REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Another 'Religion of Peace' moment, brought to you by.....yep, ISLAM!

POSTED BY: AURAPTOR
UPDATED: Sunday, May 28, 2023 11:47
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Tuesday, August 24, 2010 4:26 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:



Six MPs among 30 killed in Somalia hotel attack


Two extremist insurgents disguised as government soldiers went on a shooting rampage in a Mogadishu hotel on Tuesday killing 30 people, including six legislators, before blowing themselves up.

The brazen attack by the Al-Qaeda-inspired Al-Shabab just a stone's throw from the presidential palace marked a new escalation on the second day of clashes that had already left 29 civilians dead across the Somali capital.

“Thirty people died in this ambush. Six of them are members of the Somali Parliament and four are Somali government civil servants,” Deputy Prime Minister Abdirahman Haji Adan Ibbi told reporters. “The 20 others are innocent civilians who died in this horrible incident.”

Witnesses and hotel staff said the attackers were wearing government security uniforms and shot dead security guards at the gate as they rushed into the three-storey building. “They rained gunfire on everybody. Nobody stood a chance. I was lucky because they aimed at me but I jumped out of the window and survived,” hotel employee Adan Mohamed told AFP.

Al-Shabab spokesman Sheikh Ali Mohamoud Rage claimed responsibility for the attack. “Our commando units carried out this attack,” he said. The Al-Shabab on Monday launched a major offensive against government army barracks in several Mogadishu districts, sparking clashes that left at least 29 civilians dead.





If that darn Bush hadn't gone into....oh, wait. Where again?

Not Iraq ?

Not Afghanistan ?

Hmm.....


Never mind.










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Wednesday, August 25, 2010 5:52 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


I see the usual suspects have their head shoved deep in the ground....or somewhere that the sun don't shine.




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Wednesday, August 25, 2010 6:05 AM

BYTEMITE


Al Qaeda is in lots of places, and are violent religious zealots that believe their own religion justifies them. Rational people who aren't violent extremists realize religion is no justification, no matter what religion they are.

Sometimes the code of law of a religion will slowly change. They stoned adulters in Jesus' time, right up though the Middle Ages to the Renaissance. European Christians even used to force convert non-believers like Jews and Muslims by law or by conquest.

Muslims in the Arab and African world are maybe 300 years behind the rest of the world, probably because agriculture seems to have gone to hell in those regions. They'll catch up. The ones who have moved to more developed places are catching up at a faster rate, and some of them are honestly indistinguishable from other citizens, aside from the women liking to wear head scarves.

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Wednesday, August 25, 2010 6:12 AM

STORYMARK


Yeah, and?

Get over yourself Rappy. No one is denying the existence of Muslim extremists.

We just don't see their existence as proof that all Muslims are extremists.

Your pathetic fear mongering doesn't change dick, son. As I suggested to you before, time for you to grow a sack and stop trembling at even the thought of a scary Muslim.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Wednesday, August 25, 2010 6:25 AM

KANEMAN


Auraptor you could do this all day every day from news around the world showing some loon blowing something up. my guess is that 99.78% of the time it will be a Muslim, however to some around here that proves nothing. Why bother? You can't change the heart of the unwashed liberal tree hugging hippies that believe in tolerance and equality, regardless of the outcome. Never mind trying to explain that they are the ones Muslims hate and conservatives in a round about way are protecting their rights to be faggots, deviants, and pussies. And that is the naked truth. Fuck 'em.

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Wednesday, August 25, 2010 6:28 AM

JONGSSTRAW


Mexican drug gangs have escalated their violence to a new level recently. They bound up the mayor of Santiago and shot him him the head.
http://articles.latimes.com/2010/aug/19/world/la-fg-mexico-mayor-20100
819


They just found 72 dead Mexicans in one area, killed by drug gangs.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/lt_drug_war_mexico

There were 4 headless bodies left hanging from a bridge last week in a tourist area.

Even churches are reporting they're being shaken down for protection.

The mayor's assassination was an inside job, carried out by some of his own police and bodyguards which the gangs had bribed. The corruption is so widespread that it's crossing over into the US. Another mayor, the mayor of Juarez was just arrested and charged with being on the payroll of a drug gang.

Mexico is on the verge of complete breakdown and anarchy. We are going to have to intervene sooner or later, how exactly I do not know. Obama's signs in the desert warning people to stay away or risk harm from drug gangs is not going to cut it.

Yet with all this violence, who in America would say that Mexicans are all violent people?


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Wednesday, August 25, 2010 6:51 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
Yeah, and?

Get over yourself Rappy. No one is denying the existence of Muslim extremists.

We just don't see their existence as proof that all Muslims are extremists.

Your pathetic fear mongering doesn't change dick, son. As I suggested to you before, time for you to grow a sack and stop trembling at even the thought of a scary Muslim.




Actually, some are denying the existence of Muslim extremists, every time they try to equate such evil to Christian " extremists ".

There is no comparison. And me posting stories like this only goes to prove the point, all the more.

And I'd rather you avert your attention away from my manhood, which I assure you is quite healthy and ample. To the point, ignoring the true nature of radical Islam ( the size of anyone's stuff being irrelevant ) will only add to the bloodshed and more events like we saw in Bali, Madrid, London, Beslan, NYC, D.C. , Ft. Hood......the list goes on and on.

How you or anyone thinks that mentioning one's lack of testicular fortitude in any way alters the facts continues to be a bewildering mystery to me.

No one is 'trembling', here. It's no more than being informed and prepared. They - al Qaeda and those of like mind - have said themselves ,clearly stated and communicated, their intentions.

You want to dismiss, ignore and pretend there's nothing to it, what so ever.

It's always asked, why didn't we do something about Hitler ? How did we not see what was coming ?

Sadly, some simply choose NOT to see.




