This guy comes across as a joke...he's not even coherent, and he's unemployed...can't imagine where he got the $10,000 to run. ..."/>

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Alvin Greene: Plant?

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Monday, June 14, 2010 10:47
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 1195
PAGE 1 of 1

Sunday, June 13, 2010 6:54 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


This guy comes across as a joke...he's not even coherent, and he's unemployed...can't imagine where he got the $10,000 to run.


Quote:

With South Carolina's sordid history of dirty politics, it's no wonder conspiracy theories abound about an unknown, unemployed military veteran winning the Democratic nomination for U.S. Senate.

This is, after all, the birthplace of political maestro Lee Atwater and where rumors of an illegitimate black child ruined John McCain's 2000 presidential run.

Perhaps the most surprising element of Alvin Greene's victory so far is that nothing yet sufficiently explains how it happened.

Greene stunned the state with his win Tuesday over a four-term former lawmaker considered the presumptive Democratic nominee. The 32-year-old candidate who lives with his father and faces a felony charge will challenge Republican juggernaut U.S. Sen. Jim DeMint in the fall.

The week has seen Greene change from sweat pants and a T-shirt to dark suit and tie, but he's still stammering his way through interviews as he did before the election when he repeated several vague phrases about job creation to an Associated Press reporter and declined to talk about where he campaigned.

When The Associated Press broke word of the felony charge that day, the stunned Democratic establishment lashed out with a panoply of suspicions over how Greene could have paid his $10,440 filing fee and won. House Majority Whip Jim Clyburn wants authorities to investigate. "Something is amiss," he said.

While it's tough to explain how Greene came up with the cash (he says he saved up for two years), the conspiracy theories posed by analysts and Democrats are not ironclad:

— Is Greene a shell candidate who got help from Republican forces seeking to discredit the Democratic Party? Greene says he hasn't had help from anyone, save friends and family. State Republican officials call the allegation "absurd" and DeMint is considered a lock for a second term.

— Third-party help? Did Greene, who is black, get help from outside groups? A group that ran cable ads encouraging the unemployed to vote says it never promoted him and the director of the state's NAACP chapter says he knew nothing about Greene before Tuesday night.

— Was Rawl a victim of the antiestablishment sentiment that swept the state's primaries? Rawl carried few counties on Tuesday, but one of them was Charleston, where he serves on the county council.

Francis Marion University political scientist Neal Thigpen said he thinks Greene benefited from voters not knowing either candidate and choosing either a name that sounded familiar or the one at the top of the list.

"In this case, the guy got a lot of the blind vote," Thigpen said. "It's just a complete fluke."

"The only mystery there to me is where the guy got the $10,000," he added.

State Sen. Robert Ford, who came in third in his bid for the Democratic nomination for governor, said it is possible that black voters looking for a black candidate might have chosen Greene because of the spelling of his name.

"Voters didn't know either candidate," said Ford, who is black. "A lot of blacks who have the last name Greene add an 'e'."

In a state where the contentious Republican primary for governor held voters rapt with infidelity allegations and racial slurs, the contest for the right to face DeMint simply fell to the backburner. U.S. Sen. Robert Menendez, who heads the group aimed at elected Democratic senators, says he's not focusing resources on the state this year.

http://www.csmonitor.com/From-the-news-wires/2010/0612/Alvin-Greene-vi
ctory-another-weird-chapter-in-South-Carolina-politics


There are questions about how in hell he got elected:
Quote:

The review is in response to the shocking victory by 32-year-old Alvin Greene, who, despite never giving a campaign speech or running any television or radio ads, managed to handily defeat Rawl 59 percent to 41 percent. The state party chairwoman has already asked Greene to step aside, and Rep. Jim Clyburn (D-S.C.) has speculated that he might be a Republican plant.

Greene has pledged to remain in the race and said he has “always been a Democrat.”

In Lancaster County, Rawl won absentee ballots over Greene by a staggering 84 percent to 16 percent margin; but Greene easily led among Election Day voters by 17 percentage points.

In Spartanburg County, Ludwig said there are 25 precincts in which Greene received more votes than were actually cast and 50 other precincts where votes appeared to be missing from the final count.

“In only two of 88 precincts, do the number of votes Greene got plus the number we got equal the total cast,” Ludwig said.

