Okay, this is a group of mostly intelligent, educated people, so I’m sure the majority of us understand biodiversity to a degree. But it came up recentl..."/>
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REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS
On biodiversity
Wednesday, September 8, 2010 11:28 AM
NIKI2
Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...
Quote:Biodiversity is the degree of variation of life forms within a given ecosystem, biome, or on an entire planet. Biodiversity is one measure of the health of biological systems. Life on Earth today consists of many millions of distinct biological species. Biologists most often define biodiversity as the "totality of genes, species, and ecosystems of a region". A complex relationship exists among the different diversity levels. Identifying one level of diversity in a group of organisms does not necessarily indicate its relationship with other types of diversities. All types of diversity are broadly linked and a numerical study investigating the link between tetrapod (terrestrial vertebrates) taxonomic and ecological diversity shows a very close correlation between the two. The existence of a "global carrying capacity", limiting the amount of life that can live at once, is debated, as is the question of whether such a limit would also cap the number of species. Changes in diversity are guided by a first-order positive feedback (more ancestors, more descendants) and/or a negative feedback arising from resource limitation. Most biologists agree that the period since human emergence is part of a new mass extinction, named the Holocene extinction event, caused primarily by the impact humans are having on the environment. It has been argued that the present rate of extinction is sufficient to eliminate most species on the planet Earth within 100 years. Biodiversity supports a number of natural ecosystem processes and services. Some ecosystem services that benefit society are air quality, climate (e.g., CO2 sequestration), water purification, pollination, and prevention of erosion. Since the stone age, species loss has accelerated above the prior rate, driven by human activity. The exact rate is uncertain, but it has been estimated that species are now being lost at a rate approximately 100 times as fast as is typical in the fossil record, or perhaps as high as 10,000 times as fast. Land is being transformed from wilderness into agricultural, mining, lumbering and urban areas for humans. The reservoir of genetic traits present in wild varieties and traditionally grown landraces is extremely important in improving crop performance. Important crops, such as the potato, banana and coffee, are often derived from only a few genetic strains. Improvements in crop species over the last 250 years have been largely due to harnessing genes from wild varieties and species. Interbreeding crops strains with different beneficial traits has resulted in more than doubling crop production in the last 50 years as a result of the Green Revolution. Crop diversity is also necessary to help the system recover when the dominant cultivar is attacked by a disease or predator: --The Irish potato blight of 1846 was a major factor in the deaths of one million people and the emigration of another million. It was the result of planting only two potato varieties, both of which proved to be vulnerable. --When rice grassy stunt virus struck rice fields from Indonesia to India in the 1970s, 6,273 varieties were tested for resistance. Only one was resistant, an Indian variety, and known to science only since 1966. This variety formed a hybrid with other varieties and is now widely grown. --Coffee rust attacked coffee plantations in Sri Lanka, Brazil, and Central America in 1970. A resistant variety was found in Ethiopia. Although the diseases are themselves a form of biodiversity. --Monoculture was a contributing factor to several agricultural disasters, including the European wine industry collapse in the late 19th century, and the US Southern Corn Leaf Blight epidemic of 1970. Although about 80 percent of humans' food supply comes from just 20 kinds of plants, humans use at least 40,000 species. Many people depend on these species for their food, shelter, and clothing. Earth's surviving biodiversity provides as little-tapped resources for increasing the range of food and other products suitable for human use, although the present extinction rate shrinks that potential Biodiversity's relevance to human health is becoming an international political issue, as scientific evidence builds on the global health implications of biodiversity loss. This issue is closely linked with the issue of climate change, as many of the anticipated health risks of climate change are associated with changes in biodiversity (e.g. changes in populations and distribution of disease vectors, scarcity of fresh water, impacts on agricultural biodiversity and food resources etc.) Some of the health issues influenced by biodiversity include dietary health and nutrition security, infectious diseases, medical science and medicinal resources, social and psychological health. One of the key health issues associated with biodiversity is that of drug discovery and the availability of medicinal resources. A significant proportion of drugs are derived, directly or indirectly, from biological sources; At least 50% of the pharmaceutical compounds on the US market are derived from compounds found in plants, animals, and microorganisms, while about 80% of the world population depends on medicines from nature (used in either modern or traditional medical practice) for primary healthcare. Moreover, only a tiny proportion of the total diversity of wild species has been investigated for medical potential. Through the field of bionics, considerable advancement has occurred which would not have occurred without rich biodiversity. It has been argued that the decline in output from the pharmaceutical sector since the mid-1980s can be attributed to a move away from natural product