In response to those who keep claiming Islam is a religion of violence, not peace:[quote]Last week, New York University hosted the Intelligence Squared D..."/>
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Islam, religion of peace
Monday, October 11, 2010 8:20 AM
NIKI2
Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...
Quote:Last week, New York University hosted the Intelligence Squared Debates at its Skirball Center for the Performing Arts. Four panelists, two for and two against, presented arguments on the motion of "Islam Is a Religion of Peace." About 800 showed up to learn the answer. The Muslim community is by no means monolithic and viewing us as one is problematic. We are diverse. Yet we find ourselves in a moment in which we are very narrowly understood. That normative understanding is equated to something radical, despite the fact that 93 percent of Muslims are found to be far from radical according to recent Gallup surveys. What becomes more problematic is that typically when one of us from that 93 percent steps up to speak, we are vehemently told that we either do not represent Islam or even more absurdly that we are not truly practicing Islam's teachings. Zeba Khan, a panelist for the "Islam Is a Religion of Peace" last week, was met with such a response. She started off the debate by sharing her personal story about growing up in Ohio, attending a Hebrew Day School, and being raised by Indian parents in a Muslim household. "Just because you may not hear us," said Khan," doesn't mean we are not speaking." Ayaan Hirsi Ali , speaking against the motion, followed Zeba and immediately said, "The problem with Islam is who speaks for Islam." She went on to say, "I concede (the radical voice) is a minority," and expressed her desire that someone like Zeba Khan actually would speak for Islam, but, in her opinion, could not and does not. And so Zeba's voice, her interpretation, and all of her efforts were collectively dismissed since she did not fit into what Hirsi Ali believed Islam to be. Maajid Nawaz, Zeba Khan's co-panelist for the motion, was dismissed just as easily. "This debate is not about making excuses for terrorism," he said. "This debate acknowledges that Muslims bear a responsibility in reclaiming their faith from a minority." If anyone understands the issues of that minority voice it is Nawaz. Having been a member of the political party Hizb ut-Tahrir for 14 years, Nawaz was a founding member in Denmark and Pakistan. In his own words, he eventually served a sentence for four years in an Egyptian prison as an Amnesty International prisoner of conscience, and during them that time broke away from Hizb ut-Tahrir's ideology. He has since dedicated his life to counter-radicalism initiatives and seeks to uphold the responsibility that he spoke of through his work. He even uniquely acknowledges the presence of a radical element in Islam and how its misinterpretation is still in fact an interpretation that needs to be dealt with. Despite this, those opposed to the motion told him that it is his peaceful understanding of Islam that is rooted in misinterpretation, since it does not match up with the interpretation put forth by the radical minority, and thus somehow ignores the fundamentals of Islam since those groups somehow are the end-all be-all of what Islam actually means. That a peaceful interpretation of the religion, or even one that is non-radical, can only exist by ignoring fundamental texts is flawed in its logic. Characteristic of any text - whether religious or not - is its ability to be interpreted through the lens of its reader. Interpretations of the Quran that espouse ideas of tolerance, compassion and mercy have existed and continue to exist in the majority of Muslim communities since the advent of Islam 1400 years ago. As much as Muslims need to acknowledge the existence of a minority voice that is radicalized, so too does a broader society need to acknowledge the existence of a majority voice that is not radicalized and more importantly condemns radical thought. There are those who make Islam to be something restrictive and radical, but there are many, many more who do not. Moderating the panel last week, ABC News correspondent John Donvan said speaking to those against the motion, "You are making it sound like Islam is what you make it to be. Why then can it not be the peaceful Islam that we see being practiced by so many around the world?" The answer, Mr. Donvan, is that it can be, and for the majority of us, it is.
Monday, October 11, 2010 4:25 PM
AURAPTOR
America loves a winner!
