BLUE SUN ROOM

Heart of Gold, Where is it?

POSTED BY: NCBROWNCOAT
UPDATED: Monday, June 16, 2014 17:17
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Friday, June 19, 2009 3:36 PM

NCBROWNCOAT


On what moon/planet is the Heart of Gold located? I can't remember if it's named in the episode.

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Friday, June 19, 2009 4:16 PM

BYTEMITE


Can't find any reference in the script itself, but going by episode order, it's got to be close to St. Alban's, where they delivered Tracey in the Message.

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Friday, June 19, 2009 7:00 PM

NCBROWNCOAT

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Friday, June 19, 2009 8:02 PM

BYTEMITE


Some planets and their moons in the same rough system (red sun) as St. Albans, according to the white papers:

Jiangyin (moons: Tongyi, Dangun, Rhildore)

New Melbourne (moons: Maria, Destiny)

Greenleaf (moons: Dyton, Agyar, Bryson's Rock)

Harvest (moons: Faraday, Higgin's Moon)

St. Albans (moon: Pi Gu)

Anson's world (moons: Spiders, Varley, Steele)

Around Helioformed gas giant Himinbjorg in the same system:

Aesir (moons: Bestla, Borr, Odin)

Moab (moons: Red Rock, Mesa)

Brisingamen (moons: Freya, Alberich, Beowulf)

Around Helioformed gas giant Heinlein in the same system:

Triumph (moon: Mycroft)

Paquin (moons: Shinbone, Clawthorn)

Lazarus (moon: Dora)

Silverhold (moon: Beggar's Tin)

Not terraformed: Jubilee (moon: covenant), Anvil (moon: Hammer).

Pretty much any of those would probably work, whichever name you think is most fitting. But, you might not want to choose the first planet around a star/gas giant, because either the list is ordered by population, or the nearest stars to their sun were terrformed first, because they have the highest populations.

It may also be possible that the moon is in the last stages of terraforming, because Nandi talks about Rance Burgess turning the moon into "a gorramn theme park."

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Friday, June 19, 2009 9:04 PM

RIVERDANCER


Quote:

Originally posted by Bytemite:
Can't find any reference in the script itself, but going by episode order, it's got to be close to St. Alban's, where they delivered Tracey in the Message.


Since the Message was actually the last episode filmed, and even if it weren't there have been episodes with enough days between them to take a fair trek across the solar system or at least smuggle little geisha dolls with big heads that wobble, I find your logic here to be flawed.
This particular sphere is never given a name or even a general location. All we know is that it's rim, far from the Alliance and the Guild. The town isn't even really named, as far as I remember. Pretty blank slate, setting-wise. Since this is a really and true straight-up western story, I'd at least give the town an old-west name, personally. Don't know about the planet/moon itself.

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Saturday, June 20, 2009 4:15 AM

NCBROWNCOAT


Thanks for the ideas about the location of the Heart of Gold. I had an idea about how to finally finish a fic that's been on my laptop for almost 9 months.

I was exercising yesterday afternoon in the 90 degree heat and I thought of the Heart of Gold. Must have been inspired by the heat.

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Saturday, June 20, 2009 5:37 AM

BYTEMITE


The Message was reordered from the original order. Even still, original order or new order, The Message would have been one episode before or after Heart of Gold.

As you said, it can take weeks to get from one system to another. The Serenity movie took place ENTIRELY within one system.

Also, something that has to be asked is where would someone pick up or deliver bobble-headed dolls? Persephone, possible, because maybe they were coming out from Bellepheron with the Lassiter for the Rim, and they do tend to stop there. They could also have gotten them or dropped them off at Paquin, because Paquin is kind of a world that would fit that profile.

I'm merely trying to narrow things down.

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Saturday, June 20, 2009 7:01 AM

RIVERDANCER


Quote:

Originally posted by Bytemite:
The Serenity movie took place ENTIRELY within one system.


That's because there is only one system. "Dozens of planets and hundreds of moons." This is far from the most scientifically believable thing on the show, but the canon is a vast solar system with terraformed worlds, "more than seventy Earths" as Mal says in one cut scene. The central planets form the Alliance. The border is developed and civilized, but not so much as the core is. The rim is more wild, kinda frontier territory, with less development. Except Miranda, of course. That's the setup as it's been laid out for us. Distances are kind of a funny thing there, too. When they fly under the radar, it takes a week to get where they could get in less than a day. We know it takes three weeks to get from Persephone to Jiangyin, but is that below radar or not? When they're taking more straight shots in the movie, seems to take them almost no time at all to get from planet to planet. They're probably all rim, maybe some border, but still. Few hours, less than a day, times I associate more with road trips than interplanetary travels. And there's never mention of how long it took them to get to Ariel in that episode, but I doubt it was anywhere near anyplace they'd been previously, and especially anywhere near where they were in Out of Gas when they were doing their under the radar thing.

