BUFFYVERSE

If you could change 3 things about Buffy season 7

POSTED BY: OPPYH
UPDATED: Tuesday, August 12, 2008 16:26
SHORT URL: http://goo.gl/odKye
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Monday, June 20, 2005 1:23 PM

OPPYH


3. Kill off Willow and Xander, because being my favorite characters, they deserved much, much more than this season had to offer. They could have both been zombies, and it would have had the same feel. Shame.

2. Tone down the potential slayers. They got the limelight, and didn't really deserve it. They could have showed up in episode 19, and it would have had the same effect in the end.

1. Kennedy, Kennedy, Kennedy. If ever there was a more annoying character... no, there was never a more annoying character. Why, oh why in the world did the writers think Willow needed to fall in in love with a macho, man hating, militant, arrogant, selfish, whiny, spoiled brat? I can't write about this too long, she is the reason I almost didn't finish 7. HORRIBLE MISTAKE.

overall a good season, but it really should have come back to the core characters, and instead it drifted, and that is a crying shame.

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Monday, June 20, 2005 1:41 PM

LUCIDDREAMS


1. Change the focus on characters - I also wanted more focus on the core characters. It felt like the heart of the show was missing. Like SMG constantly says: more Xander! I'd also want more Giles. And yeah, less potentials. I also heard Joss was going to bring in AB in the end. I don't care how many times they've done that; I would have loved that! In retrospect, I think there probably was too much Spike but JM made it enjoyable.

2. More stand alone episodes - Look at Storyteller, Selfless, and Conversations with Dead People. Notice what they have in common? Towards the end of s5 and s7 I felt the seasons suffered from too much focus on the finale's arc. The other seasons did better jobs of having stand alones without sacrificing the arcs. When the episodes became all about the big finales they just all blended together in my mind.

3. 2 hour season finale.

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Monday, June 20, 2005 1:47 PM

GLORYBE


1. Tara/The First speaking to Willow instead of Cassie.

2. The Buffy gets one wish and brings back Tara storyline that Joss didn't get to do because of trouble getting Amber Benson to come back.

3. More wicca for Willow, more funny for Xander and more crazy for Anya.

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Monday, June 20, 2005 2:17 PM

STARPILOTGRAINGER


1. Set up the whole 'make every girl a slayer' thing better. I love the idea, but I would have liked to see it better established - as it was, it looked like something they pulled out of thin air, "oh, might as well be magic." I would have liked to see something along the lines of (very roughly) them questioning why the first Evil launching the attack now was supposed to be because of there being two slayers at once, which leads them to the realization that... "Hey... if there _can_ be two slayers at once, why can't there be more?" "A new slayer being called doesn't depend on there being no slayers left in the world, a slayer dying just pulls the trigger."
It looked like this was the kind of idea they _wanted_ to go with, but they never quite pulled it off in a way that really gelled.
2. Overall a better sense of pacing, rather than huge apocalyptic monsters like the Ubervamp appearing mid-season and being unstoppable, but then being easily dispatched episodes later.
3. Two words: All Nude. Err, sorry, my mind was in the naughty place. Four words: Tara instead of Cassie.

Star Pilot Grainger
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Monday, June 20, 2005 2:27 PM

EVILMIKE


Quote:
Originally posted by StarPilotGrainger:
1. Set up the whole 'make every girl a slayer' thing better. I love the idea, but I would have liked to see it better established - as it was, it looked like something they pulled out of thin air, "oh, might as well be magic." I would have liked to see something along the lines of (very roughly) them questioning why the first Evil launching the attack now was supposed to be because of there being two slayers at once, which leads them to the realization that... "Hey... if there _can_ be two slayers at once, why can't there be more?" "A new slayer being called doesn't depend on there being no slayers left in the world, a slayer dying just pulls the trigger."
It looked like this was the kind of idea they _wanted_ to go with, but they never quite pulled it off in a way that really gelled.


I second this observation. I thought it was an interesting story bit, but I really wanted to see the First discover that there was a second edge to this new opportunity.

