Who would have been the first character to die? by Jahzara

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Who would have been the first character to die?

POSTED BY: JAHZARA
UPDATED: Monday, February 2, 2004 15:16
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Thursday, January 29, 2004 7:16 AM

Knowing Joss, I doubt all nine characters would have made it through the first season of Firefly, had it been completed.

I think it would have probably been either Wash or Zoe, due to their marriage. I love them both, but Joss likes to hurt his main characters, and Zoe's death would screw up Mal even more. I couldn't go without Wash, but maybe Joss could.

Who do y'all think?

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Thursday, January 29, 2004 7:20 AM

KURUKAMI

Not necessarily. All of the main characters made it through the first season of Buffy all right -- Buffy, Xander, Willow, Giles, and (eventually) Cordy. You're right, though... it seems possible that something significant would happen to shake up the way of things.

Personally, though, I suspect it would be to Book. There'd be some large revelation about who he was and what his background truly was, and that would greatly change his relationship with the rest of the crew.

The only problem I see with the whole "things will change" is that Serenity's such a small, enclosed environment, compared to the vastness of the rest of the settled territory. Dropping a character off on a planet, unless it was just a short term thing, would mean saying goodbye to that character for a long, long time. It's not like Sunnydale, where a villain could be somewhere nearby for much of the season, only to emerge in the season's final episodes.

History doesn't always repeat itself. Sometimes it merely shouts "Weren't you listening the first time?!?" and lets fly with a club.

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Thursday, January 29, 2004 7:51 AM

ATHERTONWING

Joss is happiest when his fans are pissed off at him, non the less i dont think he would have killed off a core cast member so early on.

He's also expressed his deep love for gina and the way she plays zoe,so i doubt she would be going anywhere.

Firefly is a very different show in many ways to both buffy and angel, plus he did already kinda kill mal. if my bets were on one person he may have brought someone else in to murder, this has been done on two accounts in the form of both tara and doyle.

always the great romantic,joss sets the couples up then knocks them down so maybe one of the will they wont they couples, like inara and mal or kaylee and simon, god i miss the show.

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Thursday, January 29, 2004 8:25 AM

KASUO

I'd put my 2 bits of platinum on Jayne. Figuring how close Mal came to letting Jayne get space keelhauled (spkeelhauled? heh), I would think Jayne would die either by another act of betrayal or in the line of fire.

________
"Let's moon 'em!"

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Thursday, January 29, 2004 8:29 AM

ATHERTONWING

Quote:
Originally posted by kasuo:
I'd put my 2 bits of platinum on Jayne. Figuring how close Mal came to letting Jayne get space keelhauled (spkeelhauled? heh), I would think Jayne would die either by another act of betrayal or in the line of fire.

________
"Let's moon 'em!"

or maybe he'd redeem himself by protecting river from the guys with the blue hands and ultimatly sacraficing himself to save her...in fact that sounds like a rather plausable storyline to me.

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Thursday, January 29, 2004 8:53 AM

HJERMSTED

I agree.

It would have been Jayne and redemption would have been involved.

mattro

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Thursday, January 29, 2004 9:09 AM

CAPTAINCDC

Quote:
Originally posted by athertonwing:
Firefly is a very different show in many ways to both buffy and angel, plus he did already kinda kill mal. if my bets were on one person he may have brought someone else in to murder, this has been done on two accounts in the form of both tara and doyle.

Don't forget about Giles and Jenny Calendar.

I also do not think JW would have killed off one of the core cast members in the first season. With the chemistry the cast had together, I don't think he would have gotten rid of any of them that early. Any of the supporting characters or lovers that might pop up from time to time would be fair game. But, Joss is the genius, so who knows what he had in mind?

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.

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Thursday, January 29, 2004 9:22 AM

THALOS

Another version of this question could be: Who leaves the ship first? Meaning that if the season had gone longer it appeared that Inara may be leaving.

And IMHO, that is a double whammy for Joss. It obviously would disrupt the Inara/Mal relationship along with disrupting the entire ship chemistry, leading to some very interesting episodes.

I can see it now, Serenity is denied access for landing on Persephone (or enter desired planet name here) because they no longer have there "Ambassador" on board as an excuse and spend the whole episode trying to deliver some type of cargo to Badger who will of course ultimatly not take it because Mal is late.

