Ruttin' Mad as Hell: Episode Order (Beware: Jaynestown Spoilers) by Novagrass

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Ruttin' Mad as Hell: Episode Order (Beware: Jaynestown Spoilers)

POSTED BY: NOVAGRASS
UPDATED: Saturday, October 19, 2002 12:57
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VIEWED: 2484
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Friday, October 18, 2002 3:16 PM

Why? My only question is why... why go ahead and show whichever episode you want, FOX? Why must you go and butcher the attempts at gradual character development? Why show episode 6 as episode 3, episode 7 as 4, episode 8 as 5. Why skip the episodes? Hell, the more that are skipped, the more confusing it gets.

Case #1: River. For the first two episodes, River is barely sane... she can barely utter a coherent sentence. Then suddenly, in the fourth episode, she's editing philosophy that is thousands of years old. Then, whenever FOX decides to get air the episodes in between, River will be incoherent again. This is CONFUSING. People won't know what's going on... you'll alienate those who don't know the proper order.

Case #2: The Kaylee/Simon relationship. In Jaynestown, it takes an important step forward. Are we supposed to simply ignore it when the next episode comes around and the characters are acting like the development in the previous episode never existed? Again, confusing, and JUST PLAIN STUPID!

Case #3: In Jaynestown, major developments in Jayne's character are made... developments that change his views of his life. Are we now supposed to watch him act the way he acted before the event that pretty much defines who he now is?

We need to make it clear that we, as an audience, will not tolerate this crap! It's infuriating, to say the least, that Fox has absolutely no respect for its viewers or the people creating the show they are airing.

Online petitions don't work... email doesn't work, But we need to make our views known to the higher-ups at Fox. We can't allow them to jerk us around the way they do. If we do allow it, we'll just get more of the same treatment in the future. I mean, what if a major plot arc starts up? Will they ruin the narrative and air those episodes out of order? Imagine how mad that would make you.

--Dylan Palmer, Pretentious Bastard at Large--

"Oh my god, I'm a hack!" - Joss Whedon

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Friday, October 18, 2002 3:24 PM

HAKEN

Likes to mess with stuffs.

Okay, this is one of those instances where a Firefly writer's comment would be appreciated.

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Friday, October 18, 2002 4:46 PM

DELVO

1. I just took it as an indication that her condition's symptoms change and fluctuate. Such is the case with many mental disorders, neurological diseases, and drug afflictions. Are you saying you're read advanced scripts and seen the point at which she "opens up" and never goes back? That in itself would be weird writing, to establish a character with a few episodes and then replace her with a new character in the same body for the rest of the series. (PS: Did anybody else wonder why she would have a thing about hair, or did you all just take it as meaning she's easily scared by almost anything? And did anyone else think Book looked like Einstein?)

2. This did bother me, but not for the same reason. I didn't want them to deliver the resolution of their relationship so quickly; it would have been better to drag it out a lot more. But then I saw at the end of the same episode that nothing had really changed, which solves both of our problems.

3. Again, are you saying you've seen that Jayne changes in later episodes and never acts like his old self again? Because it didn't look to me like we can sensibly assume that'll be the case. I was expecting this might be a faint beginning of a gradual character evolution, or something he'd think about occasionally but still be basicly himself most of the time, something like that. People don't change instantaneously, especially no this type. And it would be strange writing indeed to have yet ANOTHER character replace himself so thoroughly within a quarter of one season.

In general, I agree that scrambling episode order is bad (and I wasn't aware they were doing it, other than with the pilot episode). But I don't think we've seen anything yet that'll be singular enough to matter.

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Saturday, October 19, 2002 5:29 AM

NOVAGRASS

Relationships and characters can change through the span of one episode, and these changes can stick (it's called continuity, and it adds to the complexity of the characters). Jayne learned in Jaynestown about being a hero, and his outlook on life was changed completely. It would be horrid writing to have him go back to the way he was before, ignoring this major character development. Perhaps the change in his behavior will be miniscule, but it is a change nonetheless, and people will notice.

While I do understand that this episode in particular did not *really* change anything, it's very likely that the next epiosode will (it's a major episode in the continuity, we're told). They're showing these episodes (six, seven, and eight) before they show episodes three and four. There will, most definately, be errors caused in the narrative due to this mix-up. Think about if you switched the order of a Buffy or Angel season... it would totally ruin the series. I presume that the same will be true for Firefly.

You may be able to defend it, but I cannot tolerate this crap. Their intentions may be to show the best episodes first, to hook viewers, but this will do exactly the opposite. It will confuse the hell out of potential regular viewers, and they might be chased away due to this.

