The Importance of Feedback by browncoatjim

BLUE SUN ROOM

The Importance of Feedback

POSTED BY: BROWNCOATJIM
UPDATED: Saturday, November 4, 2006 20:17
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 5256
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Wednesday, October 25, 2006 1:08 PM

If someone takes the time, energy, thought, and effort to put a piece of fanfic together, or a banner, video, or any other somesuch, does it really take so much effort out of your life to leave a little feedback?

I just posted a fanfic "'Verse of the Dead" a FF salute to George A Romero (it's halloween, what the hell!)and what started out as a fun little bit of crossover took a sudden turn towards the end, and became deadly serious, something even I, the auther, never really saw coming.

Now, over 100 people have looked at it so far. Of course, that doesn't mean all those people read it, I know (becuase I am guilty of this too) you open something, and it turns out to be longer than you really want to commit yourself to. This I understand. But what I don't understand, what I get kind of sideways about, is that out of all the people who opened my fic, no one could bother leaving a feedback. Even a "This sucks, and this is why--" is great! At least I learn something.

It's a simple bit of courtesy, and not too terribly much to ask, in my opinion.

Simon: "Were there any Feds?"
mal: "No, no Feds, just an honest brawl between folk."

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Wednesday, October 25, 2006 1:20 PM

NVGHOSTRIDER

As a fic contributor (not here, yet) I find that feedback is key to certain aspects of further idea development. My piece is a hand written manuscript that was turned into a very raw tele/sceen play and seems to be getting some good mileage (908 reads in seven weeks) and helps me develop ideas for the actual manuscript. Finding the posatives and negatives also helps the piece develop. It really helps when you have fellow contributors commenting on each others pieces.
Feedback. More please. Just an idea.

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Thursday, October 26, 2006 3:29 AM

HISGOODGIRL

Just a gal out on the rim writing tales.

Hey browncoatjim,

I totally understand your frustration and concur. I've been posting fanfic here for almost a year and during that time, have noted a significant decrease in the number of readers willing to take the time to offer their comments and suggestions.

This shift seemed to become more pronounced when the site was down for an extended period around Serenity Day last summer and also when the Admin/PowersThatBe made it impossible for anyone to post annonymously. I'm guessing the latter step was taken because some folks had been leaving comments on some writers' stories that were unnecessarily meanspirited and nasty (as opposed to thoughtful and constructive.)

While I put a tremendous amount of thought and effort into my stories, the observations and suggestions of others helps me become a better writer. Writing and posting to no feedback is like performing an aria and having no one in the audience respond. As an artist, I'm hoping for a reaction, I'm hoping to connect with someone else. And if no one comments, I'll never know whether I managed to make that connection or not.

So yeah - like you, I really wish that readers would just say SOMETHING.

What did you love? What didn't work? Where did I get the voicing right or wrong? Would I be better off to put the story in a different tense or write it from another character's perspective.

PLEASE, Gentle Readers, just leave the author a little comment or suggestion. It's the only pay-off they'll get.

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Thursday, October 26, 2006 4:35 AM

SHINYTRINKET

I too love feedback! I can't wait, after I post a chapter, to check back later and see who's commented on what! I also enjoy leaving feedback for others, knowing how much I enjoy getting it.

I, for one, am glad we can't leave anonymous remarks; it's too easy to just be snarky without taking responsibility for your reasons.

*************************************************
The 3 rules of aging:
1. Never bypass a bathroom
2. Never waste an erection
3. Never trust a fart

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Thursday, October 26, 2006 5:14 AM

ZEEK

Well I can't say I'm a fanfic fan, but I don't think you have any right to get upset. You're volunteering to write fanfic. No one is holding a gun to your head. In the same right no one is required to give you feedback. They didn't ask you to write it. They don't owe you anything. If you don't enjoy writing your fanfic then don't do it. Don't write it just to get attention though. You'll just set yourself up for disappointment.

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Thursday, October 26, 2006 5:35 AM

AGENTROUKA

Quote:
Originally posted by hisgoodgirl:
What did you love? What didn't work? Where did I get the voicing right or wrong? Would I be better off to put the story in a different tense or write it from another character's perspective.

PLEASE, Gentle Readers, just leave the author a little comment or suggestion. It's the only pay-off they'll get.

