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Originally posted by GravityDrive:
Reminds me of the very first Colt revolver...a Navy issue just prior to the Civil War--- long barrel & relatively small cylinder, with a neat little doohick underneath the barrel flaring out to connect with the cylinder.

Sorry...(I'm not that much of a gunnie)...but it's a neat reference.

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Originally posted by GravityDrive:
Reminds me of the very first Colt revolver...a Navy issue just prior to the Civil War--- long barrel & relatively small cylinder, with a neat little doohick underneath the barrel flaring out to connect with the cylinder.

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Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Taurus (taurususa.com) has been making 8 shot revolvers for a while.

--Anthony

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Mal's gun does have magazine

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Originally posted by izazombie:
Hey all,
Jaynes gun is a Lemat. Very little modification has been done to it, just a stanag rainl on the top.

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Mal's gun does have magazine, but I couldn't figure out what the frame was...
will keep looking

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Originally posted by Guildsister:

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Mal's gun does have magazine

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Notice it has no hammer? Makes an electronic whine when he cocks it.

Guildsister

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Originally posted by Singleton:
Mal's gun is a modified Taurus .38 Cal revolver. The grip frame was cut off and a new one machined and welded on, to resemble the grip of an old single-action revolver, the barrel was cut down and a new octagonal barrel made for it, along with the other added pieces to make it look so unique.
It was made by Applied Effects.
http://www.appliedfx.com/services.htm
Mouse over the Physical Effects link and you can see a couple of small shots of the gun.

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Jayne's pistol is definitely built on a LeMat, the top barrel rib and some kind of chrome, vented sheathing for the lower shotgun barrel were added. Not much other than that, on jayne's piece.

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Zoe's favorite sawn off lever-action Winchester is one piece you can actually get in an AirSoft gun, if you want one. Ain't cheap, but it's almost exactly what she carries.

Joe

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Originally posted by Singleton:
I'm not sure why they chose that route with Mal's gun, but partly it might be that the Taurus is still a shooting piece, reloadable with little effort, whereas, it'd take pyro FX to make a black powder gun shoot every time. Cartridges are just that much more reliable and simple. Plus, designing parts in the computer and using rapid prototyping, you can make the part quickly and relatively cheaply. From there you just make a mold and cast the metal. The grip was designed and machined specially for the gun, not taken from an existing gun.

You're right, though. Using a Remington or old Coly black powder frame and a cartridge conversion kit, all you need to make are the cosmetic outer parts.

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Originally posted by Singleton:
I'm not sure why they chose that route with Mal's gun, but partly it might be that the Taurus is still a shooting piece, reloadable with little effort, whereas, it'd take pyro FX to make a black powder gun shoot every time. Cartridges are just that much more reliable and simple.

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The assumption that most people are making is that Mal's -- and other's -- gun(s) are actually functioning firearms. They're not. They just have to look like firearms.

A few years ago, I restored a prop gun. And it was a lot of work to turn it back into a shooting firearm. This particular firearm was a Marlin model 1898 12-gauge pump action shotgun. (Rare!) When I got it, there was a large bolt welded into the chamber so that you couldn't put a shell into it. The firing pin was broken off and the firing pin hole in the breech-bolt was welded closed. The frame was squeezed a bit so that a round couldn't be inserted into the gun, and the main spring was replaced with a strip of thin springy steel cut from a band-strap -- you know, the kind of thin steel strap that you use to tie stuff onto a wooden pallet with.

Most actors really don't know much about firearms, and the studio's don't want actors to do something stupid with functioning guns. (A few years ago, an actor killed himself by firing a blank into his head -- he was just goofing around.) So they are made -- or converted -- so that they won't actually fire anything.

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Plus, designing parts in the computer and using rapid prototyping, you can make the part quickly and relatively cheaply. From there you just make a mold and cast the metal. The grip was designed and machined specially for the gun, not taken from an existing gun.