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Wednesday, August 25, 2010 6:56 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:

Mexico is on the verge of complete breakdown and anarchy. We are going to have to intervene sooner or later, how exactly I do not know. Obama's signs in the desert warning people to stay away or risk harm from drug gangs is not going to cut it.





Oh, grow a pair, Jong. Stop being a little bitty bitch.






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Wednesday, August 25, 2010 7:02 AM

JONGSSTRAW


I already have a nice pair, thank you. What's the beef?

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Wednesday, August 25, 2010 7:51 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Mexican drug gangs have escalated their violence to a new level recently. They bound up the mayor of Santiago and shot him him the head.
http://articles.latimes.com/2010/aug/19/world/la-fg-mexico-mayor-20100
819


They just found 72 dead Mexicans in one area, killed by drug gangs.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/lt_drug_war_mexico

There were 4 headless bodies left hanging from a bridge last week in a tourist area.

Even churches are reporting they're being shaken down for protection.

The mayor's assassination was an inside job, carried out by some of his own police and bodyguards which the gangs had bribed. The corruption is so widespread that it's crossing over into the US. Another mayor, the mayor of Juarez was just arrested and charged with being on the payroll of a drug gang.

Mexico is on the verge of complete breakdown and anarchy. We are going to have to intervene sooner or later, how exactly I do not know. Obama's signs in the desert warning people to stay away or risk harm from drug gangs is not going to cut it.

Yet with all this violence, who in America would say that Mexicans are all violent people?





Although Mexico *IS* overwhelmingly Christian. Roman Catholic, to be exact.

So are all Christians murderous terrorists?

There's plenty of monsters in every religion. The big difference is, you don't really see the religious aspects played up when it's anyone other than Muslims (unless it's PN claiming that it's all the Jews' fault).

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.


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Wednesday, August 25, 2010 7:52 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:

Mexico is on the verge of complete breakdown and anarchy. We are going to have to intervene sooner or later, how exactly I do not know. Obama's signs in the desert warning people to stay away or risk harm from drug gangs is not going to cut it.





Oh, grow a pair, Jong. Stop being a little bitty bitch.









Why are you looking at Jongs's junk?

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.


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Wednesday, August 25, 2010 8:16 AM

THEHAPPYTRADER


Mexico might be predominantly roman catholic, but the drug lords ain't inflicting violence in the name of Jesus, more like in the name of cashy money I'd assume. I'm not claiming to be an expert, and I don't believe Islam is inherently violent, but comparing drug cartel violence to Islamic terrorist and relating it to Christianity just seems silly.

I think that point about about assuming all Mexican's to violent based off of the drug dealers was very well made though.

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Wednesday, August 25, 2010 8:48 AM

MINCINGBEAST


Quote:

Originally posted by TheHappyTrader:
Mexico might be predominantly roman catholic, but the drug lords ain't inflicting violence in the name of Jesus, more like in the name of cashy money I'd assume. I'm not claiming to be an expert, and I don't believe Islam is inherently violent, but comparing drug cartel violence to Islamic terrorist and relating it to Christianity just seems silly.



I grow increasingly frustrated with comparisons between Christian and Muslim extremism, inasmuch as I am capable of frustration.

Whenver the subject of Muslim extremism comes up, folks feel obliged to mention that Christians entertain extremist attitudes, and are often themselves naughty and violent. Whether this is for a rage for balance, or just analogy fail, I cannot say.

Until there is an organized, world-wide Christian movement that uses violence as a tool, with the goal of spreading Christendom everywhere at the edge of the sword, such comparisons are feeble and silly.


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Wednesday, August 25, 2010 8:58 AM

AGENTROUKA


Quote:

Originally posted by mincingbeast:

Until there is an organized, world-wide Christian movement that uses violence as a tool, with the goal of spreading Christendom everywhere at the edge of the sword, such comparisons are feeble and silly.




Used to be, back in the day?

Actually, I agree that there are some serious differences. Plus, it's not necessary to create a Christian equivalent to Al Qaida and the like to make such terrorist organisations distinct from Islam as a general religion.

In terms of source material, I think both Christianity and Islam have the demonstrated potential to be horrific - (or decent).

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Wednesday, August 25, 2010 9:09 AM

MINCINGBEAST


That Christians were formerly more aggressive is accurate, but not on point, unless we argue that Muslim radicals will stop acting like barbarians eventually...like the christians did. I'm not hopeful--we'll all be enslaved and wearing burkas and beards first. Alas.

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Wednesday, August 25, 2010 9:20 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


"Whenver the subject of Muslim extremism comes up, folks feel obliged to mention that Christians entertain extremist attitudes, and are often themselves naughty and violent. Whether this is for a rage for balance, or just analogy fail, I cannot say."


Hello,

I think it depends on what you are trying to say.

For instance, I might say that Zoo A and Zoo B both have antelopes.

And they might say, "That's meaningless, because Zoo A only has ONE antelope, and Zoo B has FIVE!"

I don't think anyone will doubt that Zoo B has the greater number of antelopes.

However, if someone is saying, "We must Boycott Zoo B, because they have ANTELOPES!"

It's not unfair to say, "Well, yes, but Zoo A also has antelopes. If we're going to freak out about the antelopes in Zoo B, shouldn't we freak out about the antelopes in Zoo A?"

An opportunity is always missed here. The person never says, "Zoo A is within my antelope tolerance level. I am prepared to tolerate X amount of antelopes, but X+1 antelopes gives me a tizzy." Which might be an interesting conversation to have.

Instead they say, "That comparison is meaningless! You are an idiot!"

Which is a much less interesting conversation to have.

--Anthony

Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews. I apologize for the inconvenience.

