Firefly and the American Civil War by DrSyn

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Firefly and the American Civil War

POSTED BY: DRSYN
UPDATED: Friday, January 23, 2004 12:16
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VIEWED: 5490
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Thursday, January 22, 2004 7:41 PM

I'm just catching up, never saw an episode until I bought the dvd, and so I assume this has been hashed over before, but on the chance it hasn't.... I'm just to disc 2, but I'm getting that this is a post civil war reconstruction era story, where the hero is a disillusioned former confederate right down to the left over butter nut coat. i love that this show borrows those themes and sci-fi's them up for a new generation. The rievers are like a combination of the Civil War Missouri border bushwhackers and the Star Trek Voyagers nemesis, but I don't remember what they were called, but they tried to avoid them whenever they got close.
Are there any folks out there making this connection? Post civil War themes were big in television in the westerns of the 50's and 60's with Wagon train, Johnny Yuma, etc. this seems like a post-modern revival of those themes.
Just curious

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Thursday, January 22, 2004 7:45 PM

SUCCATASH

Here are some good links to this heated debate:

Firefly Must Die
http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=2605

Rat Salad's Firefly Redux
http://www.ratsalad.com/teevee/zaza_fireflyredux.htm

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Thursday, January 22, 2004 9:25 PM

SOUPCATCHER

Here is a featured article from a while back:

http://www.fireflyfans.net/feature.asp?f=39

I believe that it was the New York Times magazine article where Joss brought up the Civil War as a basis (I don't have a link handy). But I'm not sure how far you can carry the analagies. It's probably somewhere between simple inspiration and faithful updated reconstruction.

I shaved off my beard for you, devil woman!

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Friday, January 23, 2004 7:33 AM

CAPTAINTIGHTPANTS

I realise Joss mentioned a parallel with the American Civil War, but it seems more like the Revolution with the colonies losing. Just a thought.

You're gonna come with us...

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Friday, January 23, 2004 7:33 AM

CAPTAINTIGHTPANTS

I realise Joss mentioned a parallel with the American Civil War, but it seems more like the Revolution with the colonies losing. Just a thought.

You're gonna come with us...

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Friday, January 23, 2004 7:48 AM

HERO

Quote:
Originally posted by CaptainTightPants:
I realise Joss mentioned a parallel with the American Civil War, but it seems more like the Revolution with the colonies losing. Just a thought.

To the South thats just what the Civil War was, the 2nd Revolution, only this time the good guys lost.

The North sees it different.

I was born in the South and live in the North, so I pretend both sides won.

H

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Friday, January 23, 2004 9:09 AM

HOTPOINT

Quote:
Originally posted by CaptainTightPants:
I realise Joss mentioned a parallel with the American Civil War, but it seems more like the Revolution with the colonies losing. Just a thought.

Depends how you see the Alliance. Is it really a State in the strictest sense or a power-bloc of corporations that decided to take a more proactive role in running their terraforming investments

If the latter then the Independents were not really Colonies in the first place. A better parallel might be with the East India Company which evolved from a business enterprise to formal colony status later when the powers that be decided to shift from informal to a more formal Empire in India

Oh yes it's sort of O/T but technically the "Revolution" was as much a Civil War as anything else too. Even at the end of the War there were more "American" Volunteers in the British Army than served under Washington

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:

To the South thats just what the Civil War was, the 2nd Revolution, only this time the good guys lost

If the good guys lost then how is that any different than the 1st Revolution?

Sorry my British patriotism sometimes gets the better of me

...................................
Hurrah, hurrah, when things are at their worst
With cries of “Death or Glory” comes the mighty Twenty-First

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Friday, January 23, 2004 9:34 AM

HERO

If the good guys lost then how is that any different than the 1st Revolution?

Typical imperialist monarchist attitude. In 1776 the British were the bad guys. Ask anyone. But they started to learn the lessons of liberty, lessons we ourselves learned first at their hands. Now look at them. Shining exaamples of Democracy and Friendship.

Compare that to what happened to the French. I don't go in for the whole 'French are all cowards' argument. History belies that. However they have a leader who everybody knows, if we can't yet prove, has been in bed with Saddam Hussein for twenty years.

H

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Friday, January 23, 2004 10:13 AM

HOTPOINT

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
Typical imperialist monarchist attitude. In 1776 the British were the bad guys. Ask anyone. But they started to learn the lessons of liberty, lessons we ourselves learned first at their hands.

Well it was clearly meant as a joke but "Ask anyone"?

How about the thousands of Black Volunteers who signed up with the British Army or the Native American Tribes whos' lands were being protected by treaties enforced by the British which were opposed by the Rebels

And why do you think 50,000 Colonials fought for the British? Did they all think they were the bad guys?

It's really not as black and white as you think. Real life tends not to be

BTW we had elected government (with limited franchise however), trial by jury and freedom of the press long before 1776 so don't go thinking you taught us about Liberty it was the other way around

Oh yes. Slavery was declared illegal on the British mainland before the Declaration of Independence. And right across the rest of the Empire decades before the 13th Amendement. How long did it take you to catch up?

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:

Now look at them. Shining examples of Democracy and Friendship.

We're Athens to your Rome.

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:

I don't go in for the whole 'French are all cowards' argument. History belies that.

I'll agree with you there. From a military point of view the French Regulars and Navy really were the deciding factor in the British Defeat at Yorktown

I'm just funning with you now. No offence

...................................
Hurrah, hurrah, when things are at their worst
With cries of “Death or Glory” comes the mighty Twenty-First

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Friday, January 23, 2004 12:16 PM

HERO

Quote:
Originally posted by Hotpoint:
I'm just funning with you now. No offence :smile
Quote:

Thats what its all about. Now if a Frenchman piped in and started talkin some trash, I think I could take it a bit personal.

But in the words of my old Poli-Sci Professor from Ghana, "WHEN TWO ELEPHANTS FIGHT IT IS THE GRASS THAT SUFFERS" Not really relevant, but a good line is its own reward.

H

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