In earnest, Mal: why’d you bring her back on? by Romanceguru

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

In earnest, Mal: why’d you bring her back on?

POSTED BY: ROMANCEGURU
UPDATED: Saturday, December 15, 2007 22:17
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 3991
PAGE 1 of 1

Thursday, December 13, 2007 7:06 PM

In re-watching Serenity (for the umpteenth time) I found myself wondering the above as well.

It’s odd that Mal and crew (with the exception of Kaylee) didn’t even blink an eye when Simon and River left of their own accord, but after Mal witnesses that damage River does first hand, he picks her up without hesitation and brings her back to Serenity.

When Jayne asks, “In earnest, Mal, why’d you bring her back on?” We get only a look.

I’m curious to know, what do you think Mal was thinking at that moment, or even in the Maidenhead? Or was he simply not thinking at all?

---

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, December 13, 2007 7:20 PM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.

I think he was shocked, I think he realized in that moment that something was really wrong, and I think he cared for River. He'd always known the Alliance had messed her up, played with her brain, and then he sees her go monkeyshit and goes "Ooooh... I should help her." Even though she was ready to kill him, even though he didn't really know what was going on, he knew that something was terribly wrong. And looking at her passed out at a few simple words, while the shock was still basically fresh, had to have touched something in him.

I am selfish, impatient, and a little insecure. I make mistakes. I am out of control. And sometimes I'm a little hard to handle. But if you can't handle me at my worst, you sure as hell don't deserve me at my best.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, December 13, 2007 7:53 PM

PLATONIST

I wondered about this for the longest time too.

Mal gives Zoe a look after Jayne's comment.

In an odd way River has become crew, even if Mal is in denial and doesn't on the surface seem to care.

She needed help and Mal doesn't leave crew behind.

And by the end, they've become family.

Anyone else? on this one?

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, December 14, 2007 2:40 AM

JONGSSTRAW

Mals deep glance at Zoe when that question is asked references the conversation they had about the man Mal pushed off the mule and shot before the Reavers could violate him. Yes...Mal gave Zoe a snappy little answer to no man being left behind, but I think it bothered him plenty. He was not about to leave another person behind in a dangerous situation.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, December 14, 2007 3:50 AM

MAL4PREZ

Doesn't Joss talk about this in the original DVD commentary? I recall him saying that he kind of overlooked that moment, the one when Mal picks River up in the Maidenhead. I think Joss's take was that it's just how it is: Mal wouldn't leave River behind in that situation. It's not in his nature. He likely didn't even think about it himself, not till he got to the ship.

And that's what Mal talked to Book about - he said he had an out. Said he could have left her behind. I think he's a little shocked himself that he didn't, that his instinct was the opposite.

I think it's part of his arc, discovering that he is a decent man after all.

-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, December 14, 2007 5:04 AM

FLATTOP

I figure that at some level, Mal knew that River represented everything that's wrong with the Alliance.
Take a person, seduce them with the promise of fulfilling their greatest desire; education for River, for a planet it might be... health care, irrigation, whatever. Then take away everything that makes that person a person, an individual capable of making their own way, and force them to be an admittedly very capable tool to be used when where and how they see fit.
That ain't right.
The Alliance did far worse than break River. They made her wrong, and I figure Mal'd be damned before he let the Alliance get her back to do who knows what further damage to her.
There's been speculation that River had already been on a few covert missions (other threads), but perhaps not. Imagine the damage to her psyche if she'd actually carried out multiple cold blooded assinations? Gain trust, act all nice and as if she cares, and then *snap*... Mal, Zoey & Jayne have killed plenty, but not folk they were pretending to like. Sure, Mal killed Tracey, but let's face it, he had it comin' and everyone knew it.

Mal's reason for dropping them was an argument with Simon. If River had asked to stay, I've no doubt that Mal would have dropped Simon & kept her. Seeing River in such deep trouble trumped his feelings against Simon.