"Whoa, good Bible."

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Thursday, January 29, 2004 9:32 AM

OKKAY

I really don't think Joss would have killed off any of the 9 main characters for a very long time, if ever. He picked these specific characters for a reason, and I think there were still many, many stories to tell with each of them. This was a special bunch, and I don't think the plan was to kill off any of them unless the unexpected twists and turns several years down the line required it.

If you look back on Buffy/Angel, besides Doyle, none of the main characters (ones with names in the credits) have died permanently, except for Anya in the last episode. And with Doyle, on one of Joss's commentaries (I think on Welcome to the Hellmouth/The Harvest) he seemed to imply that putting Doyle in the credits was a "trick" to make his death have more of an impact, and they had planned to kill off Doyle real quickly.

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Thursday, January 29, 2004 9:52 AM

JAHZARA

I don't think it would have been Jayne, though, simply because that's too plausible. We all kind of expect if Jayne died, it'd be redemptive, so Joss wouldn't do it. Maybe he would shoot it in a way that we would see Jayne die doing something heroic but the rest of the crew would think that he betrayed them.

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Thursday, January 29, 2004 9:55 AM

KURUKAMI

I'd actually put in a vote for Inara. Not that I'd want her to die... just that she seems the most likely candidate.

History doesn't always repeat itself. Sometimes it merely shouts "Weren't you listening the first time?!?" and lets fly with a club.

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Thursday, January 29, 2004 9:59 AM

SHINY

Quote:
Originally posted by Kurukami:
I'd actually put in a vote for Inara. Not that I'd want her to die... just that she seems the most likely candidate.

Yeah...we all know she's dying anyway...

RIVER
Purple elephants are flying.
MAL
Good. Thanks for the update.

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Thursday, January 29, 2004 11:09 AM

JAHZARA

Quote:
Originally posted by Shiny:
Quote:
Originally posted by Kurukami:
I'd actually put in a vote for Inara. Not that I'd want her to die... just that she seems the most likely candidate.

Yeah...we all know she's dying anyway...

Oh! I forgot.

Yeah, her first.

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Thursday, January 29, 2004 11:11 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.

I would put even money on Inara or Book.

Inara is a candidate because her death would greatly affect Mal, the whole unrequitted love thing. Then there is Inara's friendship w/ Kaylee; there would be drama there as Kaylee tries to cope w/ the loss of Inara.

Book and his death could have all kinds of odd twists, if only we knew his background. Maybe his supposed ties to the Alliance could haunt Serenity and crew if they were blamed for his death.

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

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Thursday, January 29, 2004 12:04 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Simon.

Imagine the struggle to deal with River that would then ensue?

LOTS of story value there.

-frem
diefuxdie

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Friday, January 30, 2004 12:46 AM

NIGHTMARCHER

not likely to happen, but i personally think that Jayne would've been the first to go. at the very least caused himself a very nasty flesh wound by the barrel of Vera. sure he's good with a gun, but he's not the brightest star in the galaxy. he could be cleaning Vera one day at the kitchen table and someone would walk in and scare the begesus out of him while he's got his finger on the trigger... BOOM! not that he had a whole lotta brains to begin with anyway.

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Friday, January 30, 2004 5:41 AM

KALATHENA

Joss has never killed a contract character until the series finale and never will. That's just part of his formula. A "contract" character is one who is contracted for every episode of the season and appears in the opening credits. The crew of Serenity is exempt from death until such time as there would have been a series finale.

I do, however, love that one person observed that Joss likes it best when his fans are pissed off at him. That's just so true. He also hates it when his characters are content with their lives. On Buffy as soon as Jonathan started going on about he didn't care if people from high school knew what he was doing; he was happy wondering about them and with his life the way it was, I turned to my husband and said, "Uh oh. Boy's gonna die..."

Five minutes later my prediction came true. I wonder if he even realizes how formulaic he's starting to get.

--Kala

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Saturday, January 31, 2004 9:22 AM

TMURRIE

Ya, like in Buffy when Tara was FINALLY in the opening credits, she died that same episode.

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Saturday, January 31, 2004 12:06 PM

STEVE580

Actually, he does kill people from the credits, and not just at season finalles. Doyle is one. Haven't seen season 4 of Angel yet, but I'm pretty sure Cordillea (I know, I know, I can't spell) left the group (via a comma) while in the credits.