I understand the need to get a reaction. I've written myself, and while I write mainly because I feel the burning need to, I post my stories in public fora to get a reaction from others.

However, that reaction is a generous kindness, not a duty. You can't expect someone to give that to you. They didn't ask you to write - nor me, which is why I don't complain when I get no feedback. It's like complaining that you didn't get presents for Christmas - an understandable case of bad manners.

Feedback is what you get when you have managed to inspire the reader to leave it.

If you utterly want and need commentary on your style or technique or plot coherence, kindly ask someone to be your beta-reader. Those are your real critics. Or post your story in a forum focused on the actual process of writing.

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Thursday, October 26, 2006 6:16 AM

MAVOURNEEN

I'm riding the fence here...I'm one of those people who looks at the bottom of the fic, and uses the comment area to judge whether or not I want to invest my time in that piece. I also use the rating number, length, and beginning paragraphs to determine whether I'm going to continue.

When I was writing, I appreciated feedback, both positive and negative tagged to my work. I have gotten much more personal "satisfaction" from posting my off site email address, and asking for comments. I received several really great emails which both encouraged me AND gave constructive criticism.

I find myself leaning more towards the "Don't write to expect feedback" side of things. One of my stories has nearly 1,000 views, yet only 4 comments. It's rated very well, so I have no worries that I wrote complete dreck.

Write to satisfy your inner urge to make the 'Verse continue. If you write for feedback, you'll be sorely disappointed.
From my experience, that's not just here at fff.net, but also on fanfiction.net, and other fic sites.

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Thursday, October 26, 2006 1:00 PM

SHINYTRINKET

Quote:
Originally posted by AgentRouka:
However, that reaction is a generous kindness, not a duty.

Feedback is what you get when you have managed to inspire the reader to leave it.

Oh, absolutely! That's why I'm delighted when I get feedback. I would never consider it someone's duty to leave comments, but I'm touched when someone cares enough to take the time to do so.

*************************************************
The 3 rules of aging:
1. Never bypass a bathroom
2. Never waste an erection
3. Never trust a fart

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Friday, October 27, 2006 3:23 AM

BROWNCOATJIM

[guote]no one is required to give you feedback. They didn't ask you to write it. They don't owe you anything.

Quote:

You're right, no in is required to do anything. No one is required to fot the bill for this website. No one is required to set things up the way they have. You're right, no one is required to do anything.

But the next time you are sitting on that side street, trying to pull onto a main road, and no one will give you a break, and you're ready to go completely sideways about it, just remember, no one is required to give you a break. That is something that people do purely out of common decency. We all remember that, don't we? Doing something for someone not because we are required to, but just because it's a decent thing to do?

The idea of not doing a single thing unless we are required to by law, contract, or whatever is, of course, the prevailing sentiment in our society, and look at all the good it has done for us.

Simon: "Were there any Feds?"
mal: "No, no Feds, just an honest brawl between folk."

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Friday, October 27, 2006 3:24 AM

BROWNCOATJIM

Not to double post, but I did that backwards.........oops

Simon: "Were there any Feds?"
mal: "No, no Feds, just an honest brawl between folk."

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Friday, October 27, 2006 3:54 AM

AGENTROUKA

Quote:
Originally posted by browncoatjim:
But the next time you are sitting on that side street, trying to pull onto a main road, and no one will give you a break, and you're ready to go completely sideways about it, just remember, no one is required to give you a break. That is something that people do purely out of common decency. We all remember that, don't we? Doing something for someone not because we are required to, but just because it's a decent thing to do?

The idea of not doing a single thing unless we are required to by law, contract, or whatever is, of course, the prevailing sentiment in our society, and look at all the good it has done for us.

Geez.

This isn't traffic or human beings in need of help. This is writing fiction, in your free time, about the characters of a tv show that doesn't belong to you. A hobby, at best. Human society isn't going to fall apart over it.

There's the kind of common decency that keeps the world going round, but I don't consider feedback part of it.

Feedback is a gift from the reader to the author. A gift of thought and attention that they make if you have given them something worth doing so.

You don't expect or demand gifts and then complain that you didn't get them, not when you're over the age of ten and have learned some manners.