Quote:

I'm merely trying to narrow things down.


Which I totally get. And if you want to say that Nandi and Co weren't too far from St. Albans, well it could be that's the case. All I'm saying is that time and distance in the verse can leave a whole lot of wiggle room, and you can't make too many assumptions about the locations that aren't named. This can give you a lot of freedom as a writer, but that can be frustrating when you're writing in someone else's world. Or solar system.

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Saturday, June 20, 2009 7:20 AM

BYTEMITE


Actually, we do have some idea of how long it can take to get some places. We have an approximate idea of how fast a Firefly can go, as well. At full burn, Serenity's speed has been calculated at about 35% of light speed.

We also know, according to some VERY brief screens in the movie Serenity, that there are multiple suns in the system (stars can orbit each other) so there's an overall system with all the suns, but sub-systems around each sun. Between planets in one subsystem, or one solar system, it takes only a few days travel (or to a moon, a few hours).

The White Papers explain this. I can also try to find the thread here where the calculations were made.

EDIT: http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=4&t=38693

So two ways of looking at it. If Heart of Gold happens after the Message... Not knowing how long has passed since The Message, but considering the only real job Mal has had since then was the wobble-headed dolls, I don't think they've gotten far.

If Heart of Gold has taken place between Trash and The Message (original order), then the crew has flown from Bellepheron out to the Rim. I don't recall mention of work in either The Message or Objects in Space, so it seems like the wobble head dolls are STILL the only job they've had. And considering the problem of fueling up, and how every time they hit planet side they seem to talk about it, my suspicion is they STILL wouldn't have gone far in that case.

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Saturday, June 20, 2009 8:02 AM

RIVERDANCER


Knowing layouts and how fast the ship can go is fantastic stuff, but I still think without more detail of the actual timeline, not just where the episode falls but how long it's been since (in my mind) the job in Trash... which itself must have had a bit of time before it we didn't see, since there was the wobble-headed doll job and then all the small dirty slum jobs Inara was complaining about up til whatever the job with Monty was... I got off track, but anyway, without more clear info the Heart of Gold Brothel could be just about anywhere. I'd bet it's rim, and probably bet it's a moon, but aside from that I wouldn't bet anything. You could easily be right, maybe it's close to St. Albans. Or maybe it's close to the floating space bazaar with the post office we see at the beginning of the Message. Maybe it's near the corner of No and Where. I think you could easily pick any of those things, or someplace farther off, and debatably have some backup in the canon. It's kind of cool, like I said, to have the freedom, but I understand the frustration of the people who ponder and debate and agonize for days about the location of the Training House in the movie, or Kaylee's home planet, or the Heart of Gold. I love it, really, because it shows fic writers are thinking about their work and it's likely to be an enjoyable read, no matter what location they end up settling on.

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Monday, June 22, 2009 10:55 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Orig sequence is WS, HoG, OiS, Trash, Message.
Resequence is WS, Trash, Message, Hog, Ois.
Serenity BDM took place in Blue Sun and Kalidasa Systems, and just outside Georgia system, according to Map of the Verse.
There are 5 systems in the verse: Core (White Sun), Georgia, Red, kalidasa, Blue.

Message ended at St Ablans, but started 2 days away, which is halfway across the verse (takes 5.5 days to cross the verse).
War Stories was Ezra, center of Georgia System (opposite from St Albans.)
No narrowing down data was given in HoG.

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Wednesday, June 24, 2009 12:11 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by RiverDancer:
Knowing layouts and how fast the ship can go is fantastic stuff, but I still think without more detail of the actual timeline, not just where the episode falls but how long it's been since (in my mind) the job in Trash... which itself must have had a bit of time before it we didn't see, since there was the wobble-headed doll job and then all the small dirty slum jobs Inara was complaining about up til whatever the job with Monty was... I got off track, but anyway, without more clear info the Heart of Gold Brothel could be just about anywhere. I'd bet it's rim, and probably bet it's a moon, but aside from that I wouldn't bet anything. You could easily be right, maybe it's close to St. Albans. Or maybe it's close to the floating space bazaar with the post office we see at the beginning of the Message. Maybe it's near the corner of No and Where. I think you could easily pick any of those things, or someplace farther off, and debatably have some backup in the canon. It's kind of cool, like I said, to have the freedom, but I understand the frustration of the people who ponder and debate and agonize for days about the location of the Training House in the movie, or Kaylee's home planet, or the Heart of Gold. I love it, really, because it shows fic writers are thinking about their work and it's likely to be an enjoyable read, no matter what location they end up settling on.


