I watched angrily as the Dems watered down the health reform bill time and time again, usually at the behest of Obama's dream of "bipartisanship" and bli..."/>

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Are Dems growing some balls?

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Monday, April 26, 2010 08:20
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 884
PAGE 1 of 1

Friday, April 23, 2010 7:45 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


I watched angrily as the Dems watered down the health reform bill time and time again, usually at the behest of Obama's dream of "bipartisanship" and blind to the fact that there would BE none, no matter what they did. So I'd like it if they stepped up to the plate this time on financial reform and called the idiotic lies of the kind that did so much damage last time. Maybe it's starting to happen...
Quote:

Senate Democrats called out Republicans on Thursday for what they said was the promotion of "falsehoods" on the financial reform bill and vowed to move the bill forward.

Republican leadership has "decided the best way to stop it ... is by polluting the debate with myths and mischaracterizations," Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid said at a news conference after President Obama's speech on financial reform in New York.

"I'm not going to waste any more time. ... If they let us go to it, we'll be happy to start debate," Reid said. "The games are over."

The Senate's financial reform bill would set up new regulatory oversight of the financial industry's practices with the goal of preventing another Wall Street meltdown like the one in 2008 that launched the U.S. recession.

Approved by the Senate's Banking and Agricultural committees, the bill includes an "early warning" system intended to spot signs of another crisis, as well as a $50 billion liquidation fund created with money from banks and other finance industry corporations to ensure an orderly transition in closing down failing entities.

On Thursday, Reid filed a motion to end debate on the bill, setting up that vote for Monday. The expected outcome of the vote is too close to call.

Reid said Democrats are willing to work with Republicans if they are earnest about pushing the bill forward.

Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell shot back at Reid's claims, saying on the Senate floor, "here we go again."

"The majority leader is once again moving to a bill, even while bipartisan discussions on the content of the bill are still under way," he said, referring to the health care bill that was recently signed into law.

The Kentucky Republican criticized Democrats and the White House for "ramming" health care reform down Americans' throats.

He said it's important to take the time to get the bill right and said discussions should continue.

"Now, I think Americans expect more of us. I think they expect us to take the time to do it right."

But Democrats say the lesson they learned from the health care debate was to push back immediately against false claims.

Sen. Chuck Schumer, D-New York, said Democrats let too many health care reform "lies" go unchallenged.

"On the health care bill, we allow too many lies to get out there without rebuttal because we thought they were so obviously untrue. But we've learned our lesson," he said.

His solution: "The minute these things come out the mouths of some of our Republican colleagues, we rebut them, and we rebut them again and again."

In the meantime, Sens. Richard Shelby, R-Alabama, and Chris Dodd, chairman of the Banking Committee, say they will continue negotiations over their differences in the bill.

They do so as Democratic leaders warn that the talks may be nothing more than a stalling tactic by Republicans furious that their rivals are rushing the bill to the floor just as bipartisan talks are showing signs of life.

At one point during Reid's news conference Thursday, a video was played, highlighting what Democrats see as GOP misinformation.

In the video, McConnell said the bill "allows for tax-funded bailout for Wall Street banks. It institutionalizes them. ... It provides for an endless taxpayer bailout of Wall Street banks."

Sen. Dick Durbin, the second highest-ranking Senate Democrat, denied that there is any bailout provision in the Senate's bill.

"The taxpayers don't pay for any part of this, and at the end of it, the company is gone," he said. "There's nothing to bail out."

House Minority Leader John Boehner, in responding to Obama's speech, continued to insist that the bill is a bailout.

"While the president says he wants to reform Wall Street, the bill we have in front of us will actually provide permanent bailouts for Wall Streets and enshrine 'too big to fail,' " he said.

A video of Sen. Jon Kyl was also played in which the Arizona Republican talked about how consumer protection parts of the bill would regulate dentists and even butchers.

"Once again, not true," Schumer said. "The new Consumer Protection Agency will make sure that consumers are getting financial products ... and services that will help them save money or buy a home."

http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/04/22/democrats.financial.reform/inde
x.html?hpt=Sbin


I can't find the video on YouTube, but it was great to watch. I've been gnashing my teeth watching the Repubs parrott Lunz's talking points, that "link it to the bailout" came out of the mouths almost verbatum, and that's just what they showed.

Behner already showed the next tactic in saying that it would give the government power over "the entire private sector"...what bullshit. And of course they're parrotting the old "let's go slowly" line, too.

Here we go again...




