Why don't I like Lee Adama more? *BSG spoilers* by IndigoStarblaster

OTHER SCIENCE FICTION SERIES

Why don't I like Lee Adama more? *BSG spoilers*

POSTED BY: INDIGOSTARBLASTER
UPDATED: Thursday, August 31, 2006 08:15
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VIEWED: 3418
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Wednesday, August 23, 2006 4:04 AM

We just started watching BSG season 1 (last night we watched the the one where they attacked a Cylon tylium refinery), and I'm a little perturbed over why I don't like Apollo more.

I mean, he's cute, he's nice, he's conscientious, he's capable.... Sure, he's a little bit unsure of himself, overshadowed as he is by his legendary father and superpilot friend Starbuck, but normally a little bit of vulnerability makes me like a character more (but not in this case). His lines are pretty banal (I know, I'm comparing BSG dialogue to Buffy and Angel and Firefly, which is unfair. There is only one Joss), but no worse than anyone else's lines in this show.

Anyway, any insights would be appreciated.

Keep flying,

Indigo S.

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Wednesday, August 23, 2006 4:09 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.

Honestly Lee Adama has not really stood out in the series for me at all. To me he is always more of a background player, someone the other characters interact with from time to time. He seems so one dimensional at times that I just simply don't get into him.

I am not sure if it is the writers, the actor himself or a combination of the two, but I am right there with you. He just leaves me flat.

__________________________________________

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

Richmond, VA & surrounding area Firefly Fans:

http://tv.groups.yahoo.com/group/richmondbrowncoats/

http://www.richmondbrowncoats.org

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Wednesday, August 23, 2006 7:44 AM

CHRISISALL

He's as good as the Apollo of old, without the Hatch TM inflections.
I like him, but then I like white bread.

Chrisisall, plain and tall

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Wednesday, August 23, 2006 8:05 AM

DQBABY76

I think I like how the actor does a great American accent but every now and then you can hear some of his British in there. Plus he's kinda cute.

I like Guyas Baltar (not sure if i spelled that correctly). he's a slimey traitor but I love his reactions to things. Like the time he found out that the Cylons were going to destroy Caprica. His scream when he saw the big flash of light just cracks me up!

-------------------------------------------------
Shepard used to tell me...can't do something smart, do something right.
I'm so into Firefly, my butt glows in the dark.

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Wednesday, August 23, 2006 8:36 AM

INDIGOSTARBLASTER

I'm with you, there. Gaius Baltar is a great character -- we're just riveted by his incredible self-centredness and opportunism (not to mention his slavish devotion to making his penis happy). He injects a nice bit of comedy into what sometimes comes across as self-important drah-mah.

We're also liking Starbuck; and I think the inner emotional conflict of the human-looking Cylons is quite interesting (lots of fanwanking opportunities there -- "So is Sharon/Boomer really betraying the Cylon cause, or is it part of The Plan?"). The "grown-ups" -- Commander Adama, Colonel Tigh, the President -- have an appropriate gravitas, even if their dialogue is banal and lacking much subtext.

But Lee...

Maybe it's just that he seems really boring to me. I can't imagine him having a non-work-related conversation. I really hope the writers show some of his personal side at some point -- give him a hobby, a girlfriend (or boyfriend -- if there's any homophobia at all in the BSG universe, that could well explain a deliberate effacement of personality, in an effort to blend into the background, unnoticed), a personal quirk. Show him reading a book or listening to music or playing racquetball.

Does that happen at all in the next couple of seasons?

Indigo S.

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Wednesday, August 23, 2006 9:32 AM

DQBABY76

I agree about Lee. I think there are only a few times where I've seen him do leisure activities. You guys are just on season 1 right? Tons of stuff happens in the next seasons so I dont wanna ruin it by telling you things.

I used to not like Starbuck, especially in the pilot episode. It was her "gotta be tough, bitchy" attitude that just gets tiring. For some reason in every tv show that has a tough female character, they feel they have to portray her as some sort of heartless bitch. (except Firefly, I really loved Zoe cause she didnt need that type of attitude to let us know that she's strong.) But Starbuck has since toned it down and I like her tons better now.

My husband is completely in love with Sharon. I thought it was a nice twist when she turned out to be a Cylon. I also love Edward James Olmos as Adama. He's a rather fine actor.

