[quote]George Bush's memoir only hit bookshelves Tuesday, but already one prominent ex-world leader says the former president isn't being truthful when i..."/>

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Bush lying, says ex-German leader

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Thursday, November 11, 2010 08:36
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Wednesday, November 10, 2010 12:12 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:
George Bush's memoir only hit bookshelves Tuesday, but already one prominent ex-world leader says the former president isn't being truthful when it comes to his description of a 2002 conversation about the possible use of force in Iraq.

Former German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder, who left office in 2005, is disputing a passage in Bush's new book that claims Schroeder privately offered the president full-fledged support in 2002 should he decide to invade Iraq.

"The former American president is not telling the truth," Schroeder said Tuesday according to the German newspaper Der Spiegel.

In his new book Decision points, Bush writes that in a January 2002 White House meeting with Schroeder, the German leader said of possible force in Iraq: "What is true of Afghanistan is true of Iraq. Nations that sponsor terror must face consequences. If you make it fast and make it decisive, I will be with you."

"I took that as a statement of support," Bush writes of the conversation. "But when German elections arrived later that year, Schroeder had a different take. He denounced the possibility of using force against Iraq."

Speaking Tuesday, Schroeder said the 2002 meeting was actually focused on the mere possibility former Iraqi President Saddam Hussein had anything to do with the September 11 attacks, and said he made no unequivocal commitments

"Just as I did during my subsequent meetings with the American president, I made it clear that, should Iraq ... prove to have provided protection and hospitality to al Qaeda fighters, Germany would reliably stand beside the US," Schroeder said of his comments to the president. "This connection, however, as it became clear during 2002, was false and constructed."

Bush, whose relationship with Schroeder quickly turned frosty after the chancellor expressed opposition to the war, writes he was "shocked and furious" with the actions of his ally, especially after the German justice minister accused Bush of acting like Adolf Hitler in his efforts to "divert attention from domestic political problems."

"It was hard to have a constructive relationship again," Bush writes of his future relations with Schroeder.
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2010/11/10/ex-german-chancellor-a
ccuses-bush-of-untruths-in-memoir/#more-134656


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off




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Wednesday, November 10, 2010 12:23 PM

CANTTAKESKY


Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
....especially after the German justice minister accused Bush of acting like Adolf Hitler in his efforts to "divert attention from domestic political problems."


Snicker. Touché!

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Wednesday, November 10, 2010 12:23 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



They disagree, it seems. Doesn't make anyone a liar here.

But love the revisionist history, Niki.



"The modern definition of 'racist' is someone who is winning an argument with a liberal."


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Wednesday, November 10, 2010 12:45 PM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Quote:
They disagree, it seems. Doesn't make anyone a liar here.

Well they both have different recollections. Schroeder's has more of a ring of truth to it (why would he commit to supporting an invasion of Iraq before a firm link to 9/11 had been established?)

Quote:
But love the revisionist history, Niki.


Lol, Bush's memoirs are not established history to be 'revised'.

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Wednesday, November 10, 2010 12:52 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:
Originally posted by kpo:
Quote:
They disagree, it seems. Doesn't make anyone a liar here.

Well they both have different recollections. Schroeder's has more of a ring of truth to it (why would he commit to supporting an invasion of Iraq before a firm link to 9/11 had been established?)

Quote:
But love the revisionist history, Niki.


Lol, Bush's memoirs are not established history to be 'revised'.


There never WAS a " firm link " to Iraq and 9/11. Not sure what you're even talking about.

And yes, Bush's memoirs ARE established history.

"The modern definition of 'racist' is someone who is winning an argument with a liberal."


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Wednesday, November 10, 2010 12:52 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Boy, KPO, you got that right. Bush's book IS revisionist history, pure and simple. Trying to say each remembered it differently is a pathetically weak attempt to rationalize his out-and-out lies; and that's not the only one in his book...


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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Wednesday, November 10, 2010 12:55 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Niki - there were no lies by Bush here. You're simply being the petty, partisan nut case that you've shown yourself to be, time and time again.

Pity.

"The modern definition of 'racist' is someone who is winning an argument with a liberal."


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Wednesday, November 10, 2010 12:57 PM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Quote:
There never WAS a " firm link " to Iraq and 9/11. Not sure what you're even talking about.


No, I never said there was (!!). At the time of the phone call it was perhaps still an open question though.

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Wednesday, November 10, 2010 1:00 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:
Originally posted by kpo:
Quote:
There never WAS a " firm link " to Iraq and 9/11. Not sure what you're even talking about.


No, I never said there was (!!). At the time of the phone call it was perhaps still an open question though..