Greene also racked up a 75 percent or greater margin in one-seventh of all precincts statewide, a mark that Ludwig notes is even difficult for an incumbent to reach.

http://www.sodahead.com/united-states/experts-review-sc-senate-ballots
-greene-gets-more-votes-than-votes-cast/blog-346193
/


At least he sounds more sensible in this one. But even FauxNews has questions about him When The Christian Science Monitor, MSNBC and FauxNews question the situation, it say something... Politics is weird...especially in South Carolina! So wha' hoppen, do 'ya think?


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
signing off



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Sunday, June 13, 2010 8:16 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

He seems like a Distinguished Gentleman to me.





--Anthony



"On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you." --Auraptor

"This vile and revolting malice - this is their true colors, always has been, you're just seeing it without the mask of justifications and excuses they hide it behind, is all. Make sure to remember it once they put the mask back on." --Fremdfirma

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Sunday, June 13, 2010 1:51 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


More proof that Demorats are E V I L.

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Sunday, June 13, 2010 5:23 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Quote:

Originally posted by piratenews:
More proof that Demorats are E V I L.



Hello,

That seems like a random and senseless conclusion from the evidence at hand.

--Anthony



"On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you." --Auraptor

"This vile and revolting malice - this is their true colors, always has been, you're just seeing it without the mask of justifications and excuses they hide it behind, is all. Make sure to remember it once they put the mask back on." --Fremdfirma

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Sunday, June 13, 2010 10:14 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


More to the point, how did he get ELECTED? Who voted for him? The vote count continues to be open to hacking.

Two presidential elections were stolen through manipulation of the electronic vote. For the 2000 election, I tested various scenarios in the Florida voting as published by the consortium of newspapers, looking three-coner chands and two-corner chads and dimples, and yanno what? The "chad" story was bogus. The REAL vote swing came in wealthy Florida counties with electronic voting machines... if THAT vote had been re-counted, Florida would have gone to Gore. As far as the 2004 election and the big difference between the exits polls and the vote count, the only scenario which distinguished statisticians could NOT discount was FRAUD.

Steven F., Freeman (December 29, 2004) (PDF). The Unexplained Exit Poll Discrepancy. http://www.appliedresearch.us/sf/Documents/ExitPoll.pdf. Retrieved 2008-07-23.

Anyway, it's entirely possible that this was a massive case of vote fraud.

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Sunday, June 13, 2010 10:16 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.



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Sunday, June 13, 2010 11:19 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


No real experience, shoddy back ground, questionable character...

Kinda like Obama. Folks saw what they wanted to see, and voted for the candidate.


" You go to war with the candidate you have. "









" Being correct does not excuse a violation of form " - Ducky, NCIS.

" ...the whole point of swearing is that it ain't appropriate. " - Kaylee


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Sunday, June 13, 2010 11:30 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello Signy,

You are making it much too complex if you are looking towards computer hacking.

1) You select a non-viable candidate.
2) You have your people vote him through the primary.
3) You defeat him in the election with your party's legitimate candidate.

No hacking required. Legitimate votes cast.

I don't doubt that hacking is possible, but you wouldn't tip your hand like this by using it on a candidate everyone will oggle at in disbelief.

--Anthony




"On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you." --Auraptor

"This vile and revolting malice - this is their true colors, always has been, you're just seeing it without the mask of justifications and excuses they hide it behind, is all. Make sure to remember it once they put the mask back on." --Fremdfirma

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Monday, June 14, 2010 5:29 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Yes, Anthony, that may have been what happened here. Or any of the other scenarios, I doubt we'll ever know. But given the guy is unemployed, has a felony count against him, didn't do any campaigning to speak of or have a website or anything, it does keep one wondering.

Your scenario might well not work, given the unwinable candidate gets the primary, how do you put your candidate up against him? In this case, having him win the primary means he goes up against the REPUBLICAN candidate, and he'll lose by a landslide. But it doesn't work for the Democrats, so it has to be the other party doing the fraud.

I happen to agree with Sig, and your solution wouldn't work in a national election such as the two to which she's referring. I know there was something wrong in Florida, but it goes beyond that for me. The Supreme Court "gave" Bush the election by stopping the vote count and not allowing any further investigation. I happen to think the second election was somehow rigged too, but I don't know enough to make the flat declaration or know how it was done or anything. But the first one is to me beyond question, as far as I and many millions of Americans are concerned. Which is neither here nor there, it's in the past.

It's just very scary for the future; if Obama hadn't garnered such a huge following, and McCain chosen a VP candidate that sent millions running from him, who knows what would have happened...and what does it say for future elections?