Tuesday, October 12, 2010 1:43 AM
QUESTIONABLEQUESTIONALITY
Tuesday, October 12, 2010 2:15 AM
JONGSSTRAW
Tuesday, October 12, 2010 3:02 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Jongsstraw: That looks like a lot of Muslim violence, but it really isn't. Most of that stuff occurred in Afghanistan and Iraq, which are understandably violent due to the war going on. Ever watch Lock Up on MSNBC? Ever hear those stories of what those Americans did to other Americans? It's frightening and chilling. Or the un-imagineably horrific Connecticut home invasion case that just concluded, no Muslims involved there.
Tuesday, October 12, 2010 8:05 AM
KWICKO
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)
Tuesday, October 12, 2010 8:09 AM
Quote:Originally posted by QuestionableQuestionality: Quote:Originally posted by Jongsstraw: That looks like a lot of Muslim violence, but it really isn't. Most of that stuff occurred in Afghanistan and Iraq, which are understandably violent due to the war going on. Ever watch Lock Up on MSNBC? Ever hear those stories of what those Americans did to other Americans? It's frightening and chilling. Or the un-imagineably horrific Connecticut home invasion case that just concluded, no Muslims involved there. Did Americans kill Americans in the name of god? Not really. Take Afganistan and Iraq out of that list and it is still HUGE.
Tuesday, October 12, 2010 8:55 AM
Tuesday, October 12, 2010 10:16 AM
FREMDFIRMA
Tuesday, October 12, 2010 10:29 AM
BLUEHANDEDMENACE
Tuesday, October 12, 2010 12:58 PM
Quote:Originally posted by BlueHandedMenace: Indeed, that list of "muslim violence" is imposing...for about 30 seconds, til u notice it is a list of three years worth of incidents and there are 11,000 gun deaths in the USA PER YEAR kinda puts your list to shame actually...in the scheme of things i would say the muslims are waaaaay behind on their quotas.
Tuesday, October 12, 2010 1:01 PM
Quote:The edition also includes "The Ultimate Mowing Machine," which describes how to use a pickup truck "as a mowing machine, not to mow grass, but mow down the enemies of Allah." It says "to achieve maximum carnage, you need to pick up as much speed as you can while still retaining good control . . . to strike as many people as possible in your first run."
Tuesday, October 12, 2010 1:27 PM
Tuesday, October 12, 2010 1:44 PM
Quote: Once again, the attempt is made to say.... "Islam is a violent religion". It...just...won't...fly.
Tuesday, October 12, 2010 2:06 PM
Quote:B) "Al-Qaeda magazine"??? This represents Islam?
Tuesday, October 12, 2010 2:07 PM
Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: Quote: Once again, the attempt is made to say.... "Islam is a violent religion". It...just...won't...fly. It's not an " attempt ", ma'am. It's the way of things. You not liking it doesn't change matters.
Tuesday, October 12, 2010 2:19 PM
MAL4PREZ
Quote:Originally posted by Kwicko: And again, if people are going to INSIST that every crime, every murder, every rape, every molestation that occurs in a predominantly Muslim nation like Iraq or Afghanistan is automatically, 100% caused by Islam, then I think it's only fair to put every single death in the U.S. - or at least the same percentage as their are Americans who claim to be "Christian" - on that religion. After all, y'all claim that we live under Judeo-Christian law, right? Just seems like you ought to be playing all by the same rules, is all.
Tuesday, October 12, 2010 2:27 PM
Quote:Originally posted by Kwicko: And you not liking Islam doesn't make it evil.
Tuesday, October 12, 2010 3:27 PM
Quote: There you go again, putting the cart before the horse. Maybe Islam was evil FIRST, which causes me to not like it ?
Quote: However, I fully acknowledge that a Muslim might be a decent person and upstanding American citizen. I not only see it as a very real possibility, I claim it to be a fact, until proven otherwise.
