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REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS
Here we go again...
Wednesday, September 21, 2011 8:33 AM
NIKI2
Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...
Quote:Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid said Tuesday he's not sure a potential government shutdown at the end of the month can be avoided because of a stand-off between the House and Senate over how much to spend on disaster relief. "I heard reports that Sen. (Senate Republican Leader Mitch) McConnell said there will be no shutdown," Reid told reporters in the Capitol. "I'm not that sure. I'm not that sure because the Tea Party-driven House of Representatives has been so unreasonable in the past. I don't know why they should suddenly be reasonable." At issue is a short-term bill to fund government agencies through November 18 that the GOP-controlled House will vote on Wednesday. It allocates fewer resources to the Federal Emergency Management Agency and the Army Corps of Engineers for disaster response than the Democratic-led Senate approved last week. Additional funds are needed because recent major floods from Hurricane Irene along the East Coast and wildfires in Texas exceeded the amount these agencies have left in their coffers to support recovery and rebuilding efforts. Both the House and Senate are scheduled to take a weeklong recess next week and the current government funding expires September 30. The GOP measure includes a total of $3.6 billion -- $1 billion in emergency funds available when the bill is enacted and another $2.6 billion to be budgeted for those federal response agencies for the 2012 fiscal year. The Senate bill that passed with bipartisan support last week includes $6.9 billion for FEMA and other federal agencies for immediate disaster relief and for relief in 2012. Earlier this month, President Barack Obama asked Congress for a total of $5.1 billion in additional disaster aid — $500 million of which was for immediate relief. In addition to the disagreement over how much money these agencies should get, House Republican leaders are insisting that the $1 billion in their bill that those agencies would get right away to cover recovery costs be offset with $1.5 billion in cuts to a loan program that helps automakers retool their operations to make more fuel-efficient cars. http://www.cnn.com/2011/09/20/politics/fema-funding/index.html?hpt=hp_bn3] But apparently this time it's "cut HALF AGAIN as much as you want for disasters". Compassionate, ain't they? It is, of course, the Democrats' fault that there have been so many disasters. You betcha. And, of course, they're not using disasters as a political ploy to cut programs. Nahhhh...
Wednesday, September 21, 2011 8:41 AM
AURAPTOR
America loves a winner!
Wednesday, September 21, 2011 9:00 AM
ANTHONYT
Freedom is Important because People are Important
Wednesday, September 21, 2011 9:26 AM
Wednesday, September 21, 2011 9:57 AM
Wednesday, September 21, 2011 3:48 PM
KWICKO
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)
Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: EPA and Dept of Education should have never been formed in the first place, so cut those, for starters. Oh, and do away with Dept of Agriculture, Homeland Security, and possibly a few dozen other federal programs.... that'll be a great start.
Wednesday, September 21, 2011 3:56 PM
Thursday, September 22, 2011 3:02 AM
GEEZER
Keep the Shiny side up
Quote:The House demise of the measure was caused by Democrats opposed to $1.5 billion in cuts to a government loan program to help car companies build fuel-efficient vehicles. On the other side, almost 50 GOP conservatives felt the underlying bill permits spending at too high a rate.
