The toughest call: best SINGLE Buffy episode in human history.... by chrisisall

I have Three:

Prophecy Girl
Becoming I/II
Passion

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Sunday, September 18, 2005 4:57 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jacqui:

"I owe you PAIN!".

And she did the 'beams' from her hands like the Emperor did in Jedi; cool!

Luke, watch out for the 'beams' Chrisisall

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Sunday, September 18, 2005 5:20 AM

It's hard to remember that the names of Glory's demons. She rarely uses them. She usually calls them something like "worthless festering pustule".

Why is Buffy a dumbass?

I just did a fast scan through the episode and must have missed the scene with Giles and the Glorydemon. What's going on there?

This is nitpicky but something I always wondered about. I can accept that Tara is partially mind-sucked, but it seems to me that Glory didn't have her fingers in Tara's head any less long than those who ended up completely mindless and strapped down in Sunnydale Hospital.

Like I said--no biggie, just an observation.

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Sunday, September 18, 2005 5:29 AM

Well, lessee, Chris..."Spiral", "The Weight of the World", and "The Gift". But like you said if you can get through "The Body" you can get through anything. Keep us posted.

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Sunday, September 18, 2005 6:31 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by GwenHarker:

Prophecy Girl
Becoming I/II
Passion

I'm guessing you're not a season 6/7 person....

Good old days Chrisisall

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Sunday, September 18, 2005 6:34 AM

Season 6 was a good Character development season but I just didn't enjoy it (depressed me too much) and Season 7.. well it could've been handled a bit better IMO.

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Sunday, September 18, 2005 6:52 AM

Dark I can deal with, but depressing...sort of ...depresses me.
Do you own them?
Should I?

Bracing for Season 5 finale Chrisisall

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Sunday, September 18, 2005 6:54 AM

BECSTHEBEAST

ok coming in here late (that little thing called life has got in my way recently)

the most inventive two episodes are hush and once more with feeling - and both because they cope with the fact that not all communication is talking - although of course we all love the scripts of the whedonverse 'cos of the dialolgue, a lot of it is whats behind the dialogue. When someone gets the chance to both write and direct (and be damned good at both) this is what you get - reading the script for hush is really interesting as you see all the little nuances written in

but my favourite episode is dopplegangland 'cos its the first i saw - well half saw while i was waiting for someone in a house that had tv with extra channels - and then they started selling those video box sets two for one and there you have it - a house of three women in their mid-twenties becoming very quickly obsessed

i have never seen an episode of tv like the body -the scene where willow is trying to chose which top is most appropriate to wear really moved me 'cos i felt like it was saying we've never know what the 'right thing' to do in situations like these

hmm - i think hang the cinema now - a night in watching old buffy episodes thats all i wanna do now

smile pretty and watch your back

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Sunday, September 18, 2005 6:58 AM

Yeah, I have no problems with Dark stuff but my anti-depressants can only help so much.

Quote:
Do you own them?
Should I?

Huh?

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Sunday, September 18, 2005 7:11 AM

I mean do you own seasons 6 and 7 on dvd, or *shakes off the horror of it* tape?

Chrisisadvdnut

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Sunday, September 18, 2005 7:15 AM

Oh! No, I don't own them. If you want to own all the seasons, then by all means, buy them, but I just don't see many season 6 episodes that I would really want to watch over again, I do, however, own 1 - 3 becuase I find that I'm more inclined to rewatch them.

With the exceptions of such great episodes as The Body, Hush, Checkpoint and the Gift (and other great season four episodes like Restless), The first three seasons were Buffy at it's best. Again, all IMO.

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Sunday, September 18, 2005 7:29 AM

I agree that 1-3 were when Joss was at his most concentrated during the series.The end of 2 and whole of 3 getting my vote for excellence.

Chrisisall

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Sunday, September 18, 2005 11:58 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by batmarlowe:
It's hard to remember that the names of Glory's demons. She rarely uses them. She usually calls them something like "worthless festering pustule".

Why is Buffy a dumbass?

I just did a fast scan through the episode and must have missed the scene with Giles and the Glorydemon. What's going on there?

This is nitpicky but something I always wondered about. I can accept that Tara is partially mind-sucked, but it seems to me that Glory didn't have her fingers in Tara's head any less long than those who ended up completely mindless and strapped down in Sunnydale Hospital.

