Season 8, #4 (SPOILERS) by deepgirl187

I don't mean "create" in the strictest sense. What I was leaning towards was the idea of Buffy (who has proven to be a capable leader) possibly leading the new Slayers towards actions that woud resemble what Hitler did with the Nazi party, i.e. trying to establish a society with them firmly in control, and possibly even enacting a pogrom against "normal" humans.

Your statement about a slayer-imposed world reminds me of another thread about Jasmine and free will. Yes, the Slayers probably wouldn't mess the world up any more than it already is, but I value what little say have over my own life. That wouldn't necessarily be a guarantee with them in control. Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely.

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"If you want to win a war, you must serve no master but your ambition."

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Wednesday, June 6, 2007 12:51 PM

MIRAMEL

lets not forget that buffy (and all teh others, for that matter) were legitimately chosen to be vamp. slayers; presumably the PTB had their reasons, which i would hope include that these girls exhibit non-pogramlike tendencies. buffy's always been about the helping, and even with slayerettes at her disposal, i don't see her going all corrupt-y

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Fear is the Mind Killer
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Wednesday, June 6, 2007 2:40 PM

DAVESHAYNE

Quote:
Originally posted by deepgirl187:
Your statement about a slayer-imposed world reminds me of another thread about Jasmine and free will.

Not the same thing at all. Jasmine literally controlled peoples minds the worst the slayers can do is beat people into submission.

Also on re-reading I do see one bit of new and possibly exciting info - Satsu has a cinnamon lip gloss. Perchance she has the secret crush on our fair Buffy.

David

"Not completely as well as the series of Firefly..." - From a review of Serenity at amazon.de

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Wednesday, June 6, 2007 3:41 PM

REGINAROADIE

I completely agree with whoever said "absolute power corrupts absolutely" in regards to this thread. And I think that this will be the main theme/conflict of Season 8. Now that there are thousands of super-powered beings, what's to say they won't get drunk with power and go past vampires and demons. Look at Faith. Faith is a fascinating character, since we saw how when she got this power, she got drunk with it and cut a swath, and it was only her hitting rock bottom that made her realize that she had been corrupted by her power and had to work towards redemption.

So I hope that Joss takes this approach in that Buffy may have unintentionally opened Pandora's Box. That not only does she have to be a leader to all these girls, but has to make sure that this doesn't lead to a dictatorship and become the monsters they fight on a daily basis.

"Do not battle with monsters, lest ye become a monster. And if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes back at you."

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"Have you ever fired two guns whilst jumping through the air?"
"No."
"Have you ever fired ONE gun whilst jumping through the air?"

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Wednesday, June 6, 2007 5:34 PM

BRANDONCOLLINS

I haven't read the 4th comic yet, have yet to receive it from my subscription service, but I thought I'd comment anyway.

The notion that Buffy herself would lead an army of Slayers to do bad in the world, in any form, is completely preposterous. Now, the notion that she may have inadvertantly opened Pandora's box with her decision to share her power with people she doesn't know, that is potentially problematic.

Problem with that is that you will always have loose canon Slayers, like Faith, who are only in it for the power and the fun of it. They don't care if they kill people, lie, cheat, steal, manipulate, it doesn't matter. They have power and you don't. That's the end of it.

I think this will probably be one of the major themes in the comic series, because it must be delt with. And since Buffy is the unofficial official leader of the Slayers, she's the one who is going to be targeted by people wanting to prevent the Slayers from taking power.

Buffy's a hero after all. We know this because we watched her be heroic. Not only that, but Giles said it best in S5 "Buffy could never kill a human. She's a hero, you see." Simple as that. But, as is well known, heroes make stupid decisions a lot.

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Wednesday, June 6, 2007 11:54 PM

Yes, Buffy is a hero. But like BrandonCollins wrote, sometimes humans make bad decisions,and sometimes they even do things that hurt other people. I'm not trying to say that deep down, Buffy is some evil, loose cannon. I'm saying that she has a load of power to deal with right now, as do all of th girls. There is a large potential for her to use it irresponsibly, not because she is a bad person, but because she is human. And in Buffy's mind, she wouldn't be doing bad for bad's sake, she would be trying to help others, because she would feel she knew what was best for them.

To me, seeing Buffy deal with all of this would be a fascinating story line.

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"If you want to win a war, you must serve no master but your ambition."

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Friday, June 8, 2007 9:41 PM

Got my copy today. For a wonder, UPS didn't screw up the delivery of it this month; hope that's the start of a trend.

