Considering her relationship with Oz (and Xander), is Willow really 'gay'? by chrisisall

BUFFYVERSE

Considering her relationship with Oz (and Xander), is Willow really 'gay'?

POSTED BY: CHRISISALL
UPDATED: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 13:52
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Wednesday, May 23, 2007 8:29 AM

Willow seemed to really love Oz...in light of this, wouldn't Willow be considered a woman who loves people, regardless of their sex? Bi at most, but not a lesbian in the strictest sense?

Just curious as to peeps views of this...

Lesbian in a man's body Chrisisall

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Wednesday, May 23, 2007 9:09 AM

LAMBYTOES

I think she's just Bi. She still likes Xander, even when's she's going out with Oz, and I actually haven't seen the season with Tara, but my friends told me, even though I'd already guessed about their relationship when people talked about Tara and Willow. I'm pretty sure she'd still like him then. She's not a lesbian, just bi.

At least, that's my opinion.

-------------------------
You're pretty much down to ritual suicide, Lambie toes.

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Wednesday, May 23, 2007 9:13 AM

KELKHIL

See I don't like any of the labels they use so I normally just ignore them.

I had a friend in HS who dated whomever she chose and sex did not make a difference. She had boyfriends and girlfriends. I never concidered her as Bi or a lesbian, she was just Joey (name made up to protect identity (not that she is a member here or anything)). She was my friend and that is all that mattered. These labels annoy me.

But to answer your question, I never labeled Willow. She just loved whomever she loved and that is all.

Kelkhil

The Shirtless Forsaken

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Wednesday, May 23, 2007 9:23 AM

RUGBUG

Part of the problem for me is that I never 'felt' the relationship between Willow and Tara. It never resonanted...and that is probably my own issue because I hear tell that was many people's favorite of the show.

I also didn't like the whole 'Oz left so Willow became gay.' They alluded to a possible preference like one other time? Not enough, IMO. And even then, she was still into Vamp Xander (but who wouldn't be? hubba hubba). To make Willow gay more real for me, the Oz relationship would've been a little flat, like it was missing something. Instead, it was an amazing relationship...

***************
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw

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Wednesday, May 23, 2007 10:10 AM

DAVESHAYNE

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Willow seemed to really love Oz...

I'm sure she really did love Oz. He was a nice guy with an intelect to match hers, a guitar, and a van. Wouldn't stop her from being gay. It is possible to love somebody you aren't sexually atracted to and vice versa. Add in the societal expectation of heterosexuality and I can totally see Willow trying very hard to be a perfectly normal not at all gay girl before finally admiting to herself where her true urgings lay. Or she could be bi.

David

"Not completely as well as the series of Firefly..." - From a review of Serenity at amazon.de

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Wednesday, May 23, 2007 10:17 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by daveshayne:
It is possible to love somebody you aren't sexually atracted to and vice versa.

She was HOT for him, and I don't mean in that need for air-conditioning kind of way.

If you'll remember Chrisisall

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Wednesday, May 23, 2007 10:30 AM

DAVESHAYNE

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by daveshayne:
It is possible to love somebody you aren't sexually atracted to and vice versa.
She was HOT for him, and I don't mean in that need for air-conditioning kind of way.

Well she said she was hot for him. She might have been wishing she were hot for him (or indeed any male) since everbody would expect she should be. As I understand it that's not at all uncommon considering the tales of closeted gays trying to grit their way through some appearance of a heterosexual lifestyle.

David

"Not completely as well as the series of Firefly..." - From a review of Serenity at amazon.de

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Wednesday, May 23, 2007 10:39 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by daveshayne:

Well she said she was hot for him.

You can't know she wasn't puddlin' for him-!

Quote:
As I understand it that's not at all uncommon considering the tales of closeted gays trying to grit their way through some appearance of a heterosexual lifestyle.

Dave, dude, watch the eps again...she was hot for Xander, then hot for Oz, then hot for Tara, and then hot for Kennedy. She's an equal-opportunity hottie! The only 'grit' was for Warren.

Use your eyes Chrisisall

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Wednesday, May 23, 2007 10:42 AM

RUGBUG

Quote:
Originally posted by daveshayne:
Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by daveshayne:
It is possible to love somebody you aren't sexually atracted to and vice versa.
She was HOT for him, and I don't mean in that need for air-conditioning kind of way.