Like I said--no biggie, just an observation.

1. Quick scan of the guides... Jinx, Dreg, Murk, Slook, Gronx. That's what I've come up with. Jinx and Dreg are called by name quite often.

2. It really doesn't take a genius to figure out that while Willow is playing all meek and mild, she's really planning to go after Glory by herself. She was all hyped up and, then, what... one or two words by Buffy and she was going to just sit back with her tail between her legs? Gah. Buffy used to be a little bit clued in with her friends.

3. While the Glory demons are following the scoobies, Giles is in the Magic Box with Anya and Willow. He finds one of the demons and it's all "I'm not telling you anything, you can't make me". And, cool as anything, Giles asks the girls to get rope, they turn around and there's a high pitched scream... they turn back and the demon is all "Oh, I'll tell you anything you want, just stop it, stop iiiiiiiiit" and Giles is all Ripper calm and cool.

It's nifty. I love Ripper Giles.

4. From what I recall, they wanted to keep Tara in the hospital longer, but by this point the mental ward was so overcrowded that they were at crisis point and had to send a lot of people home, especially those with family who could care for them. Ben was telling Buffy this in... oh... um... 'listening to fear'? (which, you know, sounds really negligent to me, why didn't they transport them to a different hospital?). Tara obviously had a support system and people to care for her.

Chrisisall is not the only one able to fanwank for Joss. Buffy/Angel... you got a nitpick... bring it on.

*~*~*
"Your toes are in the sand."
"And your head's up your..."
"Hey!"

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Sunday, September 18, 2005 12:01 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
I agree that 1-3 were when Joss was at his most concentrated during the series.The end of 2 and whole of 3 getting my vote for excellence.

A man after my own heart. Really.

There were some great episodes in the other seasons, but these are the classic ones. Absolutely. Everything just tied in brilliantly, very few loose threads.

*~*~*
"Your toes are in the sand."
"And your head's up your..."
"Hey!"

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Sunday, September 18, 2005 12:20 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jacqui:

Chrisisall is not the only one able to fanwank for Joss. Buffy/Angel... you got a nitpick... bring it on.

How come Kendra didn't get a recall when Buffy's heart started again, she wasn't 'dead' that long....
*he pats himself on the back for a hard one*

Fanwank away, friend Chrisisall

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Sunday, September 18, 2005 12:31 PM

RUXTON

For some reason, reruns of Buffy just yesterday came back to the limited channels I pay for. I watched, of course. This was the Thanksgiving episode when the Chumash indians came back to wreak vengeance, Spike was tied up (begging for brandy and blood), and Angel hid in the wings.

I hadn't watched any Buffy episodes in several years. I was struck with how totally engaging the show was, how intricate, how rich, how full of every emotion from joy to sorrow, the interplay of all the splendid actors, the lack of predictable fillers, the whole enchilada.

NOTHING on first-run TV today even comes close to this wonder of entertainment. Yesterday's experience made me painfully aware of how we so easily sacrifice our standards when nothing better is out there.

I tried to think of any shows that even come close, and found two. Gilmore Girls, for its rapid-fire delivery of clever conversation and intricate cross-plots; and reruns of She Spies (first year), which also had fast and witty interplay wrapped around almost unpredictable action.

Man, do I miss Joss' TV!

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Sunday, September 18, 2005 12:42 PM

Jesus. You don't hold back, do ye?

Jumping right in with a hard one, aren't you?

I think the main issue here is... they're girls, not items you can launch a factory recall on.

"Here's some awesome power! Go play, little girl and have a nice, EARLY AND BRUTAL death while you're at it... Oh, wait, come here so we can extract it again. Our mistake, we don't really need you."

The whole slayer essence thing is sketchy throughout the series, from day one. It's never fully explained what the process is, how it's gotten and passed on or what not. Without spoiling your for s7, I can't really go in to where it comes from, either.

My theory is this: when Buffy died in 'Prophecy Girl' (and she was out longer than a few seconds, she was lying in that pool for a while before Xander and Angel found her), her heart had stopped, so it was a technical 'death' in the sense that it fulfilled the prophecy regarding her and the Master, so it stands to reason it would be a 'death' enough to fulfil the necessary obligations to call a new slayer.