Perhaps ? How about, not a chance in hell. Afghanistan was the response to 9/11, remember ? By 2002, we were ALREADY IN AFGHANISTAN !!!

"The modern definition of 'racist' is someone who is winning an argument with a liberal."


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Wednesday, November 10, 2010 1:01 PM

STORYMARK


Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:
Originally posted by kpo:
Quote:
They disagree, it seems. Doesn't make anyone a liar here.

Well they both have different recollections. Schroeder's has more of a ring of truth to it (why would he commit to supporting an invasion of Iraq before a firm link to 9/11 had been established?)

Quote:
But love the revisionist history, Niki.


Lol, Bush's memoirs are not established history to be 'revised'.


There never WAS a " firm link " to Iraq and 9/11. Not sure what you're even talking about.


Uh... that was his POINT, dimwit.

Germany was willing to go to Iraq IF there was a tie to Al Queada. There wasn't, so they weren't. Do try and keep up.

Quote:
And yes, Bush's memoirs ARE established history.




BWAHAHAHAHAAAAAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAA!

That's rich. Bow before your Holy Dubya, and slurp away.

Did you hear how he said he wanted to endorse Obama? How's that sit with ya? Since, to your sad little mind, he could do no wrong.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Wednesday, November 10, 2010 1:14 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Story - why do you feel the need to interject vulgar, juvenile comments on the issue of actual history ? You don't agree ? Fine. Point out where , or kindly move on.

Iraq was undeniably a exporter of terrorism, so W was dead on accurate on that matter.

And I have posted , on more than one occasion, where I strongly disagreed w/ Bush, on an array of issues.


Oh, and I'd have endorsed Obama too, were he not such a radical, big gov't loving, community organizing commie 'bot.

But he is, and I didn't.

"The modern definition of 'racist' is someone who is winning an argument with a liberal."


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Wednesday, November 10, 2010 1:18 PM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Quote:
Perhaps ? How about, not a chance in hell. Afghanistan was the response to 9/11, remember ? By 2002, we were ALREADY IN AFGHANISTAN !!!


Not an open question? The phone call was only a few months after 9/11 (in Jan 02), but perhaps you're right. Schroeder's point was slightly different actually: whether Iraq was harbouring Al Qaeda members or not.

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Wednesday, November 10, 2010 1:23 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


What he's talking about, Raptor, is the passage: "Speaking Tuesday, Schroeder said the 2002 meeting was actually focused on the mere possibility former Iraqi President Saddam Hussein had anything to do with the September 11 attacks, and said he made no unequivocal commitments." Just to clarify.
Quote:
...there were no lies by Bush here...And yes, Bush's memoirs ARE established history.
AFAF:
Quote:
....research reveals that authoritarian followers drive through life under the influence of impaired thinking a lot more than most people do, exhibiting sloppy reasoning, highly compartmentalized beliefs, double standards, hypocrisy...

It happens when the followers submit too much to the leaders, trust them too much, and give them too much leeway to do whatever they want.

Loyalty to that group ranks among the highest virtues, and members of the group who question its leaders or beliefs can quickly be seen as traitors.

But the leaders don’t have to worry, because their followers are also quite dogmatic. By dogmatism I mean relatively unchangeable, unjustified certainty.

...one reason might be that they know it’s easier for them to get away with it with their devoted readers, listeners, viewers, followers. (Another reason is that the people most likely to become the leaders of right-wing authoritarians simply don’t believe very much in telling the truth.)


I don't know whether it's hypocrisy, double standards, compartmentalized thinking or what, but to say Bush's memoirs are "established history" is just so insane it's not worth addressing!


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
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Wednesday, November 10, 2010 1:30 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



Curious, how you see ONLY what you want to, Niki, and ignore that which doesn't fit your rigid, simplistic preconceived template of anyone who DARES to have an opposing view.

Don't know or care where this bogus 'research' you cite arrives its conclusions, but I assure you that my thinking isn't in the least bit 'impaired'. I deal in the facts only, which clearly isn't anything you have ANY interest in , at all.

"The modern definition of 'racist' is someone who is winning an argument with a liberal."


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Wednesday, November 10, 2010 1:33 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:
my thinking isn't in the least bit 'impaired'. I deal in the facts only...
Quote:
Bush's memoirs ARE established history
Point proven; I need say no more.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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Wednesday, November 10, 2010 1:46 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Yeah, point proven.

You're in irrational twit and beyond all hope of reason.

We agree.

"The modern definition of 'racist' is someone who is winning an argument with a liberal."


