REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Green Jobs falling by the way side.

POSTED BY: AURAPTOR
UPDATED: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 11:54
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Wednesday, August 31, 2011 8:12 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:


Solyndra to file for bankruptcy, lay off 1,100

Solar company Solyndra is closing down and filing for bankruptcy.

That news, reported by NBC and which we’ve just confirmed with the solar company, is chilling because so many hopes have been pinned on Solyndra’s success story for job creation, solar manufacturing and a celebration of American innovation.

The Fremont, Calif., company, which uses a novel process to make solar panels that are consisted of rows of solar cell-lined tubes, is laying off its 1,100 full-time and temporary employees immediately, the company said. The company plans to file for Chapter 11 and figure out what to do with its intellectual property and assets. Options include selling its business and licensing is technology.

“Solyndra LLC, the American manufacturer of innovative cylindrical solar systems for commercial rooftops today announced that global economic and solar industry market conditions have forced the Company to suspend its manufacturing operations,” the company said in a statement.

http://gigaom.com/cleantech/solyndra-to-file-for-bankruptcy-lay-off-11
00
/




And on the east coast...

Quote:



It seems that the surest way to go bankrupt is to have President Barack Obama use your business as some sort of example of the wonders of his administration and we have yet one more example of that in Evergreen Solar, Inc., the heavily taxpayer funded business that has now closed its doors.

In April of 2009 Barack Obama’s White House Communications Dept. sent out a missive to the State of Massachusetts happily touting all the great new “green jobs” that his stimulus spending was creating.

“Evergreen Solar,the Marlborough-based maker of solar panels,” the White House letter said, “also is hoping to hire 90 to 100 people at a manufacturing plant in Devens, said Gary Pollard, vice president of human resources.

Obama’s close friend, the disastrous Deval Patrick, Governor of Massachusetts, pumped millions of stimulus dollars into solar energy company Evergreen assuming that giant fistsfulls of cash — $58 million in state aid — would prove a magic elixir that could stave off the need for good business practices and those silly things called customers.

Turns out, not so much.

The company that Obama and Patrick touted as a great example of stimulus well spent has already, back in March, fired 800 workers and now must fire even more workers. Worse, it has filed for bankruptcy listing $485.6 million in debt.

Once again we see that government cannot make jobs, government does not make products, government cannot create business out of thin air merely by throwing piles of cash at it.

Additionally, we see that the idea of so-called green jobs is a chimerical, fantastic venture. You’d sooner find a flying dragon than a sustainable green job.

http://rightwingnews.com/democrats/another-favored-obama-green-busines
s-goes-bankrupt
/






" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Wednesday, August 31, 2011 8:29 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


"You’d sooner find a flying dragon than a sustainable green job."

Hello,

This is somewhat disingenuous. Solar companies and other 'green' jobs providers do exist and have existed for my entire lifetime.

--Anthony



_______________________________________________

“If you are not free to choose wrongly and irresponsibly, you are not free at all”

Jacob Hornberger

“Freedom is not worth having if it does not connote freedom to err. It passes my comprehension how human beings, be they ever so experienced and able, can delight in depriving other human beings of that precious right.”

Mahatma Gandhi

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Wednesday, August 31, 2011 9:00 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



The overall point being, that the federal $ spent by this administration, under the guise to jump state the economy and push America towards the panacea of a 'green ' energy is horribly misguided and delusional.

The sun is still shining, and we still have energy needs a plenty, yet these govt subsidized companies simply can't seem to find their market.

Wonder why.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Wednesday, August 31, 2011 9:07 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

I suspect the initial investment cost is turning off people during this period of economic difficulty. Not everyone can afford the thousands of dollars it takes to invest in free energy.

The mistake here, I believe, is the choice of where to put stimulus dollars. This mistake has been made since the beginning, even since the former administration.

Instead of bailing out Banks at the top end, I believe more would have been achieved by going to the consumer level and investing money in the actual foreclosures directly.

Similarly, if 100% of the 'green energy' stimulus had been placed at the consumer level, there would have been no need to invest in green companies. Rather, companies would have popped into being or expanded to meet the sudden demand.

At the moment, consumer subsidies are poised to sunset, so the market will no longer support as many green jobs as it once did. A partial collapse of the industry was inevitable in this economic climate.

--Anthony




_______________________________________________

“If you are not free to choose wrongly and irresponsibly, you are not free at all”

Jacob Hornberger

“Freedom is not worth having if it does not connote freedom to err. It passes my comprehension how human beings, be they ever so experienced and able, can delight in depriving other human beings of that precious right.”

Mahatma Gandhi

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Wednesday, August 31, 2011 9:15 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:



Solyndra Spells Disaster for DOE Loan Guarantee Program
By Katie Fehrenbacher Nov. 3, 2010, 10:07am PT


Back in May, I raised the question of whether or not Solyndra’s $535 million loan guarantee from the Department of Energy — the DOE’s first and flagship loan guarantee — was a mistake. Despite the fact that Solyndra had raised around a billion dollars of its own private equity, I pointed out the company has one of the highest manufacturing costs of its thin-film solar peers. The economics just didn’t seem to work.

http://gigaom.com/cleantech/solyndra-spells-disaster-for-doe-loan-guar
antee-program
/



Fact is, companies like Solyndra couldn't have gotten their start w/ out such a massive govt loan in the first place.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Wednesday, August 31, 2011 9:18 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

If the green energy business had been booming, there would have been legitimate interest in loaning to green energy start-ups.

