Even numbered Trek films.....can be pretty bad. by OPPYH

OTHER SCIENCE FICTION SERIES

Even numbered Trek films.....can be pretty bad.

POSTED BY: OPPYH
UPDATED: Sunday, January 10, 2010 21:13
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Friday, January 8, 2010 9:01 AM

The original crew Trek films 2, and 4(Wrath of Kahn, Voyage Home) are downright awesome.

However Star Trek 6 The Undiscovered Country is awful.
I watched it years ago, and some how I thought it was pretty decent. I watched it again last night....yuck.
It turned out to be just a waste of time. Even being the original crew, I still didn't enjoy it.

Star trek 5 is always considered the "dog" of the original crew films. I'm watched it the other night(I'm watching the films sequentially) and I enjoyed it much, much more than 6.
It's actually a pretty good film, if you can get over the fact that Spock has a crazy brother.

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Friday, January 8, 2010 9:32 AM

CHRISISALL

Count me as one who likes 5, but also likes 6.
But 1 - 4 are my favourites.
And 6 is better, MUCH better IMO in the theatrical cut, without Scotty's "Klingon bitch" line, & the silly Scooby-like unmasking at the end. I can see how the extended cut might make you like it a lot less than it arguably deserves. But in the end, it is just a simplistic parallel to the fall of the Soviet Union- I like more SF in my Trek, and for all its faults, I think 5 was quite successful on that level.

Just don't get me started on what a waste of celluloid Generations was; that & Nemesis made me realize how good 5 was.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Friday, January 8, 2010 11:07 AM

JONGSSTRAW

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Count me as one who likes 5, but also likes 6.
But 1 - 4 are my favourites.
And 6 is better, MUCH better IMO in the theatrical cut, without Scotty's "Klingon bitch" line, & the silly Scooby-like unmasking at the end. I can see how the extended cut might make you like it a lot less than it arguably deserves. But in the end, it is just a simplistic parallel to the fall of the Soviet Union- I like more SF in my Trek, and for all its faults, I think 5 was quite successful on that level.

Just don't get me started on what a waste of celluloid Generations was; that & Nemesis made me realize how good 5 was.

I too liked ST-V to a large degree. I remember the special feeling of excitement I got when they searched for and found the planet Shakari. It reminded me of searching for and finding Eden in the Neutral Zone in the series episode The Way To Eden. But the "God-like" entity thing in ST-V just ruined it for me. The "God" looked like a prequel to bad Santa or something.

Nemesis was typical of the Next Generation lot of movies.....bland, pc, predictable, and nauseatingly Data-intensive.

But for all their ups and downs, I can say that I like ALL the Trek movies even after 30 years. They hold up very well.

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Friday, January 8, 2010 11:26 AM

STORYMARK

I like 6. Hate 5. Only Trek I dislike as much as 5 is Nemesis.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Friday, January 8, 2010 11:50 AM

CHRISISALL

I rate 1 & 2 - 4 as GREAT!
6 is really, really good.
5 is fun nonsense.

The movies after that are not true life forms.

But I do kinda like Insurrection.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Friday, January 8, 2010 12:31 PM

LWAVES

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
I rate 1 & 2 - 4 as GREAT!
6 is really, really good.
5 is fun nonsense.

The movies after that are not true life forms.

But I do kinda like Insurrection.

The laughing Chrisisall

With my current thinking that would probably be exactly my thoughts as well, except for Insurrection. I don't hate it like some do but I can't consider it a good film either. First Contact has to get some points from me because of the Borg and the very short but excellent EMH scene. But I could never really get into any of the TNG stuff, the main reason being that I could never put with Riker and Troi and all the terrible bad acting that came with them.

ST6 is definitely a great movie. I love the humour in it and the whodunnit aspect, although the actual who is fairly obvious. ST5 is good but has it's problems. ST4 is very funny and not to be taken too seriously. ST3 is a really great movie that has a couple of problems but solves one of them with a knife. And ST1+2 just can't be touched. ST1 brings you the classic purer scifi style story of a mysterious entity and ST2 brings you the classic enemy who almost outwits Kirk scenario, with a healthy dose of action thrown in.

