I found this interesting:[quote]A clue to why Jesse James cheated on Sandra Bullock may be found in a new study that says men are more likely to cheat on..."/>

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Men more likely to cheat on women with bigger paychecks, study says

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Monday, August 23, 2010 14:14
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Monday, August 16, 2010 9:04 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


I found this interesting:
Quote:

A clue to why Jesse James cheated on Sandra Bullock may be found in a new study that says men are more likely to cheat on women who earn more money than them.

Men who are completely economically dependent on their female partners are five times more likely to cheat than men in relationships with women who earned similar amounts, according to the the study's author, Christin Munsch, a sociology Ph.D. candidate at Cornell University.

Women making more money than men may threaten the male's traditional view of being the breadwinner, says Munsch.

So what financial situation would make men more likely to be faithful?

Men in relationships with women who made about 75 percent of the men's income were the least likely to cheat, said the study.

..."threaten the male's traditional view of being the breadwinner"; more likely, in my opinion, threaten their ego and self-esteem.



Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off





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Monday, August 16, 2010 3:33 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

I wonder if this might be centered on the desire to feel needed and important. I think that people who don't feel needed or important to their partners are most likely to be dissatisfied in a relationship, and hence are most likely to cheat.

--Anthony

Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews. I apologize for the inconvenience.

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Monday, August 16, 2010 6:53 PM

FREMDFIRMA



Quite likely, also add a side order of bruised ego and (idiotic) gender role issues.

Thankfully that was never an issue with the ex - our relationship was very much traditional 50's with the roles reversed, but it never bothered me, she made far more than I do, and when it comes to domestic matters....
*laugh*
Hell, last time I stopped over I wound up shoving her out of the way and doing her dishes myself, seriously, it's pathetic how AWFUL she is at domestic stuff!

Thing is though, domesticity, especially when you get it down pat... it's fucking BORING, you see ?

And that, I think, is where most of the trouble starts with most of the cases mentioned above, honestly, and in fact probably where it starts with either gender eventually cheating.

For mine own, well, I don't mind boredom - adventurous living is NOT all it's cracked up to be in the movies.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Tuesday, August 17, 2010 12:43 AM

KANEMAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
I found this interesting:
Quote:

A clue to why Jesse James cheated on Sandra Bullock may be found in a new study that says men are more likely to cheat on women who earn more money than them.

Men who are completely economically dependent on their female partners are five times more likely to cheat than men in relationships with women who earned similar amounts, according to the the study's author, Christin Munsch, a sociology Ph.D. candidate at Cornell University.

Women making more money than men may threaten the male's traditional view of being the breadwinner, says Munsch.

So what financial situation would make men more likely to be faithful?

Men in relationships with women who made about 75 percent of the men's income were the least likely to cheat, said the study.

..."threaten the male's traditional view of being the breadwinner"; more likely, in my opinion, threaten their ego and self-esteem.



Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off








I think you should change your attitude about men...then change your diaper.

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Tuesday, August 17, 2010 12:50 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



Jessie James was in no way economically dependent on Sandra, even if she does make a lot more $$.

Hugh Grant was doing quite well, than, you, when he cheated on Liz Hurley.

And Prince Charles ?

Men cheat because they can. Simple as that. Just like women. Some are just selfish and thoughtless.







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Tuesday, August 17, 2010 2:36 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

I wonder if this might be centered on the desire to feel needed and important.
Well then, if you want to feel "needed and important", how about doing something USEFUL for a change? Like mebbe take care of the kids?

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Tuesday, August 17, 2010 2:41 AM

KANEMAN


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
Quote:

I wonder if this might be centered on the desire to feel needed and important.
Well then, if you want to feel "needed and important", how about doing something USEFUL for a change? Like mebbe take care of the kids?




You really need to get laid.......I can smell the frustration through the laptop

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Tuesday, August 17, 2010 5:49 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
Quote:

I wonder if this might be centered on the desire to feel needed and important.
Well then, if you want to feel "needed and important", how about doing something USEFUL for a change? Like mebbe take care of the kids?



Hello,

This sounds like something an insensitive husband might say to his stay-at-home wife.

--Anthony



Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews. I apologize for the inconvenience.

