My best idea for saving the show by mrgreen

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

My best idea for saving the show

POSTED BY: MRGREEN
UPDATED: Thursday, January 16, 2003 08:12
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VIEWED: 2732
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Wednesday, January 15, 2003 11:27 AM

There have been tons of great idea for trying to save FF posted here and on the official FF board. Unfortunately our campaigns to get it back on a network have failed.

Sadly, I find it highly unlikely that we will get a direct to DVD series. I find it almost as unlikely that we will get a big screen movie. (networks aren't willing to spend the 10million dollars or so to finish the season, I don't think that we'd get someone willing to spend the same or more to produce AND advertise/distribute a theatrical release).

What I suggest, however, is this:

20th C. FOX releases the current eps on DVD, inc. the 3 unaired ones, and maybe a little bonus material. Try to keep the price down... a whole season of Buffy is $50, so 2/3 a season of FF should be like $30-35... use this to gauge market demand for Firefly, esp. previously unseen material...

if they get high enough sales, then make a 2hour direct to DVD movie... thats about 3 episodes worth when you remove commercials, opening credits, and whatnot. It could be pretty much a whole story arc in one shot.

I doubt this would cost much. The sets are built (maybe disassembled, but they're designed and built, just need to be put together again), costumes are designed and made, just need to be pulled out of mothballs, casting, etc, etc, all done... so if 1 ep is (on the expensive estimate) $1m to produce (no airing rights included), then we could say that a 2 hour movie could be well under $3m (only one writer to pay, one director, one producer, etc etc). It could even go higher per minute than the eps were to produce, and hit $5m, and still be a cheap venture. 20th C. Fox could release it themselves, so there would be no fees to pay to them.

If that did well, make a sequel. If it also performed decently pitch it to the Nets again, or just make a movie franchise out of it. I think this is fairly realistic, in that the cost of trying it would be very small investment, the potential returns are high (they'd probably break even if Blockbuster picked up 2 copies per store).

Didn't I hear something about Joss wanting to do a movie? Here's his chance I say.

That ended up beign way longer than I had intended. Sorry.

Rob

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Wednesday, January 15, 2003 11:59 AM

SELNYC

Quote:
Originally posted by mrgreen:
What I suggest, however, is this:

20th C. FOX releases the current eps on DVD, inc. the 3 unaired ones, and maybe a little bonus material. Try to keep the price down... a whole season of Buffy is $50, so 2/3 a season of FF should be like $30-35... use this to gauge market demand for Firefly, esp. previously unseen material...

...if they get high enough sales, then make a 2hour direct to DVD movie... thats about 3 episodes worth when you remove commercials, opening credits, and whatnot. It could be pretty much a whole story arc in one shot...

...I doubt this would cost much. The sets are built (maybe disassembled, but they're designed and built, just need to be put together again), costumes are designed and made, just need to be pulled out of mothballs, casting, etc, etc, all done... so if 1 ep is (on the expensive estimate) $1m to produce (no airing rights included), then we could say that a 2 hour movie could be well under $3m (only one writer to pay, one director, one producer, etc etc). It could even go higher per minute than the eps were to produce, and hit $5m, and still be a cheap venture. 20th C. Fox could release it themselves, so there would be no fees to pay to them...

...Didn't I hear something about Joss wanting to do a movie? Here's his chance I say.

As noted elsewhere, this show costs $2 million per ep. The movie idea is not a bad one -- look at what Paramount does with it's Star Trek franchise; they shoot ALL of those movies (except maybe ST:TMP) on the cheap. They appear to pay Stewart and maybe Spiner a bit more, but that's only because their characters are (arguably) more "important" than the others.

That's not actually a problem with Firefly, if you wanted to start making movies on the cheap. As you point out, sets and costumes are already done, cast is in place (and cheap)...and in today's climate, a $20M movie is considered quite cheap. Here in NYC, with ticket prices approaching $10, they'd make that back pretty quickly...

I'm a mean old man.

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Wednesday, January 15, 2003 12:10 PM

MRGREEN

Quote:
Originally posted by selnyc:

As noted elsewhere, this show costs $2 million per ep. The movie idea is not a bad one -- look at what Paramount does with it's Star Trek franchise; they shoot ALL of those movies (except maybe ST:TMP) on the cheap. They appear to pay Stewart and maybe Spiner a bit more, but that's only because their characters are (arguably) more "important" than the others.

