Ark ships? by Cruithne3753

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Ark ships?

POSTED BY: CRUITHNE3753
UPDATED: Sunday, July 1, 2007 10:45
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Sunday, June 24, 2007 8:20 AM

I wonder about the ark ships that were used in the exodus from Earth-That-Was... they'd have to be huge, almost like small space colony habitats. Would they still be in existence in the 'Verse, or cannibalized for materials? If intact, would they still be used and contain communities? If so, were they considered for inclusion in possible future episodes?

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Sunday, June 24, 2007 1:20 PM

CAPTAINCOUPI

Hmm, I suppose there is a quandary there. They would be useful habitats to live in, but once planets had been terraformed would they just be cannibalized for the technology and resources they hold. Maybe just the shells remain in orbit around some world. They might be useful evacuation craft should terraforming not hold on a planet or moon.

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Monday, June 25, 2007 1:11 AM

MRSHINYVERSE

I think that some of these ark ships survived to be used by the alliance for sending large numbers of settlers to new planets.

Moving 30 million people to Miranda would have been a massive task. The number of ships it would have taken if it wasn’t one of or a number of these ark ships would be extreme.

Another reason I think they’re still around in the verse is the sheer size of the Reaver’s main ship in the battle over Mr Universe’s planet. It dwarfs the alliance’s main ship and makes Serenity look like an ant. It could have been that it was an ark ship or a smaller version dropping more people off on Miranda or had stayed in orbit after dropping people off which the Reaver’s boarded and took control of.

I could believe this as I can’t see the Reaver’s being able to build something that big from scratch. I believe they can alter ships, adding bits etc but wouldn’t have the ability or resources to build such a ship.

Anyone have any thoughts on the above (or able to understand what I’ve just wrote as I’ve lost myself after reading it again)

MrShinyVerse

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Monday, June 25, 2007 1:32 AM

SISTER

I understand what you've written, and I agree. Some of the ark ships would have survived the initial colonization of terraformed planets. If anyone has read novels by Anne McCaffrey or Andre Norton; some of the storylines included embryo ships where large animals (horses, cattle, etc.) were shipped as embryos and later gestated in tanks making the transport of larger creatures take up a lot less space.

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Monday, June 25, 2007 8:59 AM

KOIPOND

people could have been shipped either frozen (ala Serenity) or in a state of living death (ala Ariel/The Message). they'd use less air/water/food/space allowing the same sized ship to carry more people.

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Monday, June 25, 2007 11:43 AM

ANNUETTE

I agree with all the stuff above especially the cannabalisign for parts, but just also wanted to add that it's possible that there could be one or two knocking around in or as, museums. However huge, however much needed, people as a whole are fascinated with history and how they came to be. I could see a couple being restored and maybe archived as exhibits or something.

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Monday, June 25, 2007 12:07 PM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.

Quote:
Originally posted by koipond:
people could have been shipped either frozen (ala Serenity) or in a state of living death (ala Ariel/The Message). they'd use less air/water/food/space allowing the same sized ship to carry more people.

Must dispute that with the info from the Serenity Visual Companion's "Brief History of the Universe circa 2507" where it says an entire generation never saw the outside of a spaceship.
I'm betting that when they landed on the newly terraformed worlds they needed all the technology they could get until things really got moving with building more. And then they might have used the older technology to build smaller ships for those who wanted to settle on other worlds after things were settled on Shinon and Londinium. Bottom line, I don't think they could afford to waste anything like that when they arrived. The ark ships are broken down, scattered, gone. No ark museum, no reusing to transport collonists, just broken down and rebuilt into something else.

Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so.
A troll's hair is still pointy, even when it's wearing a hat.

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Tuesday, June 26, 2007 7:37 AM

ANNUETTE

The questions you've asked about these ships has really given me some annoying plot bunnies for a gen fic i was writing, mind if i explore their concepts some more in it?