Worries me a lot, when I think about it, which is as rarely as I can manage. Only time will tell.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
signing off


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Monday, June 14, 2010 5:33 AM

DREAMTROVE


Anthony

There was clearly vote rigging because more people voted the guy then there are.

But overall, I suspect rap is right, people coated for him because they saw what they wanted to see, I think that's often the case. Here in ny, a hooker is running for governor. I guess it's still better then spitzer

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Monday, June 14, 2010 7:05 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


"In this case, having him win the primary means he goes up against the REPUBLICAN candidate, and he'll lose by a landslide. But it doesn't work for the Democrats, so it has to be the other party doing the fraud."

Hello,

Yes, this is precisely what I was suggesting.

--Anthony



"On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you." --Auraptor

"This vile and revolting malice - this is their true colors, always has been, you're just seeing it without the mask of justifications and excuses they hide it behind, is all. Make sure to remember it once they put the mask back on." --Fremdfirma

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Monday, June 14, 2010 7:18 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


I looked it up. SC does have an open primary, so it's possible that enough Republicans voted for Greene to swing the vote. And it's an example of the kind of damage that can be done by open primaries.

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Monday, June 14, 2010 7:22 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

I have wondered if this might not be what we are looking at. Does anyone know the specifics of South Carolina voting processes?:


"Manipulation and dilution

Opponents of the open primary believe that the open primary leaves the party nominations vulnerable to manipulation and dilution. First, one party could organize its voters to vote in the other party's primary and choose the candidate that they most agree with or that they think their party could most easily defeat."


(from wikipedia)

--Anthony


"On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you." --Auraptor

"This vile and revolting malice - this is their true colors, always has been, you're just seeing it without the mask of justifications and excuses they hide it behind, is all. Make sure to remember it once they put the mask back on." --Fremdfirma

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Monday, June 14, 2010 7:23 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

Sorry Signy, you posted while I was looking up my wikipedia cite. :-)

Yes, what Signy said.

--Anthony



"On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you." --Auraptor

"This vile and revolting malice - this is their true colors, always has been, you're just seeing it without the mask of justifications and excuses they hide it behind, is all. Make sure to remember it once they put the mask back on." --Fremdfirma

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Monday, June 14, 2010 7:33 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Ahhh, an open primary. That might well explain it. If word got around among Republicans about how unelectable he is, I can well imagine they might do their best to get him to win the primary. If there was no big battle on the Republican side, they could well have used their vote to put someone in who could be easily beat in the midterms. Not even any fraud needed, tho' there might well still be some, given the more-votes-than-people thing.

I'd thought of doing the same thing myself, as I'm registered Independent, but it never seemed important enough to do.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
signing off


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Monday, June 14, 2010 7:42 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Problems:

1) In 25 districts, there were more votes cast for Green than there were actual votes cast, total. That's kind of a tip-off that there was some clear vote-rigging going on. If you tally 100,000 votes, and Candidate A gets 25,000, and Candidate B gets 250,000 of those 100,000 votes tallied, I'd say you have some rigging going on.

2) Greene is "indigent", according to himself. He claimed poverty when requesting a court-appointed attorney on his felony obscenity charge, which is still pending (and would likely be a bit of a hindrance to his being elected to state office, but in South Carolina, you never know...)

3) His "campaign manager" also ran the campaign of Joe "You Lie!" Wilson, and is a longtime Republican party advisor and consultant.

4) Vic Rawl, the legitimate Democratic candidate for the office, was assumed to be a walk-over for incumbent "DeMented" Jim DeMint, but recent polling had DeMint leading Rawl by 50-43, which is tighter than Crazy Jim would like.

5) All signs point to someone in DeMint's camp, or the state (or national?) Republican party deciding to put up a stalking horse candidate, someone who would make Jim DeMint look like an absolutely genius, and the ONLY logical choice for Senate. And what better kind of decoy to put up than a fumbling, inarticulate, not-very-bright-seeming accused felon who has trouble answering simple questions in a softball interview?

Of course, this would all be a whole lot easier to prove if we had the smoking gun, an internal communication showing that this was the plan all along. Otherwise, how did the party communicate to its voters that they were supposed to go to an open primary and vote for Greene?

