GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Angel, Buffy, or Firefly. Choose only one.

POSTED BY: OPPYH
UPDATED: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 09:16
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 13545
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Wednesday, June 14, 2006 6:00 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Much like Zoe said to Niska before he had a chance to finish...

I'll take Firefly. I'm sorry, was there something else you wanted to ask me ?

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Wednesday, June 14, 2006 6:46 PM

SOULQUAKE


Firefly

It was the first of Joss Whedon's stuff that I saw :) Next would be Angel, then Buffy. Although, while I liked the Buffy series, I couldn't stand Buffy herself :p

---
"Sun came out, and I walked on my feet and heard with my ears. I ate the bits, the bits stayed down, and I work. I function like I'm a girl. I hate it because I know it'll go away."

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Wednesday, June 14, 2006 8:28 PM

RUXTON


Buffy definitely, without hesitation. The length, the subtleties, the nuances, the freshness, the success. The overall outstanding acting. Etc.

I suspect those who watched them all right from the beginning, as I did, would better apprciate Buffy and its place in TV history.

I wonder how anyone can choose to watch only a dozen episodes OVER AND OVER AND OVER when you might truly enjoy the freshness of 140 or so Buffy shows. I like them all, but jeez.

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Wednesday, June 14, 2006 8:49 PM

MISSTRESSAHARA


Phoenixrose wrote:

Quote:

I never did watch much Buffy. I'm sorry, truly sorry, to all the Buffy fans here, but I really, really can't stand Sarah Michelle Gellar. I don't know why she bothers me so much but she does.


Tristan wrote:

Quote:

I did not like Buffy at all. Sarah Michelle Gellar ruined it for me. I really liked Angel, and that made me try to watch more Buffy, but I just couldn't do it...I tried, I really did, just could not enjoy it.


Capture wrote:

Quote:

I could not hate buffy more (sorry Joss).



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Thank God I thought I was one of the rare few who hated Buffy, I'm not alone *sob* makes me feel better.

Now Chrisisll before you winge at me keep in mind I gave it a chance truly, but there was ther aformentioned problem called SMG, just something about her I CANNOT stand. I wish those vampires would just.... ok maybe unfair of me to say but really, watching her on screen even more than a moment is like sharp nails on a chalkboard.

But funilly enough it isn't just her, I really have a problem with most of the cast. Maybe I got used to the fantastic ensemble on another show but they came across as un-real, plain, dull, and annoying. (getting ready to fend off the villagers and the flaming torches) After a few episodes well, I was ready to do some heavy damage myself.

Now for those who need to laugh at me or have some ammunition here's my confession. I liked the movie. Yes the movie. I never knew when it came out it was by Joss or who he was, I know it didn't do well in the theatres but I liked it. It was camp and maybe the acting was a little off but... *meh* it was fun for me. And the actress playing Buffy was someone I liked. If maybe they'd picked her or another actress.... but I'm not here to bash SMG (saying this after SMG bits are lying everywhere) You wanted to know my answer.... I'll say it's the show that got me onto the wonder that is Whedon and ruin everything else out there for me.

***********FIREFLY ALL THE WAY BABY.***********

Wish I can use one of those Firefly icons, it'd be shiny right now.

Now for second I'll say Angel (shockers after her confession) I've been catching the odd episode here and there on Space (not in order wouldn't you know) and though it can be dark and Angel is a little too serious at times (annoyingly so) and the guy who plays him is not attractive to me (talk about a pudgy vampire. Too many nights at the Blood Bars) I like the ensemble, and there is Joss's whitty oneliners and inside jokes and Spikes becoming a favorite of mine. I'm sorry I havn't seen things from the beggining and maybe Space will play them in order earlier in the day (3:00 am is a very late time) so I can watch it from the start, but when the SMG episodes come on I'll have to grit my teeth and bear with it. Frankly I don't see what the hell... ok, bashing again, sorry.

One more thing, the thing that helps make this the easy choise, I'd rather spend my time on a shiny (if slightly dirty) spaceship then a vampire infested town. Might be the odd Reaver and Alliance patrol come by, but at least we can outrun em' (with help of a converted coffee can and a pilot that can perform a Crazy Ivan)





If I'm a bitch, then life just got interesting

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Wednesday, June 14, 2006 8:54 PM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.


