Dollhouse: Vows -- Echo finally gets hitched! Post your comments about the season premiere here. by Haken

DOLLHOUSE

Dollhouse: Vows -- Echo finally gets hitched! Post your comments about the season premiere here.

POSTED BY: HAKEN
UPDATED: Sunday, October 4, 2009 21:32
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VIEWED: 4585
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Friday, September 25, 2009 8:50 PM

Likes to mess with stuffs.

Yep, Echo is at it again with 13 more engagements. I don't know about you all, but this episode needs to hit the ground running and set the tone for the rest of the season.

Watch tonight's Dollhouse season premiere and post your reactions here.

Did Dollhouse pickup where it left off? Or is it back to square one? I, for one, certainly hope not. Been there, done that, can't wait another half a season for things to start rolling along.

Anyway, your thoughts?

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Friday, September 25, 2009 9:08 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!

Amy Acker was awesome.

Topher seemed like a human.

All the characters got to exercise charisma for a change.

More Joss jokes.

+1

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Saturday, September 26, 2009 5:13 AM

MSA

Definitely good... I am glad they are finally letting characters come through... that's why we enjoy Joss... the characters. T'was awesome

To love someone is to see a miracle invisible to others.
--Francois Mauriac
It's fuzzy-minded liberal thinking like that that gets you eaten.

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Saturday, September 26, 2009 7:18 AM

SUASOR

Yeah, but only 2.56 million showed up to share all this goodness. Then again, those were pretty good numbers for BSG.

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Saturday, September 26, 2009 1:34 PM

ASARIAN

Quote:
Originally posted by piratenews:
Amy Acker was awesome.

Topher seemed like a human.

All the characters got to exercise charisma for a change.

More Joss jokes.

+1

I agree with everything, word for word.

+1

--
"I am all of them; but none of them is me." -- Echo

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Monday, September 28, 2009 4:55 AM

ZEEK

Was it just me or did that seem like it would have made a better season finale than Omega? That episode set the tone more for this season then the finale did. We find out what Ballard is up to. Whiskey goes out with a bang. We get Alexis as a new threat. Then we end with Echo finally showing some potential.

At least there seems to be some direction. Hopefully the next few episodes build on that.

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Monday, September 28, 2009 5:53 AM

BLACKOUTNIGHTS

I think this story established two things. One: the introduction of a new "agent" attempting to take down the Dollhouse, and Two: Echo's beginning to remember more and teaming up with Ballard.

Except for the fight at the end with Echo, it was really, freaking boring. It didn't seem like anyone was into character; like the actors were shocked to even being back. Really, I think Amy Acker did a great job, not to mention she's hawt as hell, and it's unfortunate she won't be a regular this season.

I don't know what's going to happen, but if they're looking for new viewers, they've got a LOT of work to do. I think the second episode will be better and that ratings will gradually climb. But the soap opera's going to have to take a back seat for a while and come in small bits so each episode can stand on its own if they want to increase the audience.

Truthfully, right now I'm not really fascinated by any of the characters.

Great review here:
http://www.nj.com/entertainment/tv/index.ssf/2009/09/dollhouse_vows_re
viewing_the_s.html

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Monday, September 28, 2009 8:47 AM

MANGOLO

I watched it on Hulu and the first time I fell asleep 10 minutes in. The second time I watched I was really bored during the first half which the characters seemed to be muddling through although I really enjoyed the second half, I don't know if I want to watch the show only to see it canceled before we really get anywhere...and it doesn't look promising unless Joss has some guaranty that he gets to finish the season no matter what the numbers:

http://tvbythenumbers.com/2009/09/27/dollhouse-ratings-for-vows-septem
ber-25-2009-with-dvr-projections/28562

Defying Gravity (which wasn't very good) has five more COMPLETED episodes, but you won't be seeing them anytime soon unless you live in Canada.

Defying Gravity's last episode pulled in 2.53m and Dollhouse pulled in 2.56m....not good.

