Another one close to my heart, and given our recent discussion of connections between people and animals, one I found interesting. I posted footage befor..."/>
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REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS
Are Dolphins also persons?
Wednesday, February 24, 2010 8:36 AM
NIKI2
Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...
Quote:If Dolphins Are So Intelligent, Some Scientists Ask Why They're Kept in Aquariums Scientists who have studied the remarkable lives of dolphins have found themselves in a bit of an ethical quagmire. There seems to be little doubt now that dolphins are surprisingly intelligent, know who they are as individuals, and engage in cultural traditions that can be passed on to succeeding generations. In short, they are a lot like humans. So, should they be treated as "persons"? Should they be recognized as fellow travelers on this planet, rather than captive exhibitionists or laboratory specimens? Leaders in the field held a standing-room-only symposium last Sunday in San Diego during the annual convention of the American Association for the Advancement of Science, and they got an earful. "The response was very much divided," Lori Marino, a neuroscientist and animal behaviorist at Emory University said in a telephone interview. Marino was a co-investigator in a convincing experiment that showed in 2001 how dolphins are incredibly self-aware, returning to a mirror over and over again to check out their bodies. Determining animal intelligence is a thorny problem, even if the animals are somewhat like ourselves. But it's especially difficult if the animals are very different from us, and live in a world that is unlike ours, but clearly have active minds. Some Say Dolphins Should Be Considered 'Non-Human Persons' Do other animals ponder the stars and wonder about the universe? Probably not. But research shows that dolphins can at least think about the future. Findings like that have led some distinguished scientists and ethicists to suggest we need to rethink our role as humans. It turns out we are not alone, and we didn't need to journey into space to find out. Thomas I. White of the Oxford Centre for Animal Ethics and Loyola Marymount University in Los Angeles told the AAAS session that dolphins should be regarded as "non-human persons," a phrase that has caught on among some scientists. "Like humans, dolphins appear to be self-conscious, unique individuals with distinctive personalities, memories and a sense of self, who are vulnerable to a wide range of physical and emotional pain and harm, and who have the power to reflect upon and choose their actions," White told an audience that lingered long after the session had ended because participants wanted to discuss the issue further.
Wednesday, February 24, 2010 8:49 AM
CHRISISALL
Wednesday, February 24, 2010 9:01 AM
RAHLMACLAREN
"Damn yokels, can't even tell a transport ship ain't got no guns on it." - Jayne Cobb
Wednesday, February 24, 2010 9:08 AM
HERO
Quote:Originally posted by Niki2: I posted footage before of them making those rings to play with, and there's another of them flipping jellyfish as a sort of "ball". So the question becomes:Quote:If Dolphins Are So Intelligent, Some Scientists Ask Why They're Kept in Aquariums
Quote:If Dolphins Are So Intelligent, Some Scientists Ask Why They're Kept in Aquariums
Wednesday, February 24, 2010 11:14 AM
FREMDFIRMA
Wednesday, February 24, 2010 12:14 PM
BYTEMITE
Quote:Do other animals ponder the stars and wonder about the universe? Probably not.
Wednesday, February 24, 2010 12:57 PM
Wednesday, February 24, 2010 2:00 PM
SIGNYM
I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.
Wednesday, February 24, 2010 2:20 PM
Quote:Originally posted by Niki2: "Person' seems weird to me.
Wednesday, February 24, 2010 2:58 PM
Thursday, February 25, 2010 8:20 AM
MINCINGBEAST
Thursday, February 25, 2010 8:48 AM
Thursday, February 25, 2010 12:01 PM
Quote:I don't think we CAN come up with an appropriate test for intelligence. I don't think we're able to imagine a relevant one for another species, so we can't accurately measure what we would consider "intelligence" in other than our own species.
Thursday, February 25, 2010 12:29 PM
RUE
I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!
Thursday, February 25, 2010 12:59 PM
PIRATENEWS
John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!
Thursday, February 25, 2010 1:12 PM
AURAPTOR
America loves a winner!
Thursday, February 25, 2010 1:39 PM
KWICKO
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)
Quote:Originally posted by Bytemite: Quote:I don't think we CAN come up with an appropriate test for intelligence. I don't think we're able to imagine a relevant one for another species, so we can't accurately measure what we would consider "intelligence" in other than our own species. Yep. We have a heard enough time determining and measuring intelligence in our own species. There is often very deliberate bias towards individuals from the very same specific demographic making the test. I expect human bias towards animals is the same story taken to ten.
Thursday, February 25, 2010 2:13 PM
Thursday, February 25, 2010 2:52 PM
Quote:Originally posted by Bytemite: Actually, I only said ten because I didn't think it was taken up to eleven. But that does imply a presumption of ten being a standard range.
Thursday, February 25, 2010 4:01 PM
Friday, February 26, 2010 7:46 AM
Quote:We have a heard enough time determining and measuring intelligence in our own species. There is often very deliberate bias towards individuals from the very same specific demographic making the test. I expect human bias towards animals is the same story taken to ten.
Quote:Much has been made of the fact that people have hands with opposable thumbs, and that this tool-making ability led to human intelligence
Friday, February 26, 2010 8:06 AM
JONGSSTRAW
Friday, February 26, 2010 8:19 AM
Saturday, February 27, 2010 7:08 AM
HKCAVALIER
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