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Tuesday, August 17, 2010 7:16 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

wonder if this might be centered on the desire to feel needed and important
That's what I meant by "ego", Anthony; I'm sorry I wasn't specific enough.
Quote:

Men cheat because they can. Simple as that. Just like women. Some are just selfish and thoughtless.
Totally valid comment, but I would say "SOME men..." But I do think there is SOME validity to the concept that anyone who feels "less than" their partner, for any reason, is more likely to be drawn to another person who finds them desirable.
Quote:

This sounds like something an insensitive husband might say to his stay-at-home wife.
I also agree with this; it could be said by either one, with equally derrogatory intent.




Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off




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Tuesday, August 17, 2010 4:57 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Hello, This sounds like something an insensitive husband might say to his stay-at-home wife.
Oh! So you noticed!

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Tuesday, August 17, 2010 5:19 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


I dare say 90% of working wives would LOVE for their hubby to hire them as a stay-at-home mommy, barefoot and pregnant, bossing kids to do all the housework.

But women in the workplace cut mens' paychecks by 50%, so they can't afford stay-at-home mommies.

Istead they get a work wife who they spend most of their day with, to go with their working wife who they never see.

Or they hire a hooker from outer space.


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Tuesday, August 17, 2010 5:32 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


PN... that's very Taliban-esque of you! May as well require the burqua!

Oh, and BTW... the "conservative" muslims, who expect their wives to be barefoot, pregnant and in the kitchen... they LOVE hookers!

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Wednesday, August 18, 2010 6:13 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by kaneman:
Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
I found this interesting:
Quote:

A clue to why Jesse James cheated on Sandra Bullock may be found in a new study that says men are more likely to cheat on women who earn more money than them.

Men who are completely economically dependent on their female partners are five times more likely to cheat than men in relationships with women who earned similar amounts, according to the the study's author, Christin Munsch, a sociology Ph.D. candidate at Cornell University.

Women making more money than men may threaten the male's traditional view of being the breadwinner, says Munsch.

So what financial situation would make men more likely to be faithful?

Men in relationships with women who made about 75 percent of the men's income were the least likely to cheat, said the study.

..."threaten the male's traditional view of being the breadwinner"; more likely, in my opinion, threaten their ego and self-esteem.



Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off








I think you should change your attitude about men...then change your diaper.




LOL.... I haven't been here for like a year and this is the first thing that jumps out at me. Thanks kaneman for never changing in a world where everything always changes.




The truth is, some men are more prone to cheating than others... also, some women are more prone to cheating than others.

What EVERYBODY needs to do is to keep in mind that with this study, and all scientific studies, like all political polls, there is a controlled environment. A controlled environment is necessary for the experiment to have any merit of course, but it can also be, and often is, controlled to the point of being able to milk the desired results.

I've got a theory that since women have been going to work and leaving the old role of being caretaker of the house that divorce rates have jumped significantly and the amount of kids that need ritalin or prozac or zoloft has increased at the same pace.

I'm sure that half of you could spin facts to prove my point beyond a shadow of a doubt, and that the other half of you could spin it so I look like the most sexest relic still to be found in 2010.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned."

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Wednesday, August 18, 2010 6:39 PM

BYTEMITE


Seems to be a justification for the whole woman making $0.75 to the dollar thing.

...So, PN. If only one part of any given couple worked, would the workers in question make more money and thus be able to afford that lifestyle? On one hand, I can kind of see where you're coming from (something to do with demand and supply for jobs, effecting how much people can be paid).

But on the other, I think the bigger problem here is outsourcing jobs overseas, which significantly decreases available jobs in sectors that have otherwise grown so much and make so much profit that there should be a correlative amount of jobs created. Enough to cover both working men and women.

And for the families the problem in my view seems to be crazy inflation. Both parents didn't use to have to work three jobs to make ends meet, even with a higher minimum wage.

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Thursday, August 19, 2010 5:32 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Heya 6ix!

So, Wulf, PN and others... here's the thing:

Men SAY that taking care of kids and running the house is "important". But the fact is they disrespect it SO much that to suggest that a MAN do it is considered a terrible insult, a personal affront, and a symbol of powerlessness. Women who are "housewives" are seen (by men) as lesser beings, because what housewives "bring" to the marriage is so much less than what men bring, the bargain is that men are buying something of a sex slave... a high-priced whore, if you will.

