A few points by InvaderChat

TERMINATOR: THE SARAH CONNOR CHRONICLES

A few points

POSTED BY: INVADERCHAT
UPDATED: Sunday, March 13, 2011 04:37
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Thursday, December 30, 2010 2:56 AM

Welp, it's been off the air for a while but I figured I'd bring up a few points of discussion and hope there's some people to well...discuss them, I guess.

!!There's a few spoilers below!!

Point number one is 'how the hell did a show based on Terminator fail?' I don't quite get it, yes it is very different but I figured that would bring in a fair fanbase just for the robot killin'.
Admittedly though, I only started watching when season two came out despite being a fan of the movies.

Also, what would people hope for in a third season or this possible straight to DVD/TV movie that has been rumored? I think it had a fairly interesting setup with John in the 'future where there is no John Connor' with Weaver and co. I wonder what his interactions with Allison and Derek would have been like, plus his dad!

One to a few things which I have been asking myself about the show.
Around the end of season two episode five (the one with the military academy) Cameron is sent off to save John from the T-888, we see Derek and John take it out and Cameron is seen watching from the trees nearby. I thought this might be because she was intentionally leaving the T-888 to John to give him room to grow as a fighter for his role in the future but it does kinda go against her typical 'crush anything that threatens John' mentality. Some people think she was actually disobeying with an intent to get him killed or simply didn't get there in time, what do you (yes YOU) think?

Also, what's with Chopin? It doesn't seem to be widely discussed which leads me to believe people may not have noticed but we have Cameron dancing to Chopin's nocturne far earlier than when she mentions as Allison that her mother used to 'sit for hours and listen to Chopin' is that Allison's personality coming through earlier? Are there other signs of this? It also appears in the basement of the place where Derek and the other resistance fighters get held in the future. Who's down there? Allison or Cameron and what kinda horrible torture are they up to?

Hmm, I think that's about it for now folks ^_^

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Thursday, December 30, 2010 3:22 AM

JONGSSTRAW

I watched every episode and generally like the show. I thought the final few episodes of Season 2 were great. I think the show failed to gain a large audience early on because it was slow and confusing from the start, and then they moved it to Friday night before it started to get good.

I mainly tuned in every week to see Summer Glau. Her role continually evolved as she became more "human" in her actions and thoughts. She was really the ONLY thing bringing me back to that show every week. Two episodes that stand out to me with Summer are.....When Summer and Lena go to a fancy party and they get all dolled up; Summer looked so fantastic in her slinky dress. And the last episode which had Summer laying submissively and alluringly on top of a bed. She asks John to come close and open her shirt.

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Friday, December 31, 2010 12:34 AM

INVADERCHAT

I suppose the depth of the plot could have been a turn-off to some people who may have been tuning in to see more of the typical Terminator action. The movies always had a deeper underlying story but it was pretty much overshadowed by the Terminator killin'.

I liked the development of Cameron as well, episode four of season two was amazing. I basically didn't bother with it until I happened to leave the television on while on the computer and saw the first episode of season two (probably my favorite one) and instantly set about getting the DVD of the first season to catch up before episode two aired.

At first I didn't much like John/Dekker (my literal reaction was 'what is this shit?') but he grew on me and now I figure he's more John Connor than anyone else was, I liked how he was gradually becoming less whiny and I didn't MIND Lena Headey as Sarah either, in my opinion she only got better.

The only character that really annoyed me was Riley, curse her.

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Saturday, January 1, 2011 11:52 AM

LWAVES

Quote:
Originally posted by InvaderChat:
Point number one is 'how the hell did a show based on Terminator fail?' I don't quite get it, yes it is very different but I figured that would bring in a fair fanbase just for the robot killin'.

I loved this show pretty much from the word go but my personal opinion, from what I've read, on why it was cancelled (I don't consider it a failure) is this:

1: The more hardcore fans were never going to be happy whatever the case. They wanted the show like the movies which is effectively the same plot in each one - the main characters get chased by one Terminator whilst another protects them. Each week (or even every couple of episodes) this would have got repetitive very quickly and the fans would have gone elsewhere through boredom. The TV show gave a chance to explore the characters in greater detail, to show what really drove Sarah and John to keep going etc. But some folks didn't like this.

