could be very much different from someone standing, say, immediately to your left.

For example, depending on your perspective your truth could be Fox is a flawed network that sometimes makes questionable decisions in regard to programming decisions... or you could think they're a bunch of idiots that know jack about running a network and it's a miracle they're still on the air.

Personally, any network that airs the Simpsons can't be all bad (even if that's the only thing I ever watch on Fox anymore.)

"We've done the impossible, and that makes us mighty."

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Tuesday, February 7, 2006 12:04 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by cartoon:
Quote:
Originally posted by Khyron:
The only truth is that there is no such thing as truth. Just perceptions of reality.

Is that statement true or false?

I had to do an essay on whether or not the statement: "There is no objective truth," was a contradiction once.

The answer is, "Hell yes," but even so the only people who see it as a contradiction are nitpickers (like me) who have no common sense (unlike me, I may not have much, but I have a little.)

What the statement is clearly meant to say is, "There is only one objective truth and that is that there are no other objective truths." It's just too wordy (more than twice as long) and the meaning can be gotten much easier by having the contradiction that only the very dull will not understand is not contradictory when looked at with common sense.

Similarly, "The only truth is that there is no such thing as truth." Clearly means "The only truth is that there is no such thing as truth beyond this one truth."

I assume, from the smiley face, that you know this. But I had to write an entire essay on it.

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Tuesday, February 7, 2006 12:24 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by christhecynic:
Similarly, "The only truth is that there is no such thing as truth." Clearly means "The only truth is that there is no such thing as truth beyond this one truth."

I assume, from the smiley face, that you know this. But I had to write an entire essay on it.

In other words (to save you the time and space of your entire essay), there is truth -- (if, at the very least, simply that which is not "false").

That definition ("that which is simply not false") would easily apply to all of Captain's statements as I understand them...

"That which is not false" will always be the truth.

"That which is not false" will never be liquid.

"That which is not false" will never be a lie no matter how many people believe it.

"That which is not false" will set you free.

"That which is not false" will never hold you down.

"That which is not false" will be "that which is not false" no matter how many times it is told.

"That which is not false" can not be argued with.

"That which is not false" is you can not believe "that which is not false" if you believe a lie.

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Tuesday, February 7, 2006 12:31 PM

I am therefore I think.

So as long as I think I am.

Did I just step into some thing else or was this stinkin before?

This Is what Boogles me.

+++++++++++===========++++++++++++++++++++++++=========

Saying that God authored confusion by creating Lucifer is like saying my sniper rifle goes out all by itself and shoots people 2 miles away so I dont get into trouble.

Ridin the Ocean's boring when there aint no waves

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Tuesday, February 7, 2006 12:40 PM

As a High School teacher, I, like Mal from time to time have to remind my students that only my version of the truth is the correct one. Anything else will get you marked off.

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Tuesday, February 7, 2006 12:43 PM

Yes ...

and as Captain I expect My truth to be taken as solid aboard my ship...

Can you imagine the Chaos That would rein if I didnt...

=============================================

Saying that God authored confusion by creating Lucifer is like saying my sniper rifle goes out all by itself and shoots people 2 miles away so I dont get into trouble.

Ridin the Ocean's boring when there aint no waves

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Tuesday, February 7, 2006 12:47 PM

Depending on what you teach I may very well hate teachers like you.

To move on a tangent ... Math.

The thing about math is that that there is a true and a false because anything that can not be assigned a value of true or false is kicked out.

The thing about almost all else is that it doesn't work that way. If I get a job as a history teacher at a place which requires I publish academic papers, so that would be a college not a high school, I could publish a paper a year about a single battle and say a different (contradictory) thing about it every time. That would be ok, because so long as I got the facts right the truth is whatever I damn well please. (This assumes that they are well written papers.)

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Tuesday, February 7, 2006 12:49 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by CaptBryan:
Yes ...

and as Captain I expect My truth to be taken as solid aboard my ship...

Can you imagine the Chaos That would rein if I didnt...

Yes, sir.

(looks about nervously)

Crew may be thinking mutiny, sir. Permission to gas them all, sir?

(suddenly wondering what makes me think that I even belong to this crew, much less have access to any gas)

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Tuesday, February 7, 2006 1:03 PM

I just read some where that Thomas Edison believed there were like 15 tiny people in our brains...

And all this time I thought I was the Only one with 'BACK UP SINGERS'...

and everyone esle could hear'em too and we were good...

OH well...E PLURIBUS UNUM

(thats my extent of Latin)wait ... wait...

SEMPER FIDELUS... also yes cant forget my Marine Brothers

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++===

Saying that God authored confusion by creating Lucifer is like saying my sniper rifle goes out all by itself and shoots people 2 miles away so I dont get into trouble.

Ridin the Ocean's boring when there aint no waves

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Tuesday, February 7, 2006 1:14 PM

I teach World History, and I'm not as much a hard-ass as I like to think. We get into some good discussions and in-class stuff. Tomorrow we are building trebuchets and lauching grapes around the classroom, should be chaos

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Tuesday, February 7, 2006 1:17 PM

Only wish I could find SOME way to show FF in class, convert a few Browncoats from among my students

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Tuesday, February 7, 2006 1:29 PM

WORLD HISTORY... come on...

You have it in the makin right now...
The CHINESE are buyin every scrap of land America sells them... we send Our work to them cause labor is cheaper there...

