Minimalism of Star Trek... by chrisisall

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Minimalism of Star Trek...

POSTED BY: CHRISISALL
UPDATED: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 11:58
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Wednesday, June 16, 2010 1:15 PM

A must read for ST fans interested in the visual experience of TOS.

http://www.brightlightsfilm.com/68/68startrek.php

Now I also realize why TOS Enterprise is my favourite, it's not that it was the first, it's that it was part of the Minimalist style of the show! Clean lines, no ultra/over-textured hulls...
Wow, we REALLY lost something in the subsequent movies & series when Minimalist gave way to the busy-techie visual nonsense IMO.
Thank GOD(DESS) for Mike Okuda keeping with that Minimalist feel in the new FX for TOS' "special editions"!!
And too bad JJ Abrams did not set out to recapture that feel for his new movie (apart from costumes, which I felt were REALLY REALLY nice in that way!).

60's Trek was ONE OF A KIND.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Wednesday, June 16, 2010 2:43 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello Chris,

My favorite Trek ships were the movie versions (1-6) with their textured, detailed hulls. I also liked the functional appearance of several of the bridges.

The TNG bridges sometimes pleased me and sometimes displeased me. Carpeting made sense from a 'what if I fall down' perspective, but it made the bridge look like a Cruiseliner rather than a government vessel. Forcing Worf to stand all day while others got to sit down also didn't make sense. I liked the re-configurable touch-screens, but was always dismayed on the infrequent closeups when the arrangement of 'buttons' made no sense. This was no worse than the TOS bridge consoles, of course, where the folks operating them seemed to have an eidetic memory for what all those buttons did.

The new movie bridge was awful. Too bright. Too many lights (I felt hot looking at the screen) and too glassy. A little more contrast would be nice. I did like the window viewscreen, though. I also liked the industrial look of the engine room, though I didn't like the lack of identifiable parts.

I think my tastes lie somewhere past minimalism and more towards functionalism. ;-)

--Anthony

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Wednesday, June 16, 2010 3:20 PM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by ANTHONYT:
Hello Chris,

My favorite Trek ships were the movie versions (1-6) with their textured, detailed hulls.
I think my tastes lie somewhere past minimalism and more towards functionalism. ;-)

Tony, have you SEEN the original Trek eps with the new FX??? Enterprise is GORGEOUS! No need at all for redesign!

The laughing Chrisisall

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Wednesday, June 16, 2010 3:24 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

I've seen a couple of the re-fx'ed episodes. As well as that DS9 Trouble with Tribbles episode. The original ship looks as grand as can be.

Still, I liked the first movie redesign a lot. It really does look to me like a better ship.

I'm sorry, Chris.

--Anthony

"On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you." --Auraptor

"This vile and revolting malice - this is their true colors, always has been, you're just seeing it without the mask of justifications and excuses they hide it behind, is all. Make sure to remember it once they put the mask back on." --Fremdfirma

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Wednesday, June 16, 2010 3:44 PM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:

I'm sorry, Chris.

My phaser is set on kill.....

The laughing Chrisisall

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Wednesday, June 16, 2010 3:52 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

I knew I'd wind up on your list after the disparaging comments I made about hand phasers. ;-)

--Anthony

Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews, Wulfenstar. I apologize for the inconvenience.

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Wednesday, June 16, 2010 4:00 PM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello,

I knew I'd wind up on your list after the disparaging comments I made about hand phasers. ;-)

Why you- I oughta...

The laughing Chrisisall

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Thursday, June 17, 2010 12:04 AM

LWAVES

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello,

I knew I'd wind up on your list after the disparaging comments I made about hand phasers. ;-)

Why you- I oughta...

The laughing Chrisisall

There's a particular rock formation being set up right now for the fight of the....err....minute. Phasers not allowed but ripped shirts are obligatory.

The minimalist look of TOS was always one of my biggest problems (among many) with Enterprise (the series). For a show supposedly set before TOS it was just way too advanced looking, it didn't fit - but then what did. They could have at least attempted to make it look a bit more like TOS in both the interior and exterior of the ship. I understand they didn't want to give it a 60's look but it ended up looking more advanced than some of future set shows.

"The greatest invention ever is not the wheel. It's the second wheel." - Rich Hall

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Thursday, June 17, 2010 7:36 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by lwaves:

The minimalist look of TOS was always one of my biggest problems (among many) with Enterprise (the series).