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If you've actually done that sort of thing, you know that it's not as easy as that. It takes a lot of work to "just make the mold and cast the metal." It's easier to just modify an existing part. Believe me, I've done a lot of prototyping over the last thirty years.

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One of the things I like about Firefly is the weapons. Sure, I love blasters and such, but it makes sense that, on a frontier, you'd stick with a lower tech option, that can be repaired at that level. Cartridges are cheap and reliable, and they're easy to reload, which would probably be a cottage industry on these recently settled worlds.

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You got that right! Kinda reminds me of something that Science Fiction novelist Robert Heinlein wrote about settling a new world. In this particular case, it was about horses. He said, horses can make more horses, which is something that tractors will never be able to do.

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As for the sawn off carbine...in 44-40 (or .44 Magnum, as my Rossi lever-action carbine was) that shortened magazine and barrel would be less of a problem and you'd still have a reasonable amount of control. In any rifle cartridge, you'd lose so much mag capacity, it'd be worse than useless.

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It's still a two-handed gun, and not one that is either easy or comfortable to shoot. Besides,the Winchester model '92 wasn't chambered in a "rifle" cartridge. The only cartridges it was actually chambered for were .25-20, .32-20, .38-40 and .44-40.

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I was glad to see wheelguns in Firefly, I'm a fan of revolvers and I think there's still a place for them. Hell, the real reason high capacity semi-autos are so popular these days is that nobody can shoot worth a shit. Spray and Pray. ugh.

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High-cap auto's have come into vogue mostly because police can't shoot worth a damn. The primary advantage of the auto-loader is that it can be reloaded quickly. This is also the primary disadvantage of many -- mostly single action -- revolvers. With Safarilands spring loaded speed-loaders or full moon clips, a really good revolver shooter can shoot and reload just as fast as a good auto shooter -- they just have to reload more often.

A few years ago, I shot against the LAPD on the speed and accuracy section of their advanced pistol course. Using a brace of single action revolvers, I beat 90 percent of the Los Angeles Police Department. (I went back the next year, shot my .45 auto, and beat 97 percent of the LAPD.)

Just sayin'

Loadandmakeready

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Originally posted by MacBaker:
Actually, with the popularity of "Cowboy Action Shooting" competetions and events, old west guns have never been more popular. Several makers produce new guns that have a black powder style frame, but use modern cartridge ammo. I can't remember off the top of my head, but I know at least two companies make quality firing replica's of the old Remington design single action pistol. Several other manufacturers (including Beretta, believe it or not) make Colt SSA clones, and the prices are reasonable.

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I found this gun during a search, and it's not Mal's gun, but it has a similar "auto" meets "Revolver" look to it.
http://www.awaguns.com/matebaautorevolver.asp

Here's a modern copy of a Remington single action pistol.
http://www.emf-company.com/1875-remington-single-action-revolver.htm

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Navy Arms makes a black powder version in this style.
http://www.navyarms.com/html/solid_frame_per.html

Navy Arms also makes a modern black powder copy of a Le Mat pistol.
http://www.navyarms.com/html/le_mat_rev.html

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Originally posted by LoadAndMakeReady:
I could be wrong here, but If I remember correctly, Beretta doesn't actually make them, they just market either the Uberti or Armi San Marco models.

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Originally posted by MacBaker:
Actually, Beretta now owns Uberti. I'm not sure if Beretta actually makes thier SSA's or has them built by Uberti, but their Stampede line is different from guns in the Uberti line. For one thing, the Stampede's all have transfer bar safeties, very similar to Ruger's design. Their overall fit and finish seem to be better too.

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You are correct about Navy Arms. They are just the importer.

Nothing wrong with Italian copies though.