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Monday, June 20, 2005 3:08 PM

OPPYH


Quote:
Originally posted by OPPYH:
3. Kill off Willow and Xander, because being my favorite characters, they deserved much, much more than this season had to offer. They could have both been zombies, and it would have had the same feel. Shame.


I just remembered that powerful scene where willow is at Xander's bedside in the hospital, after he loses his eye. Willow starts to break down after he makes that funny comment about Jaws 3-d.
That really got to me, because in that one small scene you could see the love and respect they have for each other. I guess I was too harsh with the killing them off comment. It's just that I wanted more of them during the season, because they were my favorite characters. It just left me a liitle empty at the end.

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Monday, June 20, 2005 3:18 PM

DIETCOKE


Okay. Problem with season seven? Bad acting. Not one of the potentials was interesting including Kennedy. I liked the concept not the excecution.

Calib just creeped me out.....no words.....he was for me the worst....big bad.

NY/NJ Browncoats: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/firefly_nyc

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Monday, June 20, 2005 3:48 PM

GTMAN8503


1) The First. Really turned out to be a lame villan. Perhaps The First could have spent the first part of the season as incorporeal, but then gathered enough energy to become solid (Perhaps by using a "vessel" like The Master did in Season 1, and using the energy sucked out of potential slayers to become solid, becoming an UberCaleb). If the first was solid instead of incorporeal, they could have abandoned the whole arc where he's raising an army of UberVamps, in which case...

2) No potentials needed! If The First didn't raise an army, you wouldn't need an army of potential slayers to fight. Buffy and the Scoobies could have done it alone. For me, the season was going along fine until the potentials showed up (ESPECIALLY KENNEDY). The actresses weren't particularly good, and all of their characters were annoying. And, no potentials means no Kennedy-Willow relationship, which, imo, wasn't well developed. To me, it seemed like:

Kennedy: "I'm a spoiled little rich girl who always gets what I want. I'm also a lesbian, and I think you're hot. I want you."
Willow: "I too am a lesbian. Even though I hardly even know you, I guess we can be lovers. There just aren't that many other lesbians around."

3) One last thing I would change about the season...more Xander, more Willow, more Anya, more Giles, even more Dawn (never thought I'd say that). But, with the potentials out of the way, they'd have more screentime anyways.

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Monday, June 20, 2005 5:45 PM

BATMARLOWE


I'd keep "Conversations with Dead People". I'd change everything else.

But if I had to narrow it down to 3.

1) Lose the Potentials
2) Lose the First
3) Make SMG play at least 60% of her scenes without her arms folded.

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Monday, June 20, 2005 7:17 PM

SIRENKAIN


Bringing Faith back was a good choice,(nice set up for a spin off) but it never seemed to work. She was better in earlier seasons -even before she went evil. The conversations between Faith and Buffy aways seemed lifeless in S7.

Any one else have a problem with Amy suddening hexing Willow, besides the fact she should have hexed Kennedy instead?



Morbid and creep-ifying I got no problem with.

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Monday, June 20, 2005 10:25 PM

ZOOT


Quote:
Originally posted by gtman8503:
To me, it seemed like:

Kennedy: "I'm a spoiled little rich girl who always gets what I want. I'm also a lesbian, and I think you're hot. I want you."
Willow: "I too am a lesbian. Even though I hardly even know you, I guess we can be lovers. There just aren't that many other lesbians around."
.


Hur hur! Am sitting at my desk at work laughing my arse off - very funny indeed!!!

***************************************

Okay, I'm lost, I'm angry, and I'm
armed.

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Monday, June 20, 2005 10:34 PM

FRAY101


Agree with pretty much everything said above but to clarify:

1. No potentials (which rules out Kennedy straight away)

2. As mentioned above, Buffy's wish brings Tara back ("look at my new shoes"! - ah, I'd have been in tears if that had happened).