Same here.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Thursday, June 17, 2010 7:49 AM

OLDGUY

What Would Mal do ?

uh.. Chris... I think it was called "budget" (grin).
poor guys had to reuse props so many times it was almost fun trying to spot a component from one epi to the next....I guess that was part of what made trekin fun cause you could pretty much replicate most things at home with a pajama tshirt, some glitter for logo letter, your mom's old blender and the pilot lights off your dad's old fender amp...and you were all set to play capn Kirk in your basement.

but yeah..Trek shows n movies all at least seemed to create ships that "made sense"....unlike Starwars where we see 3 mile long ship bellies in the opening scene and you're trying to figure out what possible use all those "things" sticking out could be for.

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Thursday, June 17, 2010 10:05 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

"unlike Starwars where we see 3 mile long ship bellies in the opening scene and you're trying to figure out what possible use all those "things" sticking out could be for."

Hello,

It's ironic, because I like Star Wars ships for that same reason. (The old Star Wars ships, mostly.) All those 'things' sticking out seem to have some kind of purpose. Hoses and protrusions and cooling fins and...well... Texture. Made it feel like a real machine, with all the ugly bits and bobs real machines tend to have. The three-mile-long ships made sense to me because those ships were supposed to be carrying a hundred-thousand troops along with tanks and humvees (walkers, etc) and essentially all the stuff you'd need to fight a war on a planet. Everything we've got sitting in Iraq is supposed to fit inside one of those monsters.

Meanwhile I look at the poor Galaxy class, which seems to be big for nothing based on their evac capacity. The saucer sep irks me because it's ostensibly so that people can escape a battle... But it just sticks them all in a big sitting duck- no warp capability. Plus it removes the most powerful phaser array of the ship from the 'battle' section. It's no wonder they stopped using saucer sep for anything but crash-landings.

Starting with the Oberth class, Trek ships started to make serious design errors.

--Anthony

Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews, Wulfenstar. I apologize for the inconvenience.

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Friday, June 18, 2010 5:18 PM

TRAVELER

I like the original Enterprise design. It is the wonderful pearl white paint on the film versions, that followed, that I like. Put the The Original Enterprise with that paint and you have the most cherry looking starship of all time. But as for paint jobs, we are talking apples and oranges. If the original Star Trek had the advanced special effects of the film versions then we may have seen something different in the color scheme. Given the technologies of the late 60's it is a damn fine ship.

We have Walter "Matt" Jefferies to thank for this original design.

http://www.imdb.com/mymovies/list?l=28764731
Traveler

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Friday, June 18, 2010 5:57 PM

REENACT12321

I'm mostly a dabbler into the Trek universe. A dozen episodes of the newer series each, 2 dozen of TNG, most of the original episodes, and all the films. Okay, well by most people on the outside looking in, a fan, by real fans, a dabbler. Lets just say I never spent time tracking down details about the origin of tribbles. I saved that for some other series'

But I have to give a big "I second" to the cluttered, glassy, white hot, "everything gives a lense flare, or a blue spectrum" aesthetics of the JJ Abrahms film. The bridge being at the heart of that style and by far the most boggling. The visual style of the opening scenes with sparks flying, people falling, cameras shaking and being really in on the action gave a great sense of chaos which is really appropriate for that scene. But to me it felt like someone forgot to turn that switch off. That cramped, things are a bit of a blur feel never left and I frankly found it exhausting. I hold the same complaint of every Michael Bay film, as well as a slew of other action films that, "action is crazy! so it should be consuming and hard to tell what's going on" It makes sense for moments, but when used for extended periods it just is.... exhausting. I cite Chris Nolan's Dark Knight as a great example of pulling back the camera, and use of angles that both express speed/movement/hectic action without feeling like you're a camera that has been thrown into a clothes dryer with your favorite hero and villain.

but anyway,
I appreciate the minimalist design, however being a military historian in my spare time, and a computer programmer in my professional time, I totally see the argument for functionalism, buttons can be reassigned (think how many different things you use your keyboard for from one application to another) but they still have labels, and clear purpose. Even highly trained navy officers have a few "idiot proof" elements at the helm.

"...we need a hood ornament..."

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Friday, June 18, 2010 5:58 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by Oldguy:
uh.. Chris... I think it was called "budget" (grin).

Yep. Read David Gerrold's book "Trouble With Tribbles" about the making of that episode. Had to be careful with the fight scene in the bar, because the tables and chairs came from the studio comissary. Also discusses how expensive just plain corridor was to make.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Saturday, June 19, 2010 4:50 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:
Quote:
Originally posted by Oldguy:
uh.. Chris... I think it was called "budget" (grin).