Looking forward to the upcoming season. My husband isnt quite so sure about it though. I wont spoil anything for you. Happy BSG watching!

-------------------------------------------------
Shepard used to tell me...can't do something smart, do something right.
I'm so into Firefly, my butt glows in the dark.

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Wednesday, August 23, 2006 3:47 PM

FINN MAC CUMHAL

It’s his American accent. It makes him come across like a pansy. But all in all, I don’t think he’s a bad guy. I do think some of the drama between him and his father is a little melodramatic.

Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

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Wednesday, August 23, 2006 4:13 PM

WHIMSICALNBRAINPAN

I'm a big BSG fan and Appllo doesn't appeal much to me either. I think he is a bit of a stuffed shirt but maybe it's because he has all those "issues".

"Well, my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." http://whimsicalnbrainpan.blogspot.com/

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Thursday, August 24, 2006 10:51 AM

LIGHTMEDARK

I browse many BSG forums and always see Lee bashing. It drives me nuts, as he is probably one of my three favorite characters on the show...oh, and I absolutely can't stand Starbuck, while it seems most on the forums I peruse love her to death.

It's probably something to do with me being more in line with that character than others, I dunno...probably why the chief is one of those three favorite characters I mentioned earlier.

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Thursday, August 24, 2006 11:01 AM

WHIMSICALNBRAINPAN

Starbuck did start getting on my nerves a little near the end of the season because she got so damn whiny. I love the Chief though and the episode with him and the "priest" was priceless.

"Well, my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." http://whimsicalnbrainpan.blogspot.com/

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Thursday, August 24, 2006 11:06 AM

LIGHTMEDARK

Yeah, I loved the scenes with the priest and Chief Tyrol...good stuff.

Starbuck grated on my nerves almost from my first sight of her in the mini series...and it hasn't really changed since. Maybe sometime I'll explore why it is she bothers me so.

James Callis (Baltar) and Aaron Douglas (Chief) are going to be at D*C...can't wait ;D

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Friday, August 25, 2006 5:10 AM

INDIGOSTARBLASTER

Ok, we finished Season 1 last night, and I'm feeling a little more positive about Lee.

It actually helped to watch the special features and hear the actor speak and move in a manner which is completely different from his portrayal of Apollo. That helped confirm that it isn't a problem about inadequate acting -- Bamber can act.

And watching the last few episodes, especially _Colonial Day_, where Lee soaks up the sun and gets in a water fight with Starbuck and looks a little nonplussed by having Gaius cut in on his dance with Starbuck, helped round out Lee's non-military persona a bit. And the last episode made me think back more on Lee's actions in the series so far generally. And I was really quite touched by the last few silent seconds, when he's so focussed on his father (I cannot _believe_ how this season ended. Holy cow).

Anyway, it made me think Lee over, and I think I'm starting to figure him out. When he told his father that Zach was never cut out to be a pilot and did it only to please his father, he was really talking about himself, too. He isn't really a military guy. He's not really that good a fit; he's fundamentally uncomfortable with the role of the military. He's intelligent and conscientious and all those good things, so it's allowed him to do a good-enough job and to advance in his career, but he really doesn't have the instincts for it -- all his instincts point him towards a role more like his grandfather's (a civil rights lawyer).

He probably would have been much happier going to a civilian university, spending some time volunteering in the Third World (assuming the 12 colonies had that sort of thing), going to law school and becoming a civil rights lawyer himself. (I also think he would have married young and then been divorced, shaken and uncomprehending of what had happened, a few years later. But that's another story.)

Oh, well. Bygones.

It's funny. Figuring him out a bit makes me like him a lot more. It seems to me I'm discomfitted by the person he's made himself to be, because he's basically made himself incomplete -- he's neglected whole parts of himself, in an effort to please his father. And I guess I like him more now, because I can see him struggling towards discovering those other parts (although the business of what's going to happen now with his father -- holy cow -- might set that process back a bit).

Anyway, it'll be interesting to see what happens in Season 2.

Indigo S.

P.S. I've seen references somewhere to "Season 1.5". Is that because Season 1 is the mini-series, and Season 1.5 is the rest of the first season?