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Wednesday, August 25, 2010 9:36 AM

MINCINGBEAST


We're not talking antelopes, so much as yapping lap dogs (christians) and coyotes (jihadists). Pointing out that the two are not equivalent is not to shut down discussion, but rather to prevent the same, and avoid the tired argument that because Christians may be assholes, jihadists are actually soft and fuzzy in comparison.

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Wednesday, August 25, 2010 9:41 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

Actually, I believe the argument is that they are all assholes, or at least all have assholes.

--Anthony

Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews. I apologize for the inconvenience.

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Wednesday, August 25, 2010 9:47 AM

HKCAVALIER


Quote:

Originally posted by mincingbeast:
Until there is an organized, world-wide Christian movement that uses violence as a tool, with the goal of spreading Christendom everywhere at the edge of the sword, such comparisons are feeble and silly.

The comparison is born not of an objective correlation, but a practical one. Which is more of a threat to me personally, Christian fundies or Muslim fundies? Christian fundies, obviously, because they are far closer to taking control of this nation and persecuting all and sundry than any Muslim group will ever be.

That's been the point all along: yes, Islamic fundamentalists seek to rule the world, bring the decadent West to heel, but it's a gorram pipe dream. Good freakin' luck with that, Osama.

Time was, the evil commies wanted the same thing and they ran themselves straight into the ground. What the makes you think the Muslims will have better luck than the USSR in its heyday??? (Cue the "They're out-breeding us!" argument...)

It's not gonna happen--I don't know what is wrong with y'all that you think we're in such terrible danger from the Muslims. Yes, Muslim terrorists can kill people and blow shit up, but that's it. Without an invading army and military superiority, they got nothing. At best, they could convince us to get the hell out of their backyards (which is a good idea anyway), but they are never gonna run this country (except in the psychological sense of making us turn this country into the racist dictatorship their propagandists believe we already are).

That's why they're not the threat y'all want to pretend they are. That's why folk bring up Christian fundies who are a real threat to the peace of this nation.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Wednesday, August 25, 2010 10:00 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello Mr. Cavalier,

Very well put. In crass terms, the asshole that's shitting in my face every day is more of a threat than the 300 assholes who occasionally splatter something on my shoes.

As for actual flesh and blood carnage?

9/11 has always paled in terms of practical damage when compared to how we responded to it. And how we CONTINUE to respond to it.

--Anthony

Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews. I apologize for the inconvenience.

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Wednesday, August 25, 2010 10:06 AM

MINCINGBEAST


I have elsewhere voiced disdain for fundies, and noted that they offer a more immediate threat to my delicate atheist sensibilities. Jihadists represent a more remote, if existential threat. Still not much cause for comparison, and fundies don't threaten peace so much as my patience.

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Wednesday, August 25, 2010 10:07 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


People who are HONEST about America might find a thought that crossed my mind interesting:

We have backed terrorists.
We have affected countries negatively via surreptitious measures.
We have assassinated people in power.
We have invaded many countries.
We have "bought" governments which abuse their populace to this very day.
We have killed "zillions" of people.
We have overthrown governments.
We have committed atrocities.
We are, to date, the only country to have actually USED a nuclear bomb on another country.

Now, given that, who exactly has attacked us back on our own soil?

Japan, a la Pearl Harbor. Once.
A bunch of countryless terrorists, a la 9/11, etc.

I find it interesting that for all the hair-tearing and screaming about "Islam", comparatively little has been done to our country compared to what we've done to other countries for decades...and we're a YOUNG country!

Today, in 2010, extremists who have no country are attacking many other countries. It's not been like that before; previously wars were fought between nations. But even then, religion was behind, or was used as an excuse for, a lot of wars between countries; catholicism, christianity, were used in their own way, as were others. The Crusades were all about "destroying the infidel", wiping them off the face of the earth, but we keep forgetting that, because it was "way back when" and even tho' we are born of stock which perpetrated those atrocities, hey, that's not us NOW!

Nazis wiped out how many millions? How many of us believe Christianity didn't have its little finger in that; maybe not overtly, but hatred of "the other" was there, persecution of other religions was there quite clearly.

We could get entwined in whether Islam is to blame for Muslim extemists (it's not), whether America's actions around the world contributed to 9/11 (they did), how many Muslims Christianity killed in the Crusades (who knows?), etc. etc. Nobody will change anyone else's mind.

The seemingly DESPERATE need to convince people that Islam is the religion of the devil is sad and somewhat interesting, but that's about all. My goodness, for such an incredibly rich, powerful country, so many of us sure shake in our boots and piss in our pants over a bunch of extremists who wouldn't stand ten seconds against us in battle, have been under our thumb for generations, so are fighting back in the only way they can, ugly, evil, vicious as it is.

This happened in Somalia, right? When is the last time anyone in America gave a rat's ass what was happening in Somalia (except our government, which recognizes a country without a government which is a danger on the high seas and a hotbed of terrorists)? Somalia is wide open and insane; there is no law, no government, and people are killing one another in the streets. So a bombing is a sign of Islam??? Wow, you must really be scared...or desperate to make others scared, not sure which.

Wasn't someone here shocked to learn that some people blame Islam for 9/11? Here you go, right here among us, those who firmly believe Islam is the religion of the devil, that all Muslims are evil people bent on destroying others. Shocking, isn't it?

Not really, it's the way an awful lot of America is behaving lately. How strange that such a fear-monger who used fear to gain power as Bush was able to quiet people down in their anti-Islam hatred, but no sooner do we get a Black, Democratic President than people start being ENCOURAGED to view all Muslims as the enemy, Islam as the religion behind everything evil in the world. I mean, these guys are GREAT manipulators; "don' wan' no trouble while OUR guy is in power, but by gawd, let one of "them" get in power, and we'll bring the house down around your ears!"

Be afraid...very afraid...but not of Muslims or Islam. See who the real enemy is; he walks among us.