Anyway, a few thoughts:

- The Warren part of the storyline was one thing I could've done without, even forgetting for a moment about the major continuity problems it creates for S7. There was just no 'resonance' of any kind to it. Worst of all, he didn't die this time, either, so I assume we'll be seeing him again at some point.

- Not sure what to think about this 'Humanity vs. Buffy' thing. Looks like it may be the main over-reaching story arc throughout the 'season', so I'll withhold judgment until we learn more about it.

- If the General is dead, is that the last we'll see of the military coming after her? He was the one driving that, and doing so for his own purposes, so now that he's gone...

- Really *$%@'ed about Ethan getting killed. He was one of my favorite 'minor' characters, and it was so cool to see him again last issue, and now he's dead.

- I liked Xander knowing enough that he shouldn't be the one to go thru the portal with Buffy. Looks like he really is growing up.

- So Satsu was the one who kissed Buffy. Aww, how cute

. I figure it either ends up like Fred's crush on Angel (early-S3), with a quiet talk and a gentle explanation of why it can't work, or like Andrew's on Xander (S7), never overtly mentioned but played for the occasional, subtle joke.

- Willow getting carved up by Warren, and then, "Hey, I'm fine", was a little weak. I know she's wicked powerful and all, but getting out of it that easy felt cheap. I guess(?) it was supposed to be funny, but really, not so much...

- The cover on this one was my favorite so far, but it's weird that after appearing on it, Dawn has such a small role (no pun intended) in the issue itself.

It's gonna be a long wait 'til August...

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Sunday, June 10, 2007 1:07 AM

DANIELFYRE

I do have a few comments about the issue myself. First off I know Joss is all pro-feminism and all and that's all good and shiny with me, but to have Buffy come out and say it so bluntly that the general has a problem with a FEMALE having power...I'm sorry that's a bit too much for me. I prefer the subtle undertones of a strong female instead of the main character voicing directly what it supposed to be implyed within, honestly it feels like it gets the point accross better when done more subtly. Again just my opinion.

The Warren thing I wasn't too keen on from the get go given it did make me go WOW at the end of the third comic, but beyond that...eh the continuity problems wern't worth it. I'm guessing Joss has an explaination of somesort, and if he doesn't he'll come up with one.

I have to agree that I'm dissapointed with how small Dawn's role was in this one. I'm not a fan of Dawn by any means but it still seemed pointless to have her on the cover if she's barely mentioned within.

I'm excited as hell for the Faith arc, 'nuff said.

and lastly, Buffy vs. The World: I will honestly have to side with the general on this one, I mean I don't care who you are you can not attempt to control a large group of people without having some type of problems with the individuals you are trying to lead, and when any one of these individuals can go ahead and be a living weapon fighting for the wrong reasons, the innocent will pay. Buffy is arrogent lets face it, and therein lies her weakness. At this point she needs to be humbled. In my opinion Joss will do that by the loss of a character, but either way this slayer army is going to crumble somehow. And again Buffy didn't think this through. Assuming that all the slayers that were ever to be...are now slayers then that means that this is the last line. This is it, when the slayer army lives out their existance after being wittled down by time there will be no one to defend the earth against the "forces of darkness." The General was right she effed with the natural balance of things...that isn't going to go unanswered.

Alright enough of my rant. Can't wait for #5.

-DanielFyre

"real men juggle geese"

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Sunday, June 10, 2007 3:07 AM

I agree with you DanielFrye, I was just wondering abut one thing.

Buffy did awaken a large number of Slayers, but what about the ones that haven't been born yet? If one of the present Slayers died, doesn't that mean another could be born? I wasn't sure if changing their destiny meant new Slayers were unable to be born.

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"If you want to win a war, you must serve no master but your ambition."

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Sunday, June 10, 2007 7:12 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by DanielFyre:
I do have a few comments about the issue myself. First off I know Joss is all pro-feminism and all and that's all good and shiny with me, but to have Buffy come out and say it so bluntly that the general has a problem with a FEMALE having power...I'm sorry that's a bit too much for me. I prefer the subtle undertones of a strong female instead of the main character voicing directly what it supposed to be implyed within, honestly it feels like it gets the point accross better when done more subtly. Again just my opinion.

I totally agree with you on that one. Literally my first thought, roughly 1.5 seconds after reading it, was: "Geez, unresolved Caleb-issues much?"

Oh, and I just realized last night that we still haven't found out who's mysterious floaty legs those were in issue #1...

And also, if Willow's that powerful that she can get cut up like a cadaver, then magick herself back to normal, why can't she magick-up Xander a new eyeball?

