Declining excellence in American journalism by canttakesky

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Declining excellence in American journalism

POSTED BY: CANTTAKESKY
UPDATED: Wednesday, December 28, 2011 23:58
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VIEWED: 2078
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Monday, December 26, 2011 10:15 AM

I recently watched this debate. Twice. (Posted it in the Big Damn Hero thread.)

http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/insidestoryamericas/2011/12/201112
23133535524719.html

I am so impressed with the hard questions and penetrating intelligence of everyone involved. I haven't seen anything like this since the MacNeil/Lehrer Newshour, back when MacNeil and Lehrer were there.

Or I read an article like this:

Obama's Abysmal Record on Civil