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Monday, September 28, 2009 9:53 AM

BYTEMITE

I've been watching Topher's development with some interest, because right from the beginning I had a feeling that he was being intentionally written as a smug snake scrappy, just so that Joss could save him through character development. More and more that's looking to be the case.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheScrappy

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RescuedFromTheScrappyHeap

It's also very likely that after people find Topher a sympathetic, likeable character doing the best job he can in a bad business, Joss will have him cross a moral event horizon where people will start hating him again. Hey, it's good storytelling!

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MoralEventHorizon

Besides, in my personal opinion, he already did it with Ballard. Ballard is very clearly not the protagonist of this series. First he uses Mellie, has rough sex if not rapes her, then smacks a concussed Echo around? I kept thinking that the girlfriend hitting freak comment that Echo shot at the arms dealer applied equally to Ballard. It's creepy and wrong, and even more wrong when he became her handler. I'm pretty sure that's the point too. The madam of the Dollhouse has Ballard pegged.

However, I am so absolutely positive that the little wedding night montage that kept cutting to Ballard trying to distract himself from what he knows is going on was SOOO totally something Joss planned for Mal and Inara in Firefly at some point. So I also enjoyed that, because I could tell, it was obvious.

And I also enjoyed Dr. Saunders deciding to run.

The rest of it, yeaaaaaah, kind of boring.

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Monday, September 28, 2009 9:06 PM

SHINY

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
Ballard is very clearly not the protagonist of this series. First he uses Mellie, has rough sex if not rapes her, then smacks a concussed Echo around? I kept thinking that the girlfriend hitting freak comment that Echo shot at the arms dealer applied equally to Ballard. It's creepy and wrong,

Seems a little less cut-and-dry to me since they would both have been killed (if not tortured first) if he couldn't trigger the bad-ass-fighter-imprint.

---

I don't need a gorram back-spaceship driver!!!

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Tuesday, September 29, 2009 3:47 AM

BYTEMITE

I know it's not cut and dry, and yeah, I give some credit for figuring out what was really happening with Echo and using it, but that doesn't make that the ONLY option they had, nor does it make it right. It was the easy way out, to hit Echo and exacerbate the trauma she's going through. If he REALLY cared about Echo, he wouldn't have put Echo up to the engagement in the first place! That little scene, where he's torturing himself while she's out having sex with the arms dealer (which, I'm sorry, but because Caroline and Echo aren't aware of it, I consider it rape), that's his fault too.

Ends don't justify the means. Ballard knows it's not right, did it anyway, because he felt he was justified. This will let me catch this arm dealer I've been after. Just like with Mellie. This will let me get to the Dollhouse and save the dolls. And again, when he apologizes to Echo for what he did, and then goes on to perpetuate the abuse Echo is being made to endure by becoming her handler. This will let me help her.

When he got to the Dollhouse, did he save the dolls? No, though he made a deal to free November out of guilt, not because he cared for her. Is he going to save Echo? We'll see, but I doubt it.

Ballard's a conflicted character, and he recognizes what's wrong, but in each case he keeps falling on the side of unethical and selfish. They say you can tell who's a hero by what you do when faced with the hard choices. Ballard isn't a heroic character.

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Saturday, October 3, 2009 9:37 PM

ASARIAN

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
I know it's not cut and dry, and yeah, I give some credit for figuring out what was really happening with Echo and using it, but that doesn't make that the ONLY option they had, nor does it make it right. It was the easy way out, to hit Echo and exacerbate the trauma she's going through. If he REALLY cared about Echo, he wouldn't have put Echo up to the engagement in the first place! That little scene, where he's torturing himself while she's out having sex with the arms dealer (which, I'm sorry, but because Caroline and Echo aren't aware of it, I consider it rape), that's his fault too.

Ends don't justify the means. Ballard knows it's not right, did it anyway, because he felt he was justified. This will let me catch this arm dealer I've been after. Just like with Mellie. This will let me get to the Dollhouse and save the dolls. And again, when he apologizes to Echo for what he did, and then goes on to perpetuate the abuse Echo is being made to endure by becoming her handler. This will let me help her.