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Tuesday, June 26, 2007 8:15 AM

JONGSSTRAW

Quote:
Originally posted by MrShinyVerse:
Moving 30 million people to Miranda would have been a massive task. The number of ships it would have taken if it wasn’t one of or a number of these ark ships would be extreme.

Speakin' of Miranda...what ever happened to those folks? I've been calling there ( long distance wave charges apply) for 12 years but can't reach anyone. Who do I report that to? I'm worried about my relatives....There's lots of folks here also who haven't ever heard from their friends and family who went to Miranda. I know that Ma Alliance Bell is not the best service provider, but 12 years and no contact!?...somethin's rotten.

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Tuesday, June 26, 2007 12:24 PM

MOOSE

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Speakin' of Miranda...what ever happened to those folks? I've been calling there ( long distance wave charges apply) for 12 years but can't reach anyone. Who do I report that to? I'm worried about my relatives....There's lots of folks here also who haven't ever heard from their friends and family who went to Miranda..

Where do you all live? We'll have some agents stop by to make a report. You'll know them by the blue gloves they wear...

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Wednesday, June 27, 2007 8:31 PM

BRINGITBACK

I can picture an amazing ep when the crew of Serenity come across the location of an abandoned 'ark' ship.

Hell...Ive been thinking for days how Joss takes the series/movie after Serenity.

I would love to see something happen that revives the independants and we have a few seasons of the crew doing 'smuggling jobs' to help build a rebellion.

With Rivers improving mental state and her knowledge of 'every diplomatic and military operation' she would be the perfect vessel for the browncoats to make another run.

Fox.... I hate you

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Thursday, June 28, 2007 5:41 AM

IREMIST

I think about the same thing, and wayyyy more than I care to admit.I don't read fanfics so if I take anyone's ideas I appologize...

Here's where I go with it...
First episode would of course have to deal with Zoe. If you remember, she and Wash got it on after the reavers attacked (edited)during the payroll heist (not the end), so I think she might have gotten pregnant. That being said, I don't see her living in the same bed and on the same ship she so happily shared with Wash. Don't know what her roots were, but I think she would go back to 'em..
Second thing......
I think that some past acquaintance of Book's would show up, askin' question's as to his death , and maybe we'd learn one or two things there...
I also don't see Kaylee and Simon's relationship lastin' through the end of season 2...sorry folks... I think they are just too different to form anything lasting. Still can't put my finger on where or what Simon or River would be up to, but I see them eventually splitting up for short periods with River telling Simon "I love you too, but I need some space"
Jayne would of course be in his bunk.... a lot...cleaning his guns, you know...
I think Mal and Inara would continue to be Mal and Inara...
I'm also not so sure Mal would be so quick to take on the whole Alliance, at least for a couple episodes (maybe he'd be satisfied with the blow he struck for a while)
and Serenity would continue to have some interesting guests..Some things just shouldn't change!

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Thursday, June 28, 2007 5:47 AM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.

Quote:
Originally posted by Iremist:
I think she might have gotten pregnant.

This is about the only one I don't agree with. And what do you mean they 'got it on after the reavers attacked'? As far as I saw, they didn't get it on throughout the whole movie, let alone after the reavers attacked and Wash was kind of, um, dead.

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Thursday, June 28, 2007 7:32 AM

IREMIST

Sorry, my brain has a tendency to fill in the gaps....They didn't spell it out so much as their body language gave clues. Speaking as a married woman, I can say that Wash's and Zoe's posture after they got back from the payroll heist was, well...cuddely. Not to mention I'm sure the trip to Belaraphon(sp?) took more than a day or two. Also, when they go to meet Fanty and Mingo Mal took Jayne to meet them and the only reason he would do that was if Wash and Zoe wanted some down time... Also in "Those Left Behind" River said "smells like sex in here" while they were in the cockpit so I'm pretty sure they get to it anytime the mood strikes. Also, I could see Zoe arguing that they really came close to dying and she didn't want to die before she had his child, but that's pure conjecture... It's OK if you didn't see the same things I did, I love it that everybody here sees different things.