Just sayin'.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off




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Wednesday, August 25, 2010 10:13 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by kaneman:
however to some around here that proves nothing.



When the premise is "All Muslims are EEEEVVVIIIIILLLL" then you are correct - it proves nothing, because it is utter bullshit.

If it's to prove some Muslims are bad, well... it's pointing out the fucking obvious.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Wednesday, August 25, 2010 10:13 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Oh, Cav, BEAUTIFULLY SAID!
Quote:

Which is more of a threat to me personally, Christian fundies or Muslim fundies? Christian fundies, obviously, because they are far closer to taking control of this nation and persecuting all and sundry than any Muslim group will ever be.

That's been the point all along: yes, Islamic fundamentalists seek to rule the world, bring the decadent West to heel, but it's a gorram pipe dream. Good freakin' luck with that, Osama.

Time was, the evil commies wanted the same thing and they ran themselves straight into the ground. What the makes you think the Muslims will have better luck than the USSR in its heyday??? (Cue the "They're out-breeding us!" argument...)

It's not gonna happen--I don't know what is wrong with y'all that you think we're in such terrible danger from the Muslims. Yes, Muslim terrorists can kill people and blow shit up, but that's it. Without an invading army and military superiority, they got nothing. At best, they could convince us to get the hell out of their backyards (which is a good idea anyway), but they are never gonna run this country (except in the psychological sense of making us turn this country into the racist dictatorship their propagandists believe we already are).

That's why they're not the threat y'all want to pretend they are. That's why folk bring up Christian fundies who are a real threat to the peace of this nation.

Very good! Muslim extremists can cause problems in this country and others, but they are not a POWER, they will never have the money, political power or any other to overrun the country. They fight us the only way they know how, individually. It's horrible. It kills innocents. But if one wants to point out every bad thing done by Muslim extremists what about all the bad things done by dictators and all the others who use nationality, philosophy, religion or whatEVER tool they can grab to commit atrocities? Would it have been any more than passing interest if a bunch of Hindus tossed a bomb in Pakistan (they did, you know...)?

No. The fear-mongering is focused on Islam; fear it, fear them, hate it, hate them...and of course Obama MUST be Muslim, so fear and hate him, too, 'cuz guess who that'll put in power?

Not that any will, but how about asking who all this fear and hatred benefits? THERE is your enemy.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off




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Wednesday, August 25, 2010 10:14 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:



Actually, some are denying the existence of Muslim extremists,



Prove it, chump.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Wednesday, August 25, 2010 10:16 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Just to add, when I started reading this thread the first two to respond were Byte and Story, and I thought their posts pretty much summed up any needed response. That was about when the first post I put up occurred to me, but I forgot to add to that my thanx to Byte and Story for summing up all that really needed saying. The thread could easily have ended right there.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off




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Wednesday, August 25, 2010 10:39 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Mincing, my response to
Quote:

Until there is an organized, world-wide Christian movement that uses violence as a tool, with the goal of spreading Christendom everywhere at the edge of the sword, such comparisons are feeble and silly.
would be
Quote:

There is far more violence in the Bible than in the Qur'an; the idea that Islam imposed itself by the sword is a Western fiction, fabricated during the time of the crusades when, in fact, it was Western Christians who were fighting brutal holy wars against Islam. All monotheistic religions, and not just Islam, have their fair share of violent and intolerant scriptures, as well as bloody histories. Thus, whenever Islam's sacred scriptures—the Qur'an first, followed by the reports on the words and deeds of Muhammad (the Hadith)—are highlighted as demonstrative of the religion's innate bellicosity, the immediate rejoinder is that other scriptures, specifically those of Judeo-Christianity, are as riddled with violent passages.

More often than not, this argument puts an end to any discussion regarding whether violence and intolerance are unique to Islam. Therefore, before condemning the Qur'an and the historical words and deeds of Islam's prophet Muhammad for inciting violence and intolerance, Jews are counselled to consider the historical atrocities committed by their Hebrew forefathers as recorded in their own scriptures; Christians are advised to consider the brutal cycle of violence their forbears have committed in the name of their faith against both non-Christians and fellow Christians. In other words, Jews and Christians are reminded that those who live in glass houses should not be hurling stones.

How come we keep on asking the same question, [about violence in Islam,] and don't ask the same question about Christianity and Judaism? Jews and Christians have engaged in acts of violence. All of us have the transcendent and the dark side. … We have our own theology of hate. In mainstream Christianity and Judaism, we tend to be intolerant; we adhere to an exclusivist theology, of us versus them. An article by Pennsylvania State University humanities professor Philip Jenkins, "Dark Passages," delineates this position most fully. It aspires to show that the Bible is more violent than the Qur'an:
Quote:

In terms of ordering violence and bloodshed, any simplistic claim about the superiority of the Bible to the Koran would be wildly wrong. In fact, the Bible overflows with "texts of terror," to borrow a phrase coined by the American theologian Phyllis Trible. The Bible contains far more verses praising or urging bloodshed than does the Koran, and biblical violence is often far more extreme, and marked by more indiscriminate savagery. … If the founding text shapes the whole religion, then Judaism and Christianity deserve the utmost condemnation as religions of savagery.

Several anecdotes from the Bible as well as from Judeo-Christian history illustrate Jenkins' point, but two in particular—one representative of Judaism, the other of Christianity—are regularly mentioned and therefore deserve closer examination.

The military conquest of the land of Canaan by the Hebrews in about 1200 B.C.E. is often characterized as "genocide" and has all but become emblematic of biblical violence and intolerance. God told Moses: [quote[But of the cities of these peoples which the Lord your God gives you as an inheritance, you shall let nothing that breathes remain alive, but you shall utterly destroy them—the Hittite, Amorite, Canaanite, Perizzite, Hivite, and Jebusite—just as the Lord your God has commanded you, lest they teach you to do according to all their abominations which they have done for their gods, and you sin against the Lord your God.

