OMG!! Must read. Sony exec claims Buffy idea wasnt Joss! by Gorramreavers

BUFFYVERSE

OMG!! Must read. Sony exec claims Buffy idea wasnt Joss!

POSTED BY: GORRAMREAVERS
UPDATED: Monday, March 7, 2005 08:06
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Saturday, March 5, 2005 6:03 AM

Found at buffy.nu:

A Buffy Series Without Joss Whedon ?
From Lostcolonyentertainment.com - 2005-03-5th

For more than a decade, Writer/Producer/Director Joss Whedon has been synonymous with the "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" franchise, so much so that it seems inconceivable that anyone would even attempt to launch a new film or television series about the legendary super heroine without him. But strangely enough, that was, or maybe still is, a plan in the works.

"It’s a major misnomer to call Joss the ’creator’ of the Buffy Summers character," says a Sony executive who asked not to be identified. "As wonderful as Joss’ writing is, he didn’t come up with that character. He got the gig to do the first movie as a write-for-hire job. He wasn’t thrilled with what they did to his script and smartly managed to gain control of the TV series but really, ’Buffy’ isn’t his baby."

The original "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" movie came out in 1992 and starred Kristy Swanson as ’The Chosen One’ sent to save the world from demons. The 20th Century Fox film, scripted by hired gun Joss Whedon, was directed by Fran Rubel Kuzui, who also produced the motion picture with Kaz Kuzui. Whedon, after complaining loudly about the production team responsible for "ruining his script," managed to land a deal with Fox to produce the TV version in 1997, garnering creative control over the Buffy character. The Kuzui’s were attached as Executive Producers on the show (which aired for five seasons on the WB network before moving to UPN) but wielded no real power on the series, which is largely where things got sticky.

"Joss did a tremendous job expanding on the Buffy character and its mythology," says the Sony executive. "Aside from Buffy’s parents, who were unnamed in the movie, the only character from the movie to cross over to the series was the Slayer herself. Characters like Spike, Giles, Xander, the Master, Glory...that was all Joss."

However, somewhere along the way, egos were bruised, finances were disputed, and a rift occurred between Whedon and the franchise’s original "parents" with the Kuzui’s attempting to continue on with their own version of the super heroine...all without Whedon.

"I don’t think I’m revealing any big trade secrets in Hollywood by mentioning that a script had been circulating for years for a proposed big-screen Buffy sequel that would’ve been produced by the Kuzui’s with absolutely no involvement whatsoever from Joss," says the Sony exec. "The script was rather convoluted, I thought, and focused more on a male slayer character than Buffy, which made little sense to me...but make no mistake, the Kuzui’s retained the rights to continue with their own interpretation and as far as I know, remain well within their rights to do a new Buffy movie or series without having to consult with Joss."

If that’s not confusing, to further complicate matters, two years ago, a third party reportedly jumped into the fray, just after Whedon announced that he was ending Buffy’s run on UPN in 2003. The plan, according to Hollywood sources, was to create a completely separate TV program with a new actress taking over from series star Sarah Michelle Gellar.

"I was contacted by a producer -- whose name I won’t mention -- and asked to submit ’Joss Whedon-type material’," says "Communication Breakdown" director Richard O’Sullivan. "This was during the period in which I was first starting to pitch ’Breach of Heaven’ as a TV series and the obvious comparisons came up since they’re both kind of in the same genre. They wanted something ’Whedonesque’ but didn’t really give me any details about what the project was."

Part of O’Sullivan’s writing sample was subsequently leaked by a disgruntled former associate to Harry Knowles’ Ain’t It Cool News website, which initially reported it as the 2003/2004 season opener of Buffy’s sister show, "Angel," thus sparking a debate among Whedon fans about the script’s validity.

"At first I freaked," says O’Sullivan. "I thought, ’Fuck, the whole thing just went up in smoke.’ But then, my phone rang."