Mike

On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you. --Auraptor

This vile and revolting malice - this is their true colors, always has been, you're just seeing it without the mask of justifications and excuses they hide it behind, is all. Make sure to remember it once they put the mask back on. --Fremdfirma

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Monday, June 14, 2010 7:52 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

In 25 districts, there were more votes cast for Green than there were actual votes cast, total. That's kind of a tip-off that there was some clear vote-rigging going on. If you tally 100,000 votes, and Candidate A gets 25,000, and Candidate B gets 250,000 of those 100,000 votes tallied, I'd say you have some rigging going on.
Obviously, this needs to be investigated.

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Monday, June 14, 2010 8:02 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
Quote:

In 25 districts, there were more votes cast for Green than there were actual votes cast, total. That's kind of a tip-off that there was some clear vote-rigging going on. If you tally 100,000 votes, and Candidate A gets 25,000, and Candidate B gets 250,000 of those 100,000 votes tallied, I'd say you have some rigging going on.
Obviously, this needs to be investigated.




Yup. That came from Olbermann's show on Friday night (the allegation that more votes were cast for Greene than were actually cast - the 250,000 out of 100,000 comes from me, as an illustration by exaggeration; nobody is throwing numbers like those around, only that more votes were counted for Greene than there were votes cast).

I'm a bit behind on this whole story at the moment; having been out in the middle of nowhere for a while, and just getting back to civilization. What'd I miss over the weekend? Did Bush finally accept some of that foreign Katrina aid?

Mike

On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you. --Auraptor

This vile and revolting malice - this is their true colors, always has been, you're just seeing it without the mask of justifications and excuses they hide it behind, is all. Make sure to remember it once they put the mask back on. --Fremdfirma

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Monday, June 14, 2010 8:20 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
I looked it up. SC does have an open primary, so it's possible that enough Republicans voted for Greene to swing the vote. And it's an example of the kind of damage that can be done by open primaries.


That makes no sense. The Republicans had a highly contested and controversial Governor's race that drew large numbers of voters including Democratic crossovers.

You can't vote Republican for one office and Democratic for the other. An open Primary means your get either one ballot or the other.

Absent any evidence, and so far there has only been baseless accusations and wacky theories, then the most likely explanation is the most simple.

Big Republican race draws interested Democrats. Disintered Democrats vote their ballot. The Senate race was vitually uncontested so the likely Democrat did not waste time or money on a campaign against an unknown. This, in effect, leveled the playing field in which two candidates with little or no name recognition and little or no real campaigning faced off in a primary composed of disinterested voters who paid little attention to the people they were voting for. It was luck of the draw and the Democrats are stuck with him.

I note for the record that this dynamic is not unlike local Judge elections when folks have little or no clue who they are voting for and pick the most familiar name. It becomes a toss up. The real fault here lies with the loser for failing to get his name out there enough to win. Its not a conspiracy, its group dynamics.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.
"I find those statements amazing. I said I found your remarks 'amazing'" Niki2, 2010.

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Monday, June 14, 2010 8:20 AM

MAL4PREZ


Fivethirtyeight.com has a few excellent blogs about this primary:

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2010/06/something-fishy-in-south-caroli
na.html


http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2010/06/sc-democratic-primary-getting-w
eirder.html


In particular, the theory that Rep voters switched to Dem just to vote in Greene was pretty clearly shot down. Anyone voting Democrat in this primary was not able to vote on the Republican ticket at all. Yet, republican numbers were not down. (And there's other stuff that makes this unlikely - the governors race that Hero pointed out is a big one.) The race issue is also addressed - ie was Greene elected because he is black. And the placement of his name on the ballot.

Fivethirtyeight is leaning toward a voting machine issue, either fraud or bad programming. Looking kind of like voting machine fraud - shocker! There's interesting statistical analysis included in the second link for fellow math geeks: they did the Benson test, the same method Nate Silver used to shoot down the fraudulent pollsters at Strategic Vision LLC. Very interesting stuff. Important to know if you ever plan on cooking numbers, so you can avoid leaving an artificial pattern.


-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

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Monday, June 14, 2010 10:47 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Well, if there were more votes for him than the total votes counted, that pretty much says it all. I didn't know you could only vote one party--it's like that here ("want a republican ballot or a democrat ballot?"). But the other question remains unanswered--and SHOULD be answered, it seems to me. Damn.

His being indigent, public defender, felony charge all make me question how he campaigned, and the "first name on the ballot" thing doesn't work for me, given the above.

We'll probably never know; well-known fact that Dems haven't the balls to challenge things very hard...sigh...


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
signing off


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