REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

UK Election results

POSTED BY: KPO
UPDATED: Wednesday, May 12, 2010 03:34
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 1595
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Friday, May 7, 2010 3:15 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/election2010/results/

At a glance:

Conservative - 301 (+94)
Labour - 255 (-88)
Liberal Democrat - 55 (-5)

638 out of 650 seats declared.

Conservatives projected to hold largest share in a hung parliament (about 20 seats short of a majority). Either an uneasy Conservative/Liberal alliance, or a Labour/Liberal 'coalition of the losers' is possible; the political deal making will decide...

Heads should roll

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Friday, May 7, 2010 5:22 AM

JAYNEZTOWN


So is Brown in power or out of power at the moment?

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Friday, May 7, 2010 6:05 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Is or is this not going to create the strangest government you guys have had for eons? Sounds to me like nothing's decided yet, and even when all the votes are tallied, there's going to have to be SOME kind of "coalition" government, and you don't know yet WHICH party will get to elect a PM.

That's what I've been hearing so far, tho' that was as of last night, so it may have changed, I haven't checked yet.

No matter what happens, I'm tickled you're here so you can educate us and we have someone to discuss it with. We have a couple on the site I run, but while both are politically inclined, one is a teen so WE're teaching HER about politics mostly, and the other tends to post articles more than speak for himself. So having one Brit currently who'll discuss it is neat, for me!

Thank you and keep it up, please, this is fascinating.


"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10

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Friday, May 7, 2010 7:10 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Quote:

So is Brown in power or out of power at the moment?


Brown is still prime minister as he hasn't resigned, and Cameron doesn't have the majority he needs to claim power and force him out - unless he manages to form a majority coalition with the Libs in the next few days. Not a natural alliance but I don't think it's impossible either. If that fails Labour and the Libs could ally, though I'm not sure that would be good because Brown would only be weaker and more derided than he was before, going into a second term as premier but still never having 'won' an election...

Yes it's definitely a strange situation Niki, I voted Labour but found myself cheering on the conservatives to gain a majority last night - just so that a decisive government would be the result. I guess we'll see how this coalition government thing works out, the markets haven't responded too badly.

Heads should roll

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Friday, May 7, 2010 8:08 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Fascinating; I admit I'm more than a little confused about it all, but I'm trying to learn.

Then there's the Queen: My gawd, that's almost as bad as having Reagan decide things! (Will she lean on others to make the decision, or actually decide herself??) I thought our Supreme Court deciding was bad!
Quote:

After an election that left no party with a clear majority, the final decision over who becomes Britain's next prime minister could lie in the hands of one woman who never votes: The queen.

As a head of state, Queen Elizabeth has numerous traditional roles when it comes to elections and government, yet these are usually no more than ceremonial.

The queen is the embodiment of Britain's constitutional monarchy and everything is done in her name. No laws can be passed nor parliaments opened or dissolved without her approval.

Such strict protocols bind all stages of the process to install a new prime minister -- often with a pomp and grandeur far removed from the boisterous world of British politics.

In her six decade reign, Queen Elizabeth has dealt with 11 prime ministers, including Winston Churchill and Margaret Thatcher, who reputedly had a tense relationship with the monarch during the weekly audiences that are also a traditional necessity.

Typically, although it is her role to anoint prime ministers, the queen does not get involved in the political process, remaining above the fray.

After an election, the queen will wait to see if the current prime minister gets a majority or assembles a coalition before inviting them to form a government. Only if they admit defeat and resign can she start to look elsewhere.

As negotiations to form a coalition progress, the queen will be kept informed from a distance, avoiding any direct involvement in the decision.

A high level group including her private secretary and the Cabinet secretary will brief her, but she will not be drawn into controversy.

But, in the unlikely event that no decision can be reached among the parties over who should become prime minister the queen does have powers to intervene.

She can, in theory, call a fresh election or stop a new election being called if she thinks there is another solution.

The queen has faced election hiccups before. The last was in 1974 when after days of party negotiations, she invited Labour to form a minority government. That administration lasted less than a year before Britain was back at the polls.

It usually falls to royal advisers to ensure the rules work and that the queen is kept well away from the political wheeling and dealing.

However, as with Thursday's vote that saw the opposition Conservatives secure more seats than Prime Minister Gordon Brown's Labour Party but not enough to form a working government, the queen's position becomes more complicated.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/europe/05/07/uk.election.queen/index.htm
l?hpt=T2


Like I said, fascinating!


"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10

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Friday, May 7, 2010 8:14 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Okay, I'm beginning to grasp it...somewhat!