2: Some people didn't like the fact that the show centred on Sarah. The clue is in the title, what did they expect. Although I do agree that it may have been better to have been called 'The John Connor Chronicles' and centre around him as he's the important figure in the future.

3: The strike. An easy point to make but I think it hurt the show by stunting the first season. It was too short to really get anything going.

4: Viewers gave up too early. Seems all the more common these days that shows don't get a chance to grow and gain an audience. I've read quite a lot of comments on Terminator sites that say basically the same thing - 'It didn't grab me after a couple of episodes so I stopped watching'.

5: Dollhouse. Only one show was gonna get renewed and Dollhouse won out, for one season so that was well worth it. By Joss's standards this was a poor show. It got better and had moments of greatness but Terminator was way better IMO. I'm sure plenty will disagree.

That's my take on it although there are plenty of other factors that brought about the end.

Quote:

I think it had a fairly interesting setup with John in the 'future where there is no John Connor' with Weaver and co.

I disagree with this comment. The future we see isn't without a John Connor, he's just arrived. We don't know when he gets there but with both Allison and Kyle there you could summise that it's at an early part in the future timeline. Remember, this is an alternate timeline to the movies. In this one we have no idea how John gets to be the leader he becomes. At some point (in every timeline) he is a nobody and through his work/actions becomes the leader they need. My take on it is that John and Weaver work together. It could explain how he gets Terminators on his side, how he learns to re-progam them. Her extensive knowledge of Terminators, their weaknesses, how they react etc would be invaluable. Plus she could infiltrate just about anywhere. All these factors would lead to him becoming the powerful and trusted figure we know.

If there is a movie (I honestly doubt it now but remain hopeful) or we had gotten a third season then the points I make above would have played out. At first John would be put down and not trusted but gradually things would start to turn his way. Also I think it's fairly obvious to state that he would begin a relationship of some kind with Allison. I can't really say how Sarah would fit in to this except that she'd try and get to him in some way. It would probably have meant two diverged plotlines and new characters for Sarah's side of things.

"The greatest invention ever is not the wheel. It's the second wheel." - Rich Hall

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Thursday, January 6, 2011 11:54 PM

INVADERCHAT

Yes you're right. When I said 'fail' I really just meant 'didn't become a crazy super-success with action figures and seven seasons' and I agree with most of your points. I just kinda thought 'well people watch any pile of crap that comes out with 'Star Wars' slapped on it so why not Terminator?' Was I overestimating the popularity of Terminator? I know it's nowhere near as big as Star Wars (just using it as an example) but...well, people know it.

It is sad that audiences aren't as patient with new shows as they seemed to be in the past. As far as I'm concerned it got into the action pretty quick and only got better. I don't agree with Dollhouse being a reason why it didn't become a huge success, yes it was one reason that it was canceled but if TSCC was doing well then there wouldn't even have been a question between the two (I assume that you meant that anyway).

And that is a very interesting take you have on the finale, quite obvious if you think about it I suppose but I guess I just took in the more 'in your face' way of thinking and kinda went with it confirming the fact that John was more a figurehead than anything and that the resistance would still exist without him. Would kind of ruin the whole point of bothering to protect him though so that's probably not right.

I guess what I really meant was that I was expecting John to meet future John or at least be in a future where his adult self is still a legendary figure. I think your take is far more interesting, we would get to see John develop into the hero that he's meant to be while he's right there in the thick of it.

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Friday, January 7, 2011 2:13 AM

LWAVES

Quote:
Originally posted by InvaderChat:
....'well people watch any pile of crap that comes out with 'Star Wars' slapped on it so why not Terminator?' Was I overestimating the popularity of Terminator? I know it's nowhere near as big as Star Wars (just using it as an example) but...well, people know it.