Well she said she was hot for him. She might have been wishing she were hot for him (or indeed any male) since everbody would expect she should be. As I understand it that's not at all uncommon considering the tales of closeted gays trying to grit their way through some appearance of a heterosexual lifestyle.

Except that she was regularly into being with him. First time out she couldn't wait for more. There was no gritting her way through some appearnce of heterosexual lifestyle.

And as Vamp Willow, she might have been a little into Willow...but she was really into Vamp Xander.

IMO, Willow wasn't written as a gay character at first. It wasn't until Seth Green was going to be leaving that they decided to write her as gay. They took advantage of a funny line from an earlier episode and voila! Gay!Willow.

***************
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw

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Wednesday, May 23, 2007 10:58 AM

DAVESHAYNE

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
You can't know she wasn't puddlin' for him-!

And you can't know she was. Either answer explains all of the known facts so either answer is plausible.

David

"Not completely as well as the series of Firefly..." - From a review of Serenity at amazon.de

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Wednesday, May 23, 2007 11:06 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by daveshayne:
Either answer explains all of the known facts so either answer is plausible.

Only one answer explains the lust in her eyes, though.

Chrisisall

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Thursday, May 24, 2007 4:30 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Had Tara not been a lesbian, I doubt Willow ever would have swung that way. She never let on the least bit with Buffy, not that we ever saw. I didn't care for her being called a 'lesbian', because I never thought she was. I don't doubt she loved Tara deeply, and their relationship was for real, but deep down, Willow's heart always belonged to Xander. Everyone knows that.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Thursday, May 24, 2007 6:14 PM

ELDUSTO

I always got the hint that she loved a person's soul then their gender. I forgot what gave me this impression, but I'm sure it's something Willow said.

http://www.geocities.com/neo_ultimate_d - The Homepage
http://www.myspace.com/eldusto - The Myspace Page

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Friday, May 25, 2007 2:56 AM

EVILDINOSAUR

yea, definitely bi

"Haha, mine is an evil laugh."

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Friday, May 25, 2007 3:20 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
deep down, Willow's heart always belonged to Xander. Everyone knows that.

I think she loves Xander like in that little-girl crush way, as someone stated above.
And as far as labels go, only one fits her IMO: "Willow".

Chrisisall

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Friday, May 25, 2007 9:22 AM

CHARLIETHEBLOODY

"I'm not a ... group. I'm me, willow-group"

this thread's going different than the other one...

--------------------------------------
"I'm an artist, with an e and a beret."

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Friday, May 25, 2007 9:24 AM

KELKHIL

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:

Only one answer explains the lust in her eyes, though.

Um.. acting????

Kelkhil

The Shirtless Forsaken

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Friday, May 25, 2007 10:46 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by charliethebloody:

this thread's going different than the other one...

This one's more of the pop-culture...the other is more how it relates to the real world...

Surface Chrisisall

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Friday, May 25, 2007 11:00 AM

STORYMARK

Would anyone ask the same question if Xander had started sleeping with a man after he left Anya....?

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Friday, May 25, 2007 11:17 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
Would anyone ask the same question if Xander had started sleeping with a man after he left Anya....?

No, because women are more flexable sexually; men have to pick a side, so if Xander went that way, he'd be just gay.

It says that in a rulebook somewhere.

Tongue in his cheek Chrisisall

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Friday, May 25, 2007 2:03 PM

CHARLIETHEBLOODY

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
Would anyone ask the same question if Xander had started sleeping with a man after he left Anya....?

well I for one would have been too distracted

but eventually I might have got around to wondering...

--------------------------------------
"I'm an artist, with an e and a beret."

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Friday, May 25, 2007 2:14 PM

FREDGIBLET

Here's my take, sexuality is a continuum not a 3 part system, most people don't fall into purely heterosexual, completely 50-50 bi, or utterly homosexual. Part of the reason it sometimes seems that way is that society forces people to accept the roles and being in between just confuses people, the reality is that if there was no stigma or attempts to force people to choose one of the three "standard" positions most people would probably fall short of complete heterosexuality but still far away from being considered as really bi.

