Invisible People by canttakesky

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Invisible People

POSTED BY: CANTTAKESKY
UPDATED: Saturday, November 13, 2010 19:20
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Thursday, November 11, 2010 9:05 PM

The Tunnel People of Las Vegas:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1326187/Las-Vegas-tunnel-peopl
e-How-1-000-people-live-shimmering-strip.html

Quote:
But astonishingly, the 200 miles of flood tunnels are also home to 1,000 people who eke out a living in the strip’s dark underbelly.

Why don't we get stories like this from our own media?

I wish our poor and homeless weren't invisible anymore. We give so much to other countries (not that it's necessarily bad), but we don't acknowledge the majority of our own fellow citizens who are down and out. Close to 670,000 homeless, with around 100,000 of them veterans.

(Numbers from:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homelessness#Statistics_for_developed_cou
ntries
http://www.nchv.org/background.cfm )

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Thursday, November 11, 2010 9:18 PM

CUDA77

Like woman, I am a mystery.

And as I recall from my last trip there a decade ago, Las Vegas has a lot of golf courses...

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Thursday, November 11, 2010 11:02 PM

CATPIRATE

Yeh I work not to far from there. They are crack heads go walk amongst them see how safe ya are. A lady I work with her son's one of those people. He tried to smash her skull with a hammer. The Mormon Church will take them in and help them but noooo.

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Friday, November 12, 2010 2:31 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

If wishes were horses....

GIVING them stuff won't cure the problem.

"The modern definition of 'racist' is someone who is winning an argument with a liberal."

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Friday, November 12, 2010 2:50 AM

CANTTAKESKY

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
GIVING them stuff won't cure the problem.

Homelessness is a VERY hard problem to "cure."

Poverty itself is usually not the root problem. That's why throwing stuff at it doesn't always help. There is usually severe mental illness involved (PTSD, addiction, personality disorders, and often more than one at a time). These are folks that are abandoned by society. Or folks who have abandoned society. Or both.

And then there are kids--kids who aren't mentally ill, but don't know how to go back to society.

I'm afraid I don't know the cure. But I believe ignoring them is not the answer.

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Friday, November 12, 2010 5:26 AM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...

Quote:
Originally posted by canttakesky:

I'm afraid I don't know the cure. But I believe ignoring them is not the answer.

I don't think people are ignoring them, more as you said, they just don't know the answer. You can't "fix" people, whatever that means, and you can't/shouldn't make people do what you (not you, the greater You) think they should do. Sometimes you just have to let people be and be their own keepers.

As to why not in our press? I'm a little surprised too - I can only imagine news producers would see the timeliness of the story and the heart strings appeal. Maybe someone from NV has seen some local press on these folks?

I do know that it's a popular story trope to show the "modern savagery and barbarity" of the US in the U.K. "Good heavens, look how they live, so sad..."
You only need to read the comments that follow the story to see the readers they are appealing to.

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

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Friday, November 12, 2010 5:50 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by canttakesky:
The Tunnel People of Las Vegas:

Why don't we get stories like this from our own media?

We do.

NPR
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=97800190

ABC News

Google 'tunnel people las vegas' for more.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Friday, November 12, 2010 6:48 AM

CANTTAKESKY

Thanks Geezer.

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Friday, November 12, 2010 7:00 AM

CANTTAKESKY

Quote:
Originally posted by pizmobeach:
I don't think people are ignoring them, more as you said, they just don't know the answer.

True.

Perhaps I should better say that we should pay more attention to the problem, instead of putting it on the back burner because we don't know how to solve it.

Also when I say "ignore," I am trying to get at the sense that as a society, we appear to want the poorest and the homeless to stay out of sight. The cops make sure they don't disgrace our everyday lives by being seen, ya know what I mean? Contrast this to third world countries where poverty is in plain sight and NOT invisible. I'm having a hard time explaining this, I think.

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Friday, November 12, 2010 7:58 AM

DREAMTROVE

Quote:

I wish our poor and homeless weren't invisible anymore.