Does that quote above show that the company had a billion dollars worth of its own private equity without government help?

Impressive.

--Anthony



_______________________________________________

“If you are not free to choose wrongly and irresponsibly, you are not free at all”

Jacob Hornberger

“Freedom is not worth having if it does not connote freedom to err. It passes my comprehension how human beings, be they ever so experienced and able, can delight in depriving other human beings of that precious right.”

Mahatma Gandhi

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Wednesday, August 31, 2011 9:26 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Who said the famous "Reports of my demise are greatly exaggerated"? Nice try, Raptor, which I will happily shoot down. Companies come and go in every sector, the green sector is no different. But the story is MUCH bigger (and better) than you portray. By the way: "rightwingnews.com"? Really?

Here are the actual facts:
Quote:

Imagine if, in 1963, two years after JFK's famous speech to Congress, The New York Times had run a story titled "Space program fails to live up to promise." That will give you some idea of how bad a recent NYT story on the clean energy economy was: "Number of Green Jobs Fails to Live Up to Promises."

The story is triply terrible: It's incorrect, premature, and misleading. So of course it has been quoted endlessly by the right-wing media. It's sad when the U.S. press isn't any better than the U.K. press.

First, the core inaccuracy:
Quote:

A study released in July by the nonpartisan Brookings Institution found clean-technology jobs accounted for just 2 percent of employment nationwide and only slightly more -- 2.2 percent -- in Silicon Valley. Rather than adding jobs, the study found, the sector actually lost 492 positions from 2003 to 2010 in the South Bay, where the unemployment rate in June was 10.5 percent.
Talk about a bait and switch. The NYT cites the Brookings study, but then pulls out one tiny piece of it to make the exact opposite argument of the study. As Climate Progress wrote, Brookings actually found that, nationwide:
Quote:

From 2003 to 2010, the clean economy grew by 8.3 percent -- almost double what the overall economy grew during those years ...

"The pace of growth really is torrid in that sector," says Mark Muro, a senior fellow at Brookings Metropolitan Program and a co-author of the report. "This confirms the intuition that these exciting industries really are growing as fast as we think they are."

On top of that, median salaries for cleantech-related jobs are $46,343, or about $7,727 more than the median wages across the broader economy. But you'd never know that from the NYT hit job.

Then we have this wildly premature B.S. from the Times:
Quote:

In the Bay Area, as in much of the country, the green economy is not proving to be the job-creation engine that many politicians envisioned. President Obama once pledged to create five million green jobs over 10 years. Gov. Jerry Brown promised 500,000 clean-technology jobs statewide by the end of the decade. But the results so far suggest such numbers are a pipe dream.
Again, that is just factually wrong, as we've seen. It's also premature. We're two years into Obama's 10-year pledge. Worse, Obama's pledge was based in large part on passage of a climate and clean energy jobs bill. So this isn't just like the NY Times writing a story like "Space program fails to live up to promise" in 1963. Imagine if Congress refused to fund the moonshot, and then the NY Times attacked the failed effort.

Here is all the Times has to say on the subject:
Quote:

Advocates and entrepreneurs also blame Washington for the slow growth. [Van] Jones cited the failure of so-called cap-and-trade legislation, which would have cut carbon pollution and increased the cost of using fossil fuel, making alternative energy more competitive. Congressional Republicans have staunchly opposed cap-and-trade.
The climate and clean energy jobs bill would have led to hundreds of billions of dollars of investment in clean energy -- and that would have created millions of clean energy jobs. It would also be nice if the Times could have correctly reported: "The bill passed the House with bipartisan support. Most congressional Republicans opposed cap-and-trade, many of them reversing their earlier support for the policy." As written, the piece implies that all congressional Republicans always opposed cap-and-trade, implying that the possibility that it ever could have passed was nonexistent, which is not true.

The piece has so many errors and misleading statements in it that I will finish by excerpting an NRDC post by Cal Steger, Energy Policy Analyst at NRDC's new Center for Market Innovation:
Quote:

I recently drove through parts of Michigan and Ohio, stopping in at various companies connected to the new clean energy economy ... I toured factories that are manufacturing wind components, energy-efficient roofing products, and light fixtures, and even a refrigerator recycling facility. In some of the areas hit hardest by both the recession and long-term outsourcing of U.S. manufacturing, the new clean economy is bringing jobs back. More importantly, these aren't jobs that involve sitting at a desk all day pushing paperwork around (like, say, my job), but good-paying factory jobs for working-class Americans, where things get built or made, and then sold. Astraeus is in Eaton Rapids, Mich., a town of about 5,000, and has developed innovative ways of manufacturing wind components quicker and cheaper. They've been able to hire back nearly all of the 100 workers that lost their jobs during the recession (and expect to create hundreds more jobs as their high-tech wind components are used by wind companies). In a community that size, that has real impact. Full Spectrum Solutions is based in Jackson, Mich., another small town, and makes efficient lighting products. They've doubled in size during a tough recession.

