9 Reasons why Firefly is the best Joss Show by laoshi

BUFFYVERSE

9 Reasons why Firefly is the best Joss Show

POSTED BY: LAOSHI
UPDATED: Friday, November 17, 2006 06:07
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Tuesday, November 7, 2006 5:55 PM

The Week in Whedon is running a favourite Mutant Enemy Series poll. So we’ve got to ask ourselves who is the fairest Mutant of them all? A poll where Firefly is way out in front at the moment. But simple numbers never tell the whole story. So I wanted to share nine reasons why it should be Firefly.
1. I think so many people are drawn to Firefly because of the ethos of the show and the story behind it. Firefly is the little show that could. The story of how it was cancelled and was then brought back on the big screen meshes perfectly with the story the show tells of going through appalling loss, learning to cope with it and the small victories of just surviving. Just to have made the Serenity movie is as big a victory as Mal and the rest of the crews' broadcasting the truth about Miranda. The Show and the characters in it are both underdogs and deep down we all want the underdog to succeed.
2. Firefly was on the screen for such a short time and it remains an unfinished work. A lot of its appeal is that we all want to find out how this story ends. I have an idealised picture in my head of how I wanted the Firefly series to play out. The fantasy of a continued firefly can never match the reality of 7 seasons of Buffy and 5 seasons of Angel. If Firefly had lasted for anything like as long as Buffy or Angel it might be a closer race. Although we all want to know what happens to the Scoobies after the destruction of Sunnydale and whether Angel really got to slay that dragon; most of the interesting character development and good story lines had already been played out. Buffy can only kill angel once at the exact moment he regains his soul to stop the world from ending and have it mean that much to her. Angel can have only one child taken from him by an old nemesis bent on revenge for the murder of his family. But for Firefly we still have the promise of so many good stories. Will Mal and Inara ever get together? Will we ever find out what drove her from the Core? What about Book's past? Will Simon and Kaylee live happily ever after? How will Zoe cope without Wash? What will River be like now she's not so crazy? We all have our own ideas on this and we all want to see what Joss will do in any Sequels to the BDM.
3. There are no bad episodes in Firefly. Even the most ardent Buffy/Angel fan has got to admit that over the course of those shows some episodes were relatively weak compared to others. Of course a weak Mutant enemy show is still better than anything else on TV, but over the sheer number of episodes written there is bound to be an occasional dud. But the 14 episodes of Firefly are all so shiny, there are no weak episodes. If Firefly had run for 7 seasons we would have seen a weak episode eventually but it didn't and we don't.
4. No evil Big Damn Heroes. Of all the BDH’s who later popped up in Buffy and Angel Nathan Fillion’s portrayal of Caleb is my favourite. He and Adam Baldwin’s Hamilton are characters we love to hate, and Gina Torres is a goddess and deserves to be treated like one. But the characters they play in Firefly are just so far above and beyond the villains of the Buffyverse.
5. Firefly is a much more mature show. Buffy and to a lesser extend Angel were all about teenage angst. The characters of Firefly are adults and have to deal with problems like adults. Mal and Inara not being able to have a proper relationship because both of them would have to change who they are to be with the other person is so much more emotionally satisfying than Buffy and Angel’s we can’t have sex or ill turn into a monster and kill everyone you love. Wash and Zoe fighting over whether or not to have a baby when they lead such dangerous lives is just more real than anything we find in the Buffyverse.
6. Angel was a dry run for Firefly. Angel is a prototype of Mal. Fred is a proto-River. Gunn is a proto-Jayne. Westley is a proto-Simon. Doyle is a proto-Wash and Cordelia has to serve as both a proto-Inara and proto-Zoe. Lastly Faith is a proto-Book its all about the redemption. Ok I’m going to have to give them that last one.
7. Only one episode of Summer Glau? What were you thinking Joss go back and try again! What you’ve written a series where she is one of the main characters. Good Joss, here’s a shiny sixpence.
8. River could kick Buffy and Angel’s butts anytime, anywhere! Reavers are a lot tougher and scarier than any demon either one of them ever fought. She is a psychic, you can't beat someone who can read your mind and know exactly what your doing next. She has better martial arts skills than Buffy or Angel. Lets face it River has a huge advantage because she can use here genius intelligence on them. She can out-think and out-maneuver both of them and then do a very graceful version of the dance of Joy over their unconscious bodies.
9. Here are nine reasons in one: Nathan Fillion, Summer Glau, Gina Torres, Alan Tudyk, Morena Baccarin, Adam Baldwin, Sean Maher, Ron Glass. What more could you need?