3. Xander would not betray Buffy. I hate that a few episodes previously he was telling the Potentials how much she deserved their respect, then he too turned his back on her. Yes, I know he lost his eye so was in a grumpy place but all the Scoobies made sacrificies over the years, some physical, some emotional. I just hated that whole storyline where they turned against her.

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Tuesday, June 21, 2005 12:49 AM

CHRONICTHEHEDGEHOG


3. Willow giving girls slayer powers. Buffy's unwilling to sacrifice some of her own humanity to save the world when the Shadow Men try and force it on her, so instead she forces it onto a bunch of girls she's never met.

2. The First. "Argh, we're being attacked by a bratty concept with emotion" Caleb should have been the big bad the whole way through.

3. "We're going to march into the seal and THEN get Willow to give you girls slayer power."

Unlike a lot of people I really would have hated Tara to come back, not because I don't love her but all of season 6 is about how bringing people back from the dead is BAD, Buffy knows this better than anyone. For her to not respect Tara and bring her back, no matter how it's done, gets rid of the only real bit of development Buffy had in the last two years.
I actually really liked the fact they turned against Buffy, I thought it was about time that someone questioned why Buffy was in charge and the fact that maybe someone else should be. However, I thought Giles should have replaced her rather than Faith.

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Tuesday, June 21, 2005 1:10 AM

GROUNDED


1. Buffy wakes up in the first ep of S7 to discover S6 was all just a crazy dream.

2. Um, that's it.

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Tuesday, June 21, 2005 1:25 AM

FRAY101


Quote:
Originally posted by Grounded:
1. Buffy wakes up in the first ep of S7 to discover S6 was all just a crazy dream.

2. Um, that's it.


But that would mean no singing!

Plus she'd still be dead....

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Tuesday, June 21, 2005 1:34 AM

CS


I could go on forever but 3 things:

-No potentials. Or at least not as characters, the concept is ok because it allowed for Buffy to finally be relieved from her duties.

-Return of Oz! He used to make Buffy so great, and I can just see a great Willow/Oz story- willow's gay but Oz loves her. It's been done before but I know it would have worked great on Buffy, the relationship would have been beautiful.

-More Xander. I would have rather had him evil (controlled by the first) than in it hardly at all.

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Tuesday, June 21, 2005 2:04 AM

IAMZOE


I would change just one thing:

1. make the Potentials accents better.

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Tuesday, June 21, 2005 3:57 AM

GWEK


1) A little less talk, a little more action, please. There was a lot of pretty speechifying about how it's time to fight to the bitter end blah blah blah, which was often followed up with MORE talk rather than actually fighting.

2) No Angel in the finale. He's shoehorned in there and they could've come up with another bridge to get Spike onto the other show. I think the pacing of the season would've been better served by Angel coming in earlier, to help fight the uber-vamp.

3) No Caleb. As I understand it, Caleb was an add-on part written for Nathan Fillion after "Firefly" was cancelled. My impression is that, without the introduction of Caleb, Wood might've become the First's "hand", which I think would've been a more interesting arc. Don't get me wrong, it was fun to see Fillion all morbid and creepifying, but I thought Wood was a character with great potential who was largely wasted in the third act of the season.

Honorable mention: Better death scene for Anya. I thought they did the best they could with the time alloted, but she was such an important character throughout the series that I thought she deserved a little more attention.


As an aside, I am, apparently, the only Buffy fan who liked Kennedy.

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Tuesday, June 21, 2005 4:11 AM

SIGMANUNKI


1) Move storyteller to season 6 (it was the only good ep of the season).
2) Magically remove season 7 from existance
3) Rejoice.

----
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Tuesday, June 21, 2005 4:54 AM

ZEEK


1.) No Kennedy/Willow relationship. I don't care if she's around, but the two don't work together.