Invisibility is an asset, and poverty is not so bad. The worst part about being homeless is actually being harassed by the police. People are nice enough. You just have to not be a panhandler or unkempt. I mean, a razor is really cheap. It should go pretty high on the list for guys as something to buy, also deodorant. Ask people for food, not money, but try to talk to people and get to know them, and then they'll give you food. People will do a lot for you if you never ask them for money.

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Friday, November 12, 2010 8:09 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

"Ask people for food, not money,"

My wife told me a story of when she first time she came to this area...

A homeless guy, asked her for some food money..

being the almost perfect, sweet girl she is... she went into a Panera, bought lunch for herself, and an extra sandwich for the guy.

She went out and gave it to him.

His response?

"BITCH, I SAID I NEEDED MONEY!"

then proceeded to throw the food at her.

If I see someone who says they were a veteran, or someone who is obviously in need... cashy money, no problem.

But I am, (and now she is) careful about whom we choose to help.

I also heard that some homeless people are able to make 200 bucks a day.. (don't know if its true or not)...

But do the math... 200 x 7 (untaxed) is 1400 a week...

Rent, in the area, is about 1250 a month....

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"

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Friday, November 12, 2010 11:45 AM

DREAMTROVE

No one is getting rich off of being homeless. The ones most insistent on cash usually have serious drug problems.

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Friday, November 12, 2010 12:03 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Quote:
I am trying to get at the sense that as a society, we appear to want the poorest and the homeless to stay out of sight. The cops make sure they don't disgrace our everyday lives by being seen

Yup. The cops drive them out of Golden Gate Park regularly, tho' the only time they spend there is to sleep under a bush. But hey; it might offend the tourists!

I'd like to add a word on behalf of the homeless. We have many in San Francisco, and some of them I got to know because they were always on the same street corner. Quite a few I got to know because they had a cat or dog...sometimes they had to turn in the pet so it could be taken care of for a bit when things got really bad (our SPCA has a special program for that), but their animals were almost always in better shape than they were.

Not that we don't have our muttering-to-themselves nutcases or those hollering or walking around with placards, only that they are VASTLY in the minority.

Maybe it's different elsewhere, but here most of the homeless I knew were good people, normal people who had fallen through the cracks. I know of entire FAMILIES, husband, wife and sometimes more than one kid, who struggled on the street or lived out of their car because the shelters were too dangerous.

Maybe nobody noticed, but it's actually not unlike the Depression, remember that? Then they had tent camps (some of which we have today), but the police rousting people nwadays results in many finding places like those tunnels in which to survive, so we just don't see them. We're not in a "recession", that's a word to avoid using the real one: Depression.

In other words, in my opinion, where I live, the majority of homeless are neither mentally impaired, "bums", lazy OR druggies. We had more druggies on the street (neither homeless nor begging) in the '60s. It is a time when regular people discover how close they are to being homeless the hard way, and those of us sitting around comfortably in our homes on our computers aren't, in my opinion, in a position to judge them until we've walked a mile in their shoes...if they have any.

I've given shoes, a coat, umbrellas, dog food and money to homeless people on the street. I've never met anything but unfailingly a smile and "thank you", "have a good day", etc., and I always add "good luck" to anyone I give money to. HOWEVER they use it, I've got fucking a lot more than they do and it doesn't do me one whit of harm to give them a few bucks. When I walked in SF, I always kept small bills in my wallet and gave at least a buck to every one I passed. Dismissing them as druggies or bums means you never got to know them, pure and simple...unless it's a LOT different in the rest of the country than it is here.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Saturday, November 13, 2010 5:37 PM

OUT2THEBLACK

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
...Not that we don't have our muttering-to-themselves nutcases or those hollering or walking around with placards, only that they are VASTLY in the minority.

In some way , surely you believe that you're doing some sort of public service by representing your peer group on this Fireflyfans.net forum. The delusional probably should have some kind of voice assisting them , but maybe the one in your head isn't the one you ought be tuning in so regularly.