Do the HISTORY...Show them The Movie...!

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Saying that God authored confusion by creating Lucifer is like saying my sniper rifle goes out all by itself and shoots people 2 miles away so I dont get into trouble.

Ridin the Ocean's boring when there aint no waves

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Tuesday, February 7, 2006 1:39 PM

KHYRON

Quote:
Originally posted by cartoon:
Quote:
Originally posted by Khyron:
The only truth is that there is no such thing as truth. Just perceptions of reality.

Is that statement true or false?

If that statement is true, then that statement is false.

As such, I see a problem with that statement.

lol, I actually meant that as a joke, didn't expect people to take it seriously. For the very reasons you mentioned, that statement doesn't make logical sense. It's based on the sentence "This sentence is false", just adapted to fit the topic in question. The second sentence is some pseudo-philosophical bull that technically is true, but in itself doesn't contribute any new meaning. Obviously, in terms of what the human mind can comprehend, there are only perceptions of reality (yours and that of every other individual), but that doesn't preclude the existence of truth. Different perceptions just muddle things up, to the extent that sometimes the existence of an underlying truth may be doubted.

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Tuesday, February 7, 2006 2:13 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Khyron:
lol, I actually meant that as a joke, didn't expect people to take it seriously. For the very reasons you mentioned, that statement doesn't make logical sense.

Come on, Khyron. This is me.

I'd never pick on you.

We're good buddies, right?

(Uh, who is this Khyron person, and why was he let onto Capt's ship? Do we have any of that gas left over? Looks like a trouble-maker to me.)

Sorry, if you thought I was jabbing at you.

Your post merely afforded me an opportunity to make a point which I'm sure you already knew before I pointed at it with some point-like object.

(Seriously, people, where's that gas? This person looks like trouble.)

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Tuesday, February 7, 2006 3:09 PM

ASARIAN

Quote:
Originally posted by CaptBryan:

The truth will always be the truth.

The truth will never be liquid.

The truth will never be a lie no matter how many people belive it.

The truth will set you free.

The truth will never hold you down.

The truth will be truth no matter how many times it is told.

The truth can not be argued with.

The truth is you can not believe the truth if you believe a lie.

River: Truth is a problem. We'll have to call it "early quantum state phenomenon".

Sorry; just woke up. :)

--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam.

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Wednesday, February 8, 2006 7:43 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by CaptBryan:
WORLD HISTORY... come on...

You have it in the makin right now...
The CHINESE are buyin every scrap of land America sells them... we send Our work to them cause labor is cheaper there...

Do the HISTORY...Show them The Movie...!

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Saying that God authored confusion by creating Lucifer is like saying my sniper rifle goes out all by itself and shoots people 2 miles away so I dont get into trouble.

Ridin the Ocean's boring when there aint no waves

Unfortunately, we are waist deep in the renaissance right now. Fun, but no tie-ins

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Wednesday, February 8, 2006 7:52 PM

CHRISMOORHEAD

"Saying that God authored confusion by creating Lucifer is like saying my sniper rifle goes out all by itself and shoots people 2 miles away so I dont get into trouble."

Cap'n, I'd pay you for this quote if I wasn't going to steal it anyways.

"Deep in the battlefield covered in blood
Lies an Airborne Ranger dying in the mud
He fought for his country and he died like a man
Though some people back home just wouldn't understand"

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Thursday, February 9, 2006 1:19 AM

I got no problem wid it ...use it....thats what its there for.

===================================================

Saying that God authored confusion by creating Lucifer is like saying my sniper rifle goes out all by itself and shoots people 2 miles away so I dont get into trouble.

Ridin the Ocean's boring when there aint no waves

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Thursday, February 9, 2006 1:37 AM

LALARA

The truth is also an absolute which means it is something we can base our life on and not have the rug pulled out from under us.
I like you when you're being PHILOSOPHICAL.

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Thursday, February 9, 2006 1:40 AM

LALARA

I wish I had you as a teacher when I was taking world history. I would have done more listening and less sleeping.

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Thursday, February 9, 2006 4:31 AM

GINGER08

The one problem I see with truth is what is true and what is false all depends on your defination of what truth is. If a person thinks truth is fact then what he says is true is going to be different from what someone else thinks is true if their defination of truth is their side of the story. It gets very complicated. But then if life wasn't complicated it would get very very boring

" Were you born with that ego or did it just develop over time?"

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Thursday, February 9, 2006 6:19 AM

Truth should not be mistaken with perception of truth. The truth (what is not false) is true whether or not anyone perceives it to be so.

Captain phrased it somewhat differently ("The truth will never be a lie no matter how many people belive it"), as did Lalara ("absolute").

BTW, Alistair Beg (surprisingly from a show called "Truth for Life") just had a great talk on the radio today about "truth". I couldn't find an available transcript, but people with quicker connections than I have can probably listen here: http://www.truthforlife.org/listen_daily.php

It's ironic that I turn on the radio and hear Mr. Beg speaking about absolute truth while I'm reading this thread, right at this moment. lol

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Thursday, February 9, 2006 6:49 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by CaptBryan:
If I believe I can spell would it make it happen..lol

If everyone else believed your spelling was correct as well, then I guess it would be.

Sorry - haven't posted on here for well over a year, but couldn't resist this one.

Just because nobody knows the truth, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

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Friday, February 10, 2006 6:18 AM