But then, people are probably more likely to die on Buffy and Angel than on Firefly. In these two shows, there is always the possibility of magically bringing them back; on Firefly, they're just gone, forever. I'm pretty sure that no charactor has ever left the show on a Whedon program without making one or two more appearances (ie Oz, Riley, Joyce, Jenny, Lindsey, Conner, Conner's abducter, Cordelia, ect)

Anyways, I doubt Whedon will kill any of these people. If he does, it'll be doing something heroic (Doyle-style), not just something random (Joyce & Tara).

That's what I think. I hate that there's the chance a charactor would die; but it's really a good thing: when watching Ariel, I was unsure if Jayne would live or not. On any other show, the exact same scene may have been somewhat dull.
-Steve

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Saturday, January 31, 2004 4:07 PM

KALATHENA

Yes, but if you listen to Joss' commentary from the "Welcome to the Hellmouth" you know that Doyle was meant to die from day one. Joss never intended him to be in many episodes. He explains that had hoped to put the guy who played Jesse in the opening credits, but couldn't afford at that time to make two versions of the opening credits. He says, "So then I did it on ANGEL and it just pissed a lot of people off.

Cordelia's not dead, either.

--Kala

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Saturday, January 31, 2004 4:34 PM

TALONPEST

I agree that they would all have survived the first season- they've all got stuff to do still. Inara may have temporarily left the ship, but I think the narrative would have followed her while she was off on her own.

If Joss were to kill someone off, it would likely be someone who doesn't have a specific job, like Wash, Simon, and Kaylee. Kill one of them, you just have to bring in someone else to do their job just to keep the ship flying, and that's pointless unless an actor wants out.

Mal is also presumably immune. That leaves Zoey, Jayne, Book, Inara, and River. As for who goes first, I'm going to say it'd be a tossup between Book and River. Both of them are pretty much one-trick ponies, and once their secrets are out you can't do much with them. Book is pretty replacable. Once you figure out who he really is, you can dump him for someone with a new story to tell.

In order for River's character to grow in any way, she'll have to gain more control over her faculties and ablities. And once she gets her act together... well, no power in the 'verse could stop her. And to quote Joss from the top of the page as I write this, "I wanted to do a show about people who are not 'super,' just working-class people, the people history steps on." That sure doesn't describe River.

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Saturday, January 31, 2004 5:16 PM

STEVE580

Yeah, I'm sure Mal was on the show for good, just as Angel or Buffy were on 'Angel' and 'Buffy' for good.

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Saturday, January 31, 2004 5:41 PM

REDJACK

I don't think any of the characters would have died in season one. This isn't the BUFFY-verse where people can be magically resusitated at the drop of a claddegh.

In the commentary both Joss and I think Tim Minear make referense to the notion that Inara planned to leave Serenity.

I imagine this would have come out of the internal conflict of her character who was least suited to the lifestyle of outlaw/smuggler/theives.

We spent the first season pretty much on the outside of the Alliance– getting only glimpses here and there.

If Inara leaves Serenity but not the show, we might have gotten more stories about her end of the social pool culminating with her return to the shipand, of course, to Mal.

The only character I feel is actually expendable is Simon but I doubt even he would have gotten killed.

The Price of Knowledge is Knowing.

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Saturday, January 31, 2004 6:38 PM

VETERAN

Don't squat with your spurs on.

Inara was obviously leaving Serenity. Whether her leaving was permenant or not, who really knows?

If you want to talk about expendable characters it might be interesting to find out who the original five characters were before Joss decided to expand the ensemble to nine.

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Sunday, February 1, 2004 10:41 AM

STEVE580

Simon? Expendable? I disagree. Book, or Jayne, perhaps...even wash...but surely not Simon. For one, as someone mentioned, he's the doctor - his leaving would neccesetate(sp?) the arrival of a new doctor charactor. Also, his relation with River and Kaylee, and to a lesser extent, Mal and Jayne - I think he was too much a part of the ship to leave.

Besides, he's my favorite charactor!
-Steve

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Sunday, February 1, 2004 11:03 AM

KALATHENA

Now you're talking about something different: LEAVING the show. Characters, even contract characters leave Joss shows all the times. Conflicts come up; actors decide to go on to other projects, etc. Just because they leave, however, does NOT mean they will be killed off.

