BUFFYVERSE

High School Buffy, or post-High School Buffy; that is the question.

POSTED BY: CHRISISALL
UPDATED: Tuesday, May 18, 2010 07:16
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 5446
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Sunday, March 21, 2010 2:26 PM

CHRISISALL


Personally, I enjoyed he post-High School adventures a whole lot more- they had a scope that exceeded the simplistic insular bad-boy romance with Angel & the ensuing problems.
Sure, the Mayor was a fantastic Big Bad, and Faith was a superb foil, but still, I felt the series really bloomed after she graduated.

Thoughts?


The laughing Chrisisall

"I only do it to to remind you that I'm right and that deep down, you know I'm right, you want me to be right, you need me to be right." - The Imperial Hero Strikes Back, 2010

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Sunday, March 21, 2010 2:43 PM

THESOMNAMBULIST


Dang it I have to hit the hay! And a juicy Buffy question aswell!!! Bugger. I'll have to get back to you Chris. But the short answer is
HIGH SCHOOL BUFFY.

I shall elaborate further whence I am free from my slumber.

Laters Big 'C'




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Monday, March 22, 2010 10:41 AM

THESOMNAMBULIST


Ok back now...

To elaborate. I'm fond of the 'high school Buffy' because of the way the writers used the high school as a metaphor for what Buffy was going through and indeed, high school kids in general - y'know the idea that when you're in high school it feels like hell, and you think your teachers are demons and they secretly want to kill you etc, etc. Having Buffy blow the school up in the end is inspired! I feel the writers really tapped into something deeper and richer with that. More so than they ever could after High School. (Having Buffy came back to work in the high school in season seven, slightly betrays all that actually - now I think of it... Hmmm)

I'd conceed that the later seasons probably had the better episodes (Hush, Restless, Jonothan, Once More with Feeling, Chosen) but the seasonal arc's weren't as strong.

The season three Arc is so brilliantly realised, that there is simply not an episode out of place.

Over to you bud....?





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Monday, March 22, 2010 10:47 AM

CHRISISALL


Season 3 is clearly the best of the best overall, but I like individual eps that shine better- Conversations With Dead People or Chosen trump most of season 3 for me, except maybe The Wish...
But arc-wise, yeah, 3 is topps.


The laughing Chrisisall

"I only do it to to remind you that I'm right and that deep down, you know I'm right, you want me to be right, you need me to be right." - The Imperial Hero Strikes Back, 2010

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Monday, March 22, 2010 11:26 AM

ZEEK


I'm going with High School Buffy. It just seemed like they had the formula down in High School. She had the demon world to deal with, getting through classes, socializing, and dealing with her mom. So, many places to go with the story. She had a big Peter Parker vibe going. She could never get her life firing on all cylinders at once. She constantly had to give up on what she wanted to focus on the responsibility that came with her power.

When she became an adult a lot of those burdens dropped away or became more forced. OK she needs a job, but no one wants to sit there watching her at a job. OK she socializes, but she doesn't have the mean Cordy group to deal with. She doesn't really have peers to protect in the same way. It's just makes the stories more forced IMO.

Season 2 and 3 were great IMO.

Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
Conversations With Dead People


Conversations With Dead People is such a bitter sweet episode for me. I really wanted a payoff on Joyce's ghost message. I wanted to see some Dawn vs Buffy issues. At best it was really Joyce and sending Dawn away with Xander was the payoff (lame). At worst it got completely dropped and made the episode lose a lot of it's punch.

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Monday, March 22, 2010 11:43 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by Zeek:


Season 2 and 3 were great IMO.


Seasons 2 & 3 were the eye-popping seasons. The OMG seasons.
But as a real old guy (as lettuce goes), I have to like the responsibility eps better. The shagging of Spike & its' fallout. The fall of the First.


The laughing Chrisisall

"I only do it to to remind you that I'm right and that deep down, you know I'm right, you want me to be right, you need me to be right." - The Imperial Hero Strikes Back, 2010

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Thursday, March 25, 2010 2:34 AM

LWAVES


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:

Originally posted by Zeek:


Season 2 and 3 were great IMO.


Seasons 2 & 3 were the eye-popping seasons. The OMG seasons.
But as a real old guy (as lettuce goes), I have to like the responsibility eps better. The shagging of Spike & its' fallout. The fall of the First.


The laughing Chrisisall

"I only do it to to remind you that I'm right and that deep down, you know I'm right, you want me to be right, you need me to be right." - The Imperial Hero Strikes Back, 2010



This is a good question and a tough one for me to answer. It's easier to pick fave seasons or episodes than groups of seasons.

Most of the points already made about season arcs, big bads, individual episodes etc are all valied and I can agree with them.