So Joshua [Moses' successor] conquered all the land: the mountain country and the South and the lowland and the wilderness slopes, and all their kings; he left none remaining, but utterly destroyed all that breathed, as the Lord, God of Israel had commanded.

As for Christianity, it is impossible to find New Testament verses inciting violence, as those were purged when the New Testament was created. Those who espouse the view that Christianity is as violent as Islam rely on historical events such as the Crusader wars waged by European Christians between the eleventh and thirteenth centuries. The Crusades were in fact violent and led to atrocities by the modern world's standards under the banner of the cross and in the name of Christianity. After breaching the walls of Jerusalem in 1099, for example, the Crusaders reportedly slaughtered almost every inhabitant of the Holy City. According to the medieval chronicle, the Gesta Danorum, "the slaughter was so great that our men waded in blood up to their ankles."

In light of the above, as why should Jews and Christians point to the Qur'an as evidence of Islam's violence while ignoring their own scriptures and history?




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Wednesday, August 25, 2010 10:54 AM

MINCINGBEAST


I fail to see how the historical naughtiness of Jews and Christians, or the violent idiocy in their books, excuses current muslim misconduct. Islam was spread by the sword (see generally the Balkans, Spain, the Indian subcontinent). The same is true of Christianity. The latter, however, doesn't seem to have many adherents trying to spread it by the sword in 2010.

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Wednesday, August 25, 2010 11:06 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


I wasn't saying it justified anything. Remember, I am the Godess of Perspective. I speak merely to the fact that considering Islam an evil religion discounts the equivalent evils done by other religions. Ergo, it is a fallacy.

As a bit of a refutation of your statement, please see my new post on "Let's compare", rather than have me go into it here. There are more than a few adherents of Christianity today still trying to spread it in ways you might not approve, and saying "now is more valid than then" is kind of a weak argument. Please take a look at said post, which offers the suggestion that Islam has FOLLOWED and paralleled Christianity in their actions throughout history. Two sides of the same coin: religious extremism.


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Wednesday, August 25, 2010 11:18 AM

BYTEMITE


Eh, well. To be completely, completely fair, the Turks conquered themselves a gigantic empire at about the time of the Crusades, and you did have some Moorish incursion into Spain as well.

The Crusades were brutal, arguably more brutal than the initial takeover of Jerusalem warranted, but there HAVE been Islamic nations that grew by conquering people, and they did kick out people who believed different.

Most religions on earth I think are guilty of this. I want to say maybe Buddhists didn't, considering they preferred to send out traveling missionaries in small batches as opposed to armies, but then again some of those missionaries, like Ta Mo (using his Chinese name 'cause the Indian name escapes me), could have single-handedly taken OUT an entire army by themselves.

Ah, here he is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Da_mo

Talk about your badass preacher-man. That guy, right there. Founded KUNG FU in the form of temple boxing. And a Buddhist.

Anyway, I'm actually kind of with mincingbeast and the others here. I'm atheist, but even though I find a lot of Christian American ideas in America somewhat quaint, I don't actually see that Christians are any real kind of power group or that we are in danger of a Christian takeover. The religious right thing as I see it are a group who someone goes to if they want to rile up a response, not a group they take orders from. Notable exceptions are certain very Christian generals we've had over in the Middle East who do see this as a new Crusade. But their leash is generally held by the neo-cons. Slightly more concerning are the intelligence agencies that seem to share a similar mindset, but I'm not sure that isn't Christianity so much as it is power-mad paranoia.

One place where the Christian right is cow-towed to is about homosexuality and abortion, so in that case you might be justified in being wary, but otherwise politically they don't have much say so.

And it's also not the best analogy to compare somewhat extreme American Christian groups who might withhold aid if you don't convert (jerkasses) to very extreme Muslim terrorist groups who will blow themselves up in a town square (flat fucking nuts).

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Wednesday, August 25, 2010 11:21 AM

MINCINGBEAST


My statement, shaky though it is, is in little danger of refutation, and I fear you have an excess of perspective. I despise religion in general, yet even I am able to admit differences and degrees in religious extremism. See, some extremists are content to waive a "god hates fags" sign at you. Others won't be happy til they slit your infidel throat. I never thought that pointing out the obvious could be so problematic. And while the former is more of an issue in my day to day life, I still find the latter offensive and detestable, without need for qualification.

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Wednesday, August 25, 2010 11:36 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


I don't see any qualification of what Muslim extremists do by putting it in historical perspective. Please check out that post, I made a joke at the end, but the material should give you a true view of the point I'm trying to make.

I wasn't trying to say Christian extremists are as dangerous here, now, as Muslim terrorists are now, anywhere, but that both have done very similar things throughtout history, so neither is better than the other in that respect.

While we find what's happening NOW to be one way, what has happened BEFORE has been the other, or yet one different from either. I see almost every religion, or person within that religion, as capable o horrific things, GIVEN the time, conditions, situation, power of those preaching that religion, and on and on.

I have more fear of Christian fundamentalists HERE by far, insofar as they can affect the laws by which I live, than I do the Muslim extremists anywhere, given I have FAR more chance of dying in a car crash than anything terrorist-like happening to me. But that doesn't mean I think one is any more evil than the other, just that both religions can be used wrongly to incite people.

I also happen to agree with Byte in that
Quote:

The religious right thing as I see it are a group who someone goes to if they want to rile up a response, not a group they take orders from
--I think their time has passed to have any real power except on a state level...Bush made them think they were coming into power, but it turned out he was just using them for the most part. But they CAN affect legislation, and an individual one of them CAN do things which impact my life, so it is they I would fear first.


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Wednesday, August 25, 2010 11:39 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


"excuses current muslim misconduct."

Hello,

I hope no one has excused anything.