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Wednesday, November 10, 2010 1:56 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

Curious, how you see ONLY what you want to, Niki, and ignore that which doesn't fit your rigid, simplistic preconceived template of anyone who DARES to have an opposing view.





BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!


The modern definition of "socialist" is anyone who's winning an argument against a tea-bagger.

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, September 24, 2010
I hate Obama's America. You're damn right about that.


Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.

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Wednesday, November 10, 2010 2:50 PM

STORYMARK


Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

Curious, how you see ONLY what you want to, Niki, and ignore that which doesn't fit your rigid, simplistic preconceived template of anyone who DARES to have an opposing view.




It's amazing how well you describe yourself.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Wednesday, November 10, 2010 2:54 PM

KANEMAN


I can show you what other germans have said.....should I start with Hiltler?

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Wednesday, November 10, 2010 2:59 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

Curious, how you see ONLY what you want to, Niki, and ignore that which doesn't fit your rigid, simplistic preconceived template of anyone who DARES to have an opposing view.




It's amazing how well you describe yourself.


What do you mean? I was talking to and about Niki. You care to show me how your insipid little comment has anything to do w/ what was being discussed, by all means, have at it.

Otherwise,...fuzz off.

"The modern definition of 'racist' is someone who is winning an argument with a liberal."


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Wednesday, November 10, 2010 3:17 PM

CANTTAKESKY


Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
They disagree, it seems. Doesn't make anyone a liar here.

But love the revisionist history, Niki.


Niki wasn't the one who called Bush a liar. Schroeder did.
Quote:
"The former American president is not telling the truth," Schroeder said Tuesday according to the German newspaper Der Spiegel.


----
The use of strawman arguments, when you put words into my mouth that I never said and proceed to tell me why those imaginary words are all manner of horrible, is dishonest in civil discourse. I appreciate refrain from such tactics.

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Wednesday, November 10, 2010 3:49 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

Curious, how you see ONLY what you want to, Niki, and ignore that which doesn't fit your rigid, simplistic preconceived template of anyone who DARES to have an opposing view.




It's amazing how well you describe yourself.


What do you mean? I was talking to and about Niki. You care to show me how your insipid little comment has anything to do w/ what was being discussed, by all means, have at it.

Otherwise,...fuzz off.



You were talking to Niki, and in doing so, you described yourself perfectly.

YOU see ONLY what you want to, Rappy, and ignore that which doesn't fit YOUR rigid, simplistic preconceived template of anyone who DARES to have an opposing view.

You forgot to add your cliché about how you're "stuck on stupid", though. You probably figured your boyfriend KKKaney would chime in with that part, eh? ;)


The modern definition of "socialist" is anyone who's winning an argument against a tea-bagger.

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, September 24, 2010
I hate Obama's America. You're damn right about that.


Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.

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Wednesday, November 10, 2010 3:54 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


You have no answer, so you merely repeat what others say.

Again.

"The modern definition of 'racist' is someone who is winning an argument with a liberal."


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Wednesday, November 10, 2010 3:57 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Says the guy who merely reposts the pictures I post and parrots back what I said... ;)





The modern definition of "socialist" is anyone who's winning an argument against a tea-bagger.

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, September 24, 2010
I hate Obama's America. You're damn right about that.


Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.

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Wednesday, November 10, 2010 3:58 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:
Originally posted by canttakesky:
Niki wasn't the one who called Bush a liar. Schroeder did.
Quote:
"The former American president is not telling the truth," Schroeder said Tuesday according to the German newspaper Der Spiegel.


" I took that as a statement of support," President Bush.

There is no lying here. I call b.s. on the translation being given as to what Schroeder really said, and what Der Spiegel claims.


"The modern definition of 'racist' is someone who is winning an argument with a liberal."


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Wednesday, November 10, 2010 4:00 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



Liberals accuse others of doing and BEING exactly what they themselves are, more than anyone.

"The modern definition of 'racist' is someone who is winning an argument with a liberal."


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Wednesday, November 10, 2010 4:38 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Yeah, Der Spiegel probably doesn't do very well at figuring out what someone said in German...

Do you have ANY cites to back your idiotic position?


The modern definition of "socialist" is anyone who's winning an argument against a tea-bagger.

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, September 24, 2010
I hate Obama's America. You're damn right about that.


Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.

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Wednesday, November 10, 2010 5:15 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
[BBoy, KPO, you got that right. Bush's book IS revisionist history, pure and simple.


So you've already read it?

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Wednesday, November 10, 2010 5:42 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)



"The former American president is not telling the truth," Schroeder said Tuesday according to the German newspaper Der Spiegel.