Hopefully , your numbers will not continue increasing , and you can persist with merely over-representing your minority in your excursions here.

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Saturday, November 13, 2010 5:52 PM

CANTTAKESKY

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
The worst part about being homeless is actually being harassed by the police.

But that is sort of what I mean. If they didn't have to be invisible, if their invisibility weren't such a relief to society, then cops wouldn't harass the homeless as much.

It's like you can't be homeless at Disneyworld. It ruins the image. Police harass them, in part, to help us preserve this image with have of Cosby America, if you will.

----
I'll try not to be an arrogant ass. But don't expect any miracles soon.

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Saturday, November 13, 2010 5:54 PM

KANEMAN

I don't seem to see any invisible people..

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Saturday, November 13, 2010 6:02 PM

CANTTAKESKY

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
Maybe it's different elsewhere, but here most of the homeless I knew were good people, normal people who had fallen through the cracks.

There is another group of homeless people that don't get counted very often: those good people down on their luck who still have friends. They stay with friends and extended family for a few months, sometimes longer. They're not on the street, but they are homeless. Over the years, we've always tried to open our home to friends who need it. Sometimes they can afford to rent, but while getting back on their feet, it is so much easier if they can save up a little without having to pay rent you know? The borderline homeless.

Another group: veterans. There are so many homeless veterans, it is incredible. About 20 years ago, I worked exclusively with Vietnam vets. You would be surprised how many of them are homeless living in the woods or way out in the boondocks by themselves with almost nothing.

Another group: the dirt poor with "homes." We don't think they exist in America, but they do. I'm not talking about trailer residents. I'm talking about shack-with-dirt-floor residents. They don't have electricity or heat, sometimes not even working toilets. There is an entire 3rd world in our backyard. I had no idea these places existed until I started driving around very very rural Alabama.

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Saturday, November 13, 2010 6:09 PM

OUT2THEBLACK

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Quote:

I wish our poor and homeless weren't invisible anymore.

Invisibility is an asset, and poverty is not so bad. The worst part about being homeless is actually being harassed by the police. People are nice enough. You just have to not be a panhandler or unkempt. I mean, a razor is really cheap. It should go pretty high on the list for guys as something to buy, also deodorant. Ask people for food, not money, but try to talk to people and get to know them, and then they'll give you food. People will do a lot for you if you never ask them for money.

I learned a lot from a Martial Arts text called
Ninja Secrets Of Invisibility. Your points are all valid , and Invisibility is definitely an asset...I frequently use it to assist homeless folk in getting out of sight of the cops , or in witnessing the acts of the cops against the homeless population. I frequently reappear at opportune moments , which seems to deter the more-alert cops from misbehaving too badly (yes , 'alert cops' , they're actually quite rare), but such Jedi tactics are effective against the weak-minded , which is nearly all of the police.

Only the folk with habits are in the habit of asking for change ; some of them don't like it , but it puzzles the majority of them when I tell them , " Ask Obama , he's the one that promised you Change ".

James says that the Folk that don't receive are the ones that don't know how to ask.

It actually takes a lot of guts for people in actual need , to ask , and some of them never do ask verbally , but the desperation is apparent in their eyes , if one knows how to read them.

Making the Invisible People more visible :

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Saturday, November 13, 2010 7:20 PM

DREAMTROVE

CTS

Being invisible is the best part. You want to be invisible. You don't want to be a poster child for a cause, and you don't want to go down in anyone's visual record as the crazy homeless guy...

But there's more to it than that. Invisibility is a goal. It's great to disappear. Secret tunnels with communities of other homeless people would've been awesome, except that other homeless people are crazy and they try to trick you, and will steal from you.