Thursday, September 22, 2011 12:41 PM
Quote:For the past two-and-a-half years, Republicans have used a relatively new process to take advantage of the American people’s suffering in order to benefit the GOP’s wealthy donors, and although it is legal, it is as despicable as any criminal activity imaginable. The Republicans are punishing Americans with every round of budget and spending cuts, and in this particular case, whatever the final result, Americans will pay the price so the oil industry can sell more gasoline. If Democrats are forced to cut funding for the advanced technology initiative, disaster victims get relief but 10,000 Americans will lose their jobs as well as more fuel efficient automobiles. If Democrats resist cutting funds for the initiative, disaster victims end up suffering. Either way, Republicans demonstrate their abject contempt for all Americans except the wealthy, corporations, and the oil industry. They oppose increasing taxes on the wealthiest Americans, refuse to eliminate oil industry subsidies, and block funding to improve America’s crumbling infrastructure and in the process, they are enriching their wealthy supporters at Americans’ expense. Holding disaster relief hostage to prevent fuel efficiency and kill 10,000 more jobs should be criminal, and Americans should be incensed at the callous disregard their Republican representatives continue displaying but they are not. Republicans have accomplished nothing in the past two-and-a-half years that benefits 98% of Americans. They revel in Americans’ suffering so they can use them to hurt another segment of the population and they have been successful because Democrats are unwilling to stand idly by and do nothing. It is impossible to predict how long the American people will tolerate Republican damage before they rise up and say enough; one would think losing jobs, social programs, and disaster relief would be enough, but it seems many Americans are masochists who enjoy being decimated so the wealthy can prosper and the oil industry can continue making record profits. America is becoming intolerable and very few groups have been spared from Republican malfeasance. Elected representatives are supposed to look out for and protect the people, but Republicans have shown they could not care less about people unless they are millionaires and billionaires. The Republicans’ hostage-taking is criminal and yet they continue with impunity. http://www.politicususa.com/en/disaster-relief-hostage this point, we have become a nation of hostages with no hope of ransom. I loved the comments sent in to the above article:Quote:They are, in fact, an electoral minority who are governing by extortion, and it appears to me that they have made abusing “the little people” an end in itself. Perhaps it was the election of a black president that released their malice so virulently, or perhaps it was knowing the racism ingrained in the American public would make it easy to blame it on the black man in the White House that emboldened them. I can say only: Deal with them as one must with an abuser. Document, document, document every threat, every lie, every demand, and be prepared to confront them in the court of public opinion when they smirk and say, “Oh, nothing…”. Every abuser practices DARVO: Deny, Accuse, Reverse Victim and Oppressor. It’s what they do when they accuse minorities of “playing the race card”, the unemployed and downwardly mobile of “waging class warfare”, women who want to live as free and equal human beings of “sexism”, non-Christians of religious persecution, and sexual minorities who want to marry of being “anti-family”. It’s what they do whenever they accuse whoever seeks to assert their own humanity of demanding “special rights”, and it is necessary to get past their presstitute enablers to make certain their intended victims understand exactly the peril they are in.Quote:A majority of the righties, tea baggers only watch FOX News and they hear the likes of Bill O’Reilly whining about with his taxes increased he may determine although he likes his job that its no longer worth it! BO also infers "if Obama increases taxes to 50%" (like it was under Reagan as I recall), and the FOX News audience is dumb enough to think a President can raise taxes! BO doesn’t tell them only Congress can raise your taxes and establish the rates. The GOP has the best lying machine around and if you listen to Mittens Romney it sounds like he’s FDR reincarnated and will do a better job at protecting Social Security than President Obama does. Also with the GOP being the Grand Obstructionist Party it causes people to tune out and low turnout at the polls tends to benefit conservatives. Wake up people and smell the coffee/tea!Quote:Oh, and I work with a tea bagger that complained members of Congress don’t pay into Social Security and I told her they changed that back in the 80's! The William F. Buckley’s were dragged, driven out of the GOP eons ago and we have pseudo, fake populists in the tea baggers.Quote:I know how Virginia can get money from the Republicans—it can change its name to Afghanistan, then Republicans will give it billions–no questions asked! Ohio could change its name to Iraq, then the House Republicans would pony up for some infrastrucutre spending. http://www.thechicagodope.com/2011/09/15/ohio-changes-name-to-iraq-to-get-federal-help/, yup, yup and a big YUP! Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani, Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”, signing off
Quote:They are, in fact, an electoral minority who are governing by extortion, and it appears to me that they have made abusing “the little people” an end in itself. Perhaps it was the election of a black president that released their malice so virulently, or perhaps it was knowing the racism ingrained in the American public would make it easy to blame it on the black man in the White House that emboldened them. I can say only: Deal with them as one must with an abuser. Document, document, document every threat, every lie, every demand, and be prepared to confront them in the court of public opinion when they smirk and say, “Oh, nothing…”. Every abuser practices DARVO: Deny, Accuse, Reverse Victim and Oppressor. It’s what they do when they accuse minorities of “playing the race card”, the unemployed and downwardly mobile of “waging class warfare”, women who want to live as free and equal human beings of “sexism”, non-Christians of religious persecution, and sexual minorities who want to marry of being “anti-family”. It’s what they do whenever they accuse whoever seeks to assert their own humanity of demanding “special rights”, and it is necessary to get past their presstitute enablers to make certain their intended victims understand exactly the peril they are in.
