GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

The alliance and England

POSTED BY: CHRONICTHEHEDGEHOG
UPDATED: Sunday, November 14, 2004 01:18
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Tuesday, April 27, 2004 5:33 AM

CHRONICTHEHEDGEHOG


Does anyone else think that there may have been some sort of merger between England and America before the forming of the Alliance?
I find it strange that it's the Anglo-Sino Alliance (Anglo meaning English) and the head western planet is Londinium (London being the capitol of England). With Joss being the Anglophile that he is, I wouldn't be suprised if there was something of this nature in the show's history...



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Tuesday, April 27, 2004 6:09 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.


Never really seen anything to suggest that America and Great Britain merged in the Firefly 'verse.

Anything is possible I suppose. I hope we get some history for the Alliance in the future.

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."


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Tuesday, April 27, 2004 6:24 AM

ZOID



chronicthehedgehog:

Too bloody right! The sodding British have taken over the universe, in unholy alliance with the inscrutable Chinese!
(zoid takes his medications and the room returns to its normal, floor-down orientation)

Just poking fun at all our new British 'coats, flush from their R2 DVD purchases. Nice to know Yanks haven't grown a decent sense of humor, huh?

Seriously, though, the name is "Anglo-Sino" Alliance. You've got a point... I just hope it doesn't get too Star Wars 'Empire'-like, wherein all the baddies have 'Oxbridge' accents. Have Chinese soldiery ever worn blue uniforms? If so, when mixed with British redcoats, you'd get 'Purplebellys'.

Just thinkin' (no matter how hard I've tried to stop).


Respectfully,

zoid
_________________________________________________

(Of River) "Little Sis? I could see big things for her all along. Her and her brother both. I always knew they'd be worth something, y'know?"

- Jayne Cobb, Game Warden and co-proprietor, "Cretaceous Park", Hera; from A Child Shall Lead Them: A History of the Second War of Independence Wilkins, Richard

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Tuesday, April 27, 2004 8:59 AM

GUNHAND


Quote:

Originally posted by zoid:

chronicthehedgehog:

Too bloody right! The sodding British have taken over the universe, in unholy alliance with the inscrutable Chinese!
(zoid takes his medications and the room returns to its normal, floor-down orientation)

Just poking fun at all our new British 'coats, flush from their R2 DVD purchases. Nice to know Yanks haven't grown a decent sense of humor, huh?

Seriously, though, the name is "Anglo-Sino" Alliance. You've got a point... I just hope it doesn't get too Star Wars 'Empire'-like, wherein all the baddies have 'Oxbridge' accents. Have Chinese soldiery ever worn blue uniforms? If so, when mixed with British redcoats, you'd get 'Purplebellys'.

Just thinkin' (no matter how hard I've tried to stop).


Respectfully,

zoid
_________________________________________________

(Of River) "Little Sis? I could see big things for her all along. Her and her brother both. I always knew they'd be worth something, y'know?"

- Jayne Cobb, Game Warden and co-proprietor, "Cretaceous Park", Hera; from A Child Shall Lead Them: A History of the Second War of Independence Wilkins, Richard



I wondered about this as well, especially given that Londinium is the "western" capital of the Alliance, culturally western that is not geographically.

We know that Brits made it to the verse, Badger and his very fine hat making that abundently clear. Dyson's Colony? Now I'll have to be looking that up, seems to be populated by Cockney folk.

I think there was a merger, the Alliance flag could support that because when you look at the right side you have the obvious US stripes but the left side is a plain blue field. No starts to go with the stripes, now that could be from slopiness (doubtful because of how Joss does things), a desire not to completely break the laws of vexilogy (doubtful because the flag breaks every other law of good flagmaking) or, and here's my take on it, the field isn't the part where the stars go on a US flag, but it's the blue field that's the base of the Union Jack.

Why aren't the associated crosses on there to make it look more Jack like? My bet is because that since the UK and US had some sort of merger that the crosses signifying the union of the countries that make up the UK seemed to be less important, to the flagmakers at least. The British types could just say the stripes on the "US side" were the ones from the Union Jack spread flat to show equality, no matter what the Americans seemed to think they were, or somesuch. And that's my explaination.

As far as uniforms go, very good point. The Imperial Chinese Army wore cornflower blue uniforms up until 1908, and during World War II the Nationalists also wore blue uniforms at the beginning. So that could be where Purplebelly comes from. That and the fact that the Union soldiers were commonly called Bluebellies by the Confederates, so that could be an old, old term for the Alliance troops that the Independents ressurected.



"Pain is scary..."

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Tuesday, April 27, 2004 9:52 AM

PURPLEBELLY


"Some sort of merger" ?