----------
Remember to vote! http://www.usbmicro.com/misc

Sign up NOW! http://fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=11&t=25704
More Information: http://76thbattalion.homestead.com/index.html

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, December 14, 2007 5:38 AM

SHINYSEVEN2

One reason why I love the series more than the BDM is precisely that this seemed contrived to me. Of course, if Mal hadn't brought her back, there would be no movie.

However, I bet *River* wasn't surprised when he did.

I also felt that the Operative's change of heart at the end was unmotivated and not very credible. At my first viewing, I thought that Mal paralyzed the Operative and left him in front of the Signal to watch it for eternity (...which would have been ironic if it kept the Operative from rescuing Mal...) and the Operative sure was in better shape than someone who lost a fight that drastic should have been.

But even if the Operative had been prepared to be such a good sport when defeated by an honorable enemy I find it hard to believe that the Alliance would say, sure, check into the hospital, guys, and we'll give you the stuff you need to fix your ship (which you couldn't afford to fix when it was just, y'know, broken and not smashed to bits).

And, unless they plan to spend the rest of their lives doing strictly legit jobs, painting "Serenity" on the side is heartwarming but not terribly practical.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, December 14, 2007 6:07 AM

MAL4PREZ

Quote:
Originally posted by shinyseven2:
One reason why I love the series more than the BDM is precisely that this seemed contrived to me.

Yes, much contrived. Although, I can see that such a strong believer as the Operative may have a change of heart that goes 100%. Have you read Malcolm X's autobiography? One thing I got out of that was how this man was so fully and completely into whatever he was into at each stage of his life, even though he shifted greatly when he had reason to reconsider his beliefs. It been my experience in my life too, that strong believers can have that kind of swing.

Quote:
Operative sure was in better shape than someone who lost a fight that drastic should have been.

Hey, Mal got run through by a sword! That kinda thing killed Mr U, but barely slowed Mal down. Gotta love Hollywood.

Quote:
I find it hard to believe that the Alliance would say, sure, check into the hospital, guys, and we'll give you the stuff you need to fix your ship (which you couldn't afford to fix when it was just, y'know, broken and not smashed to bits).

I don't think the Alliance had anything to with it. As I interpret it, the Operative did that all on his own authority, not even telling his superiors what he was up to.

Quote:
And, unless they plan to spend the rest of their lives doing strictly legit jobs, painting "Serenity" on the side is heartwarming but not terribly practical.

Very true. But hey, with some details it's best just to let it be a movie and not reality. A movie called Serenity. Gotta finish it how it started, with a shot of the ship's logo, just for closure.

-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, December 14, 2007 7:39 AM

SHINYSEVEN2

Mal4Prez:
I have read The Autobiography of Malcolm X, and wonder if it had some influence on the naming of "our" Malcolm.

And our captain looks in pretty rocky shape when he stumbles back to his crew, so I allow some leeway for "survival of non-survivable injuries."

I thought about the Operative doing it on his own initiative but I couldn't believe that he had *that* much power all on his own.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, December 14, 2007 7:54 AM

CHRISISALL

When the Operative asked Mal if he was prepared to die for his beliefs, I freaked- Mal didn't fully expect to live through that one, but his best shot proved to be enough, much to Mal's surprise, I conjure.

It's why I love it Chrisisall

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, December 14, 2007 7:54 AM

FARFLY

I didn't see any problem with what went on after the encounters at Mr. Universe's planet. No mention was made as to how long afterward that took place. Mr. U was stabbed in the chest, Mal in the left side (as is common when that character must continue in the movie), the operative probably just had his shoulders dislocated. But the recoveries of Zoe and Simon would have taken quite awhile, and the amount of damage to the ship makes me suspect that several months had passed, so the Operative looking healthy does not seem unusual to me.

As for bringing River back on the ship, it seemed to me that there was a lot of trust between them since at the end of the bar fight scene they each had the other at gunpoint. Everything River had done in that scene seemed to happen quickly and by instinct, not planning, yet she saw Mal's gun pointed at her and did not shoot him.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, December 14, 2007 7:59 AM

SHINYSEVEN2

Farfly: You're right, I didn't make myself clear. I meant when the Operative tells the soldiers to stand down. (What do you call the place where they all are, anyway?)