Tuesday, October 12, 2010 3:34 PM
Tuesday, October 12, 2010 4:17 PM
Tuesday, October 12, 2010 4:34 PM
Quote: Why is it so important to interject into anything positive put up about Muslims or Islam mention of terrorism, bad things done by anyone in a Muslim country, etc., etc.?
Quote: THEN, what do you propose we do about the violence done by Muslims, other than screaming at one another?
Tuesday, October 12, 2010 4:56 PM
Quote:brought upon SPECIFICALLY for the glory of Allah
Quote:raise awareness. Acknowledge the problem. Get people talking and standing up to these thugs. ALL people,including 'REAL' Muslims, who aren't afraid to stand up to the PC NAZIs and will face the issue in the full light of day.
Tuesday, October 12, 2010 5:14 PM
Tuesday, October 12, 2010 6:07 PM
Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: Sorry Niki, I don't buy your premise that EVERYONE knows about terrorism.
Quote: How much coverage have we ( here in the US ) really seen of the horrific attacks in Mumbai? Beslan ? Bali ? Too far away?
Quote: What of the Major who shot up Ft Hood? Or the Times Square bomber ?
Quote: And while we do get stories on these guys, we ALSO get nonsensical counter stories, based purely on speculation, about how one was 'stressed' and maybe that caused him to snap...or he lost his job, and had mortgage payments due.... or maybe he was somebody upset at the healthcare bill passed..... please!
Quote: The news is watered down, packaged and tailor made by folks who want to present to us a puppet theatre. They're hell bent on only giving us a version of the story which will keep us in check and more focused on which survivor will be voted off the island, or who'll get to stay in the bachelorette house for another night. You see things being reported in a manner which fans the flames of fear and distrust. I see it the exact opposite. They're not over playing the terrorism threat, they're minimizing it. What's going on is barely getting a brief mention before it's off to report the sports and the weather. I have no particular use for religion, as I've made clear, time and time again. Practice what you want, pray to what ever you'd like, just not on my boat. But I'm sure as hell not going to sit by and pretend something isn't going on because it upsets the sensibilities of a few who simply refuse to see the world as it is.
Quote: Just leave well enough alone ? Hell no. Not when we have folks who are promoting the murder of civilians , after having praised the murder of civilians, time and time again.
Quote: Niki, you quite literally do NOT get it, and it's clear you never will. Why ? Because you CHOOSE to not understand it. I sincerely hope that no one you ever know has any close calls or worse with these ' religion of peace' types you claim hardly even exist.
Wednesday, October 13, 2010 3:53 AM
Wednesday, October 13, 2010 8:12 AM
Quote:you claim hardly even exist
Quote:“Mr. President--you're a god damn, mother fucking liar. Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.... oh, go fuck yourself, Mr. President” ”Anthony--go fuck yourself...make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard” ”Frem--You miserable piece of shit” ”Niki--My guess is it won't just be your ugly face you dislike....if you had a soul.” ”Kwicko--You're the putrid slime which oozes between troll's toes, you're so low.” ...sayeth Raptor
Wednesday, October 13, 2010 8:18 AM
THENEWIMPROVEDKANEMAN
Quote:Originally posted by Fremdfirma: Well, shit, QQ - Detroit can better those casualty figures any day of the week, this is supposed to impress me... How, exactly ? -F
Wednesday, October 13, 2010 8:22 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Niki2: Don't start right off with a blatant lie:Quote:you claim hardly even existI've been very clear that terrorism is a serious problem, that there are many terrorists, so that is an out-and-out lie. I have also said that they are a minority of the millions AND MILLIONS of peaceful Muslims in the world, but that in no way equates to "hardly even exist". Unfortunately for you, everything Mike has said is true. I see DAYS worth of coverage on terrorist attacks, on everything from cable to network to MSNBC to CNN and on. I don't know what you're watching, but it's covered extensively. Hell, Maddow even WENT to Afghanistan for a whle week and talked to the soldiers there, that was her entire program for a full week. Network "reporters" have done the same, and given us blow-by-blow video of the atrocities. How can you begin to say it's not covered? That's insane. Sure, the news is infotainment manipulation. But if anything, it is geared toward scaring the pants off us and convincing us ALL Muslims are violent terrorists, or would be given half a chance. Ft. Hood, Mumbai, Times Square, they were covered FOR DAYS...how can you claim otherwise? To try to do so is totally absurd and deluded, if you’re serious, which I doubt you are. I think you’d only be happy with wall-to-wall coverage, 24/7 of the atrocities, and nothing less. Got news for you; when the same things happen again and again, they don’t