Yep. Read David Gerrold's book "Trouble With Tribbles" about the making of that episode. Had to be careful with the fight scene in the bar, because the tables and chairs came from the studio comissary. Also discusses how expensive just plain corridor was to make.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

Hello,

Even as a youth, the unpainted wood in the corridors bugged me. It's near the ceiling, when they pass from section to section. I used to think, "Really? You couldn't paint that little piece of wood?"

--Anthony

Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews, Wulfenstar. I apologize for the inconvenience.

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Monday, June 21, 2010 7:47 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:

Even as a youth, the unpainted wood in the corridors bugged me. It's near the ceiling, when they pass from section to section. I used to think, "Really? You couldn't paint that little piece of wood?"

Tony, that's wood coloured metal, to give the corridors an organic touch in space!

The laughing Chrisisall

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Monday, June 21, 2010 9:44 AM

OPPYH

'Spectre of the Gun'

Prime example how minimal sets and budget can create some really thick, creepy atmosphere.

Man, that's a great episode.

-------------------------------------------------

70's TV FOREVER

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Monday, June 21, 2010 11:25 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by OPPYH:

Prime example how minimal sets and budget can create some really thick, creepy atmosphere.

That clock in mid air...

The laughing Chrisisall

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Monday, June 21, 2010 5:27 PM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by reenact12321:

But I have to give a big "I second" to the cluttered, glassy, white hot, "everything gives a lense flare, or a blue spectrum" aesthetics of the JJ Abrahms film. The bridge being at the heart of that style and by far the most boggling. The visual style of the opening scenes with sparks flying, people falling, cameras shaking and being really in on the action gave a great sense of chaos which is really appropriate for that scene. But to me it felt like someone forgot to turn that switch off.

My biggest peeve with that flick was the window on the bridge.
A person in a ship traveling at warp & subwarp speeds can't *see* other ships through a WINDOW due to the relative distances between them inherent in space travel at such velocities. The only thing you could make out is a planet you're orbiting, or a ship you're about to ram in the last mili-second.
Not very useful or even logical IMO *CRACK*!!

The laughing Chrisisall

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Monday, June 21, 2010 6:02 PM

TRAVELER

The bridge on the JJ Abrams Enterprise gave me a headache. Imagine your keyboard glowing in your face. Even the Next Generation looked more like a cocktail lounge then the bridge of a spaceship. But we are talking several hundred years, so who can say what would be practicle. I prefer the original. I thought Firefly had a great bridge. Simple and effective. Being a more advanced design and a military vessel I can see the Enterprise having a more complicated bridge. I don't see Solo playing with plastic dinasaurs on his consule.

http://www.imdb.com/mymovies/list?l=28764731
Traveler

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Tuesday, June 22, 2010 7:46 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by traveler:
The bridge on the JJ Abrams Enterprise gave me a headache.

But it *would* make for a fine Apple computer store.
Hey....

The laughing Chrisisall

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Tuesday, June 22, 2010 11:23 AM

11THHOUR

Star Trek TOS had to come up with creative choices to make up for a small budget. Some of the episodes were lit in such a cool way. Those plain walls could have a few areas of intensely colored light thrown across them to provide swaths of neat Sci-Fi colors as backdrops for the actors. Color TV was a big deal in the mid 1960s and the art director/lighting made good use of it. A color gel on a light doesn't cost much and gives a grey wall a vibrant Sci-Fi feeling.

The original bridge was a well thought out design, it did work both functionally and visually overall. The one and only access situation was a liability, but that aspect did provide drama for a few of the stories. However, the main thing that didn't really make sense was to park the bridge right up on top of the saucer section where it made a great (unprotected) target for that week's enraged aliens' battleship. Since the bridge crew really didn't need to look out a "window" to see what was going on (thank you view screen!), it would have made much more sense to locate the bridge more deeply inside the ship, with lots of extra protective bulkheads, so that "Let's aim for the bubble on the top!" didn't become the enemy battle cry.

Of course the bridge "here we are!" on top design was a continuing theme with later Trek incarnations, so it appears the placement had more to do with a symbolic 'crown of the ship' than actual tactical and safety matters.

Star Trek TOS still has a spirit and energy that is timeless. The chemistry of the actors was classic, and future incarnations did what they could to try and replicate that.