2.) More explination. The end of conversations with dead people was great. Buffy's mom gave a nice ominous message, but it never really materialized. I really wanted to see Buffy betray Dawn in a big way. Not just sending her away for her own good. Buffy's mom would never have warned Dawn about that. Then there was the whole reason the First chose to attack then. In the episode with the big eye thing that Anya and Giles talk to there's a hint at why he's attacking, but it's never totally explained. In fact the explination seems contradictory. They say it's because of Buffy coming back from the dead still a slayer or something. Well that would mean now is the worst time to strike because there are two slayers instead of one.

3.) Either have Buffy and Spike get together or have them just be friends. The whole relationship just out of reach thing the entire season was annoying.


Also, I really like the mention of Willow making the First corporeal. What I really would have liked though was for this to have been the First's plan all along. Have the First hint at it's strength being that no one can kill it. Have the gang slowly figure out a spell that will make the First corporeal. Then when they finally pull it off in the finale, have the First be far too powerful for them to fight and have it kill Buffy. Possibly let the First get away or have Willow and the others seal it away somehow. Either way it would have been cool to have them end up unleashing the big bad rather than stopping it.

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Tuesday, June 21, 2005 5:32 PM

BATMARLOWE


To Grounded: Amen, brother (or sister)!

To Fray101: I know no Season 6 and 7 means no musical and that Buffy's dead. The end of Season 5 was a tragedy, but it was a beautiful one. If Season 5 had been the end of the show, I wouldn't want it to end in Buffy's death. But since it did end with that beautifully done tragedy I rather see it go out like that than to go on to what IMHO are two inferior seasons. And I'm even willing to sacrifice the musical for that.

Back to Grounded: Did you mean 7 still happened but 6 was all dream or that both 6 and 7 were a dream?

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Tuesday, June 21, 2005 6:06 PM

SPACECOWGIRL


1.Tara instead of Kennedy
2.SMG doesn't have a cold.
3.Wood dies. He tried to kill Spike so I don't like him!
4.Better, less whiny potentials. Good idea-bad execution.

And that's more than 3 so I'll stop now. By the way I do like Season 7. I like most all of BTVS.

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Tuesday, June 21, 2005 6:06 PM

SPACECOWGIRL


1.Tara instead of Kennedy
2.SMG doesn't have a cold.
3.Wood dies. He tried to kill Spike so I don't like him!
4.Better, less whiny potentials. Good idea-bad execution.

And that's more than 3 so I'll stop now. By the way I do like Season 7. I like most all of BTVS.

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Tuesday, June 21, 2005 11:44 PM

GROUNDED


Quote:
Originally posted by batmarlowe:
Back to Grounded: Did you mean 7 still happened but 6 was all dream or that both 6 and 7 were a dream?


Well the thread was about changing things in S7 so I worked around that. Personally I'd erase all of S6/7, including the good eps - they were good, but not worth the pain of all the others.

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Thursday, June 23, 2005 12:10 PM

BATMARLOWE


I couldn't agree more. There were some good eps in 6 and 7 but IMHO only 3 great ones. OMWF (anybody notice that billboard on THE INSIDE the other night?), "Tabula Rasa" and "Conversations with Dead People". But I felt overall those seasons were just botched--bad ideas badly handled. And like you said--not worth the pain.

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Thursday, June 23, 2005 12:33 PM

GROUNDED


I'm not a huge fan of S5 either, but it had Angel S2 running concurrently to ease the slight pain. Angel S3 did it's best to balance out Buffy S6, but ultimately couldn't cope. Then came the sucker punch combo of Angel S4 and Buffy S7 and it was KO for me :(

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Thursday, June 23, 2005 12:57 PM

FINN MAC CUMHAL


I didn’t watch season 7 and I only saw about two-thirds of season 6. In my opinion, the end of season 5 was the best ending that the series could have had. Season 6 took a powerful and dramatic ending and turned it into an anticlimactic let-down. The whole slayer mythology rested on the notion that slayers ultimately die and are replaced by new slayers. This lent a tragic and ominous provision to the Scoobies’ adventures that the writers milked for all it was worth, but when the time came to pay the piper they reneged. So while there were many episodes in season 6 and possibly season 7 that were certainly good (in fact, despite not fitting into the Buffy atmosphere, Season 6 had some of the best writing) the only thing I would changed about season 7, and by extension season 6, is that they had never been made.