" I took that as a statement of support," President Bush.


That's freaking awesome.


The modern definition of "socialist" is anyone who's winning an argument against a tea-bagger.

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, September 24, 2010
I hate Obama's America. You're damn right about that.


Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.

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Wednesday, November 10, 2010 6:13 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:
Curious, how you see ONLY what you want to, Niki, and ignore that which doesn't fit your rigid, simplistic preconceived template of anyone who DARES to have an opposing view
Whoa! This from the guy who can't read a table of Federal Revenues and bang it against his "The Bush tax cuts increased federal revenues" mantra? Who kept insisting that the UN approved of the invasion of Iraq by repeatedly pointing to a superseded resolution? Who said that Bush NEVER said that Saddam was actively making, stockpiling, and deploying WMD, despite multiple quotes to the contrary?

C'mon, Rappy. You have a long, well-established history of believing in horse dung. I know THAT is a history you will ALSO re-write. But we know the truth.

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Wednesday, November 10, 2010 8:50 PM

DMAANLILEILTT


Pot calling the kettle black, perhaps?

But we can't know the truth as it was a private conversation between two people who now disagree on what was said, and since English was not the Chancellor's first language he could've thought he was being clear in what he meant. They both might have misunderstood each other, that doesn't mean either of them was lying.

And memoirs are never "established history". They are primary sources on what that particular person believes they experienced and felt at the time, but they are almost always biased towards the subject.

"I really am ruggedly handsome, aren't I?"

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Thursday, November 11, 2010 2:31 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Sig,

My long established history is dealing in the truth, only you don't like the truth, so you mock and ridicule anyone who sides with it.

And you misquoted me on Bush, as he and others clearly thought Saddam was "actively making, stockpiling, and deploying WMD". Not sure why you tried to slip that one in there...but to the point.

You not agreeing with me doesn't make me wrong and you right.

Sorry, it just doesn't.

"The modern definition of 'racist' is someone who is winning an argument with a liberal."


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Thursday, November 11, 2010 3:29 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:
My long established history is dealing in the truth
You see? I told you you would rewrite this bit of history!

Actually, you have a long established history of dealing with Fox Corps OPINION. Truth be told, you ignore the truth, and here are some actual factual examples of some of your biggest bloopers.

---------
I posted a list of Federal Revenues going back to... as I recall, 1940 or some such. You blew right past it. Your response was to rather querulously ask What's this adjustment for inflation? (DUH!) and then slink away.

And then there was the famous thread where you kept insisting the economy was ON FIRE! When I kept trying to point out there was an underlying weakness, you kept changing your metric (the stock market! housing prices!) to whatever was up that day, ignoring fundamental data.

In response to you insisting that the UN approved the invasion of Iraq by repeatedly citing UN Resolution 687, I provided actual quotes of UN resolutions, including the relevant one (1441), their policy of superseding one resolution with another (invalidating your repeated references previous UN resolution 687) and even quotes from UN resolutions which ACTUALLY authorized use of force, so you could get a flavor of the wording. Well, you blew right past that, too.
http://www.casi.org.uk/info/scriraq.html

And even recently, you insisted that Bush didn't lie because Iraq "had" WMD, as if Bush had gone to war over remnants of decades-old stockpiles. So when I quoted Bush and his administration officials talking about the GROWING threat of nuclear, biological and chemical WMD - even as Hans Blix was probing Saddam's backside and finding shit- you slunk away, too afraid to touch reality.

--------
Rappy, you don't even know what reality is. In your mind, reality isn't important. In your mind, fervent opinion can overcome reality. .. you said so. You live in a noisy little bubble, where the sound of your favorite ideologues can drown out the rest of the world, and if any inkling should penetrate, your answer is to shout louder and plug your ears.

What I wonder is... How can anyone be so wrong, so often, and not wonder if they're missing something important? Something vital.. perhaps even fatal? Don't you ever worry that your constant fuckups and misunderstandings are going to lead you to zigging when you should have zagged? That you might get rolled by reality?

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Thursday, November 11, 2010 4:00 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


I never " kept insisting " any thing w/ regards to the economy. I was sick and tired of you Leftidiots trying to down play the 6 years of continued growth and low unemployment, as if that was such a bad thing. I ONCE made the remark that the economy was doing very well, which it was , w/ regards to how other nations economies were doing at the time. My comment still holds true, hyperbole and all.

And per the UN, I provided to you the relevant info which showed how Iraq had not lived up to its obligations, and , if you wanted to go strictly by the resolutions and what they said, use of force by a member nation ( that'd be us ) was well with in our rights. And we did. End of story.

