Top Ten Libertarian Themes in Firefly by canttakesky

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Top Ten Libertarian Themes in Firefly

POSTED BY: CANTTAKESKY
UPDATED: Tuesday, May 10, 2005 16:21
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Wednesday, April 27, 2005 6:59 PM

I'm trying to sell Firefly /Serenity to the libertarian crowd. I would like to post something eye-catching that can be circulated such as a Top Ten list.

Top Ten Libertarian Themes in Firefly

1. Civilians protect themselves with guns a lot. And no one feels guilty about it.

2. Prostitution is legal. And society doesn't fall apart.

3. The crew of the protagonist spaceship, Serenity, doesn't like to depend on the government to solve their problems. Even when they're being shot at.

4. Just as often as not, it's the government that's shooting at them.

5. The bad guys are called "the Feds."

6. We're pretty sure our heroes don't pay taxes.

7. They love the free market. Like stealing from the rich, and selling to the poor.

8. No matter how far the government's rule extends, Serenity flies out into space a little farther. Even if it means she runs out of gas.

It's late and I'm running out of ideas. What else can you think of?

Thanks,

Can't Take My Gorram Sky

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Wednesday, April 27, 2005 7:23 PM

SOUPCATCHER

Maybe suggest they listen to the segment of his radio show that Ernest Hancock devoted to Firefly? Here's the thread (ah, I see you posted at the end

):
http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=3648
Here's the link to the particular segment via mp3:
http://www.ernesthancock.com/archive/index.cgi?2004-03-08-Ernie

---------------------
Next up: Early "Nutcrusher" Jubal and the Firebuggers

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Wednesday, April 27, 2005 7:40 PM

SERGEANTX

You know, I've thought about this quite a lot, and apart from the basic themes of individualism, I don't think there is any kind of Libertarian message in the series, or at least nothing like an endorsement. If anything I think Joss was setting up Mal's anti-government credo for a fall.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Thursday, April 28, 2005 7:44 AM

CANTTAKESKY

SergeantX,

I've thought about that too. I know Joss is liberal, rather than conservative, so I don't suspect that he would preach libertarianism through his show. I believe the reason why Whedon's shows are successful is because there are no "hidden" political messages.

However, that doesn't mean libertarians can't find and enjoy anti-authoritarian themes. There are a few things in the Firefly Verse consistent with the ideology of "Freedom good, government bad." I'm trying to highlight these aspects to get otherwise uninterested libertarians to take a peek.

Besides my list is meant to be more funny than accurate. Libertarians don't really support stealing from the rich, or anyone, for example. (Although they would be perfectly happy with selling to the poor. Haha.)

So, folks, please help me recruit these contrarians who don't like government. :) Thanks.

Can't Take My Gorram Sky

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Thursday, April 28, 2005 8:53 AM

SIMONF

A recent quote regarding Tim Minear and Firefly which may have some bearing for this discussion.

Quote:
And speaking of Samizdata (and serendipity), it turns out that the short-lived "Firefly" was Perry DeHavilland's favorite TV show ever, I suppose because of the free market philosophy that Tim Minear somehow sneaked into it, so he was delighted to meet Tim. (Who was surprised to hear Perry remark on how "politically sound" the show was: "Not many people picked up on that.") Well, there was that outer space/Western ode-to-liberty song over the opening titles: "Yew cain't take the sky from me..."

From Cathy's World

http://cathyseipp.journalspace.com/?entryid=513

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Thursday, April 28, 2005 9:20 AM

CARNYASADA

9. Women carry guns and kick ass, too. And don't feel terribly guilty about it.

10. In practice, law is local. If settlers want to get married by putting a garland of flowers on their head and having a dance, good for them.

I think it's an interesting exercise, but agree that other than the strong individualism that comes with a western/frontier theme, the show doesn't really have a coherent political philosophy. If you gave me a moment, I could probably come up with "Top Ten Communist Themes in Firefly."

(1. All power emanates from the barrel of a gun. 2. The bourgeois power elite subjugate women through prostitution 3. The worker-crew shares the fruits of their labor without having to support the capitalist parasites... )

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Thursday, April 28, 2005 9:31 AM

CANTTAKESKY

Quote:
Originally posted by Carnyasada:
9. Women carry guns and kick ass, too. And don't feel terribly guilty about it.

10. In practice, law is local. If settlers want to get married by putting a garland of flowers on their head and having a dance, good for them.

Hey, those are good! Thanks!

(I knew browncoats wouldn't let me down, even if it goes against their own politics.)

Quote:
If you gave me a moment, I could probably come up with "Top Ten Communist Themes in Firefly."

Your point (and SergeantX's point) is well taken. I agree. I've thought about it, and will change the title of the list to: Top 10 reasons why libertarians might enjoy Firefly. That should take it away from implying there are libertarian "messages" in the show. How's that?

Can't Take My Gorram Sky

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Thursday, April 28, 2005 12:35 PM

CHRISISALL

In martial arts, there are forms and rehearsed motions, and then there is the reality of an actual fight.
Likewise, politics are divided into set (and some not so set) theories on how government and economy should work, and then there is the reality of the actual process.
We don't need more government that is somewhat effective, we need less government that is highly effective- and just. I DARE ANYONE from ANY political position to disagree with that statement!

See? What works (as well as what doesn't) is not owned by any one group.
When Mal kicked that guy into the intake in Train Job, was he being leftist or rightist in that action? Answer: neither, he was protectin' his crew, period.

Libertarian(purely for example) is like Aikido(again, purely for example), a lot of times it works, but it doesn't have the answers for every situation.

The Buddah Chrisisall

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Friday, April 29, 2005 12:32 PM

CANTTAKESKY

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Libertarian(purely for example) is like Aikido(again, purely for example), a lot of times it works, but it doesn't have the answers for every situation.

I couldn't agree with you more.

In fact, going back to Carnyasada's point, I believe the politics of Firefly would have ultimately revealed that the Alliance is the demon-spawn love child of Capitalism (the Blue Sun Corporation) and Fascism. I like capitalism and the free market. But it is NOT the answer to every situation, especially when the market is less "free" and becomes entwined in government regulation. Personally, I see Corporatism as a corrupt mutation of the free market, that allows abdication of responsibility while maintaining the false appearance of free market competition. I speculate that Firefly would have developed Corporatism as a character (Blue Sun) that got in bed with government ( and the powerful forces of coercion) and eventually evolved into the Alliance. This would be quite entertaining for Communist browncoats, I'm sure. :)

Can't Take My Gorram Sky

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Friday, April 29, 2005 12:49 PM

CHRISISALL

That was great.

Chrisisall

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Tuesday, May 10, 2005 4:21 PM

the movie is not the Series. Only the facts have been changed, to irritate the innocent; the names of the actors and characters remain the same

Never mind. canttakesky addressed my point in another post in this thread.

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