--Dylan Palmer, Pretentious Bastard at Large--

"Oh my god, I'm a hack!" - Joss Whedon

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Saturday, October 19, 2002 5:55 AM

YEAHITSME

are you sure that FOX is responsible for this? Are you sure it's not Joss and the writer that decided it would be more logical if it aired in that order for some reason?

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Saturday, October 19, 2002 6:31 AM

DELVO

Quote:
Jayne learned in Jaynestown about being a hero, and his outlook on life was changed completely.

But there's the catch: why asume that it's going to change him completely, instead of just disturbing him for a bit, and then he moves on? I could tell you of a couple of rather radical things that have happened in my life that haven't changed me. And if he's still his old self later on, that wouldn't mean "going back".

Wide swings in character behavior based on a single event tend to be a cheap, overblown, shallow way to make things seem deeply emotional for melodrama. What Jayne went through is intense, but not the kind of thing that's going to really alter the nature of a man like him.

And WHAT would be the point of establishing a character in just a few episodes, and describing him that way in all the show literature, only to re-invent him into someone else in one episode less than halfway through the first season? Where's the investment in the original version?

If changing the episode order turns out to make Jayne's character look inconsistent, it won't be because changing the episode order ruined a good character development. It will be because it revealed cheesey, rushed overdevelopment from bad writing. He SHOULDN'T change because of one little incident.

Ya, I know... blasphemy... Joss is great, Joss is good, let us thank Him for our food, Amen... after all, the creator of two of the sorriest TV shows around can't possibly do anything less than perfect...

Fortunately, though, in the real world, I'm not expecting the writing and character development to be that haphazard, spastic, and jerky, so I'm not expecting there to be a problem for the wrong episode order to reveal.

Still, I agree with you on principle: episodes should be shown in the order they're supposed to happen in. What the reasons for and against it might be is not the issue; it's just not a decision that the network should get to make.

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Saturday, October 19, 2002 7:32 AM

NOVAGRASS

Every event in your life impacts you in certain ways. Some make more of an impression than others. I happen to think that something like this would change anyone, and as it was implied at the end of the episode, Jayne had a major change of attitude.

And re-read my post: "Perhaps the change in his behavior will be miniscule, but it is a change nonetheless, and people will notice."

I'm not saying major character overhaul here, chill out. Rather, I'm saying that minor character changes add to the complexity of the story. Would you like to have a two-dimensional character that doesn't change or evolve, remaining stagnant forever? Or would you rather have a character that uses his experiences to react to the situations he's put into, you know, sorta like real people do? Obviously you prefer the former.

--Dylan Palmer, Pretentious Bastard at Large--

"Oh my god, I'm a hack!" - Joss Whedon

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Saturday, October 19, 2002 11:22 AM

QUEENTIYE

Quote:
Originally posted by Delvo:
Ya, I know... blasphemy... Joss is great, Joss is good, let us thank Him for our food, Amen... after all, the creator of two of the sorriest TV shows around can't possibly do anything less than perfect...

LOL!!! Bravo, Delvo! Joss Whedon was NOT the draw for me for this show - it was strictly the premise. O.k. I'll return you to your more meaty discussion here - but I had to chime in with that one...

--QueenTiye, Companion Academy, class of 2006

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Saturday, October 19, 2002 12:57 PM

PEDME84

i highly highly doubt joss would decide to air episodes in this order.

a season has the same dramatic structure as anything else. act one ends on episode 7. they took out the middle of act one and sent us straight to the act finale, which if i'm not mistaken was "our mrs. reynolds" that episode is about revealing more of mal's character to us and to him. he now knows how much he really would love the quiet life with a wife and kids, maybe a ranch. poor mal, what a mean tease.

also, that episode is about cementing the fact that these people are not just employees or fares. it's a family. like when he's all like "i got people with me, people who trust eachother" and she mentions earlier something about crew bickering with eachother.

after the two episodes prior to that, an audience is so not ready to make that step. some of the characters are still strangers to eachother. and then we jump into the beginning of act two where the relationships between all the characters has a different feel them, and we're like, whoa, wait, how'd that happen?

and as for jayne. in joss world at least (cause i rarely pay as much attention to any other series), either episode 6 or 8 or both are like an ep. 7 for one or more of the other characters. this time around it was jayne. i think he now has something else to think about which may help him not to turn river in when a lucrative offer presents itself. but he hasn't transformed. i think we're just supposed to revel in his character and have some fun while still setting the seeds for later on.

and i gotta say, ben edlund is fun

- emily

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