Try takeover in the middle of the 20th Century. And it didn't cost much, because all there was left was bankrupt stock.

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Tuesday, April 27, 2004 12:25 PM

EMBERS


Well Joss went to school in England...and I think he kind of merges the US & GB to some extent in his view of the world in 500 years...
I mean, you can't leave out Canada and Australia
(and numerous other English speaking countries)
once you wipe out the Earth
(what happened to the Earth BTW?)
I think it all blends into a conglomerate....

500 years is a long time, and a lot changes...

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Tuesday, April 27, 2004 5:46 PM

ANKHAGOGO


Quote:

I wondered about this as well, especially given that Londinium is the "western" capital of the Alliance, culturally western that is not geographically.


Where did we find out that Londinium is the western capital of the Alliance? What did I miss? I'm not s'posed to miss stuff!

..except, you know -- the show.



"We're just happy to be doin' good works."

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Tuesday, April 27, 2004 7:28 PM

SIGMANUNKI


Quote:

Originally posted by Gunhand:
I think there was a merger, the Alliance flag could support that because when you look at the right side you have the obvious US stripes but the left side is a plain blue field. No starts to go with the stripes, now that could be from slopiness (doubtful because of how Joss does things), a desire not to completely break the laws of vexilogy (doubtful because the flag breaks every other law of good flagmaking) or, and here's my take on it, the field isn't the part where the stars go on a US flag, but it's the blue field that's the base of the Union Jack.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but, don't those stars represent the states. If they do I don't think that a flag would be able to hold all of the stars to represent all of the colonized worlds. It might be more of a practical thing.

Quote:

Originally posted by EMBERS:
I mean, you can't leave out Canada and Australia


True


Quote:

Originally posted by EMBERS:
once you wipe out the Earth
(what happened to the Earth BTW?)


What I got from the mentions of the earth that was, was that no-one knows where it is. I figure that people left earth for some reason and over the years forgot where exactly it was and now it's just the stuff of legend.

I have only watch the series once through though. So, if someone could give my little theory a yah or nay.

----
"Canada being mad at you is like Mr. Rogers throwing a brick through your window." -Jon Stewart, The Daily Show
"Also, I can kill you with my brain." -River

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Tuesday, April 27, 2004 8:16 PM

PURPLEBELLY


Joss Whedon is a Wykehamist, which is to say he attended Winchester College. While this is geographically located in England it is not part of the common experience of the English education system. Its culture is probably best regarded as part of an education elite funded by the upper middle class of many countries.

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Wednesday, April 28, 2004 1:41 AM

LTNOWIS


Quote:

the head western planet is Londinium (London being the capitol of England).

Wasn't Londinium an ancient Roman city? Then it would go with other ancient names like Hera and Persephone.

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Wednesday, April 28, 2004 2:15 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.


Gunhand wrote:

Quote:

I think there was a merger, the Alliance flag could support that because when you look at the right side you have the obvious US stripes but the left side is a plain blue field. No starts to go with the stripes, now that could be from slopiness (doubtful because of how Joss does things), a desire not to completely break the laws of vexilogy (doubtful because the flag breaks every other law of good flagmaking) or, and here's my take on it, the field isn't the part where the stars go on a US flag, but it's the blue field that's the base of the Union Jack.

Why aren't the associated crosses on there to make it look more Jack like? My bet is because that since the UK and US had some sort of merger that the crosses signifying the union of the countries that make up the UK seemed to be less important, to the flagmakers at least. The British types could just say the stripes on the "US side" were the ones from the Union Jack spread flat to show equality, no matter what the Americans seemed to think they were, or somesuch. And that's my explaination.



I still think the blue field of the Alliance flag is representative of the blue field of the American flag. The Union Jack is primarily a blue field, w/ the red stripes of the flags of St George & St Patrick over the white stripes of the flag of St Andrew.

It could be that the U.K. & the U.S. united in a single alliance of some sort prior to the Chinese joining the Alliance. No way to know for sure. The word Anglo would seem to indicate that Britain is included in some way.

LtNowis wrote:

Quote:

Wasn't Londinium an ancient Roman city? Then it would go with other ancient names like Hera and Persephone.


Londinium Augusta was a Hadrianic Legionary Fort in England. You can check it out here:

http://www.roman-britain.org/places/londinium.htm

Interesting that Londinium was a frontier fort for the Romans in Brittania and it is a frontier world in Firefly.


"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."


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Sunday, November 14, 2004 1:18 AM

SKYWALKEN


Quote:

Originally posted by chronicthehedgehog:
merger between England and America before the forming of the Alliance



I think that IS probably what Joss has in his vision of Firefly's backstory.

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