A slayer's strength isn't just something handed to them on a platter. It's not as if it could be handed to anyone (again, so many s7 elements come into this argument, it pales without it, but what can I do?). There are specific girls out there, Kendra, Buffy and Faith just happen to be some of those girls. The actual 'slayerness' is passed on to them, but it's more of an awakening to powers they already have.

So that, although the 'slayerness' was passed to Kendra, when Buffy is resurrected she retains her 'strengths' as they are, because they're already part of her.

Joss has said, in many interviews, that the true slayer line passed on to Kendra and then Faith, it does not lie with Buffy at all (again, you'll get the full ramifications of this and why it's so important in later seasons).

Does that at least *begin* to answer your question?

*~*~*
"Your toes are in the sand."
"And your head's up your..."
"Hey!"

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Sunday, September 18, 2005 12:50 PM

Actually, based on past peformance, I knew that you could do it, and you did. Thanks.

The Council has ordered a recall of all slayers minted 1998-99.....Chrisisall

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Sunday, September 18, 2005 1:00 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
The Council has ordered a recall of all slayers minted 1998-99.....Chrisisall

Tee hee hee.

*~*~*
"Your toes are in the sand."
"And your head's up your..."
"Hey!"

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Sunday, September 18, 2005 1:25 PM

1. Yeah, Jinx and Dreg. Those do ring a bell.

2. I'll have to watch Buffy's "dumbass" scene.

3. I FF'd through it again but at a slower speed and caught it. I too, love seeing Giles in Ripper mode. I don't know how consistent this is...but it seems to me whenever he goes into Ripper mode he pulls out his hanky and wipes his hands instead of or in addition to his glasses. Sometimes the glasses come off too.

4. Still seems to me Tara isn't as "far gone" as Glory's other victims. She seems a little bit lucid, whereas the others are completely off their respective nuts.

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Sunday, September 18, 2005 1:48 PM

Chris, is your Kendra question about when Buffy died at the end of "Prophesy Girl"? If so I am confused (even though Jacqui already answered your question--not that Jacqui's answer confused me).

Also, just wanted throw in my fourthing of the declaration that 2 and 3 are the best seasons.

Season 6? I strongly advise no more Season 6 talk until after you've seen "The Gift" and give us your reaction.

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Monday, September 19, 2005 12:56 AM

EMMA

Ok, for the primary reason that 'Bored now' has become a phrase in near daily usage in my vocabulary and is a yardstick for spotting Buffy-fans: The Wish

I know, such frivolity compared to the heavy-ness of everyone else but sometimes I just wanna have fun.

extremely dimensionally transcendental

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Monday, September 19, 2005 5:15 AM

"The Wish" is a great episode. But since there are so many great episodes from Season 3 I have trouble singling one out to as a contender for single best episode, because it's like, "Fool for Love" or maybe "Once More with Feeling", or um...something from Season 3.

I've often wondered what it would be like to live in The Netherlands. Is The Netherlands synonomous with Holland or is one part of the other? I've never quote gotten it straight on that. People seem to differentiate as to whether or not they live in Holland or The Netherlands.

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Monday, September 19, 2005 6:01 AM

EMMA

The Netherlands is the name of the whole country, Holland is a region. The two are used interchangeably but most people though - including the Dutch, well except for a few very proud of their region who don't want to be labelled anything else.

It is a good place to live, very easy, but it is a bit puritanical (yes really) and bureaucratic at times. It is also one of the most racist places I have ever been to (now I am in trouble). For me as a white middle class person trying to learn their language it is great though - by and large friendly people and a beautiful country in its own right.

extremely dimensionally transcendental

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Monday, September 19, 2005 6:35 AM

Puritanical!? But, but...Amsterdam! They have Amsterdam! And racist? I'm surprised to hear that too.

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Monday, September 19, 2005 7:21 AM

EMMA

I have Pm'd you, this is too off topic even for me...

Buffy, Season 3...very cool but I am a sucker for Season 6 (yes, really, someone has to be).

extremely dimensionally transcendental

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Monday, September 19, 2005 8:20 AM

CAPTAINCDC

Once More With Feeling is the best.

Followed by The Body, Hush and Restless.

---------------------------------------

The only sovereign you can allow to rule you is reason!