For me the first three seasons was more about Buffy accepting who she really was and that whatever life outside of this she could have it would never be normal, she could never escape her slayer destiny.
Then by seasons 4+5 she had accepted her destiny but the show placed her out of her normal comfort zone (for lack of a better term) but still kept her within the school system. The ultimate realisation that if her death saved people then it was worth it, it's part of what being a slayer means.
Then 6+7 put her completely out of place. She had her destiny still but now had to fight to just want to stay alive, both literally and with real world issues. These overall had a much darker tone. None of the gang was in a good place and they were effectively fighting themselves for who they were.

So I'm going to stand on the fence and say that both High School and post High School Buffy were great either as a group of seasons or because of the sum of their parts. With maybe a slight lean towards High School Buffy.



"I don't believe in suicide, but if you'd like to try it it might cheer me up to watch."

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Saturday, March 27, 2010 1:35 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


HS

Things got a bit weird w/ the military base under Sunnyville and such.


Summer Glau can simply walk into Mordor


Bones: "Don't 'rawr' her!"
Booth: "What? she'rawred' me first."

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Tuesday, March 30, 2010 5:34 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by lwaves:
Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:

Originally posted by Zeek:


Season 2 and 3 were great IMO.


Seasons 2 & 3 were the eye-popping seasons. The OMG seasons.
But as a real old guy (as lettuce goes), I have to like the responsibility eps better. The shagging of Spike & its' fallout. The fall of the First.


The laughing Chrisisall

"I only do it to to remind you that I'm right and that deep down, you know I'm right, you want me to be right, you need me to be right." - The Imperial Hero Strikes Back, 2010



This is a good question and a tough one for me to answer. It's easier to pick fave seasons or episodes than groups of seasons.

Most of the points already made about season arcs, big bads, individual episodes etc are all valied and I can agree with them.

For me the first three seasons was more about Buffy accepting who she really was and that whatever life outside of this she could have it would never be normal, she could never escape her slayer destiny.
Then by seasons 4+5 she had accepted her destiny but the show placed her out of her normal comfort zone (for lack of a better term) but still kept her within the school system. The ultimate realisation that if her death saved people then it was worth it, it's part of what being a slayer means.
Then 6+7 put her completely out of place. She had her destiny still but now had to fight to just want to stay alive, both literally and with real world issues. These overall had a much darker tone. None of the gang was in a good place and they were effectively fighting themselves for who they were.

So I'm going to stand on the fence and say that both High School and post High School Buffy were great either as a group of seasons or because of the sum of their parts. With maybe a slight lean towards High School Buffy.



"I don't believe in suicide, but if you'd like to try it it might cheer me up to watch."




Wow. You summed up my feelings perfectly.




"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions


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Tuesday, March 30, 2010 6:23 PM

GINOBIFFARONI


My favorite clips




Giles singing one of my favorite songs

How appropriate...





one of the best eps... best finale that didn't happen


I love the part where Giles kills the bad guy

" She wouldn't do this, even knowing the cost... She is a hero

She is not like us " then he smothers the guy to death

brilliant scene


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Wednesday, March 31, 2010 7:23 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:

" She wouldn't do this, even knowing the cost... She is a hero

She is not like us "

Chills-time.
My jaw dropped first time I saw that.


The laughing Chrisisall

"I only do it to to remind you that I'm right and that deep down, you know I'm right, you want me to be right, you need me to be right." - The Imperial Hero Strikes Back, 2010

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Wednesday, March 31, 2010 8:09 AM

STORYMARK


Though I love season 3, I liked the post-HS years overall a bit better. I liked the metaphorical aspect of the High School stories, but felt they had played that hand out, and appreciated the expanded scope the stories presented once they got out of their bubble.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Wednesday, March 31, 2010 8:13 AM

CHRISISALL


Nicely put, Story. My feelings 'zactly.


The laughing Chrisisall

"I only do it to to remind you that I'm right and that deep down, you know I'm right, you want me to be right, you need me to be right." - The Imperial Hero Strikes Back, 2010

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Tuesday, April 13, 2010 10:19 AM

THESOMNAMBULIST


Thing is with post High School Buffy the overall feeling with seasons 5, and 6 in particular is that the show is struggling to find an identity.

The idea of Glory a banished god is a good one as a concept but she's kind of played like a cartoon character. Her schtick for me is too MTV. Too much of a pastiche of previous 'big bads' and is perhaps the weakest villain of the entire seven season run. The character just doesn't warrant a whole season. And ultimately there's no real reason why Buffy didn't just take Dawn away from Sunnydale to avoid the threat of Glory in the first place?

Season Six is just not my cup of tea. The attempt at maturity guised as melodrama falls flat. At least for me and the idea that the villains are now the geeks is just so beneath Buffy... Buffy who is a Vampire Slayer. A Slayer of ancient and mystical evils finding her age old skills utilized for nothing more than adolescents who enact their comic book fantasies... Nah. It bites! I just cannot re-watch this season. And I've tried! But you know to each thier own.

