Did Kirk's rather *enthusiastic* execution of Nero bug you? by chrisisall

"Revenge is a dish best served cold."
Without hatred or triumph. You put down a rabid animal in the same way.
Killing is not fun. It's not cathartic.
It's grim.

That's my take, anyway.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Monday, December 21, 2009 1:53 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Bah, we're all human, all flawed, Kirk as much as any of us...

He was serious in his offer of rescue, but it was only out of a sense of obligation to be the better person, and he was quite, quite satisfied in seeing Nero hoisted on his own petard, you bet.

He scored better than I woulda, on a moral scale, cause I would NOT have offered a rescue, instead reminding him of the human proverb that a person seeking revenge should dig two graves first.

-F

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Monday, December 21, 2009 2:03 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up

You know, I'm reminded of this other captain who pushed a prisoner into an engine, repeatedly stabbed a man who had yielded to him, and watched approvingly as a bound prisoner he had captured was shot and killed.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Monday, December 21, 2009 3:11 PM

CALHOUN

Quote:
chrisisall wrote:
Monday, December 21, 2009 09:03
"Revenge is a dish best served cold."
Without hatred or triumph. You put down a rabid animal in the same way.
Killing is not fun. It's not cathartic.
It's grim.

That's my take, anyway.

So you are not able to envisage any situation where your take might not be the case?

If you family had been brutally raped, murdered and dismembered by a perverted psychopath whilst he had forced you to watch, might you not take PLEASURE from killing this monster?

It aint all black and white.

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Monday, December 21, 2009 5:13 PM

JADEHAND

Quote:
Originally posted by Calhoun:
Quote:
chrisisall wrote:
Monday, December 21, 2009 09:03
"Revenge is a dish best served cold."
Without hatred or triumph. You put down a rabid animal in the same way.
Killing is not fun. It's not cathartic.
It's grim.

That's my take, anyway.

So you are not able to envisage any situation where your take my not be the case?

If you family had been brutally raped, murdered and dismembered by a perverted psychopath whilst he had forced you to watch, might you not take PLEASURE from killing this monster?

It aint all black and white.

We all come into this world the same way, naked, screaming, and covered in someone else's blood. That doesn't have to change if you have the right God.
Also, F**K the self righteous idiots who think they are better than their fellow man/woman who have known pain. I will not blame those who hurt more than I for taking pleasure in vengeance. No, it's not all B&W, but pleasurable? yes. it is.
Dearest morons: If you've not known pain, be thankful more than "superior". Pain will find you. You will miss your ignorance.

"I've looked into a million laughing unhappinesses. In every bar and on the TV. But I know the real thing. I can remember. I can almost tell you how it is." - Trap the Spark - Happiness is the Road - Marillion
"Our forefathers died for the pursuit of happiness, not the sit around and wait for happiness." -Barney -HIMYM

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Monday, December 21, 2009 6:18 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:

Bah, we're all human, all flawed, Kirk as much as any of us...

Frem, it was the film-making that was iffy. The singularity was gonna end Nero anyway. Kirk firing on the Narada was just Hollywood endgame gloop.
I just resent overkillisall.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Monday, December 21, 2009 6:19 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:
You know, I'm reminded of this other captain who pushed a prisoner into an engine

"oh, darn."

The laughing Chrisisall

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Monday, December 21, 2009 6:22 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Calhoun:

So you are not able to envisage any situation where your take might not be the case?

If you family had been brutally raped, murdered and dismembered by a perverted psychopath whilst he had forced you to watch, might you not take PLEASURE from killing this monster?

No. Sorry.
I take pleasure in family picknicks, making love to my Wife, and so on.
Taking out the garbage is a necessary chore, that's all.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Monday, December 21, 2009 7:55 PM

FREMDFIRMA

I dunno, Chris - I mean, overkill can be pretty messy, both morally and physically (especially on nice boots!) but if there's one thing too many protaganists fall victim to in movies, it's Not Making Sure - I didn't see it as having any explicit nasty motive, as much as Kirk making absolutely SURE that guy was gone.

Given what happened in the other continuity with Khan, I'd hafta say I see his reasoning there.

-F

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Tuesday, December 22, 2009 2:36 AM

RIVERLOVE

Yes it bugged me a lot. I was shocked and angered by the callous and salacious manner in which Kirk acted. Where was the due process for Nero? Was he given his Miranda Rights? Did he have an attorney present? How can an order for execution be given before a trial and conviction? Where was the FCLU? Just because the guy "allegedly" murdered billions of people doesn't mean he's not entitled to a spirited defense.