That's not actually a problem with Firefly, if you wanted to start making movies on the cheap. As you point out, sets and costumes are already done, cast is in place (and cheap)...and in today's climate, a $20M movie is considered quite cheap. Here in NYC, with ticket prices approaching $10, they'd make that back pretty quickly...

I'm a mean old man.

Well, I think that the $2million tag quoted reffered to cost included the 20th C. Fox broadcast rights fee (ie, what a net would have to pay per ep, if they picked it up). My suggestion would have to come right from 20th Fox/ME, and hence avoid the airing rights cost.

Also, I still say a theatical release would be a uphill battle, the promotional and distribution costs for such a venture would be too high to justify. A direct to DVD movie id far more realistic, imho.

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Wednesday, January 15, 2003 7:58 PM

TVDIR

Hey guys,
Not trying to be mean, but your ideas of saving the show is not going to happen. First of all, the show is expensive. As the president of Mutant says, it cost $2 million an episode that 20th Century Fox (the production arm) and Mutant Enemy have to pay for. Between the 9 cast members, guest stars, large amount of extras, crew, set space, and the CGI stuff, it so expensive.

Even with Fox or another network picking the show up, the license fee isn't that high to cover cost in the long run.

Unfortunately, in the eyes of the networks, the show is a loser. Too low of a rating and not enough interest from the viewing audience. (They just consider us the web viewers cult followers) The networks are not taking a costly chance on a already-deemed failure.

I, for one, would love to see Firefly back with new episodes, season after season, but the reality of television -- if it didn't hit the first time, there's no tomorrow.

I hope Joss and company can find a way to keep it alive. Firefly was an original production.

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Wednesday, January 15, 2003 8:04 PM

SLOWSMURF

I don't know about the movie thing, but I damn well would pay almost any price for those 3 eps, especially if they came with the rest of the episodes on DVD, and I've allready got a tape or dled a copy of every ep they've made so far.(after viewing it on TV of course, I'm not trying to deprive them advertising money)

I think that might give them a good idea how strong the following is, or give us an idea of how weak(I'm betting on the former)

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Wednesday, January 15, 2003 8:22 PM

MRGREEN

Quote:
Originally posted by tvdir:
Hey guys,
Not trying to be mean, but your ideas of saving the show is not going to happen. First of all, the show is expensive. As the president of Mutant says, it cost $2 million an episode that 20th Century Fox (the production arm) and Mutant Enemy have to pay for. Between the 9 cast members, guest stars, large amount of extras, crew, set space, and the CGI stuff, it so expensive.

Even with Fox or another network picking the show up, the license fee isn't that high to cover cost in the long run.

Unfortunately, in the eyes of the networks, the show is a loser. Too low of a rating and not enough interest from the viewing audience. (They just consider us the web viewers cult followers) The networks are not taking a costly chance on a already-deemed failure.

I, for one, would love to see Firefly back with new episodes, season after season, but the reality of television -- if it didn't hit the first time, there's no tomorrow.

I hope Joss and company can find a way to keep it alive. Firefly was an original production.

While I'm not positive, I think that the $2m was the 'asking price' so to speak, and included the 20th C Fox broadcast fees. The actual production of the show was much less, anywhere from $800k to $1.2m per episode. So it's not that expensive. (Buffy runs about $2.33m with broadcast fees, for example).

I agree with you that the nets seem to have deemed the show a failure. It seems to me, however, that 20th C Fox is still behind FF, at least somewhat. They are giving Joss the chance to shop it around, and seem to be conspiring with him even after having been rejected by the several nets. I also think that a direct to DVD movie would be fairly low in cost. Cheaper than most movies, since alot of the work is already done.

Also, not all shows that initially fail are canned never to return... MASH is an older example, but holds true in this case (no one watched it until it was into repeats). Buffy, didn't hit the 3's after the first 2 episodes during the entire first season. Only crossed 2.5 a couple of times. By the second season it was consistantly into the 3's and hit the 4's often. New episodes maintained high 3's and low 4's in the ratings through season 3. Appanrtly, it jumped the shark in the 4th season, and ratings took a dip. The point being was that it got lower than FF type ratings its first season, but gre into a successful franchise given a little time.