O’Sullivan says the producers of the proposed show concocted a plan to use the controversy to their advantage. The idea was to continue with plans to secure the rights to the Buffy character from the Kazui’s (who still had the option to use the main character from the movie, though not the characters or character histories from Whedon’s series), but now they wanted to rush a pilot into "top secret" production and book Screen Gems studios in Wilmington, N.C. (host to such series as "Dawson’s Creek" and "One Tree Hill") to serve as the home for the new show.

"I was offered a producer’s credit in exchange for basically acting as the ’front man’ for the pilot," says O’Sullivan. "They wanted to do business as ’Breach of Heaven,’ cast as ’Breach of Heaven,’ basically tell everyone we were making the ’Breach of Heaven’ pilot...but then when the cast and crew showed up, shoot the pilot for the new Buffy."

O’Sullivan was asked to script the pilot, with specific instructions given that the story would not be set in Sunnydale nor would it include characters from Whedon’s shows, other than Buffy and the odd mention of the Slayer’s mother, who was not to ever be referred to as "Joyce" (since "Joyce Summers" was a specific creation of Whedon).

The end result, which carried the working title "Slayer: The Adventures of Buffy Summers," picked up some 90 years in the future with the heroine frozen in time, literally turned to wood, and part of an art piece depicting a war between humans and demons.

"The idea was that at some point after the turn of the new millennium, a great battle took place between good and evil and for whatever reason, a powerful mystical force froze Buffy and the demons she was fighting for almost a century," says O’Sullivan. "When the story opens, a tour guide is explaining to a group of school kids -- a mixture of humans and demons -- that the world 90 years ago was a much different, less tolerant place."

Naturally, Buffy is released from the spell, and, after disposing of the demons she had been frozen with for nine decades, is forced to deal with the new inter-dimensional world order.

"It was a very Patton-after-the-war type script," says O’Sullivan. "Here you had Buffy, instantly transported to a new place in time, all her friends gone, the war she had fought since she was sixteen years old over...not knowing who to trust, not knowing how to deal with the fact that she’s not supposed to be fighting the monsters she was brought forth to kill. Plus, now she has to wrap her head around concepts like vampires and demons having free will and coexisting with humans in everyday life. It was an interesting new dynamic and not just a rehash of roads already traveled."

Plans for the series, which was being geared toward syndication or cable, were put on hold last year after negotiations to secure the rights stalled amidst the predictable legal wrangling. O’Sullivan believes, however, that the show, which likely would have starred Polish-born actress Aleks West (whom O’Sullivan later cast in his film "Communication Breakdown") would still make for some interesting television.

"Don’t get me wrong," says the filmmaker. "I’m a huge Joss Whedon fan. What he did with that series, and with ’Angel,’ was groundbreaking stuff. It blew the original movie away and I actually found Fran Kuzui’s film to be rather entertaining. But I think there are still so many different directions you can take that character."

Currently, plans remain in the works to bring O’Sullivan’s "Breach of Heaven" -- presumably the real "Breach of Heaven’ this time -- to television.

LINK: http://www.buffy.nu/article.php3?id_article=8653

Well..the return of Buffy maybe, but not exactly Buffy. This is nuts. Mostly if its true.

"..it is my very favorite gun."

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Saturday, March 5, 2005 6:23 AM

STARPILOTGRAINGER

Well, the male slayer movie sounded really stupid. The 'Buffy in the future' could be a cool idea, but I don't think I'd be terribly interested without Joss' involvement.

I think it's probably that, although it's possible someone else came up with a nutshell idea for Buffy, for all intents and purposes Whedon still 'created' her.

On the other hand, the idea of Buffy becoming an iconic character much like Batman, open to many different interpretations, does have some appeal. It's like she's been declared good enough to have been given to history.

Star Pilot Grainger
"Remember, the enemy's gate is down."
LJ: http://www.livejournal.com/users/newnumber6 (real)
http://www.livejournal.com/users/alternaljournal (fictional)
Unreachable Star: http://www.unreachablestar.net - Comics & SF News/Reviews/Opinions

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Saturday, March 5, 2005 6:24 AM

MIKEYMO

This is fake fake fake.

Check out the rest of the website, and you'll see that it's basically a self-promotion tool for the douchebag that wrote the story and quoted himself in it. Weak weak weak.