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Sunday, June 10, 2007 7:27 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Groosalugg:

- Willow getting carved up by Warren, and then, "Hey, I'm fine", was a little weak. I know she's wicked powerful and all, but getting out of it that easy felt cheap. I guess(?) it was supposed to be funny, but really, not so much...

That was a big *sigh* factor for me- I mean in a good way! I expected to see Willow's face a horrible mess!!! I was both relieved AND chuckling.

I'm easy Chrisisall

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Sunday, June 10, 2007 7:31 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Groosalugg:

And also, if Willow's that powerful that she can get cut up like a cadaver, then magick herself back to normal, why can't she magick-up Xander a new eyeball?

Magic was used in cutting her up, but Caleb used good old normal douschebaggyness to take Xander's eye.

Anyway, that's all I can think of at the moment...:evil

Chrisisall

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Sunday, June 10, 2007 7:34 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by deepgirl187:
I wasn't sure if changing their destiny meant new Slayers were unable to be born.

I was assuming that ALL new potential Slayers would be born with the power now, at least until some major baddie makes with the uber-mojo to change that.

Never assume Chrisisall

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Sunday, June 10, 2007 8:18 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Never assume Chrisisall

Assume makes an ass out of you and me.

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"If you want to win a war, you must serve no master but your ambition."

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Sunday, June 10, 2007 8:53 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Magic was used in cutting her up, but Caleb used good old normal douschebaggyness to take Xander's eye.

Not really. Warren's being kept alive thru magick, yeah, but the carving-up of Willow was being done with just a plain old X-Acto knife...

Maybe she'll get busy on that 'new-eyeball-for-Xander'-thing as soon as she and Buffy get back...

(Okay, maybe not...)

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Sunday, June 10, 2007 9:47 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Groosalugg:
the carving-up of Willow was being done with just a plain old X-Acto knife...

Yeah, but on an etherial plain, thanks to those PTB's.

Tryin' hard here Chrisisall

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Sunday, June 10, 2007 9:52 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Yeah, but on an etherial plain, thanks to those PTB's.

No, her mind, her 'essence' was on an etherial plane, yeah, but her body was in a regular old Earth-bound, government-funded lab. The only magick goin' on there was the stuff keeping Ligament Boy alive, and the bounds holding Willow down...

Try harder.

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Sunday, June 10, 2007 10:25 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Groosalugg:
The only magick goin' on there was the stuff keeping Ligament Boy alive, and the bounds holding Willow down...

Try harder.

When a non-magick surgical proceedure is being performed by a being bound by or enabled by magicks, logic dictates that it be considered a magickal occurance because without the magicks, the 'normal' action itself would not be possible.

Me trying harder Chrisisall

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Sunday, June 10, 2007 2:07 PM

SERENITYINSCOTLAND

Chalk me up in the underwhelmed column. Slightly disappointed with this issue, there's almost nothing to talk about. Though I am pleased that I made the point in the season 2 discussion that Warren was a good bet for the villian because of the spell in 'The Killer In Me' - I guessed that was an easy retcon. So, other points...

I don't think we've seen the last of Ethan - why would he be wearing his 'civilian' clothes in prison, not to mention the exact same clothes as the dream sequence. I reckon there's more to come there.

Dawn - I honestly thought we'd see the giant storyline resolved by now. But Joss has said he is very excited bout it, so maybe we are in for the long run there. Willow as a mother? Interesting imagery. Mother goddess through the Wicca angle maybe. I mean, as a conventional mother, Buffy was only out of the picture for (at most) four months, and after that Will was hardly a role model.

I can't see Satsu as the kisser - to have a new character fall in love with Buffy would mean next to nothing. It's a red herring I tells you! Unless the whole kiss plotline was a red herring?

Willow getting out unscathed - is this an indication of her power? Is she really next to invincible? How bout this for a potential plotline - before 'Chosen', Buffy was special: she was the slayer. Now, there are many slayers and from what we've seen of their (at least Satsu's) fighting abilities, they are gaining ground on Buffy. Will Willow be the special (read 'leader') one now? Could Buffy handle that?

Buffy vs. Mankind - not going to be a long term plotline unless Joss changes everything we know about Buffy and makes her into a Groening figure. I can only assume that when Buffy said 'OK' at the end, she was meaning Slayers vs. Reactionary US military scarred generals.

Willow and Buffy - doubt the magical connection is a permanent one. But interesting language from Buffy in context of the awakening kiss "She's a part of me". Not much of a stretch to interpret that as romantic. Just saying...

Finally - have we finally seen the Powers That Be? Or maybe just some Wiccan Gods? That (for me) is the big unanswered question from #4. Who were the beings protecting Willow?