constitute “news” to be focused on, torn apart bit by bit, especially in the midst of an upcoming midterm. It takes the BIG stuff to make the news...and the big stuff does. You’re disingenuous statement that there is ANYONE who doesn’t know about the terrorist threat is pathetic on the face of the fact that you keep claiming 70% of the population is against the New York Community Center. Why would they fear that and hate the idea so much if they didn’t think Islam equated somehow to terrorism? The bullshit about it being a “victory mosque”, a place for conspirators to gather, yada, yada, is a clear indication of the state of the country: In large part, they have been conditioned to fear and hate anything Muslim. What we don’t hear about AT ALL, and you can’t deny this, is all the Muslims denouncing terrorism, demonstrating against it, protesting it. How often do we hear about that, and in contrast, how often do we hear the cry that “Muslims should speak out against terrorism!” THAT’s what people are unaware of...terrorism is shoved down our throat virtually daily on every form of media. In your world, it’s only Muslims who can’t crack under pressure and do horrific things. That’s very sad and extremely bigoted. Americans—NON-Muslim Americans—kill people in multiples all the time, that makes the news too, and they try to profile the “whys” of it just as they do ANY killings...not terrorist killings overseas, but individuals here in America who use Islam as a subconscious rationalization for acting out violently. What about the white guy flying into the IRS? Was HE a Muslim terrorist? What about Jeffrey Dahlmer, or any of the other murderers, or the anti-abortion doctor killers? It’s insane to say that someone raised in our culture, whatever their background, ONLY goes on a rampage and kills people “in the name of Allah”. “In the furtherance of life” is the cry from anti-abortion people; do you really believe that’s their only motivation? Do you really think just any American flies off for psychologically sick reasons, but every Muslim who does so is doing so because he’s Muslim? I’m sure, actually, that you do. Double standards are bullshit. Mike is also right in that the odds of my being involved in, or even KNOWING anyone involved in, a terrorist attack of any kind are miniscule compared to those of me being killed in an auto accident, raped and killed, robbed and killed, car jacked, or any of the myriad other ways Americans die DAILY. It’s patently irrational to be so obsessed as to think otherwise. I would actually say “insane” again, because that’s precisely what your determined stand is: “being afflicted by or manifesting unsoundness of mind or an inability to control one's rational processes”. Obsessive, too: “to haunt or excessively preoccupy the mind”. You are bewitched, dominated, gripped, held, possessed, prepossessed; bedeviled, beset, dogged, haunted, plagued, troubled by the concept of Muslim terrorism, to the point where you are unable to see reality. Reality, simply put, is: There is a severe terrorist threat in the world today. By and large that threat is caused by Muslim terrorists. Muslim terrorists make up a small portion of the millions of Muslims around the world. The chances of anyone IN AMERICA ever being affected by Muslim terrorism is miniscule. Islam is not a terrorist religion. Our government, military and politicians, and through them our media, have an agenda that includes fanning the flames of hatred and fear of anything Muslim or having to do with Islam. That’s the whole story. And I'se got news for you: Our military doesn't care much about "collateral damage" either; we know it, it seeps through despite their efforts to censor it. The vast majority of the time we hear "Huzzah! Our drones killed X terrorists!", and no mention of how many others were killed as well. You can't deny that. They do their very best to keep the truth of collateral damage from us, and only a small sliver gets through. There is also nothing childish or otherwise in Mike quoting your obscenities; you wrote them, you are responsible for them. You know I have many more, I just got tired of having them muck up my signature. As a reminder: Quote:“Mr. President--you're a god damn, mother fucking liar. Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.... oh, go fuck yourself, Mr. President” ”Anthony--go fuck yourself...make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard” ”Frem--You miserable piece of shit” ”Niki--My guess is it won't just be your ugly face you dislike....if you had a soul.” ”Kwicko--You're the putrid slime which oozes between troll's toes, you're so low.” ...sayeth RaptorWhat's petty and imbicilic, and more, is your having written those things, not others reminding us of it. Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani, Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”, signing off
Wednesday, October 13, 2010 8:59 AM
Wednesday, October 13, 2010 12:56 PM
Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: Your childish sign off tells everyone what sort of petty imbecile you are.