Quote:A majority of the righties, tea baggers only watch FOX News and they hear the likes of Bill O’Reilly whining about with his taxes increased he may determine although he likes his job that its no longer worth it! BO also infers "if Obama increases taxes to 50%" (like it was under Reagan as I recall), and the FOX News audience is dumb enough to think a President can raise taxes! BO doesn’t tell them only Congress can raise your taxes and establish the rates. The GOP has the best lying machine around and if you listen to Mittens Romney it sounds like he’s FDR reincarnated and will do a better job at protecting Social Security than President Obama does. Also with the GOP being the Grand Obstructionist Party it causes people to tune out and low turnout at the polls tends to benefit conservatives. Wake up people and smell the coffee/tea!
Quote:Oh, and I work with a tea bagger that complained members of Congress don’t pay into Social Security and I told her they changed that back in the 80's! The William F. Buckley’s were dragged, driven out of the GOP eons ago and we have pseudo, fake populists in the tea baggers.
Quote:I know how Virginia can get money from the Republicans—it can change its name to Afghanistan, then Republicans will give it billions–no questions asked! Ohio could change its name to Iraq, then the House Republicans would pony up for some infrastrucutre spending. http://www.thechicagodope.com/2011/09/15/ohio-changes-name-to-iraq-to-get-federal-help/, yup, yup and a big YUP!
Thursday, September 22, 2011 6:17 PM
Quote:Originally posted by Niki2: Lord, Geezer, how was I ever crazy enough to think you were more reasonable than Wulf or Raptor? I must have been out of my mind.
Thursday, September 22, 2011 6:19 PM
1KIKI
Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.
Friday, September 23, 2011 1:15 AM
Quote:Originally posted by 1kiki: Rappy took the short-cut and drank the kool-aid.
Friday, September 23, 2011 1:28 AM
M52NICKERSON
DALEK!
Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: Quote:Originally posted by 1kiki: Rappy took the short-cut and drank the kool-aid. You don't even know what you're saying any more. Did you ever ?
Friday, September 23, 2011 1:33 AM
Friday, September 23, 2011 2:11 AM
Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: Yeah, you toss out insults, but don't really know why. What 'kool-aid' am I drinking ? One of freedom ? Individual responsibility ? Having a different view than yours ? Think, before you respond.
Friday, September 23, 2011 4:30 AM
Friday, September 23, 2011 6:30 AM
SHINYGOODGUY
Friday, September 23, 2011 7:20 AM
Friday, September 23, 2011 11:30 AM
Saturday, September 24, 2011 2:58 AM
Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: Nickerson, you see, it's only witty if A - it's even in the least bit relevant or true and B - someone ELSE says it's witty first.
Quote: You failed on both counts. Sorry. I would take the time to deconstruct the whole fallacy of your " joke ", and explain why it simply isn't applicable, but I doubt very much that you'd be able to follow. You're just not worth the time.
Saturday, September 24, 2011 4:34 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Niki2: Lord, Geezer, how was I ever crazy enough to think you were more reasonable than Wulf or Raptor? I must have been out of my mind. You really think rejecting it because it insists on HALF AGAIN in cuts is unreasonable while the right rejected it because they wanted EVEN MORE?
