GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Looking for pseudo-Serenity experience? Try this...

POSTED BY: ZOID
UPDATED: Tuesday, October 5, 2004 02:15
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VIEWED: 1784
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Saturday, October 2, 2004 7:52 AM

ZOID



Dearest Browncoats:

If you are looking for some tangible idea of how "Serenity" will look and feel, try this:

Watch Clint Eastwood's "Unforgiven", as I did last night on Encore, for the umpteenth time. I love this movie anyway. The final scene at Greeley's is the greatest in Western-flick history, IMO. But, this time I watched the movie exclusively analyzing the cinematography: the lighting (especially good were the candle- and torchlight 'specials', which are tough to get right), texture and color (outdoors shots and small-room sets never got expansive or claustrophobic, respectively); the use of backdrops and camera angles (the canyon assassination scene and horses walking through the stream were particularly effective. Also noticed a little lens flare in one horseback scene, reminiscent of T.V.-version Firefly, to my eye).

The cinematographer, Jack N. Green, was an Academy award nominee for this work. He is also the cinematographer for "Serenity".

Give "Unforgiven" a(nother) look, and pay particular attention to the picture-taking. If it doesn't give you a chill and a buzz, I'll eat my (very shiny) hat...


Respectfully,

zoid
_________________________________________________

"Burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me." The Ballad of Serenity

Only 201 days, 11 hours, 28 minutes, and 17 seconds left until The BDM!

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Monday, October 4, 2004 3:56 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.


You know Zoid, I read this post on Saturday, and on Sunday I popped in my DVD of "Unforgiven" and watched it strictly for the cinematography. I liked the feel of the lighting, the backdrops, and the angles of the camera. I think that if Mr Green does as excellent a job on Serenity as he did on "Unforgiven" it will make the BDM all that much better.

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."


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Monday, October 4, 2004 6:19 AM

JIMNIGHTSHADE


Quote:

Originally posted by zoid:

The cinematographer, Jack N. Green, was an Academy award nominee for this work. He is also the cinematographer for "Serenity".



I got the chance to talk to Jack Green a bit on the set of Serenity. The guy was so freaking cool. I asked him to sign my chuckies, and he seemed to appreciate me asking for his autograph.

I was surprised when he told me he didn't even go to a film school. He started out being a camera op in san francisco. I got to watch them shoot what he said was one of his favorite shots of Serenity. This movie is going to look very good and I can't wait until next summer...

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Monday, October 4, 2004 10:49 AM

ZOID


BrownCoat1 and JimNightshade:

I'm going to preface this response with the obvious and honest, "I adored Firefly like no other television program I've ever viewed." Having said that for the record, I was less than ecstatic about the photography, especially the outdoors shots. To me, they had a tendency to look like a bunch of people running around on a lot, through a canyon, through a thicket, etc. To my eye, the people and the scenery were separated in a way that subtracted from the desired illusion.

With Jack N. Green, I have no doubt, we'll get the same blending of actors and scenery that is so pervasive throughout "Unforgiven" (and "White Hunter, Black Heart"). The canyon assassination scene, wherein the camera pans up the stricken man's legs, twitching in agony, as his friend brings him a final sip of water; simply magnificent. Between director and photographer, whomever is responsible for the way that entire scene looks should be commended (and in fact they were by the Academy).

Joss joked in his final 'blog' that Mr. Green was always on his case about lighting. My guess is that particular jest was not that far from the truth. I likewise guess that a big part of the reason the BDH's all agreed how wonderful it was to see daily rushes was because of how wonderful, how epic Jack was making them look on screen.

On the one hand you have picture taking; on the other, you have cinematographic artistry. I believe that ability to suspend the analytical part of the mind, to suspend one's disbelief, is critical to storytelling and dependent upon the skill with which the pictures are being 'painted'. I get goose flesh thinking of how good Serenity is going to look come April. We already know the story and dialogue will be great. (EDIT: Star Wars is in deep kimchi.)


Appreciatively,

zoid
_________________________________________________

"Burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me." The Ballad of Serenity

Only 199 days, 8 hours, 20 minutes, and 29 seconds left until The BDM! (But who's counting?)

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Monday, October 4, 2004 11:35 AM

JIMNIGHTSHADE


Quote:

Originally posted by zoid:
BrownCoat1 and JimNightshade:

I'm going to preface this response with the obvious and honest, "I adored Firefly like no other television program I've ever viewed." Having said that for the record, I was less than ecstatic about the photography, especially the outdoors shots.



I liked the cinematography of firefly. especially inside the ship and the exterior ship shots (like in the pilot "Serenity" when the reavers are chasing serenity.) Outside shots perhaps looked a little rushed but they were not not horrible.

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Monday, October 4, 2004 12:35 PM

ZOID



JimNightshade:

I was afraid my comment would elicit that response. That's why I so carefully placed my statement about my love for the show at the outset. The cinematography did not ruin the show. Furthermore, some of the shots were beautiful by any standard you'd care to specify. Inara's bathing scene and her 'benediction' of Book, in particular, are spectacularly well composed and photographed.

My problem -- which I think will be noticeably remedied in "Serenity" -- is with the outdoors shots. Mal's horseback chase of Burgess. When Zoe is shot in 'Serenity, Part 2', the camera angle is so low and sidelong that I could detect the harness and mat as she falls. The hillfolk taking River and Simon through the woods to their settlement.