"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10

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Friday, April 23, 2010 11:02 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Healthcare reform taught Obama one very important lesson, and in effect did him an enormous favor:

If your opponents (the entire Republican party) aren't going to work with you in good faith on ANYTHING, quit wasting your time and energy trying to mollify them. Instead, turn to your base and ask them what THEY want you to do, since they're the only ones you're ever going to have the support of anyway, and the ones whose support you need to worry most about losing.

So for that valuable lesson, Thank You, Senator McConnell, and Thank You, Congressman Boehner! We won't make the mistake again of asking you what YOU want, you can count on that.

Now, what kind of Supreme Court justice would the progressive wing of American politics like to see appointed? Don't worry, the Republicans really can't offer any real opposition at this point, and they're in for a very large disappointment come November, especially if we can hang Wall Street reform around their necks. Actually, win or lose, we get to hang that one around them like a millstone. We win, that's two for two on major legislation the RepubliCAN'Ts swore they'd kill and then failed to carry through on; we lose, and we hang the protection of Wall Street at the expense of Main Street on them, where it will pull them even further down than they currently are.

A couple months ago, I was worried about the Democrats' chances in November. Now I'm a bit more optimistic; we'll likely lose a few seats still, but it's doubtful we'll lose either chamber.

Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions


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Friday, April 23, 2010 1:28 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Dems are getting more and more desperate as November looms.

And it shows.






Bones: "Don't 'rawr' her!"
Booth: "What? she'rawred' me first."

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Friday, April 23, 2010 1:32 PM

WHOZIT


No they're not, and they're stupid.

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Friday, April 23, 2010 1:54 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


The desperation is completely on the Republican side of the aisle.

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Friday, April 23, 2010 2:09 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
The desperation is completely on the Republican side of the aisle.



I know you are, but what am I ?








Bones: "Don't 'rawr' her!"
Booth: "What? she'rawred' me first."

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Friday, April 23, 2010 2:15 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
The desperation is completely on the Republican side of the aisle.



I know you are, but what am I ?



Seven, apparently.

Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions


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Friday, April 23, 2010 4:54 PM

FREMDFIRMA



And didn't we have this argument October 2008 ?


And didn't you run away and hide under a rock for months and months, like the petulant little child you are ?

My call: Tea Party splits the base, Dems pick up seats.

You watch.

-F

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Saturday, April 24, 2010 2:25 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Fremdfirma:


My call: Tea Party splits the base, Dems pick up seats.

You watch.

-F



Quite possible. Does anyone know if the Tea Party is an actual, legitimate, recognized political party in any of the states? I know many states (Texas and Florida, for example) have state primaries where you must be registered under a particular affiliation to participate. For instance, since I registered as a Democrat, I wasn't eligible to vote in the Republican primary recently - it was open only to registered Republicans. I've heard nothing about any Tea Party primary here.

Now, in the general election, you can vote for whomever you want, but in the primaries, the Tea Party is going to be under-represented (read "UNrepresented") if they aren't open primaries. So how does one get their new political party affiliation to be recognized by the state?

In other words, is the Tea Party an ACTUAL political party at this point? Is it recognized? Do they have a Tea Party National Committee, and a chairman, and a general fund? Or are they just a bunch of loosely-affiliated like-minded souls who call themselves a movement?

The reason I ask is, if there are actual Tea Party candidates, and they win elections, then what? Who do they caucus with? (Don't tell me; let me guess!) Are they their own voting bloc? Do they maintain any real independence, or do they immediately crawl into bed with the other Republicans, and thereby risk showing their true colors? They want someone like me to join them, claiming they aren't with the Republicans and are truly independent, but if they're going to vote in lockstep with the Republicans every single time, then I have to ask: What's the difference? Why should I support them if they're going to vote counter to my interests about 99% of the time?

Lots of questions, I know. But few answers, it seems.

Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions


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Saturday, April 24, 2010 2:29 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Fremdfirma:

And didn't we have this argument October 2008 ?


And didn't you run away and hide under a rock for months and months, like the petulant little child you are ?

My call: Tea Party splits the base, Dems pick up seats.

You watch.

-F



I'm always amused when the petulant little children pretend they're on the moral high ground and call others petulant children.

Dems are going down. That's all there is to it. Watch with all the horror and angst that you can possibly conjure. The TEA Party MOVEMENT is taking over the GOP. There will be no substantive 'split'.






Bones: "Don't 'rawr' her!"
Booth: "What? she'rawred' me first."

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Saturday, April 24, 2010 5:03 AM

FREMDFIRMA



Yeah, that's what you said in October, too.
How's that McCain presidency workin out for ya, then ?

Here's a hint there, skippy - when someone is correct, chapter and verse not only on the softball predictions, but even on the tricky ones, often enough to make MONEY quite consistently on political betting - they're either really good at it, cheating, or know something you do not.