Saturday, September 24, 2011 4:57 AM
Saturday, September 24, 2011 6:00 AM
Quote:Hours earlier, GOP leaders pushed the bill through the Republican-controlled House in a 219-203 vote after adding a series of cuts vehemently opposed by their Democratic counterparts. ..... One key sticking point is that the House bill requires that the $1 billion in immediate disaster funding be offset with $1.5 billion in cuts to a loan program that helps automakers retool their operations to make more fuel-efficient cars. Another $100 million would be cut from an alternative energy loan program that provided funding for [solar energy].[So to get his people to come through, it's now $1.5 billion PLUS another $100 million in cuts to offset $1 billion in DISASTER RELIEF!] Last week, the Senate passed a spending bill with bipartisan support that would provide $6.9 billion for FEMA and other federal agencies, to be used both for immediate disaster relief as well as in the new fiscal year. The Senate version required no spending offsets. One senior Senate Democratic leadership aide said Thursday night "We are looking for a real attempt to compromise, not just an attempt to appease their own people," the aide said. Forty-eight conservative Republicans initially voted against the GOP measure Wednesday -- an embarrassing setback for Boehner. But they changed their minds when additional alternative energy spending cuts were added to the legislation, according to a GOP aide. In the end, 23 Republicans who initially opposed the bill flipped to support it, giving it enough votes to pass. Boehner's struggle to control an unwieldy House GOP caucus has become an ongoing issue on Capitol Hill this year. During the debt ceiling debate over the summer, Boehner had to withdraw his own plan for deficit reduction at one point when it became clear he lacked sufficient support within his caucus to get it passed. This time, the speaker threatened members with pulling them from committee assignments if they failed to support the continuing resolution Wednesday, according to a Republican source who attended the GOP conference meeting. The source, speaking on condition of not being identified, said Boehner "cracked the whip" at the Wednesday morning meeting and told Republicans bluntly they needed to back the measure or he'd go to the steering committee and start pulling committee assignments for members who didn't vote for it. The Republican steering committee approves member committee assignments. Rep. Bill Huizenga of Michigan, a conservative freshman Republican who opposed the resolution, said removing the offset provision -- as Democrats want -- would be "more problematic for me and probably for more of the caucus." http://www.cnn.com/2011/09/23/politics/congress-fema-funding/index.html?hpt=hp_t2 FACTS about the amount of money the Republicans (actually, the Tea Party neophites) wanted to cut, and how Boehner had to INCREASE that amount even to get them to tow the line (plus threatening them) are the FACTS. The rest can be argued, but how much they wanted cut--an unprecedented thing when it comes to disaster aid--are real. Whether the Dems are playing games or not I can't say. Certainly they can be, they're politicians. But it's pathetic to argue that what they're doing is not just HOLDING THE LINE for once against the massive cuts the GOP has demanded in order to do ANYTHING. By doing so, you're saying that the Republicans refusing to pass anything that DOESN'T have cuts attached to it is just them playing politics. Sauce for goose...and who's rejected more things in the past two years than ever before in history? Hasn't been the Dems, who've compromised and compromised and compromised. By now I truly feel sorry for Boehner. He's a politician, but he UNDERSTANDS compromise, and that compromise is how anything ever gets done. They've made his life hell and made him look weak, and that's a shame. By all I can see, he's being the most reasonable person on that side, and while the Tea Party newbies continue to balk at anything, nothing gets done. Given McConnel's promise to shut down the government yet again, blaming the Democrats would be funny, if it weren't so stupid.
Saturday, September 24, 2011 7:02 AM
Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: Actually, I DON'T spend hours on there,every day. If I DID, then maybe I would have time to tackle the brainless minutia that so often gets posted on here as 'coherent replies '. Lotta folks answering for others on here, for no real reason, other than to see themselves post. 1kiki made a inane comment about kool-aid, and nickerson felt it worth while to try to explain it. Simple cross up there, no big deal. I GET THE JONESTOWN REFERENCE! Good grief, it's hardly obscure! But UNDERSTANDING it and acknowledging it as being valid isn't the same thing. Just as Liberals love to call conservatives 'NAZIS', when it doesn't apply. Oh, sure, I know what a NAZI is, and because of that, I know that calling conservatives NAZIs is ridiculous. If the entire premise of the joke is false, that doesn't mean I have no understanding of what 'drinking the kool-aid ' means, or what the NAZI party stood for.. it was just a lame attempt at humor.