Again, these shots don't spoil the storytelling. But I noticed them. Good cinematography should be seen and not noticed, IMO. It should never cause the viewer to ponder the picture itself. (NB: The same may be said of CGI, *sneeze*George Lucas*sniffle*)

One last word -- because I sense I'm digging myself a very deep hole while simply intending to be honest and fairly critical -- I am not saying that the DP(s) that worked the T.V. series were untalented or unskilled. Analogically, I'll say that there are many worthy pro baseball players, but only one Barry Bonds. While JNG arguably may not be the 'Barry Bonds' of DPs, he may well be the 'Roger Clemens' of Western-genre cinematography...


Respectfully,

zoid

P.S.
Woo-hoo! Go Astros!

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Monday, October 4, 2004 1:22 PM

JIMNIGHTSHADE


On the contrary, I agree with you.

Quote:

Good cinematography should be seen and not noticed, IMO. It should never cause the viewer to ponder the picture itself. (NB: The same may be said of CGI, *sneeze*George Lucas*sniffle*)


I couldn't agree with you more. It will be nice next summer to have a sci-fi movie with some special effects, than have special effects with a little bit of movie in it.

I also have a critical eye and that usually gets me into arguments with people about movies.

Quote:


Woo-hoo! Go Astros!



Are you in houston?

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Monday, October 4, 2004 1:59 PM

ZOID



JimNightshade wrote:
Quote:

...Are you in houston?

Huh. Don't I wish. Native Houstonian, born St. Joe's 6PM on July 17th 1958 (my Mom still hates me for that: 98 degrees, and no such thing as central air conditioning, heh, heh).

Now living in the 2-dimensional grandeur of a midwestern 'fly-over state' (specific location withheld to minimize death threats). But I've been an Astros fan since I was in short pants, as the saying once went. My Dad (rest him) used to take me and my brother to games at the Astrodome. Sitting in the outfield, eating hot dogs and peanuts and yelling down to Jimmy Wynn and Cesar Cedeno.

Not really the same experience with a double-A team... Still, the 'stros are the hottest team in baseball since August 15th, and I like their chances to win their first playoff series in franchise history against Atlanta. If we can break that jinx, who knows how far we might go?


Nostalgically,

zoid

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Monday, October 4, 2004 7:06 PM

NOOCYTE


Quote:

My problem -- which I think will be noticeably remedied in "Serenity" -- is with the outdoors shots. Mal's horseback chase of Burgess. When Zoe is shot in 'Serenity, Part 2', the camera angle is so low and sidelong that I could detect the harness and mat as she falls. The hillfolk taking River and Simon through the woods to their settlement.


I know whereof you speak, Zoid. I too have remarked on the "people running around a lot" quality of some of these exteriors. Indeed, they are rendered all the more noticeable to me by the unobtrusive artistry of most of the interior shots.

One might surmise that this was a budgetary issue, given the added expense of shooting on location and the constraints under which they labored to get the show shot briskly, and not cut into the eminently well-spent FX budget. I say this mainly because of the brilliant job which D. Boyd did on HBO's "Deadwood." There, the exteriors were just excruciatingly good, blending natural beauty with the overall coarse, brutal quality of the show, while managing to convey the (often claustrophobic) intimacy of the caracters' plight, even as the foreboding immensity of the untrammelled Frontier stretched to all sides (hmmm..."Take me out to the Brown, I don't need your stinkin' town..." Nevermind..). Just lovely.

I'd feel perfectly comfortable mentioning Boyd's work in "Deadwood" in the same breath as Greeen's in "Unforgiven." Indeed, the affinities between these styles gives me (even more) great hope for the shininess which will be "Serenity."

Keep flyin'!!

Department of Redundancy Department

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Tuesday, October 5, 2004 2:15 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.


Quote:

Originally posted by Zoid:
Quote:

I'm going to preface this response with the obvious and honest, "I adored Firefly like no other television program I've ever viewed." Having said that for the record, I was less than ecstatic about the photography, especially the outdoors shots. To me, they had a tendency to look like a bunch of people running around on a lot, through a canyon, through a thicket, etc. To my eye, the people and the scenery were separated in a way that subtracted from the desired illusion.



I understand your meaning Zoid. There was a noticeable difference in exterior and interior shots, with the exterior shots lacking in the quality of the interior ones. I agree that scenery should blend w/ the characters to add to the overall viewing experience, not detract from it.

Quote:

Originally posted by Noocyte
:
Quote:

One might surmise that this was a budgetary issue, given the added expense of shooting on location and the constraints under which they labored to get the show shot briskly, and not cut into the eminently well-spent FX budget. I say this mainly because of the brilliant job which D. Boyd did on HBO's "Deadwood." There, the exteriors were just excruciatingly good, blending natural beauty with the overall coarse, brutal quality of the show, while managing to convey the (often claustrophobic) intimacy of the caracters' plight, even as the foreboding immensity of the untrammelled Frontier stretched to all sides (hmmm..."Take me out to the Brown, I don't need your stinkin' town..." Nevermind..). Just lovely.

I'd feel perfectly comfortable mentioning Boyd's work in "Deadwood" in the same breath as Greeen's in "Unforgiven." Indeed, the affinities between these styles gives me (even more) great hope for the shininess which will be "Serenity."



I completely agree w/ your comparison of Boyd & Green in their talent and artistry. I have been very impressed w/ the cinematography in "Deadwood". Both exterior & interior shots are worthy of a big budget movie, flawlessly blending the people, backgrounds, and sets into a seamless tapestry that tells the story.

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."


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