exploration ("bioprospecting") in favor of genomics and synthetic chemistry, neither of which have yielded the expected breakthroughs; meanwhile, natural products have a long history of supporting significant economic and health innovation. A wide range of industrial materials derive directly from biological resources. These include building materials, fibers, dyes, rubber and oil. Further research into employing materials from other organisms is likely to improve product cost and quality. Biodiversity is also important to the security of resources such as water quantity and quality, timber, paper and fibre, food and medical resources. As a result, biodiversity loss is increasingly recognized as a significant risk factor in business development and a threat to long term economic sustainability. Biodiversity provides many ecosystem services that are often not readily visible. It plays a part in regulating the chemistry of our atmosphere and water supply. Biodiversity is directly involved in water purification, recycling nutrients and providing fertile soils. Experiments with controlled environments have shown that humans cannot easily build ecosystems to support human needs; for example insect pollination cannot be mimicked, and that activity alone represents tens of billions of dollars in ecosystem services per year to humankind. Ecosystem stability is also positively related to biodiversity, protecting them ecosystem services from disruption by extreme weather or human exploitation. Jared Diamond describes an "Evil Quartet" of habitat destruction, overkill, introduced species, and secondary extensions.] Edward O. Wilson prefers the acronym HIPPO, standing for Habitat destruction, Invasive species, Pollution, Human Over Population, and Overharvesting. The most authoritative classification in use today is IUCN’s Classification of Direct Threats. Rates of decline in biodiversity in this sixth mass extinction match or exceed rates of loss in the five previous mass extinction events recorded in the fossil record. Loss of biodiversity results in the loss of natural capital that supplies ecosystem goods and services. The economic value of 17 ecosystem services for the entire biosphere (calculated in 1997) has an estimated average value of US$ 33 trillion (1012) per year!
Wednesday, September 8, 2010 4:48 PM
FREMDFIRMA
Wednesday, September 8, 2010 5:03 PM
CHRISISALL
Thursday, September 9, 2010 2:25 AM
KANEMAN
Thursday, September 9, 2010 3:17 AM
JONGSSTRAW
Quote:Originally posted by chrisisall: Biodiversity is over-rated. We need white rice, white fish, white onions and white people.
Thursday, September 9, 2010 4:12 AM
BYTEMITE
Quote:Man can live in a cave and do just fine. Ask the Muslims how much biodiversity they have in that fucking sand they live in. A helluva lot less than those brown-skin fucks swinging on vines in the jungles of south America. Now ask yourself. Who has a better life? Who is more developed?
Thursday, September 9, 2010 9:28 AM
Quote:When a bird experiences stress, either physically or emotionally, its metabolic response is to activate the sympathetic nervous system. This is a component of the autonomic nervous system that prepares the body for action during the fight-or-flight response. Some of the physiological changes that take place are increased sugar and fats into the bloodstream, the production of more adrenaline, cortisol, and glucagon into the blood, a decrease in digestive function, increased blood pressure, heartbeat, breathing rate, muscle tension and, thus, the creation of more energy. Corticosterone is the main hormone produced by birds in response to stress. It causes many changes in behavior and physiology, helping the bird to cope with stressful stimuli. Stress may also manifest inward to one of the organ systems, such as the nervous system, circulatory, or digestive system. Stress increases the metabolism of proteins, fats, and carbohydrates. There is an increased excretion of amino acids, potassium, and phosphorus and a decreased storage of calcium. All birds carry yeast, bacterial and viral cells but, under healthy conditions, they remain in small numbers and harmless. However, at stressful times, when the immune system is weakened, these opportunistic microorganisms may proliferate and birds then become more vulnerable to the development of an infection.
Quote:All wild animals stress easily in captivity and oiled birds typically suffer stress from the effects of the oil, capture and transport. Before they can be washed they must be stabilized or the additional stress of the wash process could kill them. Stabilizing most oil-affected animals requires medical treatments under veterinary supervision and intensive supportive care for at least 48 hours. When a bird arrives at the center, a thorough physical exam determines the condition of the bird and the degree of oiling. Frequently, oiled birds are debilitated either by the toxic effects of ingesting oil, or by exhaustion/starvation. The oil may cover only a small patch, or the bird may be totally soaked in oil. Immediately following its initial examination, it is fed a rehydration solution through a tube inserted into its stomach. The solution treats dehydration commonly seen in oiled aquatic birds, which can be life threatening, absorbs digested oil from the birds digestive tract, and flushes out the birds system. Preliminary treatment and stabilization helps the bird regain its strength before the cleaning process begins. The bird is discouraged from preening itself and ingesting oil by being kept in a warm, quiet environment until it becomes alert and responsive, and ultimately, ready to be washed. An oiled bird is not able to thermo regulate their internal body temperature, so it is stabilized in a warm environment and monitored closely for signs of hypo- and hyperthermia. The bird is constantly monitored for stress, dehydration and disease, and is given intensive supportive nutrition and hydration therapy for at least two days or until it is strong enough to withstand the cleaning procedure.