Is that what it sounds like, then? That would explain a lot of the abrasiveness on this issue.

It's not "Christians and Muslims both produce fucktards, so Muslims are okay when they are fucktards."

I believe it's more a suggestion that all Fucktards be dealt with in equal terms, and on specific terms.

When we target the people who share the religion of Fucktard A, while ignoring the people who share the religion of Fucktard B, we need to examine ourselves and our motives.

i.e. Muslims didn't attack the U.S. Muslims aren't responsible for placating our fears and insecurities about those attacks. There is no reason to target Muslims in regards to the construction location of their temples or other buildings.

Fucktards did do those horrible things, but Fucktardery is such an amorphous, nebulous thing that people can't grab ahold of it or point to it or protest the location of its buildings. We can declare war on it, but we can't always find it, or contain it, or beat it. So we see Fucktardery where it doesn't exist.

Hey, if Muslims have a higher percentage of Fucktardery per capita, let's just paint the brush clear across the whole lot, ESPECIALLY when they want to make a preposterous declaration like, "We're not all Fucktards."

And that's the purpose of all these analogies, counter-analogies, comparisons, and metaphors. To try and make people see that it is Fucktardery that unifies these Fucktards, and not religion.

At the end of the day, people who didn't do a horrible illegal thing are being persecuted for the audacity of doing a different legal thing next to the first thing that they didn't do.

That bothers some of us to no end.

If it bothers you, too, Mince, help us refine and improve our argument.

--Anthony





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Wednesday, August 25, 2010 12:01 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Ahhhh! "What Anthony Said"...thank you Anthony, for being able to say clearly what I couldn't.


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Wednesday, August 25, 2010 12:05 PM

HKCAVALIER


Y'know, Mince, the devil for whom you're advocating is kind of a ninny. If indeed Islam has "adherents trying to spread it by the sword in 2010" then where are they, what is their impressive strategy against us and, most importantly, whom have they already conquered in 2010?

Seems to me, WE conquered largely secularist Iraq FOR THEM, far more effectively than they ever could--though I'm sure Iran will be happy to take our sloppy seconds. Your argument HINGES on this cockamamie notion of ISLAMINTERN, some kinda harebrained domino theory--well, where are the freakin' dominoes?

Meanwhile, we had a rather vocal Christian General conquering the evil Muslims until just a few months ago. Our "Christian nation" has conquered, or at least trashed and currently dominates two ostensibly Muslim nations--and counting. In this context, saying that "Islam is evil" is not just a bigoted opinion, it is a bigoted foreign policy and a stated justification for world domination--by us!

Maybe your statement can't be refuted because it's trivial--so narrowly focused as to be worthless except as a propagandist's talking point.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Wednesday, August 25, 2010 12:16 PM

MINCINGBEAST


Nothing bothers me but Muslims, of whose spilled blood I am awful fond. Actually, inconsistency bothers me, so long as it is not my own.

When a believer misbehaves and justifies his conduct by pointing to the Koran, there is a tendency to blame the individual and behave as if he came up with the notion with no context. When a believer misbehaves and cites Jesus, there is a tendency to blame the Bible. There are offensive passages in the Christians holy book to be sure, and those that counsel violence. But as repeatedly stressed, who most often cites them? Proud christians with blood on their hands, or my fellow atheists when discussing islamic violence?

The issue troubles, because 1) I hate to agree with the religious right on anything and 2) I have been trained to forbear picking on minorities.

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Wednesday, August 25, 2010 12:22 PM

FREMDFIRMA



Three times Niki - don't forget WTC 1993 as well, and WHO gave them the bomb, hmmm ?

As for christian "forebearance" here - well why should they let slip the mask, they GOT what they wanted, a government and society that pounds THEIR principles home every bloody chance it gets...

Seriously, just think what my opinion of laws against adultery, bigamy, same-sex marriage and the like ARE as a Polyamorous Anarchist ?

Do you think those are MY values ?

And yet they are codified into law!

And so it is, the christians do not HAVE to commit that level of violence here because they simply have the state do it for them - to the degree that outright violence is no longer necessary in the course of ramming their values down everyones throat.

Just because that aggression takes place behind the perceived legitimacy of a tin badge, a wooden gavel, or a tax collectors pen, instead of AK-47s, honor killings and thrown stones, makes it no less a form of aggression, no less an offense, and no less morally wrong.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Wednesday, August 25, 2010 12:24 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


I'm confused. Could you clarify that, Mincing? I've heard an awful lot of fundamentalists explain their actions, hate, discrimination AND VIOLENCE by quoting passages from the Bible, so what are you saying? Or are you being facetious?

I actually haven't heard Muslim extremists quote the Q'ran, either, except to spout something about killing the infidel or something. Maybe I"m not paying close enough attention....

Given I've been citing instances from the Bible, and tho' I'm buddhist, not atheist, I got the feeling you were talking to me, but no matter how many times I re-read it, I can't understand what you're saying.

Maybe the heat's getting to me...

ETA: I don't actually think of either book when someone does something violent, by the way. I think of the PEOPLE IN AUTHORITY in their religion who "interpret" the tenants of the religion who made them think what they're doing is "right".


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Wednesday, August 25, 2010 12:26 PM

MINCINGBEAST


Quote:

Originally posted by HKCavalier:
Y'know, Mince, the devil for whom you're advocating is kind of a ninny. If indeed Islam has "adherents trying to spread it by the sword in 2010" then where are they, what is their impressive strategy against us and, most importantly, whom have they already conquered in 2010?

Seems to me, WE conquered largely secularist Iraq FOR THEM, far more effectively than they ever could--though I'm sure Iran will be happy to take our sloppy seconds. Your argument HINGES on this cockamamie notion of ISLAMINTERN, some kinda harebrained domino theory--well, where are the freakin' dominoes?