Do you *really* think the vote tallies actually matter so long as they can get them "close enough" now that the "electronic advantage" is in their hands ?

Do you *really* think that an individuals will and vote count so very much when the districts are computer-gerrymandered to prevent exactly that phenomenon ?

Do you *really* think this shit isn't already decided months and months in advance ?

Then again, you prolly think pro wrestling isn't fake either, so really I am just mocking you - cause the harder I can pin you to that railing and wailing, the harder the anvil is gonna fall on your head when you're wrong, at which point you'll either sleaze away again like before, or you'll do the same hissy fit you flamed the dems for - at which point every single little quote you ever made about that will be cast in your face, and here you are playing right into it like a damned fool, just like always.

And *THAT*, Rappy, is why your party of choice is doomed - in programming their little drones like you to jump on command, they never quite realized that anyone ELSE who knows what buttons to push can split them into disconnected factions who will get steamrollered by the Democratic political machine while they're busy clawing at each other over what specific dogma they wanna ram down everyone elses throats, AND they look like complete fools, racists and punks while it happens, blowing what pathetic little credibility they got left to absolute shreds.

Shit man, *I* push your buttons, and I even TELL YOU WHILE I DO IT, and you still jump on command like a good little monkey - and that's what irritates me the most, you and yours aren't even useful *opposition*, just useful idiots who can be wound up for any purpose by someone who knows what buttons to push, and were it not for the saving grace of the complete incompetence of the Democrats, I'd be a lot more concerned about that lack of opposition, but since it'll take em half of forever to get their shit together, first things first...

Push the loose cannons off the deck.

Of course, at this point I am wasting words and I know it, but when you finally sink the rest of the way into the mire of complete irrelevance, I want these words to haunt you, to hound you, to remind you of what could have been, should have been, and wasn't - because of idiots like you, begging their own self destruction rather than accept that not everyone sees the world through the same monstrous level of fear and hate that you do - and I want you to know, utterly and completely, that you have only yourself to blame.

-Frem

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Saturday, April 24, 2010 5:42 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Yes, you are wasting your words, Frem. Except that the rest of us are "listening" and can have viable discussions about what you write. Mike made very cogent points, then the two foul winds came in and started behaving liker recalcitrant children, and it all went to hell. If you'd both ignored them and gone on discussing, it would have been interesting. They have nothing to say, and they're very adept at pushing all your buttons. Bah. That whole long post devoted to nothing but the idiocy they blew at you with a sentence or two. And all of it stuff you've said before, no less.

Mike, I don't think the Tea Party is registered anywhere. I think the states they will get power (if you want to call it that) are the ones in which they can pull enough Republican votes in primaries to oust the Republican candidate...we've already seen it happen. That may well pave the way for Dems to win, we'll have to see.

Crist talks about going Independent, as Rubio has all but locked up the Florida nomination. But as I've been hearing, most Independents end up starting out as gangbusters and then fading into the woodwork, so it doesn't sound like a viable alternative.

I BELIEVE it may be past time to register as a party for November. I certainly could be wrong. But unless they've registered as a party or can turn enough Republican votes in the primary, they're out of luck. Mostly I think they're focused on turning disenfranchised Republicans to help them get candidates registered under that party. But if/when they get one of their ULTRA conservative Tea Partiers on the ballot as a Republican, I think it will turn regular Republicans against them and give Dems the edge.

All we can do is wait and see.

All I know is one of the things they seem to be proudest of is that they're not affiliated with either party--they hate them both, just Republicans less than Democrats, and the only party they can dream of being affiliated with for a primary is the Repub.

I guess I kinda wish 'em luck. The more they show themselves, the more they're going to turn sensible people off...and the more the Republican party cowtows to them, ditto. Lowden and her chicken theory are helping, others are just as far outside the mainstream, which is starting to give Repubs the taint of Tea Party Light. The more they divide that party, the better our chances.

No doubt in states they can't win the primary with their own candidate, they'll vote Republican or (hopefully!) stay home. Here's hoping!

Will be interesting to watch, whatever happens.


"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10

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Saturday, April 24, 2010 7:44 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Seems like those teeeny little balls are growing:
Quote:

Senate Democrats called out Republicans on Thursday for what they said was the promotion of "falsehoods" on the financial reform bill and vowed to move the bill forward.

Republican leadership has "decided the best way to stop it ... is by polluting the debate with myths and mischaracterizations," Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid said at a news conference after President Obama's speech on financial reform in New York.

"I'm not going to waste any more time. ... If they let us go to it, we'll be happy to start debate," Reid said. "The games are over."

The Senate's financial reform bill would set up new regulatory oversight of the financial industry's practices with the goal of preventing another Wall Street meltdown like the one in 2008 that launched the U.S. recession.