OTOH, when women work outside of the house they are STILL despised... as job-stealers.

Much as you might like, you can't have it both ways and create a "no win" situation for women because yanno what? You create a "no win" situation for yourself as well. As the average guy, none of you are so high and mighty that you can determine your future. The corporations got you beat on that one... and they'll play you against us, against the Chinese, against anyone. The only way to make your situation better is to throw in with everyone else who's in the same miserable situation as you. Stop thinking that if you make 25% "more" than another group of people, that somehow puts you in the same league as the guys who make 400X more than you, and who REALLY control your destiny 'cause it doesn't.

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Thursday, August 19, 2010 5:59 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Hmmmmm.....

The more I think about this article, the more I believe the hidden meaning to be that men who marry older, aging women are more likely to cheat on their spouses.

Don't get me wrong... Sandra Bullock was one sexy woman back in the day, but when you marry your mom, it doesn't take long for the fecal matter to start rolling downhill.

Koo Koo Kachoo!

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned."

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Thursday, August 19, 2010 6:00 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
Heya 6ix!



Heya Signy!

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned."

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Friday, August 20, 2010 3:34 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
Men SAY that taking care of kids and running the house is "important". But the fact is they disrespect it SO much that to suggest that a MAN do it is considered a terrible insult, a personal affront, and a symbol of powerlessness. Women who are "housewives" are seen (by men) as lesser beings, because what housewives "bring" to the marriage is so much less than what men bring, the bargain is that men are buying something of a sex slave... a high-priced whore, if you will.

OTOH, when women work outside of the house they are STILL despised... as job-stealers.



So. Stereotype much, SignyM?

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Friday, August 20, 2010 3:48 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


No, I'm just going by the responses in this thread and those I've heard in my life.

Perhaps I should have said "most" men. Some men don't find childcare to be demeaning, and some men are perfectly fine making less than their wives. And it seems to be that the younger generation is more like that. So it's not a global response. But there are a set of men who say that childcare and housework is important... but not important enough for them to actually... yanno... do. And certainly not enough to give up any income over.

Also, there is the economic and social reality that housework and childcare in the home isn't a paid occupation. It's not just a personal matter, but where society chooses to place its resources.

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Friday, August 20, 2010 3:53 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


"Men SAY that taking care of kids and running the house is "important". But the fact is they disrespect it SO much that to suggest that a MAN do it is considered a terrible insult, a personal affront, and a symbol of powerlessness. Women who are "housewives" are seen (by men) as lesser beings, because what housewives "bring" to the marriage is so much less than what men bring, the bargain is that men are buying something of a sex slave... a high-priced whore, if you will."

Hello,

This is a fascinating statement.

I work full time and do a significant portion of the housework (including most of the cooking and cleaning, and all of the laundry.) I have a great deal of respect for anyone who engages in the aching drudgery of domestic engineering.

Nobody has sex in my marriage unless they want to, and no one *would* have to even if only one of us worked. I do not, in fact, observe any relationships where such servicing is required due to an income disparity.

I *have* seen relationships where a non-working participant is expected to perform some valuable contribution to the household, but this is nothing less than fair. I have also seen relationships where the non-working participant does nothing productive. Usually I see this on 'reality' television shows, where watching people at leisure engaging in petty social squabbling is the point of the plot, as it were.

I haven't seen relationships like the ones you describe since I stopped watching 60's and 70's era television re-runs. I'm sorry that you are still experiencing and observing these sorts of inequities.

--Anthony



Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews. I apologize for the inconvenience.

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Friday, August 20, 2010 6:52 AM

FREMDFIRMA



I find it all ridiculous, but then as a Polyamorous Anarchist, how could I not ?

That said, I did have some "issues" from a previous girl over nothing less than self-sufficiency, being fully capable of handling my own household (which I been DOIN since a single digit age anyhow) and seeing to my own finances as well as tech and mechanical maintanence on top of domestic engineering, she felt somehow slighted by this, as if she were a decorative housepet, that she was superfluous...

That I cared deeply for her never seemed to enter the question, it was that I didn't *NEED* her, that bothered her so greatly, and some people, they need to be needed.