Quote:Pelicans, like penguins, can tolerate the stress of rehabilitation much better than birds like loons and murres for example (both of which species tend to rarely even see humans). One recent example was a brown pelican, oiled and rehabilitated, during the American Trader spill in 1990 in Southern California. This bird was sighted still alive in Newport Beach earlier this year, 20 years on, and is considered one of the oldest brown pelicans ever recorded. While it's impossible to predict the future, these are very healthy and strong birds and have a good chance at surviving the rehabilitation process. The majority of these birds are handling the stress of oiling, washing and rehabilitation extremely well, as expected. Over 300 of them have been cleaned and are in outside aviaries at this time getting ready for release. Brown pelicans typically have a high survival rate in oil spills when they are captured early on and given the appropriate care, as has happened here to date.
Quote:Recent studies indicate that birds can be successfully rehabilitated and returned to the wild, where many survive for years and breed. The papers cited by opponents of oiled bird rehabilitation tend to rely on anecdotal band returns (meaning there is no daily tracking method for individuals released and no control groups observed). These surveys are misleading because they fail to consider some important variables: the protocols used to care for the birds in question, the experience of the organization caring for the oiled birds and basic things like how the bird’s health and water proofing were assessed prior to release.
Thursday, September 9, 2010 9:35 AM
Thursday, September 9, 2010 10:10 AM
PERFESSERGEE
Quote:Originally posted by Fremdfirma: I did wanna ask you something about birds though, which I think got lost in the shuffle and certain assholes endless hostility - during the cleanup of the local spill up here, I was asked to use my wildlife-calming trick on birds, you see... When they pick em up, they don't clean em right away, and they like, hold em overnight or something, during which they lose a lot of em, and from my understanding they freak themselves out to death or something ? I don't really understand that, and was hopin you could explain it to me - cause my lil trick, it only takes a minute or so, but once done, it's almost a given THAT bird is gonna make it, but still it has to be done individually and it's kinda stressful in a mental sense, made all the worse since I kept having to run back over to the spill and chase off well-meaning idiots who didn't seem to have any clue how bloody toxic that crap is, so it was all really frustrating and I didn't manage to get any understanding of WHY, which might be helpful to know. Hell, I don't even like mosta them damn birds, they're friggin obnoxious, but I did feel sorry for em, they looked so pathetic. Anyhow, what makes em drop dead like that, heart rate, overstress, what ? Cause if I know, I might be able to refine that trick or even teach it to others who have the knack, and that'd be a right useful thing. -Frem I do not serve the Blind God.
Thursday, September 9, 2010 10:29 AM
Thursday, September 9, 2010 11:22 AM
Thursday, September 9, 2010 1:03 PM
Thursday, September 9, 2010 1:15 PM
Thursday, September 9, 2010 2:13 PM
Thursday, September 9, 2010 2:27 PM
MAGONSDAUGHTER
Thursday, September 9, 2010 2:30 PM
Quote:Originally posted by Bytemite: I'd hazard a guess and say that all the agitation of a distressed, oil covered bird suddenly registers as less important when "oh no! predator has me!" Animals will initially struggle at first, but once they adjust to the concept of "predator holding me. not being eaten?" they seem to calm down. I'm not sure why this would continue to be a calming influence even when the animals are then introduced to an unfamiliar environment, but perhaps the reaction to "predator!" and the associated relief of "not eaten" is just that strong. I've noticed this myself, Frem.
Thursday, September 9, 2010 2:34 PM
Thursday, September 9, 2010 3:15 PM
Quote:Originally posted by Niki2: Oops, I think Magons nailed that one. Many captured animals "shut down" after their initial resistance, she's right.
Thursday, September 9, 2010 4:08 PM
Thursday, September 9, 2010 5:47 PM
KWICKO
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)
Quote:Originally posted by Niki2: I have a feeling many HAVE been written, Magons, and I agree wholeheartedly. Just look at Cesar Millan!