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, December 14, 2007 9:04 AM

EARTHGIRL

(haven't read all the posts, so forgive if I'm rehashing)

on Haven
Mal: "I coulda left her there. I had an out. "
------->not exact quote, but gets the gist across

Book: "It's not your way, Mal"

'nuf explanation for me

Shiny stuff for not a lot o coin:
www.cafepress.com/FireflyCargoBay

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, December 14, 2007 9:07 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by farfly:
I didn't see any problem with what went on after the encounters at Mr. Universe's planet. No mention was made as to how long afterward that took place. Mr. U was stabbed in the chest, Mal in the left side (as is common when that character must continue in the movie), the operative probably just had his shoulders dislocated. But the recoveries of Zoe and Simon would have taken quite awhile, and the amount of damage to the ship makes me suspect that several months had passed, so the Operative looking healthy does not seem unusual to me.

As for bringing River back on the ship, it seemed to me that there was a lot of trust between them since at the end of the bar fight scene they each had the other at gunpoint. Everything River had done in that scene seemed to happen quickly and by instinct, not planning, yet she saw Mal's gun pointed at her and did not shoot him.

All excellent points, Far.

Best movie ever made Chrisisall

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, December 14, 2007 1:07 PM

RALLEM

I think Shepherd Book explained why Mal brought the siblings back on board the best, when he said something to the effect, "It wasn't your way." I think Mal's look to Zoe was also best explained when Mal answered Book, "I have a way?"

I think that Mal is the father figure of this family, not the crew where River is very much a part of it. In the episode Safe, just before the crew returns to save the siblings River tells Simon that father was coming to save them. BDH!

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, December 14, 2007 1:24 PM

FREELANCERTEX

"It's just that...in a time of war, we would've never left a man stranded."

Not that I'm saying what happened in the Maidenhead was a battle (kind of one sided), but it was enough of a dangerous situation that the old Sergeant Reynolds probably kicked in. he had to make a decision fast, and although he can be a hardass, he's not the type to leave a helpless girl stranded (unconscious=helpless). besides, he knew she had trouble with the Alliance, and knowing how he feels about the Alliance, i don't think he'd leave someone for them.

__________________________
Have you ever wondered why in a dream you can touch a falling sky?
Or fly to the heavens that watch over you?

"I am a leaf on the wind, watch how I soar."

A man is least himself when he speaks in his own person. Give him a mask and he will show you his true self.

You can't take the sky from me...

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, December 14, 2007 4:11 PM

NBZ

It was instinct IMO. "We need to get out of here. ALL of us."

First priority is to leave the crime scene. (maybe he should have got the feeds first?) Everything else can be sorted out later.

I never questioned til I heard the commentary and Joss mentioned he was asked the "why" of it. It felt totally in character.

Adding to that, the Tams had only been separated for what? half an hour? Not what I would call a success.

A part of Mal's "self-denial" thoughts of letting Simon go/pushing him was that Simon should now be better able to take care of himself. No longer a "babe in a basket". IMO part of the original reason he offered Simon a place on the ship in the first place was because he thought he could do a better job.

I always saw his glance at Zoe back on the ship as a question. "Do I need to explain myself? To You too?". Her opinion matters. If she wanted an explanation he would have to think of one pronto. Otherwise the rest could be ignored. (Like in Trash - until Zoe signs up there simply is no job. It don't matter too much what the rest may say.)

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, December 15, 2007 2:12 AM

LWAVES

I gotta agree with it being just the way he was. He wouldn't have left her behind unless there really was no other choice.

Plus I always felt that he never really had a problem with River, and saw her as somewhat of an innocent. Yes she could cause trouble, be annoying, loud or whatever, and could bring the Alliance down on them at any moment, but I always felt that he blamed Simon for that, not River. It was Simon that brought her aboard, Simon he always argued with. And most importantly it was Simon he kicked off in the BDM, River went because her brother went.
I also refer to the scene when they have the cattle on board in the series. He tells Simon to keep her quiet coz she's scaring them. He then asks how she is and that she seems to be getting worse. To me he seemed genuinely to care for her, was concerned for her wellfare. There are other instances but I can't remember them all now.