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Thursday, June 28, 2007 3:37 PM

BONANACROIN

Just to get back on the original subject for a minute. (sorry missus

). I have read the R.P.G. of Serenity and if the first person to say someting is the expert till proven otherwise, then there is one ark ship on Bernadette; the first planet terra-formed, in the city of New Paris, and is the largest museum of Earth-That-Was and Exodus artifacts in the Verse. It is supposed to be five times larger than an Aliance crusier.
I like the idea of an ark floating in space for a story idea. Here is a possible premise: The crew of ______ gets a blip on the far reaches of their radar out in the black and decide to investigate. At first they think it is a transport, after a day of it getting bigger and it not getting any closer they think it might be a cruiser gone astray, after a week they find an ark. Now what are they gonna do with this? Are they going to loot it, try to fix it, call it in? What are they going to find on there? A whole civilization of Morlocks, the contents of Fort Knox, enough beans bullets and bandaids to start another Unification War? I wonder.

I dyed my brown coat black for those whom have gone before.

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Thursday, June 28, 2007 4:14 PM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.

Quote:
Originally posted by Iremist:
Sorry, my brain has a tendency to fill in the gaps....They didn't spell it out so much as their body language gave clues. Speaking as a married woman, I can say that Wash's and Zoe's posture after they got back from the payroll heist was, well...cuddely. Not to mention I'm sure the trip to Belaraphon(sp?) took more than a day or two. Also, when they go to meet Fanty and Mingo Mal took Jayne to meet them and the only reason he would do that was if Wash and Zoe wanted some down time... Also in "Those Left Behind" River said "smells like sex in here" while they were in the cockpit so I'm pretty sure they get to it anytime the mood strikes. Also, I could see Zoe arguing that they really came close to dying and she didn't want to die before she had his child, but that's pure conjecture... It's OK if you didn't see the same things I did, I love it that everybody here sees different things.

Okay, you make good points. Although I don't think they were meeting at Belaraphon (that's the world from Trash, but maybe I'll watch the movie again to see where the Maindenhead bar is) there likely was a trip of a day or two. And in Those Left Behind there was a bit more than River just pointing it out. I think Wash and Zoe liked the bridge. Arguing for a baby after near death? Viable, but keep in mind that most birth control isn't going to go away in an instant, and that far in the future it seems like they have some very very effective means, since Wash never seems concerned about an accidental baby, so even if he agreed during the movie, there wouldn't have been time. (in fact, in an early early draft of the script, there's apparently an exchange during the climctic space battle where Zoe says "If we get through this, you and I are going to make a baby." and Wash responds with "Let's make a lot." but he didn't get through it and the line was cut anyway.) And there's an unfilmed bit of script in the Maidenhead where Mal suggests Wash and Zoe go get a nice romantic meal, so that's what I assume they were doing there. Not to say they would do nothing else, but ya know.

As for the RPG book, I don't consider that canon because Joss and Co. had nothing to do with it. The comments about the ark ship just prove it doesn't always know what it's talking about. A random ark ship floating around makes no sense, for one, and Sihnon and Londinium were the first worlds terraformed and colonized; it's in the Serenity Visual Companion.

I highly suggest that, even if you can't afford to buy it, everyone go and read pages 12-15 of the Serenity Visual Companion. Three pages gives a whole hell of a lot of info on background, etc. There's also a nifty little chart of some of the planets, their names and what they look like. It's a really valuable three pages.

So, I still don't think that the massive resource of an ark ship would be left to drift around or turned into a museum when what was truly needed was housing. I know all things in the verse don't always make logical sense, but I still apply logic until the canon says otherwise.

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Thursday, June 28, 2007 4:55 PM

IREMIST

Picky, picky!

Ok, I asked hubby which planet the M.head Bar was on and he says Beaumonde(Sp?) I was close... they both have a B.....

Yes, I agree they both really enjoyed the *ahem* cockpit.

Also, I think If they had spaceships, they also had good fertility drugs. I can reverse MY birth control with one visit to the doc. And maybe they cut the line about baby miaking so they could leave that as a possibile storyline in the future...