I can't really get upset, because it's all ridiculous and this guy is just trying to get some publicity for himself, his actors and their almost-certainly-shitty-movie... Still, he's just trying to get his sub-troma fare out there by piggybacking Joss's brilliance, and that ain't right.

He tried something similar with a Wonderwoman casting story that some actress in his almost-certainly-shitty-movie was the frontrunner for the lead. Keep dreaming, buddy. This whole site reminds me of the government-produced "news reports"-slash-propoganda concerning Medicare benefits.

I'd vow to never see this guy's movie, but I'm pretty sure I'll never even get the chance to reject it.

"Be ashamed to die before you have scored some victory for humanity." -- Horace Mann

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Saturday, March 5, 2005 6:26 AM

STARPILOTGRAINGER

Oh. Yeah, well, that's just stupid then. I hate liars like that.

Star Pilot Grainger
"Remember, the enemy's gate is down."
LJ: http://www.livejournal.com/users/newnumber6 (real)
http://www.livejournal.com/users/alternaljournal (fictional)
Unreachable Star: http://www.unreachablestar.net - Comics & SF News/Reviews/Opinions

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Saturday, March 5, 2005 6:30 AM

MIKEYMO

Quote:
Originally posted by StarPilotGrainger:
Well, the male slayer movie sounded really stupid. The 'Buffy in the future' could be a cool idea, but I don't think I'd be terribly interested without Joss' involvement.

I think it's probably that, although it's possible someone else came up with a nutshell idea for Buffy, for all intents and purposes Whedon still 'created' her.
Quote:

As to the male slayer thing - from what I remember, that was a spec script for AtS5. Basically Spike was in the white room, and he had to wear that little necklace to live, and he was human again... the whole thing was pretty bad.

And please hold no doubts as to whose idea Buffy was. I'd hate to think that this moron (O'Sullivan) is sewing seeds of doubt.

"Be ashamed to die before you have scored some victory for humanity." -- Horace Mann

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Saturday, March 5, 2005 6:51 AM

EMBERS

this was first posted over at Whedonesque:
http://whedonesque.com/?comments=6221
Simon (who runs Whedonesque) explained it is a publicity stunt lie,
you post something really stupid and stir up the fandoms...
Simon explained it like this:

Quote:

Anyhow, what's mentioned in this article is drivel and not very good drivel at that. The whole purpose behind this article is to get publicity for Richard O'Sullivan. Those with long memories will remember about the "script" for Angel season 5 episode 1 that appeared at AICN. It was leaked in such a way so he could get maximum publicity.

This Buffy article will get picked up by webmasters and journalists who lurk here and so there will be a couple of days of "New non-Whedon Buffy series?" headlines at the usual sites. Which in turn will cause more consternation among Buffy fans.

Cast your mind back to this Wonder Woman article that came from the same site. It got mentioned at Whedonesque, moviehole.net picked it up as a result and so in turn did other sites. And of course, there was no truth in the article.

Quite frankly this Buffy article is a disgrace and a highly cynical attempt to get noticed. The best thing to happen would be for this article not to get mentioned anywhere else.
Simon | March 05, 12:00 CET

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Saturday, March 5, 2005 6:59 AM

NESS

Gee, a Slayer in the future has already been done. It's called Fray, and gosh, Joss created that, too.

Yeah, more Buffy would be great and what Star Pilot Grainger said about Buffy being like Batman with the different interpretations and stuff is a neat thought, but I really can't see myself watching another Buffy show or movie without Joss. I mean, people have the right to put their own spin on things but people can also screw things up.

If this ever happens, I'm not sure how I would react, but it's weird to think of Buffy and not Joss, too, at the same time.

"Sir, I think you have a problem with your brain being missing." - Zoe

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Saturday, March 5, 2005 7:03 AM

THESOMNAMBULIST

Hmmm a non Joss Whedon 'Buffy'..........

.....Wasn't that essentially Dark Angel?

*cynically wanders off*

www.cirqus.com
For Pictures:
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Saturday, March 5, 2005 7:29 AM

STARPILOTGRAINGER

Quote:
Originally posted by Ness:
Gee, a Slayer in the future has already been done. It's called Fray, and gosh, Joss created that, too.