Terminator is extremely popular so I don't think you overestimated it's popularity. At the time I expected it's name alone would bring in a large audience but it didn't appear to. I would say that Star Wars (using your example) is more widespread in popularity terms but the brand covers a much larger area and has a deeper impact into cultural society. I think that once you get to a certain level of 'recognition' then it kind of becomes irrelevant as to who is more popular. Star Wars, Terminator, Star Trek and others reach such a high level that even folks who have never seen them know stuff about them. They enter a sort of Super League of popularity.
Aside from my other points I've read comments that some people didn't like the characters of John and Sarah (or the actors playing them). They found them whiney and out of place with the movie versions. I personally didn't find this. I felt they were right for that particular moment in their lives. They had been living 'Terminator free' for a long while and had started to settle and kind of become normal people (i.e. a typical teenager and Mum). After a few episodes I could start to see where they were going with them and how they might become the characters we know from the movies.

Quote:

I don't agree with Dollhouse being a reason why it didn't become a huge success, yes it was one reason that it was canceled but if TSCC was doing well then there wouldn't even have been a question between the two (I assume that you meant that anyway).

I didn't mean that Dollhouse was bad for TSCC's ratings, only that it was a reason for it's cancellation. But, having said that, Dollhouse S1 was very poor and only improved near the end (with an excellent last episode). IMO TSCC got better all the time and ended S2 on a very strong note. It deserved to be given a chance to explore this in a third season. But Dollhouse won out and we got a mediocre S2 (with some highlights) only for this to be cancelled, leaving us with an ending that was rushed, forced and not particularly great. It just seems like a waste of the great potential in TSCC for Dollhouse, a show that performed way under par.
Of course this is just my view on it and I really wanted Dollhouse to work, because it was Joss, but it didn't work out. It didn't deserve it's second season whereas TSCC did deserve a third.

"The greatest invention ever is not the wheel. It's the second wheel." - Rich Hall

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Friday, January 7, 2011 4:24 AM

TWO

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

Quote:
Originally posted by InvaderChat:
I just kinda thought 'well people watch any pile of crap that comes out with 'Star Wars' slapped on it so why not Terminator?' Was I overestimating the popularity of Terminator?

It is sad that audiences aren't as patient with new shows as they seemed to be in the past. As far as I'm concerned it got into the action pretty quick and only got better.

The early stories were thin as [insert metaphor]. The pilot episode killed Cromartie inside a bank vault then the FBI moved the headless Terminator, which was still powered, to a junkyard where, seven years later in episode 2, an unfortunate roadside trash picker brings the severed head. Could the writers have imagined a lazier, clunkier way to resurrect a Terminator? Causal viewers quit watching. I would have quit, except there was Summer Glau keeping me there until the later stories got better.

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity", where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

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Sunday, January 9, 2011 1:30 AM

INVADERCHAT

I see what you're saying with the popularity thing and I'm of the same opinion, that is why I too was surprised that the name didn't carry it too far. I think your earlier point was good as well regarding the fact that while a lot of people may have been drawn in, when they saw it wasn't just John and/or Sarah getting chased about by a Terminator they switched it off. Or maybe the third film caused people's hopes to be low for the series?

I never minded John or Sarah either, like you said they weren't really in 'war mode' at that point and I think they were really developing. As I said above though I didn't like John at first so that might have been something else that people gave up on quickly but he certainly grew on me and Sarah I thought was good from the start. It was like she'd developed into more of a mother when compared to the movies (not by much, but getting there) due to the peaceful period as well. I also thought the chemistry was good between all three of them, the tension in this kind of trust triangle, then Derek shows up.

I liked Dollhouse overall but it felt like a lot of episodes were more or less just filler in between the really good episodes, isolated episodes like the Epitaph's and the episode where Alpha first shows up were awesome and the filler should have had more relevance, I didn't like how they were like individual little stories, I like the kind of 'to be continued' way of storytelling. I would have voted for a TSCC season instead but I'm not ENTIRELY unhappy about Dollhouse either.