To misquote Spock - 'I have been and always shall be a TOS fan.'

"I don't believe in suicide, but if you'd like to try it it might cheer me up to watch."

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Friday, January 8, 2010 12:40 PM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by lwaves:
ST3 is a really great movie that has a couple of problems but solves one of them with a knife.

LOL, that's mean...
I love 2, 3 & 4 equally, but for very different reasons... thing is, it's one trilogy to me; each one needs the other for the complete story.
And STTMP is just a great SF film, regardless of Trek history. And the endless & excellent ship pron in that one...!!!*salivates*

The laughing Chrisisall

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Friday, January 8, 2010 12:45 PM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by lwaves:

ST6 is definitely a great movie.

Come to think of it... "Must have been your lifelong ambition."
Yeah, that is great.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Friday, January 8, 2010 1:04 PM

STORYMARK

Khan, First Contact and the New One are my favorites of the franchise. I do enjoy Insurrection as an extended episode, but it's hard to consider it more than that.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Friday, January 8, 2010 4:30 PM

OPPYH

I think 5 is great fun. Shatner had the main characters(Bones, Spock, Kirk) down to a science. He wrote them better than most Trek writers could do on the original series.

I feel 6 betrays most of the character personas. Especially Kirk on his blood feud with the Klingons. That was hard for me to swallow, especially since he visited his own son how many times in the kids lifetime? Oh yeah, that's right...ZERO!
The writers could have done a hell of a lot better for the original crews send off.

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Friday, January 8, 2010 5:03 PM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by OPPYH:

I feel 6 betrays most of the character personas. Especially Kirk on his blood feud with the Klingons. That was hard for me to swallow, especially since he visited his own son how many times in the kids lifetime? Oh yeah, that's right...ZERO!
The writers could have done a hell of a lot better for the original crews send off.

Personally, I HATED the whole "David" thing, but since it was what we got, I can (have to) deal. I can believe that Kirk said "Let them!" but as Shatner said, Meyer cut out the remorseful look about saying that that Shatner included (the way we blurt out emotional stuff only to take it back later upon reflection). Bad on Meyer.
I still love it anyways.
And so do you.

The LDS Chrisisall

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Friday, January 8, 2010 5:21 PM

OPPYH

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:

I still love it anyways.
And so do you.

You win. I liked it better than TNG movies. But I'm still finding it odd that 6 is considered "better" than 5.

I thought 5 was much more enjoyable. The overall story was bit heavy handed, but like I said Shat did an awesome job with the characters. Their dialog was perfect. Didn't Shatner write some Star Trek novels also? Maybe I should give them a read.

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Friday, January 8, 2010 6:33 PM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by OPPYH:

You win.

"I always win.
Is there no one on this planet to even CHALLENGE ME??"

Quote:
But I'm still finding it odd that 6 is considered "better" than 5.

For MY part, I believe it is, as an overall film (Theatrical version, anyway), if only because of the lame FX in 5 (not at all the Shat's fault). The photography was the best in any Trek flick, the music by Goldsmith was incredible, & the concept was cool.

Quote:
Didn't Shatner write some Star Trek novels also? Maybe I should give them a read.

Shatner & "friend" (co-writer), I haven't read them, but I think I might.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Friday, January 8, 2010 9:10 PM

GWEK

For years, I tried to resist the fairly common opinion that WRATH OF KHAN is the best Trek movie. But after watching the Abrams re-boot this summer, I decided to re-watch all the movies.

Turns out, I think WoK IS the best of the Trek movies. In fact, I might go so far as to say it's the only one that's actually GOOD.

ST:tMP stood the test of time much better than I remembered. Although it often gets a bad rap, I think that's because it's more in the 2001 mold of sci fi than the Star Wars mold (in terms of high concept and pacing). Not a bad movie, but I don't know that I'd call it good.