Personally, I'd love to see Joss break his formula and actually kill off a contract character when the actor decides to leave the show. I just don't believe he'll ever do it. He's so obsessed with breaking TV formula that he doesn't even realize how much of his own that he's developed.

--Kala

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Sunday, February 1, 2004 11:16 AM

RADHIL

That's probably exactly why he'd be killed - he's integral to quite a number of characters, especially Kaylee and River. And Josh has no better tool in his arsenal than putting his sweetest characters through hellish anguish.

As for replacement doctors, I notice in a few of the unaired scripts posted here that Inara was kinda becoming his de facto nurse...

Radhil Trebors
Persona Under Construction

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Sunday, February 1, 2004 12:36 PM

TMURRIE

I don't believe anyone would have been killed at all in the first season. Or left, with the possible exception of Inara. Even though Joss loves to piss of his fans by killing a loved character, I think he loved the show much much more.

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Sunday, February 1, 2004 7:03 PM

GWEILO

I think the cast was picked to last. The relationships and potential relationships between them all led me to believe that they were all intended to stay with the show for a really long time. But then again… I never figured Doyle would kick the bucket after 10 some odd episodes, so what do I know?

What I’m willing to bet everyone here loves about Whedon is his ability to make you jump out of your seat and go: “WHAT?!?!”. Stare at the TV, mouth hanging open, blinking in disbelief and repeat that “what”, like a crazy person. (Suspect this may be why neighbours look at me funny. Thin walls…)

This is what makes me so &#%$€ about the cancellation of the series. They robbed us of another opportunity for Whedon to come up with something that none of us could have anticipated.

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Sunday, February 1, 2004 7:54 PM

OPUSTHEPENGUIN

Quote:
Originally posted by athertonwing:
Joss is happiest when his fans are pissed off at him,

This is why Joss himself arranged to have the show canceled. He'll bring it back. You'll see. ;-)

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Monday, February 2, 2004 4:04 AM

STEVE580

I thought that might be the case...

You know, I didn't watch Angel or BtVS from the beginning. Therefore, the big surprizes that occured, I generally knew about when I saw the episode (like, I knew Buffy's mom wasn't in the last ep, so when I saw her die, I wasn't surprized). I missed all the cool twists on both shows. Fortunatly, Angel's still on...but since I watched all the episodes out of order, and missed a bunch completley, I'll just never get the same effect of the show as someone who's been a loyal fan for five years. It sucks so much that I didn't get that chance with Firefly.

I mean, get that chance -yet-.
-Steve

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Monday, February 2, 2004 5:19 AM

GWEILO

You know Steve580, that was the case for me too. I live in a small country in a remote part of the world where some shows (like Angel) however brilliant never make it to our TV screens. It took me until season 6 to get into Buffy. The whole glorification of vampires deal had been so done imho. I really didn’t need to see another show about vampires… or so I thought. Then I accidentally saw an episode one late night and I fell in love. Never expected it to be so funny. Anyway, to make a long rant short: I saw a lot of Buffy episodes out of order too but as it turned out that didn’t matter very much. Sure, it would have been better to see them in sequence. But with each individual show being so good, it still makes for an over all experience that is so much better than most shows you do see in the correct order.

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Monday, February 2, 2004 2:45 PM

KALATHENA

Yeah, Steve, I had a lot of the same problems. My husband had already used "The Body" in his Teen Health class at school for his grief and loss unit before I'd ever really watched Buffy. It was the third ep I'd ever seen. (I'd watched "The Zeppo" when it first aired because Channon Roe was in it and had seen most of another S5 ep)

Other things still got me, though. I knew Jenny Calendar was no longer around, but I *never* expected what happened to her in "Passion". I knew how S2 was going to end and that Angel was going to have to come back, but I *still* got choked up. It's pretty amazing when writing can evoke that much emotion even when you can see what's coming.

--Kala

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Monday, February 2, 2004 3:16 PM

JAHZARA

Quote:
Originally posted by tmurrie:
I don't believe anyone would have been killed at all in the first season. Or left, with the possible exception of Inara. Even though Joss loves to piss of his fans by killing a loved character, I think he loved the show much much more.

Ooh, I hope you're right. I kinda came off as if I wanted one of them to be a goner, when I was just speculating.

Interesting theories, everyone.

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