Hey, I liked the movie too!!!
Whew, like you, I'm glad I'm not the only one!

***********


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Wednesday, June 14, 2006 9:29 PM

RIVER6213


Making us choose like this makes me want to gut you.

River

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Wednesday, June 14, 2006 10:32 PM

MISSTRESSAHARA


Quote:

Originally posted by RiveR6213:
Making us choose like this makes me want to gut you.

River



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Reaver anybody?

If I'm a bitch, then life just got interesting

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Thursday, June 15, 2006 12:47 AM

ANNIE


Firefly - don't even have to think about it. I was a fan of Angel and Buffy, but given the choice, it's definitely the BDHs.

Sex and violence on the big screen, where it belongs.

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Thursday, June 15, 2006 12:54 AM

SCRUFFYHANSOLO


i would take the 1 season of firefly over all the buffy and angel seasons combined

))<>((

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Thursday, June 15, 2006 1:36 AM

BOB30


Firefly, without question.

I'll be in my bunk....

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Thursday, June 15, 2006 1:38 AM

BOB30


Firefly, without question.

I'll be in my bunk....

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Thursday, June 15, 2006 2:14 AM

FOLLOWMAL



I am currently watching Buffy from the beginning.
I intend to watch Angel ( and Dark Angel, but that's another thing...) afterwards.

And so far I like Buffy I really do.. the writing, the ensemble, and although I've never been a big SMG fan... she DOES grow on you.
It's Jossy!

But I don't love Buffy.. I love Firefly.
And I don't want to go live with Buffy....yet
I'd fly on Serenity if I could.

It doesn't matter if there's less.. it's home.

So... yea... Firefly



"You hold. Hold 'til I get back." Mal

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Thursday, June 15, 2006 2:22 AM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.


Well said FollowMal. Well said.

***********

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Thursday, June 15, 2006 2:34 AM

SUZFROMOZ


I am a huge buffy fan - I own every episode on DVD, and I had them all taped off the TV before it came out on DVD. (Angel too BTW) However, for quality of acting, character developemtn, the bond I instantly felt after watching one episode.... I have to say firefly. And the fact that I am taking into account the few episodes etc makes it mean even more. I never joined a forum for buffy.....

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Thursday, June 15, 2006 3:40 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by Misstressahara:


Now Chrisisll before you winge at me keep in mind I gave it a chance truly, but there was ther aformentioned problem called SMG, just something about her I CANNOT stand.


*Chrisisall's eyes narrow as he glances at Mistressahara*

Chrisisall, fan of great dialogue and pop-culture references*

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Thursday, June 15, 2006 3:50 AM

MICJWELCH


Honestly, part of the reason I was hesitant to see Serenity was the "From the Creator of Buffy and Angel" thing. Yeah, that's what I said. Sorry. My wife loves those shows, but I thought they were aweful. Thank goodness one of my friends told me how wrong I was about Serenity. Then I watched the series, and I was hooked. I have a new found respect for Joss Whedon. (Course, the fact that he wrote the script for Toy Story helps too.)

"We may experience some slight turbulence, and then... explode."

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Thursday, June 15, 2006 4:01 AM

NIRWIN


Firefly

With Angel being a moderately close second, and buffy being a very distant third.

---
Nirwin

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Thursday, June 15, 2006 4:32 AM

ZORPRIME01



This is a really tough call, but I'll go with Firefly simply because I feel like there isn't any dead weight to it - I thought every episode was a masterpiece, as short a series as it was.

I haven't seen that much Buffy and am only now getting into it, but I'veseen all of the Angel series and I really really love it, so this was a tough call. Angel has a lot of great episodes but also some not-so-good ones. If we were narrowing it down to just the great Angel eps I might very well pick it over Firefly.




"If wishes were horses, we'd all be eatin' steak."

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Thursday, June 15, 2006 4:39 AM

RUGBUG


Quote:

Originally posted by deepgirl187:
Why is so much emphasis being placed on the length of the series? Maybe Firefly wasn't as long as the others, but that doesn't change the fact that it was a high-quality, well-acted series.



deepgirl: that also doesn't change the fact that Buffy was a high-quality, well-acted series as well. Both were ground-breaking, with the reverberations of Buffy still being felt today. Most of the shows with strong women kicking arse had a chance to succeed because Buffy paved the way. Firefly broke ground, but it never reached the audience of Buffy. It just didn't have the chance to. It also didn't have the chance to go through growing pains.