If Labour and the LibDems coalesce, they've STILL got only 314, right? So they'd have to get at least one of the smaller parties to join them. Man, this could be a mess!
Quote:

After one of the most fiercely fought and close general elections in years Britain is facing a hung parliament – meaning the Conservative party won the most seats, but not enough to give them a decisive victory over Labour's Prime Minister Gordon Brown. Britain hasn't had a "hung parliament" - one with no majority since 1974.

David Cameron's Conservative party came in first, with at least 304 seats in race to get 326 seats out of the 650-seat parliament. Brown's Labour party came in second with 257. The Liberal Democrats came third, with at least 57. About two dozen seats went to smaller parties, and a handful have yet to be declared.

It's similar to a George Bush-Al Gore scenario being played out across the pond - except instead of the election ending with electoral votes being decisive over the popular vote - it will end with some closed-door meetings and attempts to form alliances to create a majority in parliament.

So what happens now?

OK, deep breath. So there's a hung parliament, and nobody has enough votes to govern decisively. Now the deal-making part comes in– and it could take a while. The leader of the majority party traditionally gets the first chance to form the government and become prime minister.

But if no party has a majority (as is currently the case), the sitting prime minister - currently Gordon Brown - has the right to stay in office and try to win a confidence motion in parliament.

Conservative leader David Cameron, who didn't win that majority, but leads the party with the most votes declared his center-right party had earned the right to govern.

So Cameron has some choices he's going to have to make on the way to potentially becoming the U.K.'s next Prime Minister.

What could the outcome be?

There are several possible outcomes for how the U.K. parliament will shake out - depending on the different types of deals that are offered. CNN's Peter Wilkinson gives an in-depth look at many paths the talks can go down and several end result possibilities.

Cameron could try to form a minority government or launch a partnership in a coalition government.

•In a minority government a party tries to rule without a majority by winning support from other MPs on a vote-by-vote basis
•In a coalition government two or more parties agree to an alliance that sees them top the 326 majority to a shared agenda.
Where do they stand on forming a government now?

Here's the gist of where all three leaders stand in the early stages after the election:

•Conservative Party leader David Cameron floated the possibility of a coalition with the Liberal Democrats Friday. "The best thing for Britain now is a new government that works together in that national interest," he said. He emphasized areas where the two parties agree, including education reform and scrapping plans for national ID cards, while drawing red lines on defense and the economy.
•Prime Minister (for now) Gordon Brown is hoping at the end of the deal making he'll still have some power. Despite his party's overall loss he wants to stay in office and is willing to work with just about anyone. For now, he's still got the bed to sleep in at Downing Street until this is all hashed out. But if Labour and the Liberal Democrats can't reach a deal then Brown would be forced to leave the prime minister's residence immediately.
•Nick Clegg, the leader of the Liberal Democrats, on the other hand could look to make some moves of his own. Earlier Friday he said the Conservative party "has the first right to seek to govern either on its own or by reaching out to other parties."
The upper hand lies with Cameron. But who will emerge as the leader and how the government will gel could take some time to sort out.

When will there be a defined government and what will it mean?

It depends how quickly deals are made. Our partners at Time.com take a look at why the struggle to form a government may just be in beginning stages – in other words, hang on to your seats.

Time.com interviewed some Brits to get a sense on how they'd view a hung parliament. Some thought it would mean a stalemate on issues at a time when the U.K. needs decisive decisions and others hope it can bring the U.K. together to solve their problems.

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2010/05/07/u-k-election-what-happens-now/?hp
t=T2



"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10

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Friday, May 7, 2010 9:27 AM

DREAMTROVE


I suspect Labour will cave, and we'll have a Tory govt., but it could get very strange if Brown pulls a Blair

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Friday, May 7, 2010 9:52 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Wow. Will be interesting to watch you guys for a change of pace, hee, hee, hee!

I didn't know you were a Brit, DT. Interesting. I know Citizen is, but I haven't much interest in hearing what he has to say. But now there are two of you. Goodie! I fully expect both of you to educate this poor ignorant Yank on things politically British, I want you to know!


"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10

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Friday, May 7, 2010 11:15 AM

DREAMTROVE


I'm not a brit, but I go there often. I have much kinder feelings towards the Tories than towards the Republicans.

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Friday, May 7, 2010 11:23 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


A lot of this is all new to me as well Niki, the last time like it in 1974 was before my time...

Yes, I've heard about the queen potentially having a role, though no one wants that. It's difficult for her as she can't be seen to be favouring any candidate (unless she wants to hasten a British republic), yet it could fall to her to make the decision of which leader and party has the right to govern...

Quote:

If Labour and the LibDems coalesce, they've STILL got only 314, right?