-------------
Qui desiderat pacem praeparet bellum.

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Thursday, June 23, 2005 12:57 PM

SPIKEANDJEZEBEL


More Joss-written episodes, and particularly a Joss "Special" episode. You know the type - each season had one or two - the mind-blowingly different episode that was the best thing about television in it's given year?

Examples: Doppelgangland, Hush, Restless, The Body, Once More with Feeling. Season 7 was sorely lacking on those kind of episodes, with Storyteller and Selfless being the closest, but neither written by Joss.


"I like smackin' 'em!" - Jayne Cobb

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Thursday, June 23, 2005 1:58 PM

BATMARLOWE


Well, we split on this one, Grounded. Season 5 comes in at number 3 for me (after 3 and 2). You wanna do a Season full of pain? Season 5 is how you do it.

I didn't want more pain after season 5, but they went that way, so I had to meet them halfway and accept that and then judge it on it's own merits. Of which it had little. In my opinion. But ironically enough my least favorite season has is arguably the best episode of the show.




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Thursday, June 23, 2005 2:07 PM

BATMARLOWE


Finn, I second your anti-climax. Buffy's death was powerful and moving. And resurrecting her undercut that and piper was left unpaid. I would have rather seen 2 seasons of how the Scoobies try to continue without her than what we got.

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Thursday, June 23, 2005 4:12 PM

SIGMANUNKI


Holy Crap! Finn and I agree on something!!!

----
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Thursday, June 23, 2005 5:52 PM

JUTIN77


posting in this thread earns you a firey coal for a chair in your own special hell...

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Friday, June 24, 2005 1:52 AM

GROUNDED


Quote:
Originally posted by batmarlowe:
Well, we split on this one, Grounded. Season 5 comes in at number 3 for me (after 3 and 2). You wanna do a Season full of pain? Season 5 is how you do it.


I didn't think it was bad as a whole, I just thought there were so many weak episodes wrapped inside an uninspiring arc. There are maybe 7 eps at most that I'd willingly rewatch.

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Saturday, June 25, 2005 6:33 PM

NUMEROCINCUENTAUNO


Sad that (unless I missed it) no one wants to suggest that the #1 change they would have liked to see in Season Seven is that it would be followed by a Season Eight. That in itself might have avoided some problems, like the casting call for Potential stars for the spin-off.

Number 2, I would have liked to see a better villain with a scarier agenda. On the face of it, we are back to where the story began: the last shall be (The) First. It takes a credible opponent to make the heroes heroic.

At times it was a neat idea to allow the First to take the form of all the other Big Bads (all presumably aspects of the First), and spending most of the end in the form of Buffy (we have met the enemy and they are us), but the writers spent so much time on misdirection that it ended up as simply confusing and shapeless. At the end, we find out that their master plan is to build an army to control the world. These beings are the ultimate, undying evil, and the worst you can say about them is that they are Republicans?

(However, Nathan Fillion was easily the scariest minion in the Buffyverse.)

Lastly, there is no doubt that S7 became rather dense in the number of characters sharing the precious 44 minutes a week. For fans, throwing in a scene between Faith and the Mayor resonated immediately, but left less dedicated watchers confused. I think it is a testament to the richness of the Buffyverse that the writers did a pretty good job of keeping the secondary characters alive while focusing on the main relationship (in my mind, Buffy and Spike), but the strain clearly showed. The comments from various people who would like to have seen more of X, Y, or Z simply indicate that there was a lot more story potential in the framework.

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Tuesday, June 28, 2005 2:39 PM

SPACECOWGIRL


Quote:
Sad that (unless I missed it) no one wants to suggest that the #1 change they would have liked to see in Season Seven is that it would be followed by a Season Eight.