Approved by the Senate's Banking and Agricultural committees, the bill includes an "early warning" system intended to spot signs of another crisis, as well as a $50 billion liquidation fund created with money from banks and other finance industry corporations to ensure an orderly transition in closing down failing entities.

On Thursday, Reid filed a motion to end debate on the bill, setting up that vote for Monday.

Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell shot back at Reid's claims, saying on the Senate floor, "here we go again."

The Kentucky Republican criticized Democrats and the White House for "ramming" health care reform down Americans' throats.

He said it's important to take the time to get the bill right and said discussions should continue.

The Kentucky Republican criticized Democrats and the White House for "ramming" health care reform down Americans' throats.

He said it's important to take the time to get the bill right and said discussions should continue.

The House passed its version of the bill in December.

Democratic leaders warn that the talks may be nothing more than a stalling tactic by Republicans.

At one point during Reid's news conference Thursday, a video was played, highlighting what Democrats see as GOP misinformation.

In the video, McConnell said the bill "allows for tax-funded bailout for Wall Street banks. It institutionalizes them. ... It provides for an endless taxpayer bailout of Wall Street banks."

Sen. Dick Durbin, the second highest-ranking Senate Democrat, denied that there is any bailout provision in the Senate's bill.

"The taxpayers don't pay for any part of this, and at the end of it, the company is gone," he said. "There's nothing to bail out."

House Minority Leader John Boehner, in responding to Obama's speech, continued to insist that the bill is a bailout.

"While the president says he wants to reform Wall Street, the bill we have in front of us will actually provide permanent bailouts for Wall Streets and enshrine 'too big to fail,' " he said.

A video of Sen. Jon Kyl was also played in which the Arizona Republican talked about how consumer protection parts of the bill would regulate dentists and even butchers.

"Once again, not true," Schumer said. "The new Consumer Protection Agency will make sure that consumers are getting financial products ... and services that will help them save money or buy a home."

http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/04/22/democrats.financial.reform/inde
x.html?hpt=Sbin


Awww-RIGHT! They're taking it to them, I hope those little balls keep on growing! Dentists and butchers?!?! Man, they're getting desperate!


"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10

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Saturday, April 24, 2010 8:20 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by Fremdfirma:

And didn't we have this argument October 2008 ?


And didn't you run away and hide under a rock for months and months, like the petulant little child you are ?

My call: Tea Party splits the base, Dems pick up seats.

You watch.

-F



I'm always amused when the petulant little children pretend they're on the moral high ground and call others petulant children.




And that's the sum total of your argument. You can't offer up any substantive, reasonable reply, other than dole out insults and dismissive, personal comments.


Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions


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Saturday, April 24, 2010 1:50 PM

FREMDFIRMA



On him, sure, a waste.

But that ain't about him, so much as keepin him and his arguments "credibility" where it belongs - while opening new potential topics for discussion and dropping a couple strong hints about why I don't believe either party is ever gonna be anything but a pretty front for the same basic agenda, just from different angles.

Like how the Tea Party is being helped along *BY* the democratic political machine as a combination of divide and conquer and briar patching - and how they're too goddamn stupid to even see it.

Or the fact that the "electronic advantage" is now in the hands of the other party, who as predicted, never wanted it killed off as much as they wanted control of it - notice ANY attempt at reform on that level since they got in position to use it ? I sure haven't.

Or how these deals are made in the back rooms of the halls of power by state electors, most folks don't even have a clue of the process whatever, and that most "elections" are as rigged as a WWF match, and all the little deals that go along with that, what concessions you make to get the other guy to take a dive when his poll numbers don't stand a chance against your gerrymandered districts and electronic fuckery - versus what concessions you'd have to make if they stood an actual chance, that kinda thing.

Not that anyone ever wants to talk about those kinds of ugly realities directly, so I slip em in sideways like that, while winding folk up enough to maybe get annoyed enough to say something.

For a fact, ain't no political party currently standing that wants to cut the leash, so much as change which hand is holding it, and that just ain't good enough for me - so I dump sand in the gears of em all, and it really is true that the knee-jerk drones are a pack of loose cannon wild cards which are a pain in the ass to *everybody* cause they have no loyalty, zero morality, and not one bloody ounce of sense, and nobody with a plan, not even me, cares for that kind of X-factor when the consequences of a total fubar can be so devastating.

-Frem

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Monday, April 26, 2010 8:20 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Yes, I understand wanting to offer reality to counter idiocy...it's part of what draws ME into responding and refuting. Valid point there.

As to the rest, I have to agree, much as I dislike it. How I wish...


"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10

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