Gifts are something to be grateful for, and I'm kind of missing that about your attitude.

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Friday, October 27, 2006 4:07 AM

BROWNCOATJIM

You missed the point, i think......

I was responding to the attitude of "I am not required to, so why should I?" You don't want to, that's fine....say so; you don't want to be bothered, that's fine too, just say so

Maybe I am preaching to the wrong chior (which is really not what I am trying to do, please believe me on that).....it was just the callousness of the "I will do exactly what I have to, and not one bit more" attitude that rubbed me wrong......forgive the editorializing, but I just couldn't keep my mouth shut.

No offense meant, sincerely.

Simon: "Were there any Feds?"
mal: "No, no Feds, just an honest brawl between folk."

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Friday, October 27, 2006 4:19 AM

AGENTROUKA

Quote:
Originally posted by browncoatjim:
You missed the point, i think......

I was responding to the attitude of "I am not required to, so why should I?"

I think our points are both not so far apart that they'd miss each other, really.

I don't disagree with your digust about this attitude in general, but I simply think that it doesn't apply in the case of feedback.

In your opening post you said something to the effect that giving feedback is a simple courtesy and not terribly much to ask of a person, and I disagree with that.
You imply that it's discourteous not to leave feedback and that not leaving it is somewhat selfish. You're actively complaining about not getting feedback, really, and I consider that rude.

Feedback isn't a simple courtesy. It's something you earn, not something you're entitled to. When people say they don't owe it to you, it's not just a way of justifying laziness, it's a truth and a way of calling you greedy.

Earn your feedback and be grateful for it when you get it, and don't imply that people are selfish if they don't feel inspired to feedback you. (The general 'you'.)

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Saturday, October 28, 2006 7:46 AM

BORNTOFLY

Just my two cents...

I agree that feedback is a courtesy given, not a courtesy expected. No on is under any obligation whatsoever to give feedback.

But I personally try to give feedback at every opportunity. The way I see it, if fanfic is a hobby, then the author is under no obligation to post it. They have written the work for their own enjoyment.
IF they choose to post it, they typically do it for two reasons: The first would be for feedback, whether positive or negative, and usually not for ego stroking. They are taking the risk of putting their work in a public forum. That's a daunting proposition for many, as writing (no matter the subject) is a deeply personal thing. Lack of feedback is discouraging. Feedback or any kind is encouraging, it let's you know your work is appreciated, or unappreciated, and shows that people value your efforts.
The second is for the readers enjoyment and pleasure (or displeasure, the words could burn your eyes, whatever).

In my experience talking to fanfic writers, these two reasons are almost never exclusive of one another.

I said before that if fanfic is a hobby, then the author is under no obligation to post it. That they have written the work for their own enjoyment. The author has taken the courtesy and effort to post it for me to read and enjoy (or not). That courtesy deserves to be repaid.

Feedback, whether negative or positive, is not expected.

It's common decency.

There's a whole bunch of points that can be argued against in my ramble of a 'two cents', but it's 4:44am, and I'm too damn tired to proofread what I just wrote.

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Saturday, October 28, 2006 12:56 PM

RAINSTICK

i think feedback is very important to the authors. i haven't read that much fanfic yet, but I have tried to make the occasional comment. as for my own writing, I only get feedback from one person (BlueEyedBrigadier whom i'd like to thank for that), but it would really be helpful to know from more people if they actually like what i write or whether i'm totally missing something in my characterisations or plot development. i guess other authors think similarly. why you might not like every comment you get, it helps you get a perspective.

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Monday, October 30, 2006 6:02 AM

LEIASKY

Feedback is not an entitlement. Readers are not required to leave it for an author. Sure, we love getting feedback. Constructive feedback is even better for a lot of people. Some authors say they want feedback but then whine and complain when its not always positive. Every person is different.

I only leave feedback if a story has left an impression - even if it was a bad one.

"A government is a body of people usually notably ungoverned."

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Saturday, November 4, 2006 8:17 PM

LOLAINCONTROL

As a lurker (and used-to-be fanfic writer

) feedback was great and often a lot of fun to recieve, but would you really stop writing without it? Hell no, writing fan fic is far too much fun to quit, feedback or no, so therefore I consider it optional

(ahem, imho...)

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