Your Q about Trash time. It was said Trash is 3 weeks since thier last job. This is after OiS (no job), which was after HoG (no job, really), which was after War Stories (no job, still selling off Ariel meds), which was after Ariel (Hospitol job). Perhaps the woobly dolls were after Ariel.
Have you not read the timelines? Which part of listing the periods of time for the episodes do you feel is not included?

Obviously, with many people assuming each episode would generally consume one week, and only needed 5.5 days to completely cross the verse, it is difficult to specify a setting without further data from script or visuals, background, etc.

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Friday, September 4, 2009 12:50 AM

TENTHCREWMEMBER

Could you please just make it stranger? Stranger. Odder. Could be weirder. More bizarre. How about uncanny?


Just do what I do:

Make stuff up and if Joss has a problem with it, he'll let you know.



Seriously. While detailed, the Firefly 'verse is considerably undefined, and subject to interpretation, as you've seen above. Everyone is a little right, and a little wrong, and that's okay. It's sci-fi/fantasy/western...it can be whatever you want. Do what feels right and let your story be told.



BWAH!
TCM


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*Download my Firefly Games for FREE at
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Sunday, September 6, 2009 9:15 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by ncbrowncoat:
On what moon/planet is the Heart of Gold located? I can't remember if it's named in the episode.



In the event the OP is still looking for input, and/or to continue the discussion....

In the originally scripted, filmed, and produced sequence, HoG is after War Stories and before Objects in Space. War Stories ends after leaving Niska's Skyplex orbiting Ezra, the nearest orbit to Georgia Sun. Objects in Space starts off heading to New Melbourne, and they are 4 days away. New Melbourne is the 2nd orbiter of Red Sun, which is on the opposite side of the verse from Georgia Sun - about 70 hours travel time at Serenity's maximum accel/decel rate.
Because Trash specifies that they have had no jobs in 3 weeks, and Serenity can travel the entire breadth of the verse in 5.5 days, we can speculate that they are at a more lackadaisical pacing, not burning gobs of fuel at every opportunity, and travelling slower.
To be clear, from the end of WS to the start of OiS, Serenity could have crossed the verse several times in that time span.
But if they were in no hurry to leave Georgia System after WS, they may still be in Georgia System at the start of OiS, and we could speculate they were puttering around Georgia when HoG occurred.
It is clear Serenity was NOT in Red Sun System at the beginning of OiS. But that does not mean they were not in Red Sun a week or so prior, during HoG.

In the resequenced version of events, HoG happens after Message and again before OiS. Message ends on St Ablans, which is also in the Red Sun system. Because they are not in Red Sun at the start of OiS, it seems clear that this would mean they went to another system. Georgia is on the opposite side of the verse, Blue Sun is farther away than Georgia, but Kalidasa is close. Even though OiS starts outside Red Sun system, this does not mean they had already left Red Sun before HoG occurred.

In either case, Inara complained about lack of work, and it seems clear Serenity did not visit the Core during this time period.

I have not provided you with a clearcut answer, because there is none. Perhaps the discussion of possibilities has helped you fit into the events as you conjure them. Sorry for the delay in answer.

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Monday, June 16, 2014 5:00 PM

FEMMEFAN1946


First we have to think three dimensionally. The Verse is not like our Solar System which is (basically ) all on one plane.
There is a Map of the Verse with movement that makes this clear..... and I can't find it.Darn.
Nope. Here it is!
http://www.koenhendrix.com/samples/solar/

I think we can make some guesses about the location of Heart of Gold by looking for a moon, not a planet, recently terraformed, and with a low population. It would be Rim, of course. But if one man can afford to own/run it , it can't be much bigger or more populous than Higgin's Moon.

I've been writing a fanfic taking the crew on the New Canaan Run, and I don't see either the Heart of Gold moon or Kaylee's home world on any part of the planets and moons described.
But, I would stake a potted rosemary bush against a small goslng, that Wash comes from Hastur, a moon of Beaumonde so heavily polluted that ships have to be decontaminated before leaving. And Beaumonde is no prize either.
The New Canaan Run by JoseMolina is covered by the Atlas of the Verse: Volume One. I got my copy on eBay for about $25.

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Monday, June 16, 2014 5:17 PM

THGRRI

May the Good Lord take a liking to you... but not too soon!


Quote:

Originally posted by ncbrowncoat:
Thanks for the ideas about the location of the Heart of Gold. I had an idea about how to finally finish a fic that's been on my laptop for almost 9 months.

I was exercising yesterday afternoon in the 90 degree heat and I thought of the Heart of Gold. Must have been inspired by the heat.

http://fireflyfaninnc.livejournal.com/










If it truly is nameless and you discovered that to be the case, don't you get the honor of naming it?

si shen



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