Saturday, September 24, 2011 7:13 AM
Quote: Yup, he definitely took that short cut!
Saturday, September 24, 2011 7:47 AM
Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: Quote: Yup, he definitely took that short cut! Again, you show that you have no clue of what you're talking about.
Saturday, September 24, 2011 8:13 AM
Sunday, September 25, 2011 2:57 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Niki2: Geezer, I don't follow any particular website, as I've said before, and I avoid obviously slanted stuff like Huffpost and Turks most of the time.
Quote:Whether the Dems are playing games or not I can't say.
Quote:Senate delays disaster aid bill until Monday (2011-09-23) (Reuters) - By Andy Sullivan WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The Senate decided to delay action until Monday on a bill that would refill depleted disaster funds and ensure the government does not shut down in October as Republicans and Democrats remained at odds over the measure. "Everyone once in a while needs a little cooling off," Senate Democratic Leader Harry Reid said. "We'll come here Monday and more reasonable heads will prevail." The decision came after the Democratic-controlled Senate, by a vote of 59 to 36, rejected a version that had passed the Republican-controlled House of Representatives. The standoff could easily last past Monday as Congress girds for yet another budget battle that could play out until the last possible minute. The bitter partisan divide over spending that has dominated Washington this year once again threatened Congress' ability to pass even the most basic legislation as lawmakers squabbled over two provisions that account for a fraction of the trillion-dollar-plus bill. Aid for disaster victims could dry up by Tuesday if Congress does not replenish a dwindling relief fund. Congress also must extend funding for the entire government to avoid a shutdown on September 30, the end of the fiscal year. Lawmakers from both sides said the bill, which would keep the government running beyond the end of September and provide badly needed aid to victims of recent floods, tornadoes and other disasters, should not be controversial. Democrats want to remove a cut to an electric-car program that Republicans included to partially offset the added disaster costs. Republicans say they want to make sure the additional disaster money doesn't add to the nation's fiscal woes, while Democrats point out that Congress usually exempts that type of money from normal budget rules. The dispute throws into question lawmakers' ability to find common ground on the more painful choices they will have to confront in the coming months as a special bipartisan committee searches for trillions of dollars in budget savings. "Any delay that occurs because of inaction in the Senate will only imperil needed disaster relief for these thousands of families all across our country," House Speaker John Boehner said at a news conference. Boehner and other Republican leaders have promised to lower the temperature on Capitol Hill after fierce budget battles with Democrats pushed the government to the brink of a shutdown in April and the edge of default in August. The months of turmoil in Washington have spooked consumers, rattled investors and led to a cut in the country's top-notch AAA credit rating. (Additional reporting by Donna Smith, Susan Cornwell and Thomas Ferraro; editing by Mary Milliken and Doina Chiacu) © Copyright 2011, Reuters
Sunday, September 25, 2011 4:20 AM
Sunday, September 25, 2011 4:52 AM
Quote:Nor, apparently, will you spend 1% of the effort you do to find articles blaming the Republicans to see if the Dems are doing the same thing.
Sunday, September 25, 2011 9:38 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Niki2: I hope that wasn't intentional--I went to that first link you snarked about, and got a nuge swirling screen telling me I'd been "hacked by " I think it was Tiger-something, I shut it too fast to tell. If that was intentional, that's a new low for you.
Quote:The other one was a SATIRICAL ARTICAL...apparently you can't tell the difference!
Quote:I have nothing against Reuters and also post material from THEM. But where are the numbers? There's not a single figure in there; I look for facts and FIGURES to be specific.
Quote:I dunno, but I'm getting sick of this shit.
Sunday, September 25, 2011 9:40 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Kwicko: Quote:Nor, apparently, will you spend 1% of the effort you do to find articles blaming the Republicans to see if the Dems are doing the same thing. "Dear Kettle, You're black! Signed, The Pot"
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