Season Seven does go a long way to reclaiming the 'character' that was Buffy. It's richer, more fun and yet still with moments of genuine menace to make the hairs on the old neck rise again. And that's great! It looks fresher, some additional characters add genuine depth to the season: The conflict between the Principle, Spike and Buffy is strong stuff and reflects the kind of twists we were so accustomed to having when Angel was around. We have Faith, Caleb and the Slayerettes who like them or loath them gave us something extra to ponder about. And frankly hating one or two of them often helped with watching the episodes as you witnessed their grizzly deaths with morbid delight.

As for Season Four I dunno were to put it, because they're still in eduction so it kinda works too in that way. It's the funniest of the lot and for that I like it, but it remains somehow estranged from the rest because of the whole government fighting monsters thing... It's just plain bananas!


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Tuesday, April 13, 2010 11:25 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by TheSomnambulist:


The idea of Glory a banished god is a good one as a concept but she's kind of played like a cartoon character. Her schtick for me is too MTV.

I had a real problem with her for a WHOLE season as well.
Quote:



Season Six is just not my cup of tea. The attempt at maturity guised as melodrama falls flat. At least for me and the idea that the villains are now the geeks is just so beneath Buffy... Buffy who is a Vampire Slayer. A Slayer of ancient and mystical evils finding her age old skills utilized for nothing more than adolescents who enact their comic book fantasies... Nah. It bites! I just cannot re-watch this season. And I've tried!

I see what you're saying & I respect it... I may have hated it myself if I'd had to endure the angst over broadcast months (I ripped thru it in a week), so I actually like it for its hard-to-watch-ness!! Go figure.
Quote:



Season Seven does go a long way to reclaiming the 'character' that was Buffy. It's richer, more fun and yet still with moments of genuine menace to make the hairs on the old neck rise again. And that's great! It looks fresher, some additional characters add genuine depth to the season: The conflict between the Principle, Spike and Buffy is strong stuff and reflects the kind of twists we were so accustomed to having when Angel was around. We have Faith, Caleb and the Slayerettes who like them or loath them gave us something extra to ponder about. And frankly hating one or two of them often helped with watching the episodes as you witnessed their grizzly deaths with morbid delight.

You nailed why it's my favourite season!
Quote:



As for Season Four I dunno were to put it,
... the whole government fighting monsters thing... It's just plain bananas!

It was an awkward but fun growing pain IMO.


The laughing Chrisisall


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Tuesday, April 13, 2010 11:59 AM

CHRISISALL


Oh, now ya got me all in the mood to expound!!!

Season 1 was fun, light & novel. Loved The Master.

2 was even better, mostly due to Spike.

3 was Golden, from every perspective. Creativity run rampant. All but one episode were absolute perfection.

4 was trying real hard, and mostly succeeded, even though the whole "Government" thing might have been too much of a reach for what started as as a more intimate (and budget-restricted) story. Still, Hush...

5 mainly sucked IMO due to GLORY NEVER SHUTTING UP & CLEARLY NOT any kind of "GOD," killing Joyce, "I Was Made to Love You," Glory breaking her heel, Glory taking SO long to do her stuff, and Dawn's dodgy birth. Still, "Fool For Love," one of the best eps in the series.

6 was pain. Then more pain. Dark. A set-up for rebirth. And, well, rebirth literally too.

7 was the cream at the top of the bottle IMO. Not as wildly creative as 3, but it had a direction towards an endgame, and its epic-ness was looming throughout the season. Best FX, best fight scenes since "Anne," best bitter-sweet end to a series ever.


The expounding Chrisisall


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Tuesday, April 13, 2010 12:04 PM

LWAVES


Quote:

Originally posted by TheSomnambulist:
And ultimately there's no real reason why Buffy didn't just take Dawn away from Sunnydale to avoid the threat of Glory in the first place?



I thought of this myself at the time and came up with the answer that she wouldn't run away from her duties and responsibilities. At the start they had no idea what they were dealing with, either with the Key or with Glory, so (to me) they saw no point in running. And when they did try to get away in the mobile home they failed. Plus the Key had been sent to Buffy for protection when the monks could have just hidden it again. I always took it to mean that Glory was too close to finding it and they knew a fight was coming or at least that she'd find the Key so who better to protect something than a slayer.

Quote:


At least for me the idea that the villains are now the geeks is just so beneath Buffy.



Maybe this is just me but I never saw them as the main villains, even whilst I was watching it at the time. I always thought they were just disguising the fact that there was going to be a real big bad later on. They added some great humour to the show but was happy once the hints at where Willows plot was going started to come through. I would add though that I thought they should have had her go darker a couple of episodes earlier but without the other Scoobies realising. Then have Tara's death push her right over.