Hmmm..after writing for ten mintues, maybe there is plently to talk about!!!

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Sunday, June 10, 2007 2:22 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SerenityinScotland:

I can only assume that when Buffy said 'OK' at the end, she was meaning Slayers vs. Reactionary US military scarred generals.

With you there, SIS!!
Primevil taught them nothing, heh heh!
Pound them, says I!

Yes, this is more interesting than first meets the read.

Powers that Be Chrisisall

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Sunday, June 10, 2007 3:09 PM

WTE

I liked it. A couple things...

1) When first reading it, Buffy's thing to the General about female empowerment seemed lame and beating-us-over-the-head to me, too, but I think it was intentional... that is, so that he could sort of say, "Uh, no. It's not because you're women. It's because you're gonna start killing us >_>" I think it was just a means of... for lack of a non-clichè, taking the wind out of Buffy's sails momentarily.

2) What was the hint about Satsu? I feel dumb for missing that now, whatever it was...

3) eeeeeeee I can't wait until August.

HONKS

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Sunday, June 10, 2007 4:49 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by WTE:
2) What was the hint about Satsu? I feel dumb for missing that now, whatever it was...

When Buffy woke up from the spell last issue, when 'whoever' kissed her, she inexplicably shouted "Cinnamon buns!" In this issue, she asked to borrow Satsu's lipgloss, which turned out to be cinnamon lipgloss. Could be a red herring; we'll see.

And Chris: I give. You win the eyeball argument.

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Monday, June 11, 2007 4:06 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Groosalugg:

And Chris: I give. You win the eyeball argument.

I did?

I mean, of course I did!

Thanks Groos, Chrisisall

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Thursday, June 14, 2007 1:48 AM

GOMITHROUS

I did like the issue but it felt kinda anti-climactic. I mean we've still got teh Dawn issue, who kissed Buffy (though there is some speculation) and the floating boots from #1. Also about the whole government plotline... what if Sam (RIley's wife) is really behind it? Muhahaha

As for the Warren and Amy thing, I don't know what to think yet, they'll obviously be in the picture for a while so hopefully something cool is done with that and maybe an explanation too.

What is best in life?
To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you and to hear the lamentation of their women...

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Sunday, June 17, 2007 11:33 PM

JWHEDONADDICT

Got mine last Monday, but haven't been able to respond due to lack of internet at home now(hopefully temporary).

Anyway, belated Snoopy Dance!!!

The only comment I have right now is that if Buffy empowering a bunch of possibly corruptable young women is "wrong", then I sure as hell don't want to be right. Arrogant men have controlled and fucked up the world long enough with little to no judgement at all...it's beyond time to see what the other half would do in the same situation. I would personally love to live in that world. Go, Buffy!!!

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"What if you could have the power? Now? In every generation, one Slayer is born...because a bunch of men who died thousands of years ago made up that rule...
So I say we change the rule. I say my power should be our power...
Every girl who could have the power, will have the power. Can stand up, will stand up...
Make your choice. Are you ready to be strong?"--Buffy Summers, May 20, 2003

"In Joss We Trust."

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Thursday, September 6, 2007 6:39 AM

ZEEK

Quote:
Originally posted by BrandonCollins:
Buffy's a hero after all. We know this because we watched her be heroic. Not only that, but Giles said it best in S5 "Buffy could never kill a human. She's a hero, you see." Simple as that. But, as is well known, heroes make stupid decisions a lot.

I'm pretty sure she did kill humans in that very season. When the order of medieval army guys who were trying to stop Glory by killing Dawn attacked their little RV she was hurling them off the thing. Stabbing them with axes and such. I'm pretty sure some of them died in that fight.

So, I think she's over the "don't kill humans even if they're bad" thing. She was over it when she tried to kill Faith in season 3.

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Thursday, September 6, 2007 8:02 AM

She tried to STOP Faith, not kill her...

Quote:
I'm pretty sure she did kill humans in that very season. When the order of medieval army guys who were trying to stop Glory by killing Dawn attacked their little RV she was hurling them off the thing. Stabbing them with axes and such. I'm pretty sure some of them died in that fight.

...and I don't own season 5 for that, among other reasons.

Dracula VS. Chrisisall

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Friday, September 7, 2007 6:18 AM

JWHEDONADDICT

Chris, Chris, Chris...that is

crazy talk!

Not owning Season 5...Checkpoint, The Body, The Gift...INTERVENTION!!!!

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"They talk about me in the chatty rooms?"--Angel

"I'm 1120 years old. Just give me a frigging beer!"--Anya

For Joss!

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Friday, September 7, 2007 7:50 AM