"I don't believe in suicide, but if you'd like to try it it might cheer me up to watch."

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, December 15, 2007 2:36 AM

FREMDFIRMA

There's also that Mal isn't *entirely* a bonehead.

Tell me, folk.. what *happens* to people whom the alliance believes she's been in close, comfy contact with.. like, you know, those cops on ariel, for instance ?

Now, if she got away and pulled a fade, that's one thing, but leaving her on the floor where she was *definately* gonna get bagged, and thus finger Mal and company for that kind of warm, fluffy... might we even say.. special attention from the Feds ?

Nuh-uh, no way... and had he thought it through, which he wouldn't cause he's not like that, the minute THAT idea occured to Jayne, he'd have picked her up too (but prolly push her out the airlock later,lol).

Basically, it's criminal habit, like pickin up your shell casings, or wiping off the prints - you never hand the cops a gimme, you know ?

-F

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, December 15, 2007 1:02 PM

PHYRELIGHT

Quote:
Originally posted by Romanceguru:
In re-watching Serenity (for the umpteenth time) I found myself wondering the above as well.

It’s odd that Mal and crew (with the exception of Kaylee) didn’t even blink an eye when Simon and River left of their own accord, but after Mal witnesses that damage River does first hand, he picks her up without hesitation and brings her back to Serenity.

When Jayne asks, “In earnest, Mal, why’d you bring her back on?” We get only a look.

I’m curious to know, what do you think Mal was thinking at that moment, or even in the Maidenhead? Or was he simply not thinking at all?

---

Well, Mal isn't even certain why he brought her back on either, which is why we only get a confused look. But, Mal is a good man (despite what he tells people), and he was acting on instinct. It wasn't in his nature to just leave River behind. He feels for her. As a matter of fact, he has more in common with her than anyone else on ship. For example: both lives were destroyed by the Alliance, they're both orphans, they lost something that was essential to their existence (his faith, her mind), and so forth.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, December 15, 2007 4:42 PM

MAL4PREZ

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Tell me, folk.. what *happens* to people whom the alliance believes she's been in close, comfy contact with.. like, you know, those cops on ariel, for instance ?

Now see, as much as it's true that association with River would be dangerous, I don't think that's at all what motivated Mal. As Phyrelight says, I don't think he thought at all. River fell, was lying there helpless, so of course he picked her up. I think that's the whole part of the "wouldn't have left a man behind" line that Zoe pulled on him - in the heat of the moment, he won't leave one of his own behind. That's his way, as Book tells him.

Also, I doubt Mal ever even knew about what the blue hand guys did on Ariel. They surely didn't advertise that they murdered everyone who talked to River, and Serenity got out of there as soon as everyone was on board. During the scene in the Maidenhead, Mal had no reason to suspect the full danger River represented.

-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, December 15, 2007 10:17 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Point, I agree, he didn't really *think*, he just reacted - but instinctually he had the angel on one shoulder going "oh come on, we can't just LEAVE her here, she's helpless and messed up!" and he had the devil on the other shoulder going "Dude, clean house!, if you leave here there in about four hours they're gonna be lookin for YOU!" and so his criminal instincts and nobler ones reached simultaneous unity.

That cheery facade does hide a dark side, mind you, and I think the greater part of him WANTED to do it, sure... but I bet that pragmatism was in there somewhere too, just for a split.

If he'd actually thought it over and all, which we all know he didn't - he woulda put it to Jayne..
"Leave her there ? so she gets pinched and fingers us - and then WE'RE fugitives ? how does that help us, Jayne ?.. ditchin em only works if they get away."

I'm not especially fond of the movie plot, mind you - but that act was totally in character for Mal from both moral directions, is all I am sayin.

-F

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

YOUR OPTIONS

SHARE THREAD

NEW POSTS TODAY

USER	POST DATE

USER

POST DATE