Yep, still a minority, but a larger minority than the conservatives - so such a coalition could end up as minority government (with the blessing of the queen), but as I've said before I don't think the country as a whole would stomach Gordon Brown after having largely spanked him at the polls...

There's also the question of whether a minority government (blessed by the queen) would be able to effectively govern (securing extra votes from other party members all the time) - or would it be political stalemate? The Conservatives are not the Republicans but it's hard to imagine any of them working readily with Gordon Brown.

So some people are saying that a second election following on from this one (in the relatively near future) is a likely possibility. People aren't talking much about multi-party alliances (with smaller parties) to form majorities, I guess the numbers, or the different party ideologies, don't add up for that...


Heads should roll

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Friday, May 7, 2010 12:43 PM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


I just found this article, one of the journalist I like describing how he considered his vote - and summing up my position, and the national indecision quite well:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/david_aaronovitch/
article7117457.ece


Quote:

I agree that it’s time for a change. I think the Government and the Labour Party are, after 13 years, exhausted, defensive and, yes, desperate. Gordon Brown in this campaign has come to resemble his own Dorian Gray portrait, his features wearing the marks of every setback, jealousy and expediency that he has experienced or deployed. Mr Brown’s historic role was to be there for the banking crisis, which he handled brilliantly. Now, it is time for another prime minister from another party.

Quote:

I like Mr Cameron. I backed him for Tory leader when the smart money was on a Clarke-Davis face-off, and I have admired the fortitude with which he has remade the image of his party since, despite the constant carping of the Tory Right. Gays are, I think, safe with Dave.

Quote:

So on polling morning, as I walk down the hill to the school, I think the country needs Mr Cameron as PM. I think the country needs a Lib-Dem inspired reform of the electoral system. And I think the country needs a Labour Party that can still be the best hope for social justice at home and progress abroad. I don’t want to see that party, as seems possible, humiliated tonight. So I’ll be voting Labour.


Heads should roll

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Friday, May 7, 2010 1:05 PM

WHOZIT


I hope they keep that booger eatter Brown PM, he and Greece will turn the EU into a smoldering pile of ashes.....AHHAHAHAHAHAHA!!

It's funny cause it's true

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Friday, May 7, 2010 9:46 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


While the Queen has a role, it's really only token. Westminster system of government has conventions which determine what happens in such situations.

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Saturday, May 8, 2010 6:03 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


A minority government", that's a concept I never heard of. Wow, that would be a real mess, wouldn't it? I'm interested to see how this progresses...at least for you guys a second election wouldn't be like it would for US (gawd forbid!). I hope it all works out.

Magons, from everything I've read and heard, the Queen actually DOES have to make the decision in a case such as this potentially might end up being. Usually I imagine it IS a formality, but given no party has a majority, it does fall to her (like I found in that article above) to make the actual decisions, doesn't it KPO? Advised and extensively informed, I'm sure, but from what I've seen, the old lady is still pretty sharp for her age, which in and of itself is amazing!

Good luck, will be following this avidly.


"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10

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Saturday, May 8, 2010 6:36 AM

DREAMTROVE


Iirc, minority govts have the tacit support of a majority, but are not a coalition. I don't see that happening for labour, I think it's possible we will see Tory asa straight minority rather than a coalition. Tories have a lot of potential allies to choose from.

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Saturday, May 8, 2010 4:58 PM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Quote:

but given no party has a majority, it does fall to her (like I found in that article above) to make the actual decisions, doesn't it KPO?

I think theoretically it is possible (bear with me I'm learning as I go myself!), say if all parties squabble and claim victory separately - she would have to decide (with help from advisers) which has the most right to govern. But any politician that plays a part in putting such a well liked and respected monarch in that difficult position by squabbling, would not come out of it well I think. It's expected of the political leaders that they work this out amongst themselves, and then take the decision to the queen for her blessing.

Heads should roll

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Tuesday, May 11, 2010 12:33 PM

PEACEKEEPER

Keeping order in every verse


All talks between Labour and the LibDems fell apart earlier today. Acknowledging that he could no longer hold power, Gordon Brown went to Buckingham Palace and tendered his resignation, which the Queen accepted. David Cameron was then summonsed and asked to form a government.Folks, David Cameron is our new Prime Minister. He has a formal coalition agreement with the Lib Dems and that has been agreed for a five year term.How long that accord will last is anyones guess, but for the first time in 30 years we have a Conservative PM. He is 43 and thus the youngest PM for 200yrs.This coalition may be the making or breaking of british Politics, but the guy is accommodating and progressive and I feel he is a genuine guy. he is staunchly anti-Europe(as in being controlled by the European Parliament and I get the impression that he will certainly NOT be in President Obama's pocket. So, Niki, any questions.(not a snark,btw, I know you are genuinely intersted)

Peacekeeper---keeping order in every verse!!!