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The unique Mateba Auto-revolver is made by Italian gun maker Sergio Mateba. It's a true semi-auto revolver, similar to the Webley Fosbery. When fired, the upper slide and cylinder slide back and forth on the lower frame (the barrel is stationary), cocking the hammer and turning the cylinder. Unlike conventional revolvers that fire the round in the top of the cylinder, the Mateba fires the round from the bottom. Loading and unloading, though, is done like a conventional revolver.
http://www.randgfirearms.com/mateba.html
http://www.securityarms.com/20010315/galleryfiles/1100/1143.htm


The Mateba isn't Mal's gun, but it's the closest thing I've seen to a working version of what he carries. The only major difference is that rounds are loaded in a cylinder, not a magazine.

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Originally posted by LoadAndMakeReady:
Transfer bars...

I hate those blasted transfer bars. Which is why I'll never buy a new Ruger.

Take a look at the Dardick automatic revolver:

http://www.wapahani.com/pistols2.html

Another kind of automatic revolver -- or revolving automatic if you wish.

It had a magazine in the grip which fed a cylinder with open chambers. The rounds, or "TROUNDS" were triangular in shape, and the cylinder formed two sides of the triangle. The top strap formed the third side. The magazine fed the cylinder which rotated the tround to the top where it was fired like a conventional revolver, and as the cylinder rotated to fire the next tround, the empty case fell out on the exposed side.

The things some people think of...

loadandmakeready

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Originally posted by LoadAndMakeReady:

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Nothing wrong with Italian copies though.

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Nothing a little quality control couldn't cure. The first two Uberti SAA's I bought had swamped barrels -- swamped on the inside! The Armi San Marco SAA I bought had between three and twelve thousandths mis-alignment between the chambers and the barrel. The Uberti's weren't much better in that department either. My Uberti replica of the Remington 1875 not only felt like it had gravel in the action, it had oversize chambers, mis-aligned chambers, and the bore in the breech end of the barrel was about three thousandths smaller than the rest of the bore. Also, the front sight was too short. Which made the gun shoot a foot high at 15 yards -- elevation was right on at 125 yards however.

The Uberti model 1866 Winchester replica had too much head-space, a gritty action, and the timing of the breech-bolt and rising block were off so severely that it would bind the case up on ejection.

But that's okay, Colt quality isn't much better, and Colt's cost three times as much. loadandmakeready

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Originally posted by MacBaker:What's the problem with transfer bar safeties? Not arguing with you, just wondering what your beef with them is. Seems like a good solution to a serious problem with classic SSA's.

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What was that page that you linked? A page of bad handgun designs? The Dardick is an ugly mess of a design, that never caught on (thankfully).

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The Bren Ten was a great idea, but was full of problems, the biggest being a shortage of magazines that would work properly in the gun. Miami Vice made it famous, but the original CZ-75 was superior in almost every way. The original DA Browning was also problematic, and it went through a serious re-design before it became a decent, reliable firearm. The original Hi-Power is still better IMO.

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I tend to agree that SA revolvers are much nicer handling guns than DA models. I never liked any of the DA revolvers I ever owned (which is why I don't own any now).

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I do prefer semi-auto pistols though. Not high-cap wonder nines, but good designs in 40S&W and 45ACP. I own a Beretta 96 and a new Springfield XD-40, both in 40cal. and a Kimber 1911 clone in 45, that is better than any Colt version I've ever shot or owned.

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There's a reason old designs like Sam Colt's SSA, and John Browning's 1911 model are still around, and copied so much! They are great firearms, with a history of getting the job done.

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Originally posted by MacBaker:I guess I should have qualified that. I understand that earlier Colt clones had spotty quality contol issues, but recient reviews I've read, are that they are much improved, and better than Colt's recient offerings. No surprise there. Colt isn't what they used to be. For example, I love the 1911 design, and Colt is the last company I would buy one from. I'd much rather purchase a 1911 from Kimber, Springfield Armory, or Wilson. Kimber won a large contract to build guns for the LAPD SWAT teams, Springfield won a major contract with the FBI, and Bill Wilson's shop has been building 1911's for US Special Forces for years. When was the last time Colt won a pistol contract? Even Smith & Wesson, and SIGarms are now producing 1911 designs that I would consider before ever buying another Colt pistol.