:)

Rob

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Wednesday, January 15, 2003 11:06 PM

TVDIR

You can't use the ratings of Buffy, Angel, and other shows on UPN and The WB to compare with the big networks, which FOX is being considered as. Also, M*A*S*H was done at another time and place without 500 channels and home video to compete with. The bottom line is Firefly, a big network series, failed with the mainstream audience.

Regardless of the cost per episode, FOX's Firefly version is expensive. Unless the producers, as stated in the Sci-Fi article, can find a way to reduce the price load (i.e. make a smaller set, lose some cast members, drop certain CGI effects, and/or move the show to Canada to shoot), this beloved series is done for.

Also, there's no possible way for anyone to take a chance on a direct-to-DVD movie. The show hasn't proven itself to make that costly committment. IT'S TOO EXPENSIVE, regardless of the set still being up. We are talking about a show that most people never heard about.

Maybe later, if Sci-Fi picked up the rerun rights as special programming, and if viewers discovered the show, 20th Century and Mutant could consider a new movie or some other vehicle.

I'm not trying to be negative, but face facts. It's not going to happen anytime soon. Maybe a year from now, we will see reruns on Sci-Fi and a collector's edition on DVD with the episodes already completed. That's about it. No new adventures with Mal and crew.

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Thursday, January 16, 2003 4:54 AM

MATWANG

What is Fox thinking????

To spend this kind of money on a show and then not advertise it, hold back the initial pilot movie, slate it for a deadly time zone (anyone remember the fabulous Strange Luck and great Brimstone...all fellow Friday@8:00 calcellees) and then pre-empt episodes 3 & 4 with sports events... you have to wonder what kind of business people are at the helm of this network.

Anyone with a brain can watch any Firefly episode and see it's a great show.

And they think "Fastlane" and "John Doe" are worth watching??? Do they have ears? Do they even listen to the dialog?

OK, so they spend 2 million (or 1.2, whatever) per episode. Doesn't that mean that they're better off advertising it and doing everything they can to make sure people in the target audience know about it?

Like many of you, I tell everyone I know about Firefly, and no one's heard of it.

Why would Fox spend $2 million per episode and then let "their product" sit on a shelf?

Is this stupid or what???

I think Fox should continue to advertise the show, run it over and over again until people start hearing about it, and then order more episodes.

Since it's highly re-watchable, it will surely catch on.

I just can't stomach any more posts of "Firefly didn't connect with an audience..." -- it never got a chance.

Given an opportunity to be seen and promoted, it would be a huge, huge hit. I have no doubt about it.

I'm a devout Trekker, and after Firefly, Enterprise puts me to sleep. Why bother? (More about that later...)

Come on Fox! Do the right business thing! Don't be stupid! You've got a winner on your hands! Take a grassroots, shoestring approach and let Firefly episodes play.

The audience will come... they just need a chance to see the show.

BTY: thanks to all of you for this great website and your passionate posts.

To serenity ~

MaTwang
NYC

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Thursday, January 16, 2003 5:59 AM

SALTYLAMON

I dont know where you all get your 411 from. But Firefly production costs are $800k per episode. The $1.2 million is Licensing fees a network pays to air the show. Firefly is substantially cheaper then Angel and Buffy.

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Thursday, January 16, 2003 7:12 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.

Your ideas MrGreen are good ones.

Let's look at the trend on Ebay right now. Sellers are auctioning off the episodes that have aired thus far for anywhere from $35-80. Let's say the average is about $50. That is what fans are willing to pay for the half season that has been shown thus far. I would say it is safe to say that if they box it right and throw in a few extras, $45-50 for the episodes on DVD would be a good deal.

Now if they advertise it on the Firefly websites, they could make a good deal of money. That money could be used, as you pointed out, to make a straight to DVD movie or perhaps make a made for TV production for one of the networks as a trial shot for a new spot.

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Thursday, January 16, 2003 8:12 AM

STRIDER

somebody,(maybe i myself should do it),shpuld tell them,
that this show has allready fans outside the u.s !

and here are a lot of people who would whant to see the show too !
dubbed on tv,i would be a great hit !
i'm sure,they can sell it to other countrys,that makes money too !

man,i want that show stay alive !
i live in china,and this show would be great here !
but may internet fans allready know the show,and i will keep telling !

great that people like you exist !
go on !

strider

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