Hmm, maybe you're right two, I am willing to suspend my disbelief pretty damn far when it comes to these shows to the point where I often miss how ridiculous certain stuff is but I'm sure there would be a size-able chunk of viewers agreeing with you.

I personally didn't think there was anything wrong with the body being left in the junkyard so much as the head going through, isn't that supposed to be like...not possible? I think it would have worked far better if the Terminator just survived and went and waited for them like the Terminator in 'Self Made Man' does.

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Sunday, January 9, 2011 2:14 AM

TWO

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

Quote:
Originally posted by InvaderChat:
I personally didn't think there was anything wrong with the body being left in the junkyard ...

A SWAT team is called to a bank robbery where they find a bank vault door ripped off its hinges and a headless robot covered with flesh. Obviously the robot crimescene evidence should be carefully & methodically stored at the bottom of a scrapheap in an auto junkyard where it can come to life and steal a human's head to replace its own.

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity", where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

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Sunday, January 9, 2011 3:09 AM

INVADERCHAT

...Good call, point taken.

'Check it out! A fullsize metal death robot!'
'Junk!'

EDIT* I didn't disagree that it's ridiculous, just that for me personally it wasn't a big deal. I can see how it would have lost it a truck of viewers though.

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Saturday, March 12, 2011 7:17 AM

KRELLEK

Quote:
Originally posted by InvaderChat:
Welp, it's been off the air for a while but I figured I'd bring up a few points of discussion and hope there's some people to well...discuss them, I guess.

!!There's a few spoilers below!!

Point number one is 'how the hell did a show based on Terminator fail?' I don't quite get it, yes it is very different but I figured that would bring in a fair fanbase just for the robot killin'.
Admittedly though, I only started watching when season two came out despite being a fan of the movies.

Also, what would people hope for in a third season or this possible straight to DVD/TV movie that has been rumored? I think it had a fairly interesting setup with John in the 'future where there is no John Connor' with Weaver and co. I wonder what his interactions with Allison and Derek would have been like, plus his dad!

One to a few things which I have been asking myself about the show.
Around the end of season two episode five (the one with the military academy) Cameron is sent off to save John from the T-888, we see Derek and John take it out and Cameron is seen watching from the trees nearby. I thought this might be because she was intentionally leaving the T-888 to John to give him room to grow as a fighter for his role in the future but it does kinda go against her typical 'crush anything that threatens John' mentality. Some people think she was actually disobeying with an intent to get him killed or simply didn't get there in time, what do you (yes YOU) think?

Also, what's with Chopin? It doesn't seem to be widely discussed which leads me to believe people may not have noticed but we have Cameron dancing to Chopin's nocturne far earlier than when she mentions as Allison that her mother used to 'sit for hours and listen to Chopin' is that Allison's personality coming through earlier? Are there other signs of this? It also appears in the basement of the place where Derek and the other resistance fighters get held in the future. Who's down there? Allison or Cameron and what kinda horrible torture are they up to?

Hmm, I think that's about it for now folks ^_^

well I would hope for a as quick as possible Cameronization of a TOK715(a designation that is used atleast on the Terminator-/SarahConnorChronicles-/SummerGlauwiki for the endo that Cam had)skin/dna leant from Allison Young of this noJC-timeline, and perhaps a repaired chip with Cammy on from JH, and maybe a as fast as possible relocation of John, Cameron, JH, CW, Derek Reese, Kyle Reese, and Allison Young to the past a few days after John took of after JH/Cammy, and perhaps united timejump back to the 1984, having Kyle do his thing, and the others in the background helping him taking care of the terminator, and getting a dead body from somewhere looking like Kyle and make a quick exchange before Kyle dies, having Young sarah see the dead body looking like similar to Kyle, and then they all go back to 1999, and Allison could be reunited with her familly even if it was only to be a babysitter for little herself, and then perhaps slowly reveal to them what is going to happen. and save the Youngs too, and perhaps John an Cam could explore a little more this relationship as the good deal of the wikivisitors myself included call the Jameronship.

i know i am a sucker for a nice ending :-)

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