Yeah, more Buffy would be great and what Star Pilot Grainger said about Buffy being like Batman with the different interpretations and stuff is a neat thought, but I really can't see myself watching another Buffy show or movie without Joss. I mean, people have the right to put their own spin on things but people can also screw things up.

If this ever happens, I'm not sure how I would react, but it's weird to think of Buffy and not Joss, too, at the same time.

Right.. I'm not saying I'm absolutely sure I'd want it to be like that, but at the same time, the thought of an iconic Buffy has its appeal, even if I wouldn't watch most of them - maybe a few decades down the line it'd be fun to see someone else's take on the idea, but not anytime soon.

Star Pilot Grainger
"Remember, the enemy's gate is down."
LJ: http://www.livejournal.com/users/newnumber6 (real)
http://www.livejournal.com/users/alternaljournal (fictional)
Unreachable Star: http://www.unreachablestar.net - Comics & SF News/Reviews/Opinions

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Saturday, March 5, 2005 9:12 AM

SAMWIBATT

I have a hard time taking seriously anything that calls our man "Josh" anyway. They do get his name right in the article, but if you look at the title bar for the page it reads "Josh Whedon" and the URL for it has the file name joshwhedon.html.

Sigh. I saw this before I read that it was a fake, and figured it was just because of the insistence on anonymity - the Sony exec who spilled the beans on this "asked not to be named", and they never say who *did* invent the character, if Joss didn't. Pretty pathetic. Such vague rumor does pass as news here in the U.S., though.

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Saturday, March 5, 2005 7:05 PM

BATMARLOWE

At a Q and A at the 2003 ComicCon I asked Joss if he saw Buffy as being a character like other heroic characters (Zorro, Tarzan) as having a life beyond him. He said he did and that he had always intended that for Buffy. So if that's going to happen then someday we will see other actresses play Buffy in stories written by people with no direct connection to Joss.

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Saturday, March 5, 2005 9:40 PM

11THHOUR

Okay it's a fake article, but some of it reflected attitudes that are prevelant in Hollywood. This is the stuff that really grated my cheese...

Quote:

-- and asked to submit ’Joss Whedon-type material’,"

And...

Quote:

They wanted something ’Whedonesque’ but didn’t really give me any details about what the project was."

Oh, they want, "I can't believe it's NOT Whedon!"

There have already been shows that attempt to do an "Imitation Joss" and all they accomplish is to provide proof of how good Joss really is. They may be able to emmulate some of the forms, but the soul ain't there...

I realize show biz is business, but I just get so annoyed when the talents of truly creative, gifted people are treated like a product you can do a knock-off of.

11thHour

________________________________________________

"Because teenage pranks are fun when you're about to die!" - Hoban Washburne

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Sunday, March 6, 2005 7:27 AM

DIETCOKE

It really is Joss that makes things work. I was so excited to learn about "Point Pleasant" because Jane wrote and produced it, but I hated the show. David Fury's episodes of "Lost" are good, but not Joss quality. He truely is in a league of his ownself.

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Sunday, March 6, 2005 7:47 AM

SAMWIBATT

Quote:
There have already been shows that attempt to do an "Imitation Joss" and all they accomplish is to provide proof of how good Joss really is. They may be able to emmulate some of the forms, but the soul ain't there...

I imagine the poor writers they tap for things like this might even be capable of some really good stuff - but the requirement that it be like someone else's work hurts it. Even worse, they don't want it to be Joss-like, they want it to fit some suit's idea of what Joss-like is.

In the video game business I worked for a company that was a dedicated cloner of ideas. They kept trying to take ideas from popular Japanese games, and "improve" them by setting them in some grungy version of the worst parts of New York. They kept insisting that the Japanese stuff was good but it'd be "better" if it just weren't so darn Japanese. Their ideas of improving stuff killed any charm the games had, every single time. I bet it's like this with Joss-cloning.