11th Hour

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Tuesday, June 22, 2010 11:41 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by 11thHour:
However, the main thing that didn't really make sense was to park the bridge right up on top of the saucer section where it made a great (unprotected) target for that week's enraged aliens' battleship. Since the bridge crew really didn't need to look out a "window" to see what was going on (thank you view screen!), it would have made much more sense to locate the bridge more deeply inside the ship, with lots of extra protective bulkheads

Starships weren't made to go into battle without shields. Phasers cut through bulkheads like butter. Even shielded, the M-5 computer successfully killed a starship.
I submit that without shields, it doesn't matter WHERE the bridge is.
It was only in the later movies that phasers & photo torpedoes were toned down to just "mess a ship up" without shields.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Tuesday, June 22, 2010 11:43 AM

CITIZEN

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
But it *would* make for a fine Apple computer store.
Hey....

Really? I thought the new film was all form over function, over priced, over hyped and lacking in substance.

Actually you might be on to something.

--------------------------------------------------

If you play a Microsoft CD backwards you can hear demonic voices. The scary part is that if you play it forwards it installs Windows.

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Tuesday, June 22, 2010 11:46 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:

Actually you might be on to something.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Tuesday, June 22, 2010 11:48 AM

CITIZEN

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by 11thHour:
However, the main thing that didn't really make sense was to park the bridge right up on top of the saucer section where it made a great (unprotected) target for that week's enraged aliens' battleship. Since the bridge crew really didn't need to look out a "window" to see what was going on (thank you view screen!), it would have made much more sense to locate the bridge more deeply inside the ship, with lots of extra protective bulkheads
Starships weren't made to go into battle without shields. Phasers cut through bulkheads like butter. Even shielded, the M-5 computer successfully killed a starship.
I submit that without shields, it doesn't matter WHERE the bridge is.
It was only in the later movies that phasers & photo torpedoes were toned down to just "mess a ship up" without shields.

The laughing Chrisisall

Nothing about those ships makes sense from a design point of view. The Impulse engines are meant to be some sci-fi fusion rocket, where they it on the saucer section all you'd get is the ship spinning in circles because they're well away from the centre of gravity. Also, two big chunks of Hull separated by spindly little neck.

Seriously those ships are not up to code, they don't even carry enough life vests or fire extinguishers.

Also, I'm pretty sure Scotty isn't Scottish, why would he pretend? Probably an illegal immigrant.

--------------------------------------------------

If you play a Microsoft CD backwards you can hear demonic voices. The scary part is that if you play it forwards it installs Windows.

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Tuesday, June 22, 2010 1:55 PM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:

Nothing about those ships makes sense from a design point of view. The Impulse engines are meant to be some sci-fi fusion rocket, where they it on the saucer section all you'd get is the ship spinning in circles because they're well away from the centre of gravity.

Nice to hear from a silly silly British man with a backwards 21st Century education.

They happen to BE in the centre of the mass of the ship, or do you know nothing of gravimetric dispersal design? No. Of course you don't.

"Fusion rocket." LOL. Very quaint.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Tuesday, June 22, 2010 11:24 PM

CITIZEN

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Nice to hear from a silly silly British man with a backwards 21st Century education.
They happen to BE in the centre of the mass of the ship, or do you know nothing of gravimetric dispersal design? No. Of course you don't.
"Fusion rocket." LOL. Very quaint.

Technically I'm not British, my species merely spawned in Britain after we came here from what you would call the 29th century. Originally we were going to conquer you and make you our slaves, but as it turned out, you're not worth it; we get the same benefit buying Nike trainers.

Anyway, our scientists have conclusively proven that "Gravimetric Dispersal Design" does not, in fact, exist, and is merely a figment of an over active barrel of Romulan Ale acting on some Andorian Flu Medicine the design engineers were taking at the time. In fact Federation Star ships have been literally flying in circles for two hundred years, apparently no one has noticed.

Except the Klingons, but they were wiped away before they could tell anyone.

Our ships are designed around the much more efficient four dimensional hyper-dodecahehexon. A shape that happens to appear, in three dimensional space, as a large Halibut and chips. It moves through the use of imaginary numbers stored in a quantum matrix, manipulated through the power of reversed negative positive thinking in higher dimensional feng shui space. This is probably impossible, so works quite well.

--------------------------------------------------

If you play a Microsoft CD backwards you can hear demonic voices. The scary part is that if you play it forwards it installs Windows.

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Tuesday, June 22, 2010 11:45 PM

CHRISISALL

I have been out-technobabbled.

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Wednesday, June 23, 2010 11:02 AM

TRAVELER

Chrisisall:

You need to put a fish in your ear and then you will understand. Of course no fish would ever enter my ear do to the wax build-up. I just nod my head and smile. This gives the impression I understand or I have something caught in my throat. Either way it seems to make everyone around me pleased.

http://www.imdb.com/mymovies/list?l=28764731
Traveler

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Wednesday, June 23, 2010 11:58 AM

CHRISISALL

"42"

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