GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Faster Than Light?

POSTED BY: TINYTIMM
UPDATED: Saturday, August 10, 2002 11:20
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Saturday, August 3, 2002 12:21 PM

TINYTIMM


This is not a time to make assumptions about science. As wiser heads than I have noted the known universe is overdue for another revolution in accepted scientific thought.

Every branch of physics is having to deal with divergence between reality and theory.

Jeff
Who suggests you take a cup of dark matter and call me in the morning.

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Monday, August 5, 2002 9:04 AM

ZICSOFT


Quote:

Originally posted by TinyTimm:
This is not a time to make assumptions about science. As wiser heads than I have noted the known universe is overdue for another revolution in accepted scientific thought.

Every branch of physics is having to deal with divergence between reality and theory.

Jeff
Who suggests you take a cup of dark matter and call me in the morning.

But you have to make assumptions in order to do science -- not to mention science fiction!

That being said, I do get very tired of SF writers -- Steve Baxter and Greg Egan come to mind -- who write complicated stories based on cosmological theories that aren't 5 years old, and that probably won't last another 5 years.

Still, you have to be careful what you throw out. FTL is a case in point. Maybe there is a way around this kind of speed limit. But a universe that doesn't consider light to be an absolute benchmark would be very weird. If you tried to do logical SF with FTL, but without the usual "warp fields" handwaving, you'd end up with something closer to Tolkein -- or maybe Dunsany -- than to Heinlen!!!


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Monday, August 5, 2002 10:28 AM

TINYTIMM


Quote:

Originally posted by Zicsoft:
But you have to make assumptions in order to do science -- not to mention science fiction!

FTL is a case in point. Maybe there is a way around this kind of speed limit. But a universe that doesn't consider light to be an absolute benchmark would be very weird.



TinyTimm summons scads of scantily clad (envison their great-grandmothers in John Derek style costume-drama fashions) young women of questionable morals to place Zicsoft on a futon and sooth his soon-to-be-fevered brow with fine cloths soaked in ice water.

Zic..I wanna break this to you gently. The Speed of Light isn't a universal constant no more. Cross reference the signals returning from Voyager Spacecraft far from home. Cross reference analysis of signals from the GPS satellites.



Jeff
Who loves the bleeding edge of science, especially when it makes the old grey-beards nervous.

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Monday, August 5, 2002 10:39 AM

ZICSOFT


Those are signals. Information can travel faster than the medium in which it's contained. That why you and I can communicate by bouncing electronic signals off each other, even though the electrons that enable this communication don't go very fast -- or even very far.

So yes, signals can go faster than light. That's pretty mind-boggling, but it doesn't break any rules. And it doesn't leave you with any obvious tricks for building an FTL spaceship.

Anyway, there are esthetic issues. Einstein tied the speed of light thing to his concept of time. If you can break the lightspeed barrier, then you can basically ignore time as well. So all those stupid NG and Voyager episodes, where the stories don't hang together, and don't have to, would be the norm. THIS WOULD BE A CRIME AGAINST HUMANITY!


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Monday, August 5, 2002 10:40 AM

INARASNEWTOY


Science Fiction WITHOUT FTL drive would be tearfully boring.

Viewer One : So what are they doing this week?
Viewer Two : Sitting around on their ship flying to their first planet.
V1 : Again? didn't they do that last week?
V2 : Yeah! And they did that for the last YEAR! And the year before that!
V1 : This show sucks! Let's watch Farscape, with Starburst they get to the next planet before the opening music!

*CLICK*

INT

One evil at a time, that's the best i can do - Farscape

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Thursday, August 8, 2002 8:22 AM

SHUGGIE


On the subject of FTL and the speed of light

http://theage.com.au/articles/2002/08/07/1028157961167.html

Shug

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Friday, August 9, 2002 11:07 AM

HAKEN

Likes to mess with stuffs.


Here is another little tidbit I came across on the subject that says light is not as constant as we might think and perhaps even slows down over time. One could make the assumption that "new" light is faster than "old" light. In any case, here's the quote for you all to digest.

Quote:


Another group of researchers has jumped on what might eventually become an anti-Einstein bandwagon. Last August, scientists looking at how light was absorbed by metallic atoms in gas clouds some 12 billion light-years away found that the so-called fine structure constant may be changing subtly as the universe grows older. The constant, called alpha, explains how electromagnetic forces hold atoms together. The speed of light, another presumed constant, is one element in the alpha formula and so was also called into question.

Now, in a report in today's issue of the journal Nature, an Australian research team reports results of an examination of black holes for further clues. They say other parts of the alpha formula are unlikely to change, and so the speed of light is most probably the varying number, slowing over time. The team, led by physicist Paul Davies, says their argument is "only suggestive." But if true, the implications are wide. Davies even said that traveling beyond the speed of light would not be out of the question.


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Saturday, August 10, 2002 11:20 AM

ZICSOFT


There's a lot of little nits you can pick with Einstein, but it's a mistake to think of this issue as "Albert was right" versus "Albert was wrong." The issue is how do you explain a specific observable fact: light in a vacuum always travels at a fixed speed relative to an observer -- and you can't change the numbers by speeding up or slowing down.

It's like you were trying to measure the speed of a train by counting the number of cars that pass you in, say, 10 seconds. Now suppose you calculate that the train's going 60 MPH. Just as an experiment, you decide to hope in your own car (the automobile kind), pace the train at 30MPH, and measure it again. Now, unless the engineer's having fun with you, the train should be going 30MPH with respect to your car. You'd be really shocked if the train still seemed to be moving at 60MPH.

Suppose you speed up to 60, 120. You even turn around and go the other way. Still the apparent speed of the train is 60 MPH. Assuming the enginner isn't malicious and psychic, something weird is going on.

That's exactly what happens when you try to measure the speed of light. About a century ago, a Swiss patent clerk named Einstein got famous because he came up with a theory that explained this phenomenon. There are problems with this theory (as with any theory), but so far it's the only explanation we have.


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