So I paid up the rent and bills two months ahead, left her the lease and the car title, and went on my merry, with my own life.

Her reaction to this was to go completely freakin berserk and try to have me run off if not lynched by whatever mutual friends we had, who called her bluff and enraged her even more - she still wants my head on a plate, matter of fact.

Not all people are sane, nor reasonable, and when it comes to relationships, any pre-existing bit of crazy can get multiplied exponentially by the very strong feelings involved - at which point logic, reason, and studies, no matter how scientific, go right out the fekking window, because you cannot measure humanity but with only one scale, the heart - which has no handy tick marks for scientific analysis.

And so.. *fingersnap* THAT for your studies!

Love is a form of Madness to begin with, and the day emotion can be scientifically measured is the day that it will die.

All this stuff ever is... is an attempt to explain something which is by its very nature inexplicable, and always will be.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Saturday, August 21, 2010 7:32 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


ANTHONY, it sounds like you're in a more egalitarian relationship. Good on you! But curiously, it was YOUR statement
Quote:

Hello, This sounds like something an insensitive husband might say to his stay-at-home wife.
which made me think about sexism.

To put in in context, this all started with:
Quote:

I wonder if this might be centered on the desire to feel needed and important.

Well then, if you want to feel "needed and important", how about doing something USEFUL for a change? Like mebbe take care of the kids?- Signy

to which you replied
Quote:

Hello, This sounds like something an insensitive husband might say to his stay-at-home wife.
I thought my statement was a perfectly fair suggestion, but you reacted negatively to it, as if taking care of kids was somehow insulting.

I DO see sexism, not only in my generation of Americans, but in the Asian, Hispanic, and Eastern European/ Russian marriages of those I work with and know. Even in this current generation, while the division of childcare and household chores is fairer than before, women still do more in most marriages, particularly if they work in lower-paid jobs.

www.ncsociology.org/sociationtoday/v71/chore.htm

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Saturday, August 21, 2010 12:02 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


"I thought my statement was a perfectly fair suggestion, but you reacted negatively to it, as if taking care of kids was somehow insulting."

Hello,

The insult was many-fold to assume that the mate was doing nothing useful already, to divorce oneself from responsibility for the children, and to presume that there is no other avenue of usefulness for the mate except to take care of the children.

But most importantly, to declare essentially that the person in question is of no use to you currently- "Something USEFUL for a CHANGE" thus exacerbating the feeling of not feeling needed or important.

It's basically confirming the sentiment of woe. A very insensitive thing to say, and one apparently erroneously associated with men.

--Anthony


Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews. I apologize for the inconvenience.

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Monday, August 23, 2010 10:40 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Meant to get back to this but have been extremely busy. You're right. My phrasing was insensitive; there was way more to what I wrote than the simple proposal to do something useful.

But there remains the underlying rationalization (at least as suggested by SOME here) that men must feel "important" in some way if they're not making the bigger paycheck. And so my question is: Is child-minding and housework important or not? Some men here- Wulf, PN, 6ix- SAY that it is. But is is important enough for THEM to do?

One other thing which I think is interesting... while I value the broad spectrum of interests and ideas on the board (a little heavy on the male libertarian side imho, but to be expected given the nature of the show) very few people here are actually PARENTS. So most peeps here have not had to face that personal/ professional sacrifice, and may not fully understand that in today's money-based hyper-competitive society, children can represent a real source of conflict. BOTH parents have to be on-board with valuing the work involved in raising children. If not, better not to have kids.

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Monday, August 23, 2010 10:47 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

I find that I often say something insensitive- not because it's what I meant to convey, but because there were many unfortunate and unintended avenues and alleys in the words I chose. It happens to the best of us. :-)

--Anthony

Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews. I apologize for the inconvenience.

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Monday, August 23, 2010 10:53 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Sorry Anthony- I did my usual after-the fact addition. But my apology to you still holds.

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Monday, August 23, 2010 2:14 PM

FREMDFIRMA


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
And so my question is: Is child-minding and housework important or not? Some men here- Wulf, PN, 6ix- SAY that it is. But is is important enough for THEM to do?


Shit, you ask me it's THE most important job in our society, for all the short-shrift it tends to get, and yet we do such an inexcusably poor job of it.

That is a source of endless frustration to me as well.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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