Not so black and white by FlyinFree

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Not so black and white

POSTED BY: FLYINFREE
UPDATED: Wednesday, January 7, 2004 12:03
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VIEWED: 1635
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Tuesday, January 6, 2004 12:19 PM

One of the things I really enjoy with Firefly is its moral shades of grey. The whore is respectible, the preacher is violent (and goes to the whore for benediction), the heroes are criminals, killing a cop was good, the government is evil, etc. I like the fact that what is "right" in the show is what is moral or honourable (yes, I'm Canadian) not what is legal. Another show that appeals to me in this way is The Shield where the main character is a dirty cop but when, in one instance, he discovers he set up an innocent man he hijacks a police evidence van to save him. I respect values like honour and loyalty and have always found them to be a better measure of right and wrong than any legal or religious dogma.

"Well, we're still flyin'."
"That's not much."
"It's enough." Malcolm Reynolds and Simon Tam - Serenity

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Tuesday, January 6, 2004 12:25 PM

FLYINFREE

Something else I appreciate is the idea of adopted family, the family you choose rather than the one you were born into. The bond you form amongst a group like that is stronger than anything else and a better example of true brotherhood than anything else I can imagine.

"Well, we're still flyin'."
"That's not much."
"It's enough." Malcolm Reynolds and Simon Tam - Serenity

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Tuesday, January 6, 2004 2:55 PM

LADYJAYNE

Flyinfree, I TOTALLY agree with your take on the definition of family. As someone who has had to cut her father out of her life because of his refusal to acknowledge that his behavior is harmful to himself and others, I can truly relate to that.

You can see an underlying belief throughout all of Joss' creations: We are the sum of our life's choices. Every choice we make affects not only us, but others around us and in the end we are the only one's who will be accountable for the choices we make. And we WILL be accountable for those choices. Not by some divine decree or a god sending us to paradise or torment, but by the consequences that occur after those choices are made.

This is why everything is a shade of gray. We cannot know all of the consequences of every choice we make, but we DO have to live with all of them. Think before you act and attempt to live a life which creates more happiness than pain for all others.

--Kala

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Tuesday, January 6, 2004 7:04 PM

FLYINFREE

Quote:
Originally posted by ladyjayne:
Think before you act and attempt to live a life which creates more happiness than pain for all others.

Except for FOX execs, them you put heaps of pain and suffering on.

"Well, we're still flyin'."
"That's not much."
"It's enough." Malcolm Reynolds and Simon Tam - Serenity

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Wednesday, January 7, 2004 2:21 AM

DRAKON

Quote:
Originally posted by FlyinFree:
One of the things I really enjoy with Firefly is its moral shades of grey. The whore is respectible, the preacher is violent (and goes to the whore for benediction), the heroes are criminals, killing a cop was good, the government is evil, etc. I like the fact that what is "right" in the show is what is moral or honourable (yes, I'm Canadian) not what is legal. Another show that appeals to me in this way is The Shield where the main character is a dirty cop but when, in one instance, he discovers he set up an innocent man he hijacks a police evidence van to save him. I respect values like honour and loyalty and have always found them to be a better measure of right and wrong than any legal or religious dogma.

"Well, we're still flyin'."
"That's not much."
"It's enough." Malcolm Reynolds and Simon Tam - Serenity

These kind of comments STILL confuse me. What the heck is grey about that?

You, (and most people in general) do know what the right thing to do is. You know it when you see it. Whether it has anything to do with law or religion, is irrelevant. You respect the guy on Shield, for saving an innocent man from jail. You respect our criminal gang, not for their moral ambiguity, but for their clarity of action and purpose.

Mal shot a cop. But that was a good thing he did, and you, I and the rest of this forum recognize it as a good thing. Not some grey area. There isn't one in this situation nor most others.

Think a minute. If shooting the cop was a grey area, would it have really mattered if Mal did not? If it is all grey, then not shooting Dobson should have been just as moral as shooting him.

The morality of Mal and his crew ain't legal and probably ain't religious either. But that don't mean that its grey.

"Wash, where is my damn spaceship?"

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Wednesday, January 7, 2004 2:28 AM

FLYINFREE

Mal and gang are criminals, hardly considered to be "white" morality. The main character on The Shield is a dirty cop, generally considered by most people to be very "black". These people steal and kill for a living by choice, the "grey" is even though these people choose to live an immoral life, they aren't bad people, and the law and government who are supposed to be the moral right are bad, if for no other reason than their indifference to the suffering of others.

"...we're still flyin'."
"That's not much."
"It's enough." Malcolm Reynolds and Simon Tam - Serenity

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Wednesday, January 7, 2004 5:39 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.

I share many of your feelings about Mal & crew FlyinFree. I also like The Shield & have been jonesing for the new season to start.

I agree that the idea of a character or characters who live beyond the law and yet are honorable and do the right thing appeals to me. I guess it is one of the reasons I like Westerns and why Firefly appeals to me so much.

Touching on your point of extended family, I like the camaraderie of the crew of Serenity. I think the fact that they genuinely like one another and get along so well bleeds over into their acting and give a legitimate feeling of caring and teamwork.

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

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Wednesday, January 7, 2004 12:03 PM

LADYJAYNE

Quote:
These kind of comments STILL confuse me. What the heck is grey about that?

Black & white thinking tells someone that "killing is always wrong". It does not allow any circumstances to come into the picture. If killing someone is *not* always wrong, then it falls into the gray.

And yes, the crew definitely walk a gray line. We have one episode, Safe, in which the crew leaves the planet along with Simon and River behind. And yet in War Stories we are told that they "never leave a man behind." Why was one acceptable and one not? I will not accept the cop-out of "Well, they went back for them later." because when they went to Magellen they had no idea whether they'd ever be allowed to leave.

The fact is that they chose to value the life of one crew member over another. Two others, as a matter of fact. No, they did not know that Simon and River were safer than Book. They CHOSE and had to live with any consequences that came of that choice.

If the thinking was black and white there would have been no choice involved. They would either believe "A crew member seriously injured gets priority treatment" or "We never leave a man behind." Niether of those tenents are black and white to the crew of Serenity. Different circumstances change which choice is made.

--Kala

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