Thursday, September 9, 2010 8:09 PM
Friday, September 10, 2010 6:15 AM
Friday, September 10, 2010 9:15 AM
Friday, September 10, 2010 3:56 PM
Friday, September 10, 2010 4:29 PM
Friday, September 10, 2010 6:07 PM
Friday, September 10, 2010 8:48 PM
Friday, September 10, 2010 9:24 PM
1KIKI
Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.
Friday, September 10, 2010 10:28 PM
PIZMOBEACH
... fully loaded, safety off...
Quote:Originally posted by 1kiki: Biodiversity is over-rated. We need white rice, white fish, white onions and white people. You forgot mayonnaise! YEAH! bland white food for bland white people, and bland white people for bland white food!
Friday, September 10, 2010 11:43 PM
Saturday, September 11, 2010 6:30 AM
Quote:Agriculture and thermoelectric power generation account for about 80 percent of water withdrawals in North America. Irrigation is a particular threat. The Oglala Aquifer underneath the Great Plains has water resources equivalent to Lake Huron, but it is being depleted by irrigation faster than it can recharge.
Saturday, September 11, 2010 11:24 AM
Saturday, September 11, 2010 3:20 PM
Quote:Originally posted by kaneman: Well magonsdaughter, I meant compared to other countries. From coast to coast we take up a lot of space (lng and lat)..Have the icy waters of Maine and the desert, the great plains,and the Rockies, the bou of La, and the swamps of Florida, deltas, forests, old growth forests...I could go on forever...What I mean is we are not an island nation or an inter-continent country...We are a continent and have the biodiversity that made it possible to build the greatest nation this world has ever seen...Do you know America is the only nation on earth that can feed itself?...year round.....with no help from the outside. Canada can't do it, Russia can't do it, England can't do it...No other nation can do it. We can feed 350 million because of our size, climate, and biodiversity....And our women are fucking hot.
Saturday, September 11, 2010 3:43 PM
Saturday, September 11, 2010 4:03 PM
Saturday, September 11, 2010 5:56 PM
Saturday, September 11, 2010 10:49 PM
Quote:Originally posted by Kwicko: Magons, doesn't Australia feed itself? It's for sure the U.S. doesn't. Maybe the U.S. *CAN*, but it currently DOESN'T. Just go to the grocery store and see where the produce is coming from: everywhere but here, basically. Now go look at the seafood section. "Wild caught, product of China", "Imported from Chile", etc. Where in the U.S. do they grow Folger's Coffee, anyway? Or cocoa? I'll grant you Hawaii grown pineapples and produces sugar, but most of ours come from elsewhere nowadays.
Sunday, September 12, 2010 6:25 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Magonsdaughter: Quote:Originally posted by kaneman: Well magonsdaughter, I meant compared to other countries. From coast to coast we take up a lot of space (lng and lat)..Have the icy waters of Maine and the desert, the great plains,and the Rockies, the bou of La, and the swamps of Florida, deltas, forests, old growth forests...I could go on forever...What I mean is we are not an island nation or an inter-continent country...We are a continent and have the biodiversity that made it possible to build the greatest nation this world has ever seen...Do you know America is the only nation on earth that can feed itself?...year round.....with no help from the outside. Canada can't do it, Russia can't do it, England can't do it...No other nation can do it. We can feed 350 million because of our size, climate, and biodiversity....And our women are fucking hot. So do you eat your women when things are tough? Seriously, your posts make me puke they are so filled with self congratulatory egotistic tripe. Have you ever been anywhere else? Do you know anything about the rest of the world, other than it's 'not as good as we are' and 'full of people who hate us' - You've got a big country with a lot of diverse habitats - that's true. It's also true that you displaced a helleva lot of people accumulating that aforesaid increadible richly resourced land mass - perhaps a little less hubris would make that easier to tolerate. Remember that the long fought over area of land known as ' the fertile crescent' was said to be the cradle of civilisation, and is now an overpopulated, conflict riddled, ecologically damaged piece of real estate.