Funny, even when you're the crazy homeless guy with no money you still feel sorry for the crazy homeless people. You feel glad that you're not them, even though you are them. It's weird. I was homeless in Budapest for a while, and in all the train stations there would be these gypsies, and they would take anything they had, like half a sandwich or oj in a box and they would hide it. You could see them do the whole routine, nothing would happen until they thought they were alone, and then they'd take out the food, eat some and then hide it in layers of junk that they knew not even other homeless people would look through, and then stuff it in their bedding or on top of a soda machine or something, so that when someone else found the junk, they'd think, "oh, it's that crazy lady's junk." And I pitied them, because that's like, it's just an extreme poverty below where I was.

Even when I couldn't afford food, I could always get people to give me food, at their place, and I would never be hiding out with my food afraid someone would steal it. I did have to stay in train stations sometimes, but if you keep clean shaven and sleep on the train, everyone just assumes you fell asleep. Except the cops. I got to know that actually, they didn't know, they had no idea, it was just their assumption. If you're in the train station and no train is coming or going, and you're not fidgeting on the bench, then you're probably trouble. But they really didn't know who anyone was. This group of gypsies wanted me to go back with them to their camp, but I think they thought I was rich or something, I don't know, I just was a little scared and didn't do it, and have wondered ever since.

But, CTS, the best part of invisible is the underworld. When you disappear from the world, you're in a place where in the official story, you have nothing, you're no one, not Peter Noone ;) But you really have nothing, you are nothing, according to their book, but you don't want to be raised from nothing in the book of society to "lowest of the low" in that book. But in the whole underworld you actually do have something, it's just not the same thing. You play chess with real grandmasters, and the winner gets a juice box. But it's actually something real, not everyone else's pity.

If I were to have to stay homeless, I would rather be invisible, and have an invisible world. Actually, gnawing it over, it wasn't that bad, except Budapest in the winter is really cold, but I mean, tunnels and communities of people, sure maybe there would be drugs and prostitution, but only if there was business at all. Those people were in some class above me then. Still it just seems kinda like Gaiman's Neverwhere or something, or could be.

Veterans are pretty screwed up. My sister works with them, and has for years. The homeless vets I knew, not all of them, but a lot were the sort of no way out types, never getting out of here, etc.

Quote:

Not that we don't have our muttering-to-themselves nutcases or those hollering or walking around with placards, only that they are VASTLY in the minority.

Niki

But they *are* crazy. That's the thing. It takes fairly little togetherness to get yourself a home of some sort. A lot of veterans moved from mom's to mommy military, and now they're lost. If you just wash the floors or do something simple, there's someone who would take you in, if you weren't such a homeless loon. They'll take you in anyway but you know you gotta move on because you know that you're cramping their style, and leaving is so much better than being kicked out. (Which is the worst, because you're very not ready to go, you don't have your stuff together, you look like hell and now have nowhere to shower, and you didn't get any sleep last night)

But the thing is, fucking loons need love to.

Vastly in the minority? I mean really, we were all fucking nuts. No one was sane. We were so much not a we, we all thought "they are all fucking nuts" but when something started to work out for you, you became a part of some group or other, for a little while, and then you knew that you were the lunatic.

It takes a while to realize that everyone is fucking nuts. But you know what actually raised my spirits the most: Rob Thomas. He was awesome. He had all these songs about being fucking nuts, and all the while, he was the nuts, and I think he was also really nuts. But really, you can't write this if you don't get it

Quote:

Talking to myself in public
Dodging glances on the train
I know
I know they've all been talking 'bout me
I can hear them whisper
And it makes me think there must be something wrong
With me
Out of all the hours thinking
Somehow
I've lost my mind

It made it all somehow okay.

Oh, and this: Never take the money. If you take the money you accept the equivalency that puts you at the bottom of the pecking order, just allowing society to define you in a dollar value, just the way they made Gates and Soros worth more than everyone else, the world of Rockefeller and Rothschild can make you less. In a game of chess, you're only inferior when you lose. In the world of money, you're always inferior.

O2tB

Invisibility is powerful, because it is a deception, whereas flying is simply an evolutionary trait that you might have gotten if you didn't have arms. For a human, it's mostly show offy. I actually never saw a contest between the two.

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