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Monday, September 19, 2005 8:58 AM

PACER234

This is my first post here, but have been a Joss Whedon fan from the very beginning so hopefully I'll feel at home here.

I feel like it's too impossible to narrow down a series of 7 incredibly different and unique seasons into one BEST episode ever. But I think everyone did a good job of pointing out the best ones, probably "Hush", "The Body" and "Once More With Feeling". All three proved, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that BTVS was the most original and unique show on TV at the time and quite possibly ever.

BUT, my favorite episode is "Something Blue". So hilarious on so many counts, while still progressing the story in some interesting ways.

Anyway, that's my two cents.

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Monday, September 19, 2005 9:07 AM

Roger that! "Something Blue" also gets my vote for funniest episode.

Oh yeah, and welcome aboard!

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Monday, September 19, 2005 9:47 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by batmarlowe:

Also, just wanted throw in my fourthing of the declaration that 2 and 3 are the best seasons.

Quick S5 overview:
Glory had the power of Godling, she came off to me as no true 'God'. I loved her characterization, though!
Buff vs. Drac was entertaining, if a little dorkey; the final fight was shiny.
Dawn was annoying.
Willow was awsome.
Xander has grown, and still has the funny.
The Body slayed me (in the tear-filled sense).
Anya is a real person to me now.
Spiral had supreme combat!
The Gift...really good, but I didn't groove to it.
After The Body, I was in no mood for a death written in merely to yank out what was left of my heart. I know she comes back, and then retires, cool, end of story for me.

I officially label myself a season 1-3 person (with an appreciation for 4).

And a "YIKES" aside, I already sold S5 to get 'Best of Spike', Fool For Love is an all time high for me!! And I got a couple of bucks left over...

End of my path Chrisisall

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Monday, September 19, 2005 10:44 AM

Pretty much agree with everything you said, except: I don't find Dawn annoying. For the most part, I thought Buffy was too hard on her.

"The Gift" really blew me away. When it first aired, I knew there was gonna be a Season 6 and that it was gonna be on UPN. But I didn't know that Buffy was going to die.

But when Buffy realizes what the true meaning of "death is your gift" is...all I can remember is leaping off my couch and saying something along the lines of "Oh my God! No!"
And sat there both reeling and stunned as I heard her last words to Dawn and watched her die.

And I also thought it was perfect. And I congratulated Joss for making it such a powerful moment that was powerful not only because of what happened but the way Buffy's death made all the pieces of Season 5 come together.

And even though I knew she'd be back, it didn't lessen the impact of the ending of "The Gift". And I congratulated Joss on that too. I think it's at least one of the top 10 episodes.

She saved the world. A lot.

Season 6? As many of us have suggested (including me) you go to ANGEL Season 2 instead of BUFFY 6. Obviously, that's up to you.

You've already heard a lot of opinions about Season 6--get ready to hear more. It's the season over which most Buffyites clash.

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Monday, September 19, 2005 10:58 AM

Originally posted by batmarlowe:

She saved the world. A lot.

That almost got me....Chrisisall*snif*

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Monday, September 19, 2005 11:09 AM

SPIKEANDJEZEBEL

My knee-jerk instinct was to just say OMWF, as it is my personal favorite. (It inspired me to take up guitar, which I have now been playing for 4 years and can play all the songs from OMWF and the FF theme!)

...BUT, there are just so many good ones, that I decided to make a list of the best from each season.

...THEN, I realized I couldn't pick just one favorite from each year, so I whittled it down to two a season:

S1: Welcome to the Hellmouth and Prophecy Girl
S2: Surprise and Becoming (part 2)
S3: Doppelgangland and Earshot
S4: Hush and New Moon Rising
S5: Fool For Love and The Body
S6: OMWF and Villains
S7: Conversations with Dead People and Storyteller

Very-Honorable mentions: Bewitched, Bothered, and Bewildered; Passion; The Wish; Graduation Day; Something Blue; Who Are You?; The Yoko Factor; Restless; Crush; The Gift; Bargaining; Entropy; Two to Go/Grave; Selfless; Chosen.

I hope that narrows it down a bit...!