There are literally dozens of stories just like this in the Midwest ...

Which is what makes this article so frustrating. First, I've read the Brookings report [PDF] multiple times (and its great technical appendix [PDF]) -- and it's not the depressing story the author makes it out to be ... First -- it was measuring the entire "clean economy," not just clean technology (so analyzing 40 industry segments, including everything from public transit and types of farming, to pollution reduction and recycling). But if you just want to look at the "clean technology" segment of this clean economy, then you'll see "explosive growth" per the report -- wind and solar jobs grew anywhere from 10 percent to 18 percent annually over the past eight years (see page 22 [PDF]). Overall, the clean economy accounts for 2.7 million jobs, making it a larger employer of Americans than the fossil-fuel energy sectors.

Second -- the point of this study was to analyze job growth across the U.S. So, for example, while the South Bay (San Jose, Sunnvale, Santa Clara) lost 492 jobs from 2003-2010 (as referenced in the article), the region of San Francisco/Oakland/Fremont area increased total clean economy jobs from 2003-2010 by more than 44 percent in that time, adding 15,700 new jobs (from the data downloads in their interactive map at http://www.brookings.edu/metro/Clean_Economy/Map.aspx#/?ind=1&geo=
2&vis=2&dt=2&z=0&x=0&y=0
). Nationally, similarly impressive stories are everywhere. During that same period, Knoxville, Tenn. added nearly 10,000 green jobs, as did Raleigh-Cary, N.C. -- tripling the size of jobs in their clean economies, while Little Rock, Ark. more than doubled the number of jobs in its clean economy ...

So yes, looking at one community with 10.5 percent unemployment, you can write a story that the clean economy has not produced significant growth in the past seven years. And looking at small subsegments within the broader clean economy that are heavily exposed to construction and home building also probably won't paint a great picture. But looking across the nation, in areas and industries hit hardest by a tough economy, the story is much, much more optimistic.
Quote:

The clean economy is real. It's going to be the biggest job-creating sector in the coming decades because of peak oil and climate change. Of course, it's possible that most of the jobs will be created overseas if the GOP and the fossil-fuel-funded denier-industrial complex continues to succeed in its effort to strangle it -- and if the media keeps misreporting the story. http://www.grist.org/green-jobs/2011-08-23-nyt-green-jobs-story-ignore
s-explosive-growth-in-that-sector
of story. If you doubt it, check out that interactive map I cited.

I know how gleefully you pounced on this, and I hate to disappoint you (well, no I don't...)


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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Wednesday, August 31, 2011 9:29 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Nice try, Niki, but these are specific companies which Obama touted as being prime examples of HIS administration's goals for job recovery and 'green' energy.

Both he and these companies are failing, miserably.


Wake up and smell the coffee.


And the claims of 'fastest growing'? Are usually touted by those who are really really small to begin with. Like if AirAmerica went from 1 radio station to 2 radio stations, they could boast of being the fastest growing in all of talk radio! Even outpacing Rush Limbaugh !

But the truth of the matter is, they added 1 station, and Rush has like over 600.

Don't fall for they hype and the spin, darlin'. Just don't.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Wednesday, August 31, 2011 9:31 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

It is glad news that other, similar companies are continuing to exist profitably.

Still, I think it should have been an all-subsidy investment at the bottom, not a corporate investment at the top.

--Anthony



_______________________________________________

“If you are not free to choose wrongly and irresponsibly, you are not free at all”

Jacob Hornberger

“Freedom is not worth having if it does not connote freedom to err. It passes my comprehension how human beings, be they ever so experienced and able, can delight in depriving other human beings of that precious right.”

Mahatma Gandhi

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Wednesday, August 31, 2011 9:37 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


I agree, Anthony. Most things undertaken by our government aren't done as well as they should be.

Raptor, kiss my...no wait, You'r really reaching, it shows, and it means nothing.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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Wednesday, August 31, 2011 11:20 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:

Raptor, kiss my...no wait, You'r really reaching, it shows, and it means nothing.




Posting childish emoticons and attacking the messenger won't change the facts, dearie.

Those Obama touted companies are going under, after having praise and our tax payer money heaped on them by this administration.

Whine all you want. I don't care.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Wednesday, August 31, 2011 11:54 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Given I've already given TONS of proof that "green jobs" are NOT "falling by the wayside" but are rather on the rise, and you continue to insist that two companies going under is all that matters, all you're WORTH, as usual, is


Of COURSE I use childish emoticons for you, they're INTENDED to be silly, that's all you're worth. IF you were to present facts, make logical arguments, not lie through your teeth, etc. etc. (not even counting "be civil") I'd address you respectfully. As it is, you're only worth mocking. I know your game: Make stupid irresponsible points, goad people into responding, then take it personal and call them names, while insisting on the same stupid irresponible points you made in the beginning.

Silly man.



Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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