Sunday, September 12, 2010 6:28 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Magonsdaughter: Quote:Originally posted by Kwicko: Magons, doesn't Australia feed itself? It's for sure the U.S. doesn't. Maybe the U.S. *CAN*, but it currently DOESN'T. Just go to the grocery store and see where the produce is coming from: everywhere but here, basically. Now go look at the seafood section. "Wild caught, product of China", "Imported from Chile", etc. Where in the U.S. do they grow Folger's Coffee, anyway? Or cocoa? I'll grant you Hawaii grown pineapples and produces sugar, but most of ours come from elsewhere nowadays. I'm pretty sure we could, but we don't either. We have a variety of habitats, from tropical, temperate through to desert...so we can grow a lot of diverse stuff, but we only have a population of 22 mill or thereabouts, and the debate is on about how many mouths we can supply with food - given water is scarcer on our continent than yours.
Sunday, September 12, 2010 6:43 AM
Sunday, September 12, 2010 11:00 AM
Sunday, September 12, 2010 11:32 AM
Sunday, September 12, 2010 1:31 PM
Quote:Originally posted by kaneman: Quote:Originally posted by Magonsdaughter: Quote:Originally posted by kaneman: Well magonsdaughter, I meant compared to other countries. From coast to coast we take up a lot of space (lng and lat)..Have the icy waters of Maine and the desert, the great plains,and the Rockies, the bou of La, and the swamps of Florida, deltas, forests, old growth forests...I could go on forever...What I mean is we are not an island nation or an inter-continent country...We are a continent and have the biodiversity that made it possible to build the greatest nation this world has ever seen...Do you know America is the only nation on earth that can feed itself?...year round.....with no help from the outside. Canada can't do it, Russia can't do it, England can't do it...No other nation can do it. We can feed 350 million because of our size, climate, and biodiversity....And our women are fucking hot. So do you eat your women when things are tough? Seriously, your posts make me puke they are so filled with self congratulatory egotistic tripe. Have you ever been anywhere else? Do you know anything about the rest of the world, other than it's 'not as good as we are' and 'full of people who hate us' - You've got a big country with a lot of diverse habitats - that's true. It's also true that you displaced a helleva lot of people accumulating that aforesaid increadible richly resourced land mass - perhaps a little less hubris would make that easier to tolerate. Remember that the long fought over area of land known as ' the fertile crescent' was said to be the cradle of civilisation, and is now an overpopulated, conflict riddled, ecologically damaged piece of real estate. Not my fault people got displaced...it is what it is, and happened long before I was born. My reality is that I was born in the greatest nation humanity has ever known, I have no guilt about that. Don't be jealous you could always move here....Gotta go. Have two huge 2.5 inch rib-eyes on the grill. Football baby....real football.. Another American great. Have a lovely day somewhere not as lovely as where I am.
Sunday, September 12, 2010 3:15 PM
REENACT12321
Monday, September 13, 2010 2:49 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Magonsdaughter: Quote:Originally posted by kaneman: Quote:Originally posted by Magonsdaughter: Quote:Originally posted by kaneman: Well magonsdaughter, I meant compared to other countries. From coast to coast we take up a lot of space (lng and lat)..Have the icy waters of Maine and the desert, the great plains,and the Rockies, the bou of La, and the swamps of Florida, deltas, forests, old growth forests...I could go on forever...What I mean is we are not an island nation or an inter-continent country...We are a continent and have the biodiversity that made it possible to build the greatest nation this world has ever seen...Do you know America is the only nation on earth that can feed itself?...year round.....with no help from the outside. Canada can't do it, Russia can't do it, England can't do it...No other nation can do it. We can feed 350 million because of our size, climate, and biodiversity....And our women are fucking hot. So do you eat your women when things are tough? Seriously, your posts make me puke they are so filled with self congratulatory egotistic tripe. Have you ever been anywhere else? Do you know anything about the rest of the world, other than it's 'not as good as we are' and 'full of people who hate us' - You've got a big country with a lot of diverse habitats - that's true. It's also true that you displaced a helleva lot of people accumulating that aforesaid increadible richly resourced land mass - perhaps a little less hubris would make that easier to tolerate. Remember that the long fought over area of land known as ' the fertile crescent' was said to be the cradle of civilisation, and is now an overpopulated, conflict riddled, ecologically damaged piece of real estate. Not my fault people got displaced...it is what it is, and happened long before I was born. My reality is that I was born in the greatest nation humanity has ever known, I have no guilt about that. Don't be jealous you could always move here....Gotta go. Have two huge 2.5 inch rib-eyes on the grill. Football baby....real football.. Another American great. Have a lovely day somewhere not as lovely as where I am. And just how big is your car?
Monday, September 13, 2010 7:23 AM
Monday, September 13, 2010 8:16 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Magonsdaughter: And just how big is your car?
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