When he got to the Dollhouse, did he save the dolls? No, though he made a deal to free November out of guilt, not because he cared for her. Is he going to save Echo? We'll see, but I doubt it.

Ballard's a conflicted character, and he recognizes what's wrong, but in each case he keeps falling on the side of unethical and selfish. They say you can tell who's a hero by what you do when faced with the hard choices. Ballard isn't a heroic character.

Might I suggest that, on an overall level, the constant ambiguity is exactly what Joss intended to convey with the show? They ALL rationalize. Adelle genuinely believed she could help people when she took the job. Boyd, ex cop, is there, yes, why really? He thoroughly disapproves, and yet goes along with everything nonetheless. The lovely Dr. Saunders, she despises Topher and all he stands for; but she too never quit (even though her imprinted persona apparently allows for disloyalty to the House). Mr. Dominic, fancying himself to keep things in check for the larger benefit of humanity, is complicit to keeping the show running to the highest degree. And Ballard himself, yes, he gets drawn in too, deluding himself he's working to destroy the Dollhouse from the inside out.

So, perhaps, as a commentary on man's uncanning ability to become entangled in a web of lies and deceit, with no shortage of denial and justification, Dollhouse is not as great a failure as the superficial story about pimping out hot girls really is. Never thought about it that way before, really. :) Maybe it was never really about whether or not it's prostitution, human trafficing, rape, etc. Maybe it was really just that: a huge stage to show us how people get drawn into doing things they never thought they'd do. How easy and gradual we become co-conspirators to the evils of our day.

--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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Saturday, October 3, 2009 10:04 PM

MANGOLO

Quote:
Originally posted by asarian:
Might I suggest that, on an overall level, the constant ambiguity is exactly what Joss intended to convey with the show?

I concur. Joss truly enjoys a challenge in writing. Breaking certain conventions. What are actors but Dolls in Joss' Dollhouse of Dollhouses? It is an incredible metaphor for the business he is actually in - selling dreams in multi-million dollar human meat driven packages - show business. I have been intrigued with the premise from the beginning, but the execution has me at a loss.

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Sunday, October 4, 2009 6:25 AM

BYTEMITE

Oh, I AGREE that this is Joss' intention, which is why I wanted to point it out.

Doesn't mean I have to like Ballard's character, which I don't, even though I can appreciate the puppet strings that are making him work. The problem with Ballard, the reason I don't like him, are the moments like this, and the way that these actions skirt the line of spinning him into a heroic character who's just caught in a hard place.

Some here clearly interpret him as heroic. That's fine, they're entitled to their opinion, but I find Ballard more than a little disturbing because unlike the other characters, he seems to be completely unaware of his justifications, so I see him as having the potential to do the greatest amount of damage.

Remember the line in the movie Serenity? "A hero is someone who gets other people killed." I think we're going to see that here.

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Sunday, October 4, 2009 9:32 PM

SHINYGOODGUY

Asarian

So, perhaps, as a commentary on man's uncanning ability to become entangled in a web of lies and deceit, with no shortage of denial and justification, Dollhouse is not as great a failure as the superficial story about pimping out hot girls really is. Never thought about it that way before, really. :) Maybe it was never really about whether or not it's prostitution, human trafficing, rape, etc. Maybe it was really just that: a huge stage to show us how people get drawn into doing things they never thought they'd do. How easy and gradual we become co-conspirators to the evils of our day.
----------------------------------------------------
I agree.
You make some very good points and astute observations. Joss' writing has become more profound, but he needs to bring the character development on stronger and less exposition.

I do very much like ep 2 - Instinct - a lot better since I began to think of some of the themes he brought out with Echo and then the dad. Very good indeed, but not strong enough. There should be more eps with Harry Lennix as Boyd (his strongest character aside from Dr. Saunders). The actor playing Ballard doesn't convince me. Miracle Laurie (Mellie/November) is strong as well, she conveys so much more than Eliza ever could in just a few minutes.

Speaking of which, I believe Mellie is still under the influence and was never really wiped, but actually re-programmed. Just a hunch.

SGG

Tawabawho?

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