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Originally posted by LoadAndMakeReady:
I don't particularly care for the 40-S&W myself, but then again it's a matter of taste. Do you reload? Do you live in Southern California? If so, I can give you 5,000+ .40 cases, tumbled and ready to reload.

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Originally posted by MacBaker:
The 40S&W is very simlar to the 45ACP in stopping power, and it works well in guns originally designed for the under powered 9mm.

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Reciently Glock came out with the 45GAP round, which is basically a 45ACP in a shorter case (with a small pistol primer), that will also work in pistols designed around the 9mm. Glock and Springfield Armory's XD line, already offer pistols chambered in 45GAP, and I'm sure more manufacturers will follow.

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I like the 40, because so many law enforcement agencies have adopted it, and cheap practice ammo is easy to find.

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I work in L.A. often (almost half the year), but choose to keep my firearms back home in the midwest, where the laws are less draconian, and the ranges are plentiful.

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Thanks for the offer though. I reload, but never seem to have time to load as many as I shoot. Always playing catch up! LOL

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Originally posted by LoadAndMakeReady:
I suppose that depends on who's doing the loading.

The heaviest bullet I've seen for the 40 S&W is 190 grains. With a muzzle velocity of 1,000 fps. This load would have a muzzle energy of 422 ft./lbs. and an "efficacy" number (muzzle energy X area) of 53.

A 185 grain bullet in 45 ACP will have a muzzle velocity of 1,300 fps. Which gives it a muzzle energy of 642 ft./lbs., and an efficacy number of 103. Which is a 50% increase over the .40. Not exactly what I would call "similar."

Although factory 9-mm's are rather wimpy, I load a 125 grain bullet with an average muzzle velocity of 1325 fps. Which gives it a muzzle energy of 487 ft./lbs. (Compared to the .40's 422 ft./lbs.) and an efficacy number of 49. (Compared to the 53 of the 40-S&W.) This is approaching 367 Magnum ranges.

In the 44 Magnum, I have a load that uses a 255 grain bullet with a M.V. of 1600 fps. Which gives it a muzzle energy of 1449 foot pounds, and an efficacy number of 210. If I shoot that same load in my rifle, I get a muzzle velocity of 1900 fps, muzzle energy of 2044 ft./lbs., and an efficacy number of 295.

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Originally posted by LoadAndMakeReady:
I've heard about the 45GAP. And frankly, I'm not impressed. They continue to try to find something "new" in order to boost sales.

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Originally posted by LoadAndMakeReady:
I don't have much respect for law enforcement agencies, so I tend to look down on what they do.

http://www.john-ross.net/police_skills.htm

His experience mirrors mine.

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Originally posted by LoadAndMakeReady:
And as far as reloading is concerned, I can load 1,000 rounds of 45 ACP in six hours. And that includes casting and lube/resizing the bullets. So, 1,000 rounds of 45 ACP costs me about $38 dollars. About the same price as good .22's. My hot 9-mm's are even cheaper.

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Originally posted by LoadAndMakeReady:
"Alliance don't bother me." And neither do their laws. I just ignore them. And where I live, I can drive to the gun club in 20 minutes.

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Originally posted by MacBaker:

Let me rephrase. The 40 has similar stopping power. The 40 is basically a downloaded 10mm, and it has an excellent reputaion for one stop shots. Few 9mm loads come even close. In real world studies of actual shooting results, the 40 is equal to the 45 in certain loads. The only round with a better reputation for one shot stops, is the vaunted 125gr 357 magnum. Since I don't use DA relovers, that leaves me with 40 or 45 caliber pistols. I agree there are 9mm rounds with good results, but I have very little faith in the round. It's a personal preference/phobia. My opinion of the 9mm (in factory loads), is it sucks. I never use reloads for carry, just practice, so I go with factory loads that have reliable reputations.