Just my take on things.



"I don't believe in suicide, but if you'd like to try it it might cheer me up to watch."

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Tuesday, April 13, 2010 12:07 PM

THESOMNAMBULIST


Well expounded Chris :D I think I agree on everything... But what is this less than perfect episode in season three you speak of?




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Tuesday, April 13, 2010 12:19 PM

THESOMNAMBULIST


Originally posted by lwaves:
Quote:

I thought of this myself at the time and came up with the answer that she wouldn't run away from her duties and responsibilities. At the start they had no idea what they were dealing with, either with the Key or with Glory, so (to me) they saw no point in running. And when they did try to get away in the mobile home they failed. Plus the Key had been sent to Buffy for protection when the monks could have just hidden it again. I always took it to mean that Glory was too close to finding it and they knew a fight was coming or at least that she'd find the Key so who better to protect something than a slayer.


But Buffy 'vamosed' at the end of season two - so it kind of makes that point redundant. Or at least odd, because the desperation that Buffy had towards Dawn was belittled by this simple oversight.

Quote:

I would add though that I thought they should have had her go darker a couple of episodes earlier but without the other Scoobies realising. Then have Tara's death push her right over.


Yes I agree.


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Tuesday, April 13, 2010 12:39 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by TheSomnambulist:
what is this less than perfect episode in season three you speak of?




My bad, it's "Him" I was thinking of, not in that season. Ooops (that's the only ep of 7 I wasn't thrilled with)!


The laughing Chrisisall


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Tuesday, April 13, 2010 12:51 PM

CHRISISALL


Honestly, the whole Cordelia/Xander thing in 3 was kinda, I dunno, SO adolescent... I could have done without it. But again (& conversely), that's a thing that I think DVD viewing sorta trivializes, month by month it prolly worked more effectively.


The laughing Chrisisall


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Tuesday, April 13, 2010 1:25 PM

STORYMARK


Adolescents acting like adolescents on a show.... about adolescents?


Surely not!

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Tuesday, April 13, 2010 1:33 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
Adolescents acting like adolescents on a show.... about adolescents?


Surely not!


It's unforgivable.





The laughing Chrisisall


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Sunday, April 25, 2010 8:16 AM

CAMPBECC


Probably High School Buffy, but really I like all of the seasons except for season 6 which was terrible in my opinion like a poorly done Soap Opera. Season 7 rebounded and was really good but Season 6 had already chased away too many viewers and the show got canceled.

Save Chuck: Don't let them cancel another great Adam Baldwin show go to http://savechucknow.wordpress.com/1-2/ to see YOU can Save Chuck

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Sunday, April 25, 2010 8:51 AM

THESOMNAMBULIST


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:

Originally posted by TheSomnambulist:
what is this less than perfect episode in season three you speak of?




My bad, it's "Him" I was thinking of, not in that season. Ooops (that's the only ep of 7 I wasn't thrilled with)!


The laughing Chrisisall




Ha - I just rewatched this a couple of nights ago. It's a little like Buffy of season 1.


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Sunday, April 25, 2010 8:54 AM

THESOMNAMBULIST


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
Honestly, the whole Cordelia/Xander thing in 3 was kinda, I dunno, SO adolescent... I could have done without it. But again (& conversely), that's a thing that I think DVD viewing sorta trivializes, month by month it prolly worked more effectively.



..but then it gave us the Xander/Cordelia, Willow/Oz thing... And that was good.


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Monday, April 26, 2010 5:54 AM

BLACKSHAMROCK5


Ah...Willow/Oz possibly my favorite thing along with not-in-love-with-Buffy Spike which is why my vote goes to High School Buffy.

remember, a kick in the ass is a step forward

Shamrock
www.myspace.com/clover718

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Tuesday, May 18, 2010 4:08 AM

GASLAND2012


Definitely the High School Buffy!

No Question about it!

www.gasland2012.com

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Tuesday, May 18, 2010 7:16 AM

OPPYH


Season 1-Pretty decent. Introduction to the characters, and lots of fun.

Season 2-Perfection.

Season 3-Almost as good as season 2.

Season 4-College Buffy, Ok I liked it well enough.

Season 5-"The Body" and "Fool for Love" made this season. I didn't care that much for Glory.

Season 6-Dark. Very dark. "Once More with Feeling" made me laugh. Willow as the big bad felt ver Dark Phoenixy. Overall...Meh!

Season 7-Yes, Buffy at her most powerful, a true superhero. All other cahracters(including Willow and Xander) take a back seat in the character development area. Tragic.
Verdict:
High School Buffy.

-------------------------------------------------

70's TV FOREVER

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