Meanwhile, we had a rather vocal Christian General conquering the evil Muslims until just a few months ago. Our "Christian nation" has conquered, or at least trashed and currently dominates two ostensibly Muslim nations--and counting. In this context, saying that "Islam is evil" is not just a bigoted opinion, it is a bigoted foreign policy and a stated justification for world domination--by us!

Maybe your statement can't be refuted because it's trivial--so narrowly focused as to be worthless except as a propagandist's talking point.

HKCavalier
B]



Thank you for recognizing my narrowness and great skill at propaganda. I feel you are due equal praise for your inability to argue coherently.

First, I dispute the characterization of the US as a Christian nation. I concede that the US recently played a major role in shit-canning two predominantly Muslim nations, but didn't that have more to do with oil than theology? Unless invaded Iraq for the express purpose of Christianization.

Moreover,if I do have an argument, it does not hinge on ISLAMINTERN, but rather the recognition that people who do violence in the name of Allah are, to some degree, organized. Is the Catholic church, or an equivalent Christian movement, currently advocating the violent overthrow of non-Christian governments? Do Methodists bomb unbelievers? Does Al Qaeda have a christian cognate? Obviously not. The point is that the scope and scale of extremism and vastly different, and yet we insist on equating them anyway.

In this, the comparison is so broad and fuzzy, so as to be utterly worthless. Sort of like your posts. ;)



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Wednesday, August 25, 2010 12:27 PM

THEHAPPYTRADER


I'm curious if there is a way to argue the point of Islam being peaceful or violent or whatever, without the need to compare it to Christianity and how more, less, or equal they measure in peace and violence? Or is Christianity the standard the we measure all religions against?

'Course I'm not entirely sure what the argument was meant to be... so if this is supposed to be about Christians vs Muslims... then it's stupid. And I suppose you can disregard my post.

Religions do not commit atrocities, people do. Corrupted religious interpretation is merely a tool, kinda like political parties.

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Wednesday, August 25, 2010 12:30 PM

KANEMAN


Quote:

Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello,

Actually, I believe the argument is that they are all assholes, or at least all have assholes.

--Anthony

Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews. I apologize for the inconvenience.




Reading through this whole thread, once again Mince and Auraptor have the only logical and rational argument. The rest of you sound like irrational liberals trying to compare apples to whales. Therefore, the only thing I will add to this thread is a thought to Anthony. If they are all assholes and have assholes maybe you could steer them to mince's post about using said assholes as drug factories. Jenkem.. life changing.

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Wednesday, August 25, 2010 12:34 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


I agree 100% Frem, and feel the same as you do.

It goes even further, too. When doing things via legal methods doesn't work, they are quite adept at finding other ways, again sans violence. Look how difficult it is for a woman to get an abortion in our country? It's still LEGAL, but the law does no good when one can find other ways of making it difficult to OBTAIN an abortion.

You probably already know about this one, just recently:
Quote:

Virginia abortion rights advocates saw it coming. After Ken Cuccinelli, a rising Republican star known for his hard-line stances on most social issues, was elected state attorney general last year, they knew it was only a matter of time before he zeroed in on abortion.

Earlier this week, Cuccinelli issued a legal opinion advising the state of Virginia to tighten regulation of abortion clinics, holding them to the same standards as hospitals. Abortion-rights groups believe that these regulations would force the majority of the state's clinics out of business.

Cucinelli's tactic is not new. In 2001, Mother Jones ran a story about the rise of what abortion rights advocates call TRAP laws, short for Targeted Regulation of Abortion Providers. The article, written by Barry Yeoman and titled "The Quiet War on Abortion," detailed the anti-abortion movement's shift from targeting the legality of the procedure to applying pressure on its providers:
Quote:

The new stealth strategy has its genesis in the 1992 U.S. Supreme Court decision Planned Parenthood v. Casey. The ruling reaffirmed 1973's Roe v. Wade, signaling that overt bans on abortion were unlikely to pass constitutional muster. But it also declared for the first time that states have some authority to regulate abortion clinics, as long as they don't place an "undue burden" on women's access to abortions.

The Casey decision started abortion opponents rethinking their tactics. Since direct assaults on Roe wouldn't fly, "there had to be a shift in strategy by regulation on the outskirts of abortion," says Dorinda Bordlee, staff counsel for Americans United for Life. That's when leaders developed a new approach: Couch the issue in terms of women's health. By claiming that abortions take place in dirty facilities and cause such illnesses as depression and breast cancer, right-to-lifers realized they could subtly move the focus of the debate.

According to NARAL Pro-Choice America, varying degrees of TRAP laws have passed in 44 states plus the District of Columbia. While he was a Virginia state senator, Cuccinelli pushed for the passage of stringent new regulation of abortion clinics. Tarina Keene, the executive director of NARAL Pro-Choice Virginia, explained that Cuccinelli's previous efforts were stymied by a slim Democratic majority in the state Senate that blocked his proposals from reaching the floor. She is not surprised that he is using his current post to try to circumvent the legislature to achieve his longstanding goals.

There go 17 of the 21 remaining abortion clinics in Virginia, if he makes it work.

Yes, they're quite active still and will always be with us no doubt. Sickening...and of course Republicans want the government OUT of our private lives...and on and on and on...




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Wednesday, August 25, 2010 12:36 PM

MINCINGBEAST


Goddamn it, I have been associated with Kane and Auraptor. I do not agree with them, I am guilty by association, I am heartbroken. I do not believe that Islam is any more inherently wicked that Christianity, only that Islam as practiced by Jihadists is more pernicious than Christianity as practiced by Fred Phelps. There is nothing left for me to do but go hit the Jenkem bottle.

Let's go get high on sewage, Kane.

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Wednesday, August 25, 2010 12:40 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:


Actually, some are denying the existence of Muslim extremists, every time they try to equate such evil to Christian "extremists".