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Tuesday, December 22, 2009 9:06 AM

CITIZEN

Heh.

--------------------------------------------------

If you play a Microsoft CD backwards you can hear demonic voices. The scary part is that if you play it forwards it installs Windows.

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Tuesday, December 22, 2009 9:24 AM

OPPYH

Not really understanding the point of this thread.

Kirk kill a bad guy....big deal. Enjoying killing a bad buy....big deal.
Your turning a fun breezy Trek movie into a morality play. Just watch, and enjoy. The parts you don't like, just shrug them off.

You may have something with the texting generation similarity though. If it feels good do it. Where generation Xr's had a small bit of moral compass, the next generation will be beyond all that.
Anything will be fair game. We should just thank our lucky stars we won't live to see it.

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Tuesday, December 22, 2009 2:39 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
I didn't see it as having any explicit nasty motive, as much as Kirk making absolutely SURE that guy was gone.

I can hover with that, Frem.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Monday, January 4, 2010 8:44 AM

RIPWASH

Happy New Year to all!

Been spending WAY too much time on FaceBook, hence my absence.

Anyway . . .

What everyone fails to take into account here is that these characters are NOT the same ones we were used to. Same names, same surroundings, but different. Nero's initial attack changed EVERYTHING. The most important thing, being that Kirk's father was killed by a homicidal maniac leaving Jim to be raised by another man who didn't have the same ideals as his father did. Thus changing the way Kirk was raised entirely. He didn't have any lofty goals, he didn't aspire to do much more than to be a belligerent ass who picked fights in bars. His father wasn't there to point him on the path of idealistic morality. It just didn't happen. So the Kirk we see in this movie is not really the same one we were used to.

Now let's take a look at Spock. His whole temperament was changed with the death of HIS mother and the admission of his father that the reason for the marriage was not logic, but love. In my estimation, this prompted Spock to embrace his human emotions more freely than Spock Prime did. Thus, HIS character was changed fundamentally by the same homicidal maniac.

I agree with Frem, that with all the mess Nero caused coming through ONE black hole, they needed to make absolutely certain that he wasn't able to survive the black hole consuming his ship, no matter how slim the odds of that may have been. He didn't want to be rescued? Fine. They gave him one last chance and he refused outright. So . . . bye-bye.

*********************************************

"It's okay! I'm a leaf on the wind!!!"
"What does that mean?!?!?!"

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Monday, January 4, 2010 9:48 AM

GINOBIFFARONI

Did anyone read the pre movie comics which outlined Neros motives ?

Just wondering

Either your with the terrorists, or ... your with the terrorists

Lets party like its 1939

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Monday, January 4, 2010 11:43 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
Did anyone read the pre movie comics which outlined Neros motives ?

Just wondering

I did. It was good, but still...

The laughing Chrisisall

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Monday, January 4, 2010 11:53 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:
Not the first time.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

That dude had it coming too.

The T.Rex they call JANE!

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Monday, January 4, 2010 1:07 PM

Given that the guy had not only killed Kirk's dad but had murdered an entire planet.... AND Kirk still offered to help him first....?

Nope, not in the least.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Monday, January 4, 2010 1:11 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DMI:

These are questions that might bother me if they pertained to real Star Trek but since that flashy, shaky mess wasn't Trek and that angry, teenaged, afternoon special actor wasn't Kirk, I'm not worried about it at all.

Wow, someone's bitter, and a bit obsessive.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Sunday, January 10, 2010 12:32 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by deadlockvictim:

i have to disagree Mike - anyone who gets pleasure from killing another human is a pretty sick puppy in my book...

I don't get it. You are asking this on a Firefly forum, after everybody has already seen The Train Job, and thrilled that BDH Mal dispatched Crow with authority, albeit regret.
I feel like I missed the first couple sections of your discussion, before your OP.

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Sunday, January 10, 2010 1:15 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:

Bah, we're all human, all flawed, Kirk as much as any of us...

Frem, it was the film-making that was iffy. The singularity was gonna end Nero anyway. Kirk firing on the Narada was just Hollywood endgame gloop.
I just resent overkillisall.

The laughing Chrisisall

Please explain how the singularity will with utmost certainty end Nero when it harmed not a hair of his the first time?

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Sunday, January 10, 2010 5:31 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:

Please explain how the singularity will with utmost certainty end Nero when it harmed not a hair of his the first time?