Much as I love BTVS I think it was time to wrap it up at Season 7, unlike Angel, Firefly, & even Joan of Arcadia--all of which had a lot more story to tell but were cancelled prematurely.
Sometimes flawed, mostly brilliant, BTVS is probably my all time favorite show & I'm so thankful that DVDs exist.

I aim to misbehave.

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Tuesday, June 28, 2005 2:39 PM

SPACECOWGIRL


Quote:
Sad that (unless I missed it) no one wants to suggest that the #1 change they would have liked to see in Season Seven is that it would be followed by a Season Eight.



Much as I love BTVS I think it was time to wrap it up at Season 7, unlike Angel, Firefly, & even Joan of Arcadia--all of which had a lot more story to tell but were cancelled prematurely.
Sometimes flawed, mostly brilliant, BTVS is probably my all time favorite show & I'm so thankful that DVDs exist.

I aim to misbehave.

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Tuesday, June 28, 2005 3:11 PM

BOBTAYLOR


1. Eliminate the first third of the potentials.
2. Eliminate the second third of the potentials.
3. Eliminate the third third of the potentials.

They were a concept that just never worked until the series finale. And thematically making sense for one hour does not justify 20-odd episodes of general uncomfortableness over the lack of screen time for characters we love.

-----------------------
www.robert-b-taylor.com
www.robert-b-taylor.blogspot.com

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Tuesday, June 28, 2005 6:07 PM

OPPYH


Quote:
Originally posted by NumeroCincuentaUno:
The comments from various people who would like to have seen more of X, Y, or Z simply indicate that there was a lot more story potential in the framework.


Exactly right. Buffy the Vampire Slayer was an amazing show. I didn't hate season 7 at all, but when you care about something to this degree you start thinking of ways it could have been perfect. If it was everyone's idea of perfect, I guess that would be sort of scary.

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Wednesday, June 29, 2005 12:00 AM

VLAD


Quote:
Originally posted by GWEK:
1) A little less talk, a little more action, please. There was a lot of pretty speechifying about how it's time to fight to the bitter end blah blah blah, which was often followed up with MORE talk rather than actually fighting.

2) No Angel in the finale. He's shoehorned in there and they could've come up with another bridge to get Spike onto the other show. I think the pacing of the season would've been better served by Angel coming in earlier, to help fight the uber-vamp.

3) No Caleb. As I understand it, Caleb was an add-on part written for Nathan Fillion after "Firefly" was cancelled. My impression is that, without the introduction of Caleb, Wood might've become the First's "hand", which I think would've been a more interesting arc. Don't get me wrong, it was fun to see Fillion all morbid and creepifying, but I thought Wood was a character with great potential who was largely wasted in the third act of the season.

Honorable mention: Better death scene for Anya. I thought they did the best they could with the time alloted, but she was such an important character throughout the series that I thought she deserved a little more attention.


As an aside, I am, apparently, the only Buffy fan who liked Kennedy.


That makes two of us. *laugh* Think of it more as an exclusive club. A VERY exclusive club.

Vlad

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Wednesday, June 29, 2005 4:49 AM

GWEK


I agree and actually liked season 7 a lot, although I have to admit I enjoyed it much more when I watched it over the course of a week on DVD rather than over the course of a a season on TV. But that's the way all Whedon-TV should be watched (essentially as a 15-20 hour movie).

I put seasons 6 and 7 up near the top (although 2 is my favorite), with 4 at the definite bottom. If we were talking about changes for a season, I think I'd need more than 3 slots for season 4...

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Wednesday, June 29, 2005 5:03 AM

ZOOT


Quote:
Originally posted by GWEK:
I agree and actually liked season 7 a lot, although I have to admit I enjoyed it much more when I watched it over the course of a week on DVD rather than over the course of a a season on TV. But that's the way all Whedon-TV should be watched (essentially as a 15-20 hour movie).

I put seasons 6 and 7 up near the top (although 2 is my favorite), with 4 at the definite bottom. If we were talking about changes for a season, I think I'd need more than 3 slots for season 4...