Your reconstruction of the Bush said Iraq "had" WMD or what ever, is frivolous and nonsensical. Hans Blix wasn't the one who was charged to prove Iraq was abiding by the rules. That was for Iraq to do, and it failed. And then paid the price.


Your attempted character assassination and projected mental deficiencies of others who don't agree w/you are irrelevant. I deal in facts, you deal in agenda driven fantasies.





"The modern definition of 'racist' is someone who is winning an argument with a liberal."


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Thursday, November 11, 2010 4:28 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:
I never " kept insisting " any thing w/ regards to the economy. I was sick and tired of you Leftidiots trying to down play the 6 years of continued growth and low unemployment, as if that was such a bad thing.
Oh yes, Rappy, you insisted.
Quote:
May 02, 2006 09:23 Despite what doom/gloomers say, economy roars on.
AURAPTOR Just more fuel for the economy which is on FIRE!

www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=20330

Over and
www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=30470

over again
www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=35296

And while growth and low unemployment are wonderful things, if it's achieved on the back of insupportable debt then it's not so wonderful. That's why I was saying "Let's party like its 1929". The historic parallels were too hard to ignore. Unless of course you're you, in which case you can ignore pretty much anything!

Quote:
And per the UN, I provided to you the relevant info which showed how Iraq had not lived up to its obligations, and , if you wanted to go strictly by the resolutions and what they said, use of force by a member nation ( that'd be us ) was well with in our rights. And we did. End of story.
There's one thing wrong with that scenario... the UN doesn't go strictly by its resolutionS, it goes strictly by the latest one. I know that you like to ignore official procedures in favor of your own interpretation of how YOU think things should be done, but the REALITY is (DOH! There's that inconvenient word again!) there is nothing in UN Resolution 1441 authorizing use of force. End of story!
Quote:
I deal in facts, you deal in agenda driven fantasies.
Oh, like the fantasy Federal revenues that I posted? The fantasy UN Resolutions? The fantasy debt and economic inequality I was worried about?

If I deal in fantasy, how come I'm so often right? Why can I predict things when you can't? But, really, don't you WORRY at all about your gross mis-perceptions? I know that if something catches ME by surprise, I don't go back to television for reassurance, I check out my assumptions and try to figure out where I went wrong!

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Thursday, November 11, 2010 4:45 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Hell, just this week, Rappy's gone breathlessly apoplectic about a "mystery missile" that doesn't exist. His source? FauxNews, of course, with their "ALERT!" graphics and hyper-paranoid "the sky is falling!" reportage.

And when it's been explained to him the most likely thing that he saw, he simply keeps insisting that he's right, we're wrong, etc., ad nauseum.


The modern definition of "socialist" is anyone who's winning an argument against a tea-bagger.

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, September 24, 2010
I hate Obama's America. You're damn right about that.


Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.

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Thursday, November 11, 2010 5:05 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Yanno, I'd feel sorry for him if he wasn't so damn insistent on blindly adhering to sources which have been wrong over and over. It's one thing to be ignorant, it's quite another to be willfully ignorant, even in the face of better information.

You'd think that after getting burned three or four times he might have an inkling not to be so gullible!

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Thursday, November 11, 2010 5:45 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Looks like Rappy slunk out of yet another thread.

Really, Rappy, aren't you getting tired of having to slip out the back door? Come into the light, son. You won't have to be so embarrassed anymore.

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Thursday, November 11, 2010 8:36 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Well, this turned into a lot of and , as is fairly common. The one point I will pick up on is
Quote:
And memoirs are never "established history". They are primary sources on what that particular person believes they experienced and felt at the time, but they are almost always biased towards the subject.
Aside from the fact that in my opinion Bush's book does contain a number of out-and-out lies, that's the basic point about "Bush's book is established fact". To say that of any "memoirs" is insane, given that "memoirs" are "how I remmber things" in the first place and never PRETEND to be established fact, and that the contradictions I have seen thus far (not just this one; okay, this one is arguable) have been pretty blatant, AND given recent past history of members of his administration admitting lies were utilized on any number of issues, I think it's a fair assumption that there's spinning going on.

No, I haven't read his book, nor will I. I've seen excerpts and the facts showing them to be wrong; Bush prevaracated about so many things during his term, and shows clearly a mentality which wants to revise history, as well as having acted and spoke in ways that showed him to want history to portray him positively, that I don't need to spend the money to read more of the same. I'm entitled to my opinions. THIS one was someone else's opinion put up to encourage discussion, but discussion is the last thing this became. Such is life in RWED.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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