There's seven seasons of Buffy. Yes, some of it sucked (Go Fish was pretty lame, but still had some charm). Some of it was brilliant (Hush, The Body, Once More with Feeling). And most of it was very good. Firefly was Very Good. It never sucked, but it also didn't have a chance to be brilliant. Give it 6 1/2 more years and it invariably would've sucked ocassionally, been very good most of the time and been brilliant once in a while.

Now, if we were going to compare based on first seasons alone...Buffy would come after Firefly AND Angel. Buffy's first season was similar in length to Firefly: It was 12 eps long. To compare it with Firefly would be ridiculous. Firefly blows it out of the water. But Firefly was also built on Mutant Enemy's wealth of experience from Buffy and Angel. ME honed it skills on the other two and came out of the gate stronger for Firefly, thus a fantastic 14 episodes. It stands to reason that its first season would be better (if ME had learned anything), but had it continued, it would've experienced the same problems that most other series face.

So, in that sense, length does matter.

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Thursday, June 15, 2006 4:51 AM

DIRTWEED


Tried watching Buffy and Angel several times. Just wasn't my thing.


Firefly. Actually when my friend was going to show me my first ep of Firefly he told me it was by the guy that did Buffy....I refused to watch it. He tossed it in anyway....glad I decided to stick around!



Dirtweed

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Thursday, June 15, 2006 5:29 AM

TAYEATRA


I think I might just quote all of Rugbug

Quote:

Originally posted by RugBug:
deepgirl: that also doesn't change the fact that Buffy was a high-quality, well-acted series as well. Both were ground-breaking, with the reverberations of Buffy still being felt today. Most of the shows with strong women kicking arse had a chance to succeed because Buffy paved the way. Firefly broke ground, but it never reached the audience of Buffy. It just didn't have the chance to. It also didn't have the chance to go through growing pains.

There's seven seasons of Buffy. Yes, some of it sucked (Go Fish was pretty lame, but still had some charm). Some of it was brilliant (Hush, The Body, Once More with Feeling). And most of it was very good. Firefly was Very Good. It never sucked, but it also didn't have a chance to be brilliant. Give it 6 1/2 more years and it invariably would've sucked ocassionally, been very good most of the time and been brilliant once in a while.

Now, if we were going to compare based on first seasons alone...Buffy would come after Firefly AND Angel. Buffy's first season was similar in length to Firefly: It was 12 eps long. To compare it with Firefly would be ridiculous. Firefly blows it out of the water. But Firefly was also built on Mutant Enemy's wealth of experience from Buffy and Angel. ME honed it skills on the other two and came out of the gate stronger for Firefly, thus a fantastic 14 episodes. It stands to reason that its first season would be better (if ME had learned anything), but had it continued, it would've experienced the same problems that most other series face.

So, in that sense, length does matter.



With one exception. I really do think that Firefly already achieved brilliance, consistently.

Still, as much as it would break my heart to lose Firefly, I would pick Buffy.

For the record... I hate SMG after about mid-season 3.

*****
Taya
*****
I'm going to S3!!!
(*Insert hysterical celebration dance here*)

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Thursday, June 15, 2006 5:58 AM

INDIGOSTARBLASTER


LOL! Thanks, Chrisisall :)

Indigo S.

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Thursday, June 15, 2006 6:08 AM

MONKSDAD


i never saw buffy or angel before i got the dvd's for firefly. after seeing all of firefly (watched a couple eps when it originally aired) i borrowed buffy dvd's and i just cant get into it. i like the movie with dylan mckay (luke perry) but the show just doesnt do it for me... so FIREFLY without a doubt is my pick

"And I think calling him that is an insult to the psychotic lowlife community."

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Thursday, June 15, 2006 8:41 AM

RUXTON


RugBug,, very well stated. Without Buffy there COULD NOT HAVE BEEN Firefly.

Unfortunately, most forum members on this thread seem to have not had the joy of watching Buffy/Mutant Enemy/Joss Whedon stretch and grow. As you noted, and as I tried to note above, Buffy was the FIRST show of its kind and many copycats came after it, in many genres, including cop shows. The observant could see that Joss/Buffy was being ripped off all along the way. Stolen ideas, stolen themes, even stoled phrases popped up all over TV, only AFTER Buffy aired. It was one of the very few truly ground-breaking TV series ever, and to my mind the very finest.