Quote: I'm done shoving your face in the mud. It's become tiresome.
Wednesday, October 13, 2010 1:03 PM
Quote:Originally posted by thenewimprovedkaneman: Quote:Originally posted by Fremdfirma: Well, shit, QQ - Detroit can better those casualty figures any day of the week, this is supposed to impress me... How, exactly ? -F I'll answer. I think the "in the name of god" part is what you are missing. Americans kill each other over money, drugs, and anger. Rarely in the name of god. Rapt's point is that the religion is fostering lots of killers in the name of their god. I think your comment misses the point and may be better off in another thread.
Wednesday, October 13, 2010 3:00 PM
Quote:"Ever wonder what the gods think of money, look at the people they give it to..." -Caine
Wednesday, October 13, 2010 4:26 PM
KANEMAN
Quote:Originally posted by Niki2: If so, I apologize, I had to dig them back up. It would no doubt have been you, whichever misquote I put up...which one, so I can correct it, please? Why can't you and yours just stick to your own handle and stop proving over and over that you are quite capable of making sockpuppets? What is it that makes you feel you need to come in as "another person" anyway? It's strange. I have yet to see anything "new" or "improved", by the way...or did the "Question" alias just not work well enough, given we figured it out in about two seconds? Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani, Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”, signing off
Thursday, October 14, 2010 9:53 PM
CATPIRATE
Sunday, September 12, 2021 4:59 PM
JAYNEZTOWN
Quote: America's problem isn’t "violent extremism," it's radical Islam
Sunday, September 12, 2021 5:55 PM
6IXSTRINGJACK
Sunday, September 12, 2021 7:01 PM
1KIKI
Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.
Quote:Originally posted by JAYNEZTOWN: The Taliban regime | Return of the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan https://www.thehindu.com/news/international/the-taliban-regime-return-of-the-islamic-emirate-of-afghanistan/article36407047.ece Afghan women can study at university but classes must be segregated - Taliban https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/world/2021/09/afghan-women-can-study-at-university-but-classes-must-be-segregated-taliban.html Biden Asks Congress to Rush Afghan Citizenship Before Vetting https://www.city-data.com/forum/politics-other-controversies/3301606-biden-asks-congress-rush-afghan-citizenship.html Quote: America's problem isn’t "violent extremism," it's radical Islam https://www.city-data.com/forum/politics-other-controversies/3302319-americas-problem-isn-t-violent-extremism.html Women in Afghanistan will only be allowed to study in universities in gender-segregated classrooms and Islamist mohammedan Sharia Law dress codes? https://gandhara.rferl.org/a/afghanistan-taliban-women-university/31456438.html The botched withdrawal from Afghanistan will cost humanity greatly https://www.dailynews.com/2021/09/12/the-botched-withdrawal-from-afghanistan-will-cost-humanity-greatly/ Afghanistan in 1970 vs 2021. See if you can spot the difference. https://www.usmessageboard.com/threads/afghanistan-in-1970-vs-2021-see-if-you-can-spot-the-difference.919111/
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