"I have never understood why it should be necessary to become irrational in order to prove that you care. Or indeed, why it should be necessary to prove it at all." -Kerr Avon

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Monday, September 19, 2005 11:12 AM

SPIKEANDJEZEBEL

D'OH - I forgot The Zeppo and The Initiative!

"I have never understood why it should be necessary to become irrational in order to prove that you care. Or indeed, why it should be necessary to prove it at all." -Kerr Avon

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Monday, September 19, 2005 11:16 AM

Originally written by Joss Whedon:

She saved the world. A lot.

It GOT me.

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Monday, September 19, 2005 11:36 AM

I guess I shoulda put some time in between The Body and The Gift....

More than two days, anyhow Chrisisall

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Tuesday, September 20, 2005 6:34 AM

Emma,

I hate to interrupt this thread but it was the only way could thing of to contact you.

I clicked on "If you want to respond to Emma..." but all I got was your profile, which has no contact information. Yet you contacted me and there's nothing on my user profile at all.

You said "I Pm'd you". I guess I don't know what that means. Can you Pm me again to tell me how to Pm you?

Others on this thread: I apologize for the intrusion.

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Tuesday, September 20, 2005 7:10 AM

GROUNDED

Sorry BM, we can never forgive you...

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Tuesday, September 20, 2005 7:20 AM

KURAI

I personally feel the best episode will always be Becoming Part 2.

The last ten minutes...I simply remeber crying on the top of my bunk bed, because I was so young back then, hugging my stuffed animals close, crying my eyes out because of Angel passing. I was actually convinced at the time he was going to stay dead.

And my mean parents laughing at me in the living room. Jerks.

Then ofcourse, I'm a fan of the Hush, The Body and OMWF for filming and story aspects.

But Becoming Part 2 will always be my favorite.

And I'm very partial to...

Wild at Heart
Innocence
I only have Eyes for You
And pretty much all of season 3.

But again...Becoming Part 2.

"Close your eyes."

*melts into a puddle*

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Tuesday, September 20, 2005 10:14 AM

Another season 2/3 person, there are quite a few of us, I guess.

I miss Miss Calender Chrisisall

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Tuesday, September 20, 2005 6:07 PM

KURAI

Seasons 2 and 3 were the best, thats why ;)

You should see my copy of season 2...all battered up and worn out. Looks terrible compaired to the rest of my sets. Like season 7 is all pretty and shiny...but thats because no one watches it in my house.

I pull it out to watch Lies my Parents told me...on occasion. But other then that, it collects dust.

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Tuesday, September 20, 2005 10:31 PM

GROUNDED

I saw some of S7 on TV by chance yesterday. God it was awful... ;)

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Wednesday, September 21, 2005 4:53 AM

KURAI

*giggles*

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Wednesday, September 21, 2005 5:39 AM

OPPYH

The Body. Yup, That's the one.

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Friday, September 23, 2005 2:59 PM

LOVOK

People are way too harsh on S7. Yes, it was one of the weaker seasons, but it is by no means *terrible*. I personally think S1 and S4 are both worse than S7. There's a lot of good stuff in there like Selfless, CWDP, Storyteller, Lies My Parents Told Me, and Chosen. Some more episodes I really liked include Lessons, Him, Dirty Girls, and Touched. Yes the writing and continuity was *beginning* to slip, but overall I still find a lot to love about S7. It's still 10 times better than anything else on TV.

Here's my Top 15 Buffy Episodes list:

1. 2x21 & 2x22 - Becoming
2. 6x07 - Once More, With Feeling
3. 2x17 - Passion
4. 2x14 - Innocence
5. 4x22 - Restless
6. 5x17 - The Body
7. 5x22 - The Gift
8. 4x10 - Hush
9. 3x21 & 3x22 - Graduation Day
10. 5x07 - Fool For Love
11. 7x05 - Selfless
12. 6x13 - Dead Things
13. 7x07 - Conversations With Dead People
14. 7x17 - Lies My Parents Told Me
15. 7x22 - Chosen
*Edit: I swapped Hush and The Body

Runner-ups:
3x08 - Lover’s Walk
3x09 - The Wish
3x18 - Earshot
6x03 - After Life
6x19, 6x20, 6x21, and 6x22 - Seeing Red, Villains, Two to Go, and Grave
7x16 - Storyteller

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Friday, September 23, 2005 4:06 PM