And of course I fell totally in love with SMG right from the very first second my aging eyes fell on her, at the very first time she appeared as Buffy, the very first time it was aired.

Without seven seasons of Buffy there would be no Firefly, no Serenity, and this forum would not exist. Newcomers don't/can't understand this, and so cannot give due credit.

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Thursday, June 15, 2006 8:48 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by Ruxton:
It was one of the very few truly ground-breaking TV series ever, and to my mind the very finest.

Newcomers don't/can't understand this, and so cannot give due credit.

I was a dumass never to have watched it when it was first broadcast.
But that's not an isolated incident.

I guess Brisco's cancellation had a lasting effect on me....

Late to all parties Chrisisall

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Thursday, June 15, 2006 8:48 AM

DEEPGIRL187


Quote:

Originally posted by Ruxton:
Without seven seasons of Buffy there would be no Firefly, no Serenity, and this forum would not exist. Newcomers don't/can't understand this, and so cannot give due credit.



Maybe us newcomers haven't been Whedon fans as long, but is it really fair to say that we don't understand and cannot give due credit? Yes, I will agree that Joss had to grow and change as a writer to create Firefly, and that process included creating Buffy and Angel. I see Firefly as superior for my own reasons, just like you see Buffy as superior for yours. I understand just fine, thank you, and all of us "newcomers" are entitled to our own opinions.

**************************************************

Jayne: You wanna go, little man?
Wash: Only if it's someplace with candlelight.

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Thursday, June 15, 2006 9:04 AM

INDIGOSTARBLASTER


Hmm... this brings up an interesting point. Is Buffy better for being more ground-breaking, or is Firefly better in an absolute sense, having had after all the benefit of Buffy's shoulders to stand on?

It's sort of like arguing over whether Newton or Einstein was the better physicist.

Nope, can't do it. I don't have an objective argument that works for me, one way or another. I can only reiterate again that, for me, right now, Firefly is the one for me.

Indigo S.

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Thursday, June 15, 2006 9:44 AM

DIRTWEED


Quote:

Originally posted by Ruxton:
Without seven seasons of Buffy there would be no Firefly, no Serenity, and this forum would not exist. Newcomers don't/can't understand this, and so cannot give due credit.




Well you can't quite lump everyone into that category. I totally understand that Buffy had to be a hit for Whedon to keep working and not end up as a greeter at Walmart.

It's just that not everyone liked Buffy and/or Angel. I for one am glad he switched gears a bit.

:D



Dirtweed

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Thursday, June 15, 2006 10:06 AM

RUGBUG


Quote:

Originally posted by Dirtweed:

It's just that not everyone liked Buffy and/or Angel. I for one am glad he switched gears a bit.



Dirtweed,

You don't have to like Buffy or Angel to recognize that Firefly would not be what it is without them.

I don't have a problem with people liking Firefly better. And as an introduction into the Whedonverse, it's a hell of a good one, which probably also makes it harder to see the genius in Buffy or Angel. It's like falling in love with "American Idiot" by Green Day, if you will, and then going back and listening to "1,039 Smoothed Out Slappy Hours." It's still recognizably the same band, but if you're used to the maturity in American Idiot, you won't be as pleased with 1039. If you were a fan of 1039 to begin with, American Idiot is just that much better, without necessarily eclipsing its predecessor. (sidenote: you may just hate Green Day, but it was the first band that came to mind. ) I'm sure Firefly has the same kind of effect when some browncoats try out Buffy, especially season 1.

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Thursday, June 15, 2006 10:08 AM

XENOPROBE


Yep... Buffy it is folks.

Having said that, Firefly managed to capture my heart with the same fanaticism in 13 episodes that the first few seasons of Buffy did, but I NEVER tire of BtVS. (Not that I ever tire of Firefly...)

The summer before last I was unemployed and my best friend and I watched Buffy, start to finish, so many times through that we had to get creative about it. We bought markers and sparkles and such and wrote out every episode title on little slips of paper. We decorated an old wooden box and deposited all the titles in it. That way, we could 'draw' a title to watch, just to shake it up a bit!