My argument for the ark floating around reverts to Star Trek, 'cause they always find ships adrift, by hook, by crook or by space phenomenon. There's always one ship that never gets where it's goin'.

Bonanacroin says;

Sihnon and Londinium were never terre-formed, colonized first yes, but they were found like that.(class M)

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Thursday, June 28, 2007 5:24 PM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.

Quote:
Originally posted by Iremist:
Sihnon and Londinium were never terre-formed, colonized first yes, but they were found like that.(class M)

No, they weren't.

"A nearby star was located, home to dozens of planets and hundreds of moons, almost all of which had enough mass and solidity to be templates for new earths. Through giant atmosphere processing plants, terraforming technologies, gravity regulation, and the introduction of every known form of Earthlife, each planet became its own little (or in some cases, huge) Earth. Every person willing and able to leave the Earth migrated to the new system. An entire generation never even saw the outside of a spaceship, the journey took so long. But the planets were ready for habitation (despite the odd quirk or miscalculation on a few) and civilazation as we know it began to rebuild. The work started on the two largest, most central planets, SIHNON and LONDINIUM."

-This was written by Joss, so it trumps anything else.

Those two were way too huge to have needed no work; their gravity would crush a human form. Plus they were 'most central' so no way were they not pretty damn hot before some work was done on them. Again, logic.

Yeah, I am pretty picky. 'Obsessive perfectionist' has been used to describe me.

Possible that one of the ships didn't make it to where it was going, but if that's the case, I think it would be too far away to be found by anyone. Remember how long the journey was; a breakdown was probably years away from help.

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Sunday, July 1, 2007 8:00 AM

BONANACROIN

I do not claim to have read the book, lets get that out of the way first. But I would think that if the planet Earth could not sustain life anymore two options would be open; the first most logical is to find a suitable planet no matter how far it is an settle there. The second is to build these huge ark ships without tested technolgies and send as much as 90% of the best and brightest of the population to a far of cluster of rocks with the one goal of make this planet forming idea a reality even though we couldn't make this stuff work in our solar system. Huh. Rant over, back to reality.
If the terra-form tech was perfected on Earth then Mars or one of Jupiters moons would have been colonized first. The word of Joss not withstanding I would think that the reason that that particular solar system was chosen was because it had two class-M planets and a host of other astral bodies that we could experiment on. Not because Nasa found a bunch of planets close together out in the middle of no where.

I dyed my brown coat black for those whom have gone befor...bwah.

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Sunday, July 1, 2007 10:45 AM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.

Well like I've said not everything that's canon makes the best sense. Firefly is kind of light on the science, there's no denying.
Here's my theory, though:
Terraforming technologies were tested first on Mars, or maybe our moon. It didn't quite work, but they were able to refine it, test it elsewhere (like Europa, or maybe the planets closer to the sun) and get it right, but the entire population of an over-populated Earth couldn't go to Mars, or Europa, or mercury, or anywhere small, so they looked for somewhere big, somewhere they could have nearly unlimited space. I think that, when they found it, they didn't immediately send out the ark ships, but some smaller versions with the terraforming crews and equipment. While those were on their way (and, I would think, sending back reports however they could) the colony ships were built and the massive undertaking that was the exodus was organized. They took off after the terraforming ships, hence how planets ready for habitation could have been waiting for them.
(And I'm betting that at that point in history there was tested technologies for spaceships, they just had to work them on a much bigger scale. If it was just a wing and a prayer, they never would have made it.)
That's what makes sense to me, personally. Yes, it would be logical to find class M planets to migrate to, but they couldn't or didn't. Sihnon and Londinium were just too huge. Even if they had a proper atmosphere, their gravity would need adjusting and the proper plant life would need to be introduced. So I think smaller ships full of equipment and crews were sent while the bigger ships were built. Why they started in the core rather than, maybe, the first planet they came to? That I still can't explain, but there it is.

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