SEARCH FOR SPOCK isn't bad, but definitely suffers in comparison to WoK. As a standalone, it might not have been bad, but since it's so closely tied o WoK, it's hard not to see where the writers dropped the ball on follow-up.

THE VOYAGE HOME was probably the biggest disappointment, since when I was younger, it was one of my favorites. The plot itself it still okay, but the "humor" that creeps in (and also appears in the next few movies) is so ridiculously stupid here that I just can't get past it. Scotty and Checkov probably fare the worst. I mean, Checkov screaming about "nuclear wessels" in the middle of the street. REALLY? This is an experienced officer with a military career spanning DECADES, and he's depicted as moronic as a Chris Kattan character.

THE FINAL FRONTIER was just as bad as I remembered... Kirk vs God and Kirk wins! Seriously? Do I need to say anything more?!? (But I will: as a minor sidenote, this movie has always been a huge disappointment because the book, which I read before seeing the flick, was probably one of the best sci fi books I've ever read).

THE UNDISCOVERED COUNTRY is, to me, on par with SEARCH FOR SPOCK. Not terrible, although it suffers when compared with WRATH OF KNAN. I can't help but feel like with the final big battle they were trying to re-capture the one from WoK. I think UC is also one of the more "dated" movies, in that I think it tried to be pretty cutting edge at the time, but with so many other sci fi movies since, it has trouble standing the test of time.

As for the rest... although they have their bright moments, I find most of the TNG movies awkward and painful overall. GENERATIONS bears special mention if only because of the incredibly lame and pointless death scene for Kirk. I'm not exactly the biggest Trek fan (I know, you're probably surprised), but Captain Kirk is such an iconic figure, he deserved a better end than "Oh, my!" His death scene makes Pasty Anakin's awesome by comparison, and the idea of putting the scene alongside the final moments of Wash or Book is laughable.

www.stillflying.net: "Here's how it might have been..."

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Friday, January 8, 2010 9:43 PM

OPPYH

Quote:
Originally posted by GWEK:
I'm not exactly the biggest Trek fan (I know, you're probably surprised), but Captain Kirk is such an iconic figure, he deserved a better end than "Oh, my!" His death scene makes Pasty Anakin's awesome by comparison, and the idea of putting the scene alongside the final moments of Wash or Book is laughable.

Although Kirk dying is a downer, I thought it was a touching scene. Kirk goes out being the hero we always knew he was. The "Oh My" line I thought was kind of chilling. Left me wondering about the great unknown. Watching Anakin get his limbs chopped off almost made episode 3 worth while. That scene had me wondering how such a terrible actor got the part of Anakin in the first place. Sorry, just my opinion spilling out all over the place.

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Friday, January 8, 2010 9:55 PM

OPPYH

Quote:
Originally posted by GWEK:

THE VOYAGE HOME was probably the biggest disappointment, since when I was younger, it was one of my favorites. The plot itself it still okay, but the "humor" that creeps in (and also appears in the next few movies) is so ridiculously stupid here that I just can't get past it. Scotty and Checkov probably fare the worst. I mean, Checkov screaming about "nuclear wessels" in the middle of the street. REALLY? This is an experienced officer with a military career spanning DECADES, and he's depicted as moronic as a Chris Kattan character.

Oh come on, it had dumb humor in spots but that was kind of the vibe of the film. Just light, and fun. I love this film. Plus, the message of it was fantastic. Greenpeace must have been overjoyed with it.

Scotty -"Helooo computer"

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Saturday, January 9, 2010 6:27 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by GWEK:

THE VOYAGE HOME was probably the biggest disappointment, since when I was younger, it was one of my favorites. The plot itself it still okay, but the "humor" that creeps in (and also appears in the next few movies) is so ridiculously stupid here that I just can't get past it. Scotty and Checkov probably fare the worst. I mean, Checkov screaming about "nuclear wessels" in the middle of the street. REALLY? This is an experienced officer with a military career spanning DECADES, and he's depicted as moronic as a Chris Kattan character.