Prove it, or withdraw that ridiculous accusation. Show me where ANYONE has denied the existence of Muslim extremists.

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.


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Wednesday, August 25, 2010 12:47 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


"I'm curious if there is a way to argue the point of Islam being peaceful or violent or whatever, without the need to compare it to Christianity and how more, less, or equal they measure in peace and violence?"

Hello,

Yes, this can be done.

The Quran is the story of a selfish, arrogant, egotistical entity who created the world and peopled it. He then set those people against one another and their own built-in desires while insisting that they praise him for it. This results in large scale violence and bloodshed for the majority, and many unhappy endings. A few are selected by the creator to live in an idealized paradise.

On the whole, it is a violent, bloodthirsty, and immoral bastard of a book. It is peppered with passages that give lip-service to good behavior and kindness, but the preponderance of actual events speaks against this. Any religion or philosophy derived from this book would have to interpret its contents creatively or use its passages selectively in order to create a system of belief that is either 'good' or at least 'non contradictory.' Otherwise the work is a mess, with any 'common theme' subverted at various points by happenings or creator-demands that appear to be in opposition to the majority of the narrative. All in all, if one applies an objective lens, one can only conclude that the divinity of the story is either sadistic, insane, or a child learning and changing right alongside his creation.

This is my Book Report on the Quran, without referencing any other religion or religious text.

--Anthony

Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews. I apologize for the inconvenience.

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Wednesday, August 25, 2010 12:50 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by TheHappyTrader:


Religions do not commit atrocities, people do.





And that, my dear Trader, is entirely the point. Congrats on being among the first to actually get it.

Point out an atrocity committed by "Islam", and I can as easily point out an atrocity committed by "Christianity" (and I haven't even mentioned our "crusade" - Bush's word, not mine - against Iraq).

But nobody wants to hear that argument, nobody wants to admit that Christians have been every bit as much the monsters as anyone else. Point out the epic humanity-fails in the name of Christianity, and they are very quick to point out that that isn't the whole religion.

And so far, not one other poster around here has agreed that if we can't allow a "mosque" (which isn't a mosque at all, any more than a battleship is a church) to be built near ground zero, then certainly we shouldn't allow churches to be built... well, ANYWHERE, when you think about it, because we're never more than a couple blocks from where some Native Americans were wiped out by "good Christian folks" in this country.

Islam didn't commit 9/11. People did. They're dead. This alleged "mosque" has no connection to them. If it did, I've no doubt that Imam Rauf would be sitting in Gitmo now, not charged, but not free either.

And there's another building right in New York, close to Ground Zero, that's known for spewing nothing but hatred, lies, and propaganda, and is linked to terrorism at least as much as Imam Rauf is: it's called "Fox News Studios".

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.


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Wednesday, August 25, 2010 12:51 PM

KANEMAN


Quote:

Originally posted by mincingbeast:
Goddamn it, I have been associated with Kane and Auraptor. I do not agree with them, I am guilty by association, I am heartbroken. I do not believe that Islam is any more inherently wicked that Christianity, only that Islam as practiced by Jihadists is more pernicious than Christianity as practiced by Fred Phelps. There is nothing left for me to do but go hit the Jenkem bottle.

Let's go get high on sewage, Kane.



I never said any of what you just said i said but seeing I am high on my own sewage i will have to agree to disagree and am evil and have never known how to punctuate but am worse now than ever because my sewage is great.....Go Muslims!!!!!

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Wednesday, August 25, 2010 12:51 PM

MINCINGBEAST


*staggers away from thread, fecal matter on face, huge ammount of jenkem in lungs, holding kane's hand*

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Wednesday, August 25, 2010 12:59 PM

KANEMAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:

Originally posted by TheHappyTrader:


Religions do not commit atrocities, people do.





And that, my dear Trader, is entirely the point. Congrats on being among the first to actually get it.

Point out an atrocity committed by "Islam", and I can as easily point out an atrocity committed by "Christianity" (and I haven't even mentioned our "crusade" - Bush's word, not mine - against Iraq).

But nobody wants to hear that argument, nobody wants to admit that Christians have been every bit as much the monsters as anyone else. Point out the epic humanity-fails in the name of Christianity, and they are very quick to point out that that isn't the whole religion.

And so far, not one other poster around here has agreed that if we can't allow a "mosque" (which isn't a mosque at all, any more than a battleship is a church) to be built near ground zero, then certainly we shouldn't allow churches to be built... well, ANYWHERE, when you think about it, because we're never more than a couple blocks from where some Native Americans were wiped out by "good Christian folks" in this country.

Islam didn't commit 9/11. People did. They're dead. This alleged "mosque" has no connection to them. If it did, I've no doubt that Imam Rauf would be sitting in Gitmo now, not charged, but not free either.

And there's another building right in New York, close to Ground Zero, that's known for spewing nothing but hatred, lies, and propaganda, and is linked to terrorism at least as much as Imam Rauf is: it's called "Fox News Studios".

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.




Sure. Niki already has a post about really really old atrocities committed by Christians. That you missed Mince's perfectly stated posts is not a wonder at all, what else would I expect from a gay, anti-logical, anti-American...shipping clerk. What do you ship? I think you should be investigated. Let's talk about now. Let's stay relevant...Inhale the shit you spew here and I will guarantee it will change your life...just add a couple rotten sardines to your bottle of sewage.

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Wednesday, August 25, 2010 1:00 PM

THEHAPPYTRADER


Huh, interesting. Oh and I wasn't calling you out or anything, was just getting sick of the all the "yeah but christian's are worse" arguments. Thanks :)

Maybe Islam isn't so peaceful after all, but I'll wait until I've done personal research into it before committing to that opinion.

Edit: peaceful origins or no, it's still people responsible, regardless

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