That's so weird! Have read loads of different sites and everyone hates Buffy season 4 - but bizarrely I think that’s my favourite! I just can’t understand why people hated it!!! Season 5 is a low, low point for me …..

Come on now guys, someone else out there must like season 4 too – I mean we are talking such episodes as Fear Itself, Laving Conditions, A New Man and Pangs – not to mention the superlative episodes: Something Blue, Hush and Superstar … but maybe its just me …. Perhaps I should start a new thread – “Why I like Buffy Season 4 and am just so gorram weird”!!


***************************************

Okay, I'm lost, I'm angry, and I'm
armed.

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Wednesday, June 29, 2005 6:05 AM

GWEK


I agree that season 4 has some great episodes, but I think it has one of the weakest overall story arcs. I thought there was a lot of potential and a lot of good ideas, but, for me, it didn't gel as much as many of the other seasons.

Plus, I think Adam (although a great concept), looks silly. :)

I know where you're coming from, though, since I feel like I'm in the minority for liking season 6.


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Wednesday, June 29, 2005 6:56 AM

GROUNDED


The overall arc of S4 is pretty dire, but there are so many standout eps to compensate. Even the lesser eps usually have classic moments - Doomed for example has the hilarious Spike attempted suicide scene.

"See you in Hell, Dru."

Genius.

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Wednesday, June 29, 2005 7:08 AM

SPIKEANDJEZEBEL


I love season 4. In fact, I am of the (minority) opinion that Buffy shares the even-numbered rule with the Star Trek movies - the even numbered seasons are the best. My favorites are seasons 2, 4, and 6, though not necessarily in that order.

"I have never understood why it should be necessary to become irrational in order to prove that you care. Or indeed, why it should be necessary to prove it at all." -Kerr Avon

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Wednesday, June 29, 2005 7:12 AM

GWEK


Definitely with you on 2 and 6. As for 4, it could just be that I always hated Riley. Wait, that can't be it because I hated Angel, too. Hm.

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Wednesday, June 29, 2005 8:15 AM

BATMARLOWE


I like season 4 too!. The arc is definitely the weakest (of seasons 1-5) but the stand-alones are great. I'm not an anti-Riley person, either. I enjoyed watching their relationship develop.

I've always been a strong supporter of season 5 too. But I'm re-watching S5 these days, and I must admit I'm having my doubts. And "The Body" is next. It's a great ep but it's one I have to psyche myself up for. Just take deep breath and get ready.

I'm also in the I Don't Hate Kennedy Club. I didn't want to see Tara go and I felt Joss was turning the knife by having her murdered. But Kennedy as a character was fine. A bit of pain in the neck at times but...

So I like Riley, pretty much like Kennedy, and I really like Season 4. I think I'm the only member of this club.

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Wednesday, June 29, 2005 2:55 PM

BLINKER


Everyone else has hit the pacing and character focus points, so I'll go in for some lesser changes:

1. Better follow-through. Giles and Anya spend half an episode learning that the First's emergence was made possible by a weakness in the Slayer line, but as far as we know, they never tell anyone and the hard-won knowledge never comes to anything. Similarly, we're never let in on the truth of Dawn's visitations. Was it the First, and if so, how did it wreak all that physical havoc? Was Buffy sending Dawn away supposed to be the betrayal Joyce warned of? In both these cases, and others, the pay-off fizzles.

2. The First's identities. At the beginning of the season, a friend of mine enthused that the First's shape-changing ability could allow anyone in history to be written in, for purposes of humour or metaphor. The Scoobies could be harangued by Shakespeare, or Richard Nixon, or Dorothy Parker, or... heck, you fill in the blank. Instead, the First stuck to impersonating past "Buffy" characters.

3. Anya. She used to be the brightest, funniest thing going, and yet this season she becomes absolutely painful to watch. She mopes, she snaps, she exudes ennui like a Calvin Klein model on depressants. Aside from the excellent "Selfless" (in which Anya is, if anything, even more miserable), she's just a drag. Joss forsook the chance to stufy an ongoing marriage on the show for this?