It happens whenever U.S. TV people try to import British shows, too. They have to set them in New York, dumb them down, and make them all "edgy". It gets really annoying.

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Sunday, March 6, 2005 9:00 AM

TLACOOK

Point Pleasant is Marti's baby. Jane is working with Tim on The Inside.

And I have to disagree about Fury on Lost. This last episode "numbers" was written by Fury and was beyond amazing. Definitely as good (if not better) than many Buffy or Angel episodes.

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Sunday, March 6, 2005 9:44 AM

DIETCOKE

Oops, your right, I stand corrected, I ment Marti. I missed last week's episode of Lost so I can't speak to that one, but I did see one of his earlier episodes.

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Sunday, March 6, 2005 10:37 AM

LISTER

So let me get this right. They were going to make a future Buffy the VAMPIRE SLAYER with no vampires to slay? Everyone's friends and get along great. That sounds interesting...for about FIVE MINUTES!

Run to the Tower, and call out the Magus
If he has caused this, we'll tear out his pages
Throw him in shackles, AND REMOVE HIS HANDS!
- Red Horse Rainbow, CLUTCH

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Sunday, March 6, 2005 10:53 AM

DIETCOKE

Just when you think you KNOW how stupid TV execs are they turn around and drop to a new low....

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Sunday, March 6, 2005 10:53 AM

DIETCOKE

Just when you think you KNOW how stupid TV execs are they turn around and drop to a new low....

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Sunday, March 6, 2005 9:29 PM

11THHOUR

Quote:
Originally posted by SamWibatt:
I imagine the poor writers they tap for things like this might even be capable of some really good stuff - but the requirement that it be like someone else's work hurts it. Even worse, they don't want it to be Joss-like, they want it to fit some suit's idea of what Joss-like is.

Excellent points... and the last one makes me think of a writer trying to work while wearing TWO straight jackets.

Quote:
In the video game business I worked for a company that was a dedicated cloner of ideas. They kept trying to take ideas from popular Japanese games, and "improve" them by setting them in some grungy version of the worst parts of New York. They kept insisting that the Japanese stuff was good but it'd be "better" if it just weren't so darn Japanese. Their ideas of improving stuff killed any charm the games had, every single time. I bet it's like this with Joss-cloning.

A classic example of folks who "don't get it". But then people who are dedicated to copying most likely lack the "personal software" to really understand what makes something work.

Now, in the hands of bright, creative people, it is possible to do an homage, or come up with a new take on an existing idea. But for it to work, it has to bring something new and imaginative to the table.

Quote:
It happens whenever U.S. TV people try to import British shows, too. They have to set them in New York, dumb them down, and make them all "edgy". It gets really annoying.

Oh yeah, you got that right. I'm a big fan of British shows and on the occasions I've seen previews of the American incarnation, well I remember groaning and knowing the poor mutant will have a short, awkward, painful, life...

Joss Whedon - Accept No Imitations.

11thHour

________________________________________________

"Because teenage pranks are fun when you're about to die!" - Hoban Washburne

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Monday, March 7, 2005 4:19 AM

THIEFJEHAT

Quote:
Originally posted by MikeyMo:
This is fake fake fake.

I do certainly hope this is fake. Wow, I sit down at my desk this morning and read a story like this.

I have to admit though, I have watched similar tales of woe turn out to be quite true. But I too read this guys site and I think it's a forgery.

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Monday, March 7, 2005 8:06 AM

ZEEK

Well I'm glad it's a fake. Though it does worry me about what the future holds for Buffy. This just does sound like a bad idea. There didn't seem to be anywhere for that story to go.

It also annoys the heck out of me thinking that executives might say stuff like "whedonesque writing". Especially when it seems like Whedon himself has such a hard time getting to run his own projects. Buffy was the only show he got to end on his own terms, well at least it wasn't cancelled. Seems like everyone is quick to use Whedon as a catch phrase in advertising but no executives want to trust the guy with a show.

Thank you Universal for being a shining beacon of hope in such a dark world.

I remember reading an article once that said "I don't want to live in a world without Joss TV" or something close to it. How true that article was. There is just nothing out there that really interests me like Joss did.

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