Alliance n. In international politics, the union of two thieves who have their hands so deeply inserted in each other's pocket that they cannot separately plunder a third. -Ambrose Bierce

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Tuesday, November 7, 2006 6:31 PM

DEEPGIRL187

I'm with you up until number six. Saying Gunn is a proto-Jayne is like saying Spike and Angel will get married and live happily ever after in a crypt in the suburbs (apologies to all the Spangel shippers out there). I'll admit, Jayne is a lot smarter than he looks, but comparing him to Gunn is just wrong. Gunn was always more than just the muscle, but he had to reach a point where he was ready to accept that, which you get to see in season five. Jayne, on the other hand is very comfortable with being the muscle, and has no illusions otherwise.

Secondly, while I understand what you're trying to say with the Book/Faith comparison, I don't think it fits. Yes, both characters are concerned with redemption, but I think the other differences are still too extreme. Book would be more comparable to Giles or even Lorne as being a guide for the other characters.

Anyway, just my humble opinion. And definitely, Firefly is the best show by far. Even at their best, Buffy and Angel just can't compare.

*************************************************

"So long and goodnight."

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Tuesday, November 7, 2006 8:19 PM

LAOSHI

Ok I recognise the error of my ways over the whole Book/Faith redemption comparison. I was definately reaching a bit there and she was the first one who came to mind.
I do think though that my comparison of Gunn and Jayne should stand. Jayne isn't just the muscle.Before Jaynestown you could probably get away with saying that but not after. Obviously we have to take account of the fact that firefly ended so soon but I do think he was on a similar character arc. That whole episode is about jayne's journey of self-discovery. i think that he is one of the characters who changes the most during the course of the series. he may be justthe muscle to begin with but he is something more than that by the end of the BDM.

Alliance n. In international politics, the union of two thieves who have their hands so deeply inserted in each other's pocket that they cannot separately plunder a third. -Ambrose Bierce

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Wednesday, November 8, 2006 5:34 AM

RUGBUG

While I don't agree that Firefly is the best show...oddly for many of the reasons you stated...I have to agree with the previous poster that Gunn is not a proto-type Jayne.

Yes, In Jaynestown we realize he has some depth, but he's still just muscle with some feelings. Gunn was always more than just muscle. Just cause ME could never really find a place for him, until Season 5, doesn't mean he was just muscle.

***************
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw

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Wednesday, November 8, 2006 2:12 PM

LAOSHI

Convince me then what is it the Gunn says or does that gives the impression he is more than just muscle that Jayne never says or does. What's this big difference between the two characters I'm not seeing. They both start out fulfilling the role of extra muscle. But they were both always more than that. Jayne knowing the word pretencious (I'm pretty sure I spelled that wrong.) Watching over Kaylee when she's been shot. All of Jaynestown. We hear about his family life in the message he has a younger sibling who's sick and he sends money home to his family. Joss doesn't write 1 dimensional characters and certainly not 1 dimensional main characters. Jayne just like Gunn is and always was more than the guy who beats people up for you.

Alliance n. In international politics, the union of two thieves who have their hands so deeply inserted in each other's pocket that they cannot separately plunder a third. -Ambrose Bierce

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Wednesday, November 8, 2006 5:30 PM

DEEPGIRL187

You're right, Joss never writes one-dimensional characters. And I'm not saying that there aren't many dimensions to Jayne. Just like an ogre, he has layers.

And being the muscle doesn't preclude Jayne from being somewhat intelligent. He would have to be to have survived as long as he has.

My point is here is that Gunn was never happy with being just the muscle. He wanted more in life, to be recognized as something other than the brawn. Jayne, on the other hand, enjoys doing exactly what he does. And more importantly, he seems comfortable with that role. That difference between the two is what makes the comparison inaccurate, at least to me.

*************************************************

"So long and goodnight."

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Wednesday, November 8, 2006 10:33 PM

LAOSHI

Ok I'll conceed the point. Gunn is diferent from Jayne. In that respect he is not happy with being just the muscle. But I was talking in more of a general sense. A proto-type is a dry run you make changes between it and the finished copy. There are differences between Angel and Mal and Westley and Simon etc.
Anyway I'll just sit in a corner and be wrong in my wrongness.