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There seems to be a market for firearms that fit the wondernine size, but can shoot something more substantial. Glock's 45 meets that demand. Not for me, but it seems to be selling well already. Sig saw a similar need, autos in 357, and came up with the 357sig, which has similar ballistics to the classic 357magnum, in a round that works well in auto-loaders. Again, not my cup of tea, but many shooters swear by it.

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I think it depends on which agency you are talking about. Many local police agencies seem to be lacking, but state troopers are on average are very well trained. You dismissed the LAPD SWAT team in a previous post, and yet they consistently train with elite units like the Navy SEALS and FBI's HRT, and their firearms training program is considered one of the best in the nation.

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Massad Ayoob reciently wrote an article about firearms training in police departments around the country, and from his own research there has been a marked improvement since the 80s (considered a lowpoint, when high cap nines and a "spray and pray" method seemed to prevail).

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I've known several police officers. Some who got into the profession for the wrong reasons and have no business carrying a firearm, and a select few I would be happy to have at my back in a time of crisis. The cops I can't stand, tend to be the ones that spend more time creating revenue writing tickets, than serving and protecting, or the dumb ex-jock types, with something to prove.

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I use a basic Dillon AT-500. It's not that fast. If I get serious about reloading, and have the time to give it, I'll upgrade to something faster like a XL-650.

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I try to obey the laws. Dad was an Attorney (not a scum bag lawyer, there is a difference), and my background is in law enforcement, so it's a built in character flaw. The only laws I tend to break regularly, are speed limits!

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I also break gun laws. For one, I think that the Second amendment is my concealed carry "permit," and as long as I don't violate the rights of person or property of any other individual, no one has any business telling me how to live my life. So, I don't actually obey laws so much as to respect the rights of others. (As long as they do the same to me.)

So, politically, you could say that I'm an Individualist/Capitalist Anarchist.

loadandmakeready

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Originally posted by sloopyjon:
you are some scary people but thats besides the point
some one wants me to make them a "vera" so do any of you know if its totaly scratch built or if there is something under all that cladding if so what?
any insite greatfully recieved
sloopyjon@hotmail.com

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Originally posted by Singleton:
Zoe's favorite sawn off lever-action Winchester is one piece you can actually get in an AirSoft gun, if you want one. Ain't cheap, but it's almost exactly what she carries.

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Originally posted by Singleton:
This is the only place I've found these, but this place has an awesome selection.

http://www.uncompany.com/
search for....
Marushin M1892 Maxi Randall Custom

Marushin M1892 Maxi Randall Custom (SV)

Ain't cheap, but wood and metal!

Joe

Muscle.
Humor.
Thuggery.
Jayne.

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Originally posted by LoadAndMakeReady:

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Originally posted by Singleton:
I recently got a large-screen TV -- my old TV died after 25+ years -- so I was able to see things a bit better. After examining the LeMat revolver, and seeing things better on the larger screen, it is definitely the LeMat! Aside from the sheathing on the S/G barrel they installed an aluminum Picatinny rail on the barrel.

The Picatinny rail is used for mounting a scope -- although no scope was actually mounted.

Loadandmakeready

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Originally posted by izazombie:
Hey all,
Jaynes gun is a Lemat. Very little modification has been done to it, just a stanag rail on the top.

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Could someone elaborate or clarify this please? I've been searching for Picatinny rails and Stanag rails, and neither appears to match what's on top of the gun in this series of pics:

http://jesse.mrozowski.org/firefly/jayne.html

Google Image Stanag Rail search results:

http://images.google.com/images?q=Stanag+rail&hl=en

Google Image Picatinny rail search results:

http://images.google.com/images?svnum=10&hl=en&lr=&q=Picatinny+rail

Thanks in advance for your help.