I find I can only watch Firefly all the way through about 4 times before I just get so mad and upset about its cancellation that I have to take a break for a spell.

Angel, though high-calibre, didn't capture methe way Buffy and Firefly did... though I love Angel thoroughly too. So, I have to go with the Buff in the end :)



Ching-wah TSAO duh liou mahng. Shiny.

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Thursday, June 15, 2006 10:35 AM

RMMC


Quote:

Originally posted by FollowMal:

I am currently watching Buffy from the beginning.
I intend to watch Angel ( and Dark Angel, but that's another thing...) afterwards.



FM? You should really consider watching Buffy and Angel together as there are eps with story lines that lead from one show to the other. It's not unwatchable separately, but it runs much smoother that way. This happened because the shows were run back-to-back on the same night and network.

This goes begining in S4 of Buffy to S1 of Angel. The eps that 'spill over' are:

B: Harsh Light of day
A: In the Dark

A: Batchelor Party
B: Pangs
A: I Will Remember You


B: This Year's Girl/Who Are You?
A: Five by Five/Sanctuary
B: New Moon Rising


The next season isn't as interwoven.

B: Fool for Love
A: Darla

B: The Gift
A: There's No Place Like Plrtz Glrb (And don't forget to look for Joss in this one. No, Really!)

After that, it really didn't overlap as Bufffy moved to UPN and Angel stayed on WB.

Happy Viewing!!

******
RMMC

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Monday, June 19, 2006 8:56 PM

RUXTON


Deepgirl187 said,
"...is it really fair to say that we don't understand and cannot give due credit?"

Is it really fair for you to have an opinion on a fabulous sunrise you didn't see, except in reruns? To experience all of Whedon/Buffy/Angel as it unfolded is to have seen that sunrise; and not have to be told to look at the sky.

It is impossible to understand fully, to truly comprehend, if you weren't along for the ride.

Again, RugBug said it well, to the effect that if you see a Van Gogh or Picasso or Ansel Adams stemming from their full-blown maturation as artists, you cannot fully appreciate their earlier ground-breaking work, and perhaps won't even like it. But if you went along with them for the ride, watched it happen, appreciated what was there right from the first (or followed the Rolling Stones from their earliest days), you can only then appreciate what they became. The genius was there right from the start, if you had an eye to see it.

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Monday, June 19, 2006 10:02 PM

RIVER6213


River stakes Deepgirl187 without fanfare. Chops her into really small bits and put her into a mustard container, and mails her off to China where she will be consumed by a dog named Binky.


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Tuesday, June 20, 2006 12:14 AM

ZOID


Firefly.

...For all the reasons listed by other dislikers of BtVS and AtS.

...And for the (as usual) inflammatory and insulting Ruxton: I don't see Buffy as 'the dawning of a new era'. I see it as the deepest darkness before the dawn that is Firefly. I don't see Buffy as early Stones; I see it as a pimply-faced kid trying to figure out which end of the guitar to hold in his bedroom. Firefly is that same kid who finally flashes with the spirit of Music and gets his big breakthrough.

...Unfortunately for us Firefly fans, the kid's name happens to be Randy Rhodes...

So whilst Ruxton denigrates people who have no taste for teenaged angst and/or cuddly vampire shenanigans as 'newcomers', I will simply say that Firefly was perfectly mature in every sense of that phrase, and as a consequence, that it is the hands-down winner as far as I'm concerned.

There wasn't any competition, Joss-written or otherwise. Firefly is the best television ever aired.

The fact that F*x still don't recognize their error shows that Art is a stranger to them, and unwelcome in their house. Like, they'd sell the Mona Lisa in a garage sale for a buck-fifty, 'cause she's a homely fat chick with a bad smile. Nope, F*x is more of a fake blonde-with-streaks, boob job and oversized gleeming toothy smile kind of a network. They've got no eye for real Beauty, and no concept whatsoever of Soul...



Appreciatively,

zoid

P.S.
I like dogs. I don't like 'em so much as puppies; that's a great playful time for my kids, but they're not much actual use. Now, once they've gone through their growing pains and turned into mature dogs, smart and responsive, that's when they're special, golden. Same thing with Joss' work to date.
_________________________________________________

"I aim to misbehave." -Capt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity, a.k.a. 'the BDBOF'

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