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Friday, August 25, 2006 10:18 AM

LIGHTMEDARK

Quote:
Originally posted by IndigoStarblaster:
When he told his father that Zach was never cut out to be a pilot and did it only to please his father, he was really talking about himself, too. He isn't really a military guy. He's not really that good a fit; he's fundamentally uncomfortable with the role of the military.

Good observation...you're completely right (imo).

I've never heard of 1.5, only 2.5 as they divided the 2nd season into two DVD boxsets.

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Monday, August 28, 2006 5:28 AM

INDIGOSTARBLASTER

"I've never heard of 1.5, only 2.5 as they divided the 2nd season into two DVD boxsets."

Oh. Why the heck did they do that?

Indigo S.

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Wednesday, August 30, 2006 4:24 PM

DREAMSOFTHESPIDER

For me, Lee Adama seems like that type of character that is very isolated from everyone. He starts off with no friends, a bit of an ass, at odds with Dad, tempestuous friendship with Kara peppered with wounds, the worlds destroyed, humanity decimated, friends, mother, dead (granted, that's true for all the characters). And now he has a *very* important job that he never asked for, and possibly didn't want. I think it's very deliberate that he comes off a bit flat to the casual eye, because the character is alone.

What I love about him is that the more you look at his actions and listen to his words (even his badly delivered speeches reveal an awkwardness in the face of this new leadership that was thrust upon him), the more I understand him and am awed by his ideals and strength of character. He's pretty terrible with people and relationships, and in a way, he reminds me of our beloved Simon Tam. And I know that a LOT of people HATED Simon, found him cold, even called him *cringes* reptilian.

I think he's a character that takes time to warm up to, because the character takes some time before he warms up (ever so slightly) to the crew of Galactica.

I think also, since the writers don't involve Lee in the mythology and Cylon plots as much as the other characters, that they don't know what to do with him.

Give him time. You may see him more as I do, or just continue with "meh". But I find him more wonderful everytime I watch and understand more of what's actually going on in the scene.

~Tzegha

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Wednesday, August 30, 2006 4:34 PM

DREAMSOFTHESPIDER

Oh good, you finished season 1 and you're liking him more!

You're figuring him out but good! Lee most likely never wanted to be in the military, but as pop says, "you're not a man till you wear the wings of a Viper". The pressure, jeez. And then the pressure of making sure he makes it on his own steam, and not the fact that he's Adama's son, and most likely nobody believing that he got where he is on his own merits. And being totally unhappy. He's good at his job, he's great at it, but he's not happy with it.

I love the strength of character, ideals, and brass balls he shows in Bastille, and again the strength and independence of his choice during the showdown with Roslin and Tigh, the ideals behind it.

~Tzegha

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Thursday, August 31, 2006 8:03 AM

INDIGOSTARBLASTER

That's a great point you made, about him being somewhat similar to Simon. Simon gets humanized because we get to see him being warm and caring and playful with his sister. We don't get to see that in Lee, on account of his isolation. If River didn't exist -- if, say, she had died two years before the pilot episode -- Simon would come across pretty flat, too.

(And of course Simon also gets the benefit of the wonderful, witty dialogue of all the characters in Firefly; Lee has to make do with the lines that are written for him. )

I'm really hoping Lee gets to come into his own more in the coming seasons (I believe the second season should be available in my local video store in a few months. At least, I hope so). In particular, I hope he either truly reconciles himself to being in the military or he gets out, because I think this is the kind of internal conflict that'll eat you alive.

Indigo S.

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Thursday, August 31, 2006 8:15 AM

DREAMSOFTHESPIDER

I still like Simon better :D

But like Simon, where many only (still!) see the shiny vests and corebred attitude and mistake it for pansyness instead of the window-dressing it is, Lee still strikes people as a prick.

Lee's gots some ups and downs in the second season, and some spectacularly bad writing to contend with in 2.5

Also, I don't know how desperate you are to watch it, but it's also available on iTunes (don't know if you're a fan of watching on the computer--I'm not--or the capability to burn it to a DVD)

Quote:
I hope he either truly reconciles himself to being in the military or he gets out, because I think this is the kind of internal conflict that'll eat you alive.

I think you *get* Lee very well!

~Tzegha

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