So with that in mind, willow probably falls in the middle of the continuum.

*Disclaimer, I haven't actually finished the series (I'm still meaning to get back to the DVD's) so I'm lacking specific information about Willow.

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Friday, May 25, 2007 3:24 PM

RUGBUG

Quote:
Originally posted by fredgiblet:
one of the three "standard" positions

I'm pretty sure there's more than three positions.

Quote:
Originally posted by fredgiblet:
Here's my take, sexuality is a continuum not a 3 part system, most people don't fall into purely heterosexual, completely 50-50 bi, or utterly homosexual. Part of the reason it sometimes seems that way is that society forces people to accept the roles and being in between just confuses people, the reality is that if there was no stigma or attempts to force people to choose one of the three "standard" positions most people would probably fall short of complete heterosexuality but still far away from being considered as really bi.

I've got to disagree. I think that if the absolutely no options were presented or forced, you'd get some who were straight hetero, some straight homosexual and some bi (that's not to mention other illegal leanings).

***************
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw

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Saturday, May 26, 2007 12:55 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by charliethebloody:
"I'm not a ... group. I'm me, willow-group"

One of my fav Willow quotes from the entire series. Ranks right up there with " I think this line's only filler " .

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Wednesday, June 17, 2009 10:39 AM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.

Speaking as a woman who has been attracted to and in love with people of both sexes, it really annoys me when people say I 'must be straight' when with a man and 'must be gay' when with a woman. I'm bi, and I'm bi all the time, regardless of what plumbing my current interest might have. (I really like the "continuum" postulation, it makes a lot of sense to me. Though it is a little more convenient to say I'm bi and leave it at that.) Few things in Buffy upset me as much as Willow saying "Hello, gay now" because that kind of attitude - that someone has to be one or the other - seems to me very closeminded and destructive.
Willow was in love with Oz, and more than that she was attracted to Oz. She enjoyed the straight sex. She was devastated when he left her.
Willow was in love with Xander. She was so attracted to Xander that she would make out with him when she got the chance, even though she was with Oz at the time. She had serious trouble controlling herself, there. That is not the dissembling of a closeted lesbian, that is definite lust.
Willow was in love with Tara. She was attracted to Tara. She enjoyed the lesbian sex. Her addiction came between them (though I always had a problem with that whole spin on the magic being a metaphor for drugs, especially as it had started as a metaphor for sex) and she quit, partly for Tara. When she lost Tara, she completely lost herself. When Kennedy was hitting on her and asked when she realized she enjoyed sex with girls, she said "It wasn't girls, it was... girl. One girl." Someone earlier said she loved the soul rather than the gender, and I think that's a very good way of putting it. It's how I feel about my own orientation.
As for Kennedy, that was the only Willow relationship I really didn't get into. I don't think the characters or the actresses had much chemistry, and it all seemed kind of forced. It was nice to see her happy again, but it would have been a lot nicer if someone had come along who resonated a little better. Someone of either sex. Like I said, I hated the putting of Willow into an orientation box. She was a beautiful character in so many ways, someone who loved deeply and passionately regardless of what someone was on the outside. Doing the "oh no, she's just gay all the sudden" thing is not only, in my opinion, inaccurate, but kind of a cheapening of that openness.
Okay, I've probably ranted plenty long on this topic now..

[/sig]

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Wednesday, June 17, 2009 11:23 AM

OPPYH

Quote:
Originally posted by PhoenixRose:

As for Kennedy, that was the only Willow relationship I really didn't get into. I don't think the characters or the actresses had much chemistry, and it all seemed kind of forced. It was nice to see her happy again, but it would have been a lot nicer if someone had come along who resonated a little better. Someone of either sex.

Yeah, Kennedy was a stupid choice for Willow. Absolutely forced.I don't know any fan of the show who thought that romance genuine.

Willow is a very attractive bi-sexual gal.

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Wednesday, June 17, 2009 1:52 PM

MSA

Rose!!!!!!!!! YAY it's Rose. She's alive and well:) Ok at least alive....HUGS and HUGS and HUGS.

Also well said...

To love someone is to see a miracle invisible to others.
--Francois Mauriac
It's fuzzy-minded liberal thinking like that that gets you eaten.

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