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Tuesday, May 11, 2010 12:53 PM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Quote:

but for the first time in 30 years we have a Conservative PM

Err, that's 13 years.

Quote:

but the guy is accommodating and progressive and I feel he is a genuine guy. he is staunchly anti-Europe

The anti-Europe thing doesn't do much for me... I hope the Libs as members in the coalition resist that, like the inheritance tax threshold rise. But I'm with you on David Cameron, I think he's quite a good one - time will tell.

Heads should roll

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Tuesday, May 11, 2010 12:57 PM

PEACEKEEPER

Keeping order in every verse


Sorry, yes, 13 years.30 years since Conservative wrenched power from Labour.

Peacekeeper---keeping order in every verse!!!

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Tuesday, May 11, 2010 1:35 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Good luck, how ever things go.

There seems to be a real sentiment that the people, all across the globe, are getting tired of the "same old games " both, all sides, what ever, have been playing.






Bones: "Don't 'rawr' her!"
Booth: "What? she'rawred' me first."

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Tuesday, May 11, 2010 2:36 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


Quote:

Originally posted by JaynezTown:
So is Brown in power or out of power at the moment?



Communist British Prime Minister Gordon Brown resigns
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE64A4TZ20100511


German Nazi Queen is a 17x Trillionaire of the 53-nation British Empire
USA annexed in 2008 via www.SPP.gov and 2009 via UN COP15 Hopenhagen Hell Treaty
http://www.whoownstheworld.com/about-the-book/largest-landowner/


Future Nazi King of the British Empire

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Tuesday, May 11, 2010 3:14 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

I am so appallingly ignorant of British politics, I have no idea what this change of leadership will mean for the UK, for Europe, or for the US.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Tuesday, May 11, 2010 4:50 PM

DREAMTROVE


Anthony,

I can only throw in my 2c, but here it is:

Tories are actually conservative, so if your thinking America, think reagan and earlier, maybe much. Cameron reminds of Teddy roosevelt somewhat, politically speaking, even if that prompts someone to call him jewsevelt.

For europe it means problems of the Eu, a bushite NWO group that is trying to take over Europe. Which is sometimes refered to as Europe. The Europe story is confusing, in no small part because the ruling body of Europe was the council of Europe, a role the Eu is trying to usurp, the result be a corporatist mess.

Miitarily it means, hopefully, we have one less patsy.

Econcomically, it means thatcherism, if anyone cares

Environmentally it means a greener Britain.

Possibly:
Stricter immigration
More independent monetary policy
Reduction in education costs

Things I like about this govt, aside from that it's a Tory govt:

Cameron, I think he's on the level, he's moderate, and willing to deal with people who disagrees with him.

The libdems. I think this is the perfect role for the liberal democrats. Im NLT sure if id like to see then charge, but they're a great supporting wing. They have some firm libertarian views that will keep the Tories from buckling to big business or britains allies, with any luck at all.

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Tuesday, May 11, 2010 6:38 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Damn, Peacekeeper, I forgot about you, apologies! And I've even got it on my little list: "Peacekeeper: British". Ooops. I try to keep track of where everyone's from, but obviously I don't check my list often enough...

Thanx for the info; I've heard and watched the results, but haven't fully understood them, or what they might mean, so what you wrote helped. We've been having internet/phone trouble for days, JUST got it fixed and it's nice to come back and find info. Shouldn't be here, it's late and I usually only let myself get on in the morning, but my willpower failed me, I've been in such internet-deficit!

Yes, I've been watching and found it fascinating. From what I hear, have read and what I see written here, Cameron sounds promising. "Accommodating and progressive and I feel he is a genuine guy" sounds real hopeful. I'd like England not to be our patsy anymore; we need fewer patsies and more countries who will stand up to us when we do something stupid (ie Iraq!). I like the idea of a greener England--again maybe you can help us head that way

The idea of the Lib-Dems and Conservatives working together is going to be very interesting to watch. It's something that would never happen here right now, but maybe YOUR politicians really want to solve some problems, eh wot?

Would be nice to see SOMEONE working toward a middle ground, at least from this side of the Pond, since it ain't gonna happen here for a long time I fear. I wish them all the luck in the world...I can enjoy dreams of our guys paying attention and getting the concept. Hey, I said I could dream!


"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10

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Wednesday, May 12, 2010 3:34 AM

DREAMTROVE


Pk, and a long time since a liberal conservative govt.

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