Quote:
Perhaps The First could have spent the first part of the season as incorporeal, but then gathered enough energy to become solid (Perhaps by using a "vessel" like The Master did in Season 1, and using the energy sucked out of potential slayers to become solid, becoming an UberCaleb).


That's really where I thought they were going with the First. There was a scene where someone says that it can't be harmed, and Willow or Giles starts to speak up as though there might be a way around that. And then, of course, there's the bit where the First longs to be made flesh so that it could put its hands around the necks of its victims. But instead, the potentials implausibly defeat several dozen of the million Ubervamps, Spike conveniently deus ex amulets the rest, and the First slinks off stage left in the aftermath.

_________
Sliders: Gate Haven - http://slidersweb.net/blinker

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Saturday, July 2, 2005 9:35 PM

AIRYLLI


1.) no potentials. zero. well, i guess they were plot-important. ok, make them like the reavers in "bushwacked": there, but you can't see 'em.

2.) real giles and more of him. he was almost character assassinated...saved only by the fact that ASH is amazing.

3.) focus on core slayerettes like they did in the old days..as much as i love spike, i didn't like the "Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Spike the Vampire Wonder" that was season 7.

runner-up: make the first/ubervamps less...lame. brilliant concept, mediocre execution. an actually evil buffy would've been really awesome to see. and if i'd wanted uruk-hai, i'd would've put in LotR.

hey, or we could prevent some of this by putting joss in charge of season 6 instead of marti..more story and less soft-core porn..ahem.

----
I swallowed a bug.

www.cafepress.com/airylli

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Saturday, July 9, 2005 7:10 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:
Originally posted by Grounded:
I'm not a huge fan of S5 either

Curious, Grounded...do you think S4 is a lot or just a little better than S5?
I'm on the third ep of S4, and so far I like it.
Xander is crackin' me up, poor vagabond.

So many shows, so little time Chrisisall

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Saturday, July 9, 2005 10:06 AM

GROUNDED


Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by Grounded:
I'm not a huge fan of S5 either

Curious, Grounded...do you think S4 is a lot or just a little better than S5?
I'm on the third ep of S4, and so far I like it.


Some background: I started watching Buffy on BBC2. I got digital TV not long before S6 was due to start on Sky One (way ahead of BBC2 which hadn't even started S5) so my brother and I split the cost of the Buffy S5 and Angel S2 VHS sets so we could blitz through them in time for the new season. There followed a week or so of intensive viewing, switching back and forth between the two so as to preserve perfect viewing continuity. This served to make Buffy S5 seem stronger because a) the poorer eps were easier to forget in the crush and b) each episode of Buffy watched meant we could watch another Angel (which we both thought was much better).

On reflection, Buffy S5 has about 2 truly good episodes and a few okay ones IMO (I won't go into which ones for fear of spoiling you). In other words, with 3 or 4 times as many classic episodes and far fewer weak ones, S4 blows it out of the water. There's not much more I can say really, without spoiling - I look forward to an in depth analysis thread when you've worked through all of S4 and S5 ;)

By the way, if you liked the first three eps you're probably going to like the rest even more - the 1st three are some of the year's weakest.

Edit: "Buffy, I've gone through some fairly dark times in my life. Faced some scary things, among them the kitchen at the fabulous Ladies Night club. Let me tell ya' something: When it's dark, and I'm all alone, and I'm scared, or freaked out or whatever, I always think, 'What would Buffy do?' You're my hero. Ok, sometimes when it's dark and I'm all alone, I think, 'What is Buffy wearing?'..."

"And nothing says thank you like dollars in the waistband."

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Sunday, July 10, 2005 5:11 AM

CHRISISALL


I hate to say this, but Beer Bad wasn't so bad. If you take it like, say The Apple in Star Trek...

Chrisisall

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Sunday, July 10, 2005 5:25 AM

GROUNDED


"There will be no Thomas Aquinas at this table"

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