The silliness is book-ended with a perfect tie-up for the trilogy. Don't take all the funny in between so seriously. There was a time it offended me to no end, but hey, I love these peeps. I've evolved beyond my need for perfection, and just LMAO during it.
And so do you.
Yes.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Saturday, January 9, 2010 9:53 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Actually the moment in ST6 which sent me to the floor wasn't "lifelong ambition" - although that was damned funny.

It was earlier, when Bones rolls up on Kirk schmoozing YET ANOTHER chick, and just stops, stunned, and gives him both barrels of something he no doubt wanted to say for YEARS...
"What.. IS it with you?!"

Seriously, the WAY Kelly delivers that line utterly slays me, the pause, the facial expression, and just... blam.

And Kirk oh-soooo-had it coming.

My favorite is still Wrath of Khan, but I have a sneaking fondness for Nemesis, bad that it is, soley because I used to run a tabletop RPG that was Sci-Fi/Supers in nature, who actually *tried* most of the wackier stunts in Nemesis at one time or another.

-F

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Saturday, January 9, 2010 11:51 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Bones rolls up on Kirk schmoozing YET ANOTHER chick, and just stops, stunned, and gives him both barrels of something he no doubt wanted to say for YEARS...
"What.. IS it with you?!"

That kind of stuff made the movie for me.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Saturday, January 9, 2010 2:20 PM

TRAVELER

When I go to my video shelf and reach for a Star Trek movie I always end up pulling out number two.
"Wrath of Khan" is the best.

http://www.imdb.com/mymovies/list?l=28764731
Traveler

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Saturday, January 9, 2010 2:27 PM

MOOSE

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
I love 2, 3 & 4 equally, but for very different reasons... thing is, it's one trilogy to me; each one needs the other for the complete story.

That's pretty much the way I feel about them also.

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Didn't Shatner write some Star Trek novels also? Maybe I should give them a read.
Shatner & "friend" (co-writer), I haven't read them, but I think I might.

"Shatner's" novels actually aren't that bad. The storyline has Kirk "surviving" Generationsand becoming part of the TNG era.

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Saturday, January 9, 2010 2:27 PM

MOOSE

oops

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Saturday, January 9, 2010 3:03 PM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by Moose:
The storyline has Kirk "surviving" Generationsand becoming part of the TNG era.

As it should be!

The laughing Chrisisall

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Saturday, January 9, 2010 3:16 PM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by traveler:
When I go to my video shelf and reach for a Star Trek movie I always end up pulling out number two.
"Wrath of Khan" is the best.

Technically, I agree. Time for a food analogy:

STTMP is linguini in pesto sauce with olive oil chiabatta.

ST2 is a most excellent pizza with extra cheese.

ST3 is fish & chips.

ST4 is popcorn with real butter.

ST5 is Captain Crunch w/milk (soy milk if you're like me).

ST6 is a Subway sandwich & large soda.

Yeah, I always go for the pizza first.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Sunday, January 10, 2010 8:35 PM

OPPYH

Quote:
Originally posted by traveler:
When I go to my video shelf and reach for a Star Trek movie I always end up pulling out number two.
"Wrath of Khan" is the best.

I feel the same way.

It is the best.

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Sunday, January 10, 2010 8:41 PM

OPPYH

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:

STTMP is linguini in pesto sauce with olive oil chiabatta.

I like the motion picture, but to me its more like an Avocado salad. It tastes pretty good, but there is just something a little "off" about the whole thing.

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Sunday, January 10, 2010 9:13 PM

TRAVELER

Someday I am going to watch Wrath of Khan with a pad of paper and keep track of all the quotes they throw out in that film. I think it starts with "The best of times" and continues till the very end of the film. Khan gets in the most.

http://www.imdb.com/mymovies/list?l=28764731
Traveler

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