Alliance n. In international politics, the union of two thieves who have their hands so deeply inserted in each other's pocket that they cannot separately plunder a third. -Ambrose Bierce

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Thursday, November 9, 2006 6:59 AM

RUGBUG

Quote:
Originally posted by laoshi:
A proto-type is a dry run you make changes between it and the finished copy.

Anyway I'll just sit in a corner and be wrong in my wrongness.

So Jayne is the finished copy of Gunn? I think it's the other way around.

And really, I don't think any of the Firefly characters are 'finished copies' of Buffy/Angel characters. Are there similarities, yes. But Mal is no completed Angel. Nor is River a finished Buffy. You can compare them, but I think in the end they are more different than the same.

***************
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw

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Thursday, November 9, 2006 8:21 AM

DEEPGIRL187

Quote:
Originally posted by laoshi:
Anyway I'll just sit in a corner and be wrong in my wrongness.

I didn't mean to completely shoot you down. You do have some really valid points. Not to mention you're trying to support our show. Engaging discussions are what makes this site great. So please don't stay huddled in the corner.

*************************************************

"So long and goodnight."

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Thursday, November 9, 2006 2:04 PM

LAOSHI

Ok maybe prototype is overstating it. We could say that a lot of the character traits have been carried over to firefly from the Buffy verse. Joss remains interested in some of the same kinds of relationship. For example one of my favourites is Mal/River. I was actually comparing River to Fred rather than Buffy. There are many parallels between Mal/River and Angel/Fred. I'm thinking mostly about the craziness/smartness here. Fred and River are both geniuses who have been driven insane. In both cases they are saved by the brooding hero who feels very protective because of how vulnerable they are. Both of them manage to overcome the terrible things that have been done to them. Although if Joss ever kills River off I will never speak to him again.(Not that he speaks to me now) Fred develops a bit of a crush on Angel to begin with and I know there are some Mal/River 'shippers who think the same is happening with River.
I kind of take it as read that my unshakeable belief in my own rightness and my obssessive need to win will carry me through most arguments. My family have over many generations refined pedantry into an artform. I'll keep arguing long after everyone else wants to move on. There will be no hiding in corners.

Alliance n. In international politics, the union of two thieves who have their hands so deeply inserted in each other's pocket that they cannot separately plunder a third. -Ambrose Bierce

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Friday, November 17, 2006 5:17 AM

ZORPRIME01

Wow, except for #6 I think I agree with everything you just said! :)

"If wishes were horses, we'd all be eatin' steak." - Jayne

"Looks like wishes are horses today." - Spike

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Friday, November 17, 2006 5:21 AM

ZORPRIME01

To clarify, I didn't completely disagree with everything you said in #6. I have often thought that Angel and Mal seemed quite similar in character, and the tone of their writing and way the actors play them are also similar.

"If wishes were horses, we'd all be eatin' steak." - Jayne

"Looks like wishes are horses today." - Spike

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Friday, November 17, 2006 5:40 AM

LAOSHI

Yeah I meant in a broad sense. i just don't want to do another Jayne/Gunn thing.

Alliance n. In international politics, the union of two thieves who have their hands so deeply inserted in each other's pocket that they cannot separately plunder a third. -Ambrose Bierce

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Friday, November 17, 2006 6:07 AM

PIRATECAT

This is really good tv which we have not seen in decades. The writing is as top notch as Rockford Files. This show is way beyond the buffy verse. Ron Glass has been in 2 of the best shows ever, Barny Miller was a huge success. If you take variety shows out of the picture. This is what you have Lucy Ball, Dick Van Dyke show, Mary Tyler Moore, 2 mentioned above, Magnum, Cheers, Star Trek os, Star Gate, Babylon 5, Bonanza, and Alias Smith and Jones. You look back on tv theirs is not that many. Magnum was a spinoff of Rockford Files the only show that starts off with a different phone recording, classic. Also alot the same actors have success in makin a great show. Firefly put the right people at the right time together. You can't replace the best. Look at Capt. Kirk we don't see that he is Bald, Fat, and very Old. He is still James T. to us. TJ Hooker was good. Or who could forget Col Steve Austin as the Fall Guy. The original Angel is Rockford's side kick who can forget Jim Bo, Jimmy Son, Rockfish come on.

Your move. That's a bold move. I live on the edge. Nice work dumb ass.

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