The first time had a distinguishable event horizon & semi-directional gravimetric compression consistent with temporal anomalies; the one destroying his ship was like the one that destroyed Vulcan- simply an omni-directional negative field (black hole).

The laughing Chrisisall

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Sunday, January 10, 2010 2:59 PM

CLJOHNSTON108

Ummmm, I'm confused now.
Didn't that scene go some'n like...

Spock: [after Kirk offers surrender terms to Nero] Captain, what are you doing?
Kirk: Showing them compassion. It may be the only way to earn peace with Romulus. It's logic, Spock, I thought you'd like that.
Spock: No, not really. Not this time.

What's this "enthusiastic execution" by Kirk that y'all are talking about?

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Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:07 PM

The "You got it! Phasers & photon torpedoes fire."

Although, the posts herein have me leaning towards an "I can deal" attitude concerning it.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Sunday, January 10, 2010 7:27 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Nope.

The T.Rex they call JANE!

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Sunday, January 10, 2010 9:21 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:

Please explain how the singularity will with utmost certainty end Nero when it harmed not a hair of his the first time?
The first time had a distinguishable event horizon & semi-directional gravimetric compression consistent with temporal anomalies; the one destroying his ship was like the one that destroyed Vulcan- simply an omni-directional negative field (black hole).

The laughing Chrisisall

Sounds like gibberishisall.
The first one consumes a supernova sun plus Romulus, and leaves Nero's boat unharmed. I did not see any supernova suns reappearing where Nero or Spock popped out, nor for that matter Romulus. Why would not any of the structures of Romulus survive, or any of the spacecraft parked on Romulus, if the singularity were so different, as you claim?

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Monday, January 11, 2010 3:03 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:
Sounds like gibberishisall.

I stand busted.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Monday, January 11, 2010 9:45 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:
Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:

Please explain how the singularity will with utmost certainty end Nero when it harmed not a hair of his the first time?
The first time had a distinguishable event horizon & semi-directional gravimetric compression consistent with temporal anomalies; the one destroying his ship was like the one that destroyed Vulcan- simply an omni-directional negative field (black hole).

The laughing Chrisisall

Sounds like gibberishisall.
The first one consumes a supernova sun plus Romulus, and leaves Nero's boat unharmed. I did not see any supernova suns reappearing where Nero or Spock popped out, nor for that matter Romulus. Why would not any of the structures of Romulus survive, or any of the spacecraft parked on Romulus, if the singularity were so different, as you claim?

The nova had already destroyed Romulus, the singularity just stopped the supernova.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Wednesday, January 13, 2010 6:57 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
Quote:
Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:
Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:

Please explain how the singularity will with utmost certainty end Nero when it harmed not a hair of his the first time?
The first time had a distinguishable event horizon & semi-directional gravimetric compression consistent with temporal anomalies; the one destroying his ship was like the one that destroyed Vulcan- simply an omni-directional negative field (black hole).

The laughing Chrisisall

Sounds like gibberishisall.
The first one consumes a supernova sun plus Romulus, and leaves Nero's boat unharmed. I did not see any supernova suns reappearing where Nero or Spock popped out, nor for that matter Romulus. Why would not any of the structures of Romulus survive, or any of the spacecraft parked on Romulus, if the singularity were so different, as you claim?

The nova had already destroyed Romulus, the singularity just stopped the supernova.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

So then you're saying the nova also reappeared in our time to consume more worlds, right? When did this happen, I don't recall any mention of this in the film.

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Wednesday, January 13, 2010 7:03 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:

So then you're saying the nova also reappeared in our time to consume more worlds, right? When did this happen, I don't recall any mention of this in the film.

That's what you get for missing staff meetings, doctor.

Most black holes just crunch stuff.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Friday, January 15, 2010 10:29 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:

So then you're saying the nova also reappeared in our time to consume more worlds, right? When did this happen, I don't recall any mention of this in the film.

Most black holes just crunch stuff.

The laughing Chrisisall

Right, and that is where you're contention that it consumed the mere supernova but dislodged nary a moletcule on Nero's sooper dooper craft flounders. Maybe you missed the staff meeting.

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Saturday, January 16, 2010 6:22 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:
that is where you're contention that it consumed the mere supernova but dislodged nary a molecule on Nero's sooper dooper craft flounders.

You want the truth? I'm desperately trying to fanwank a screenplay written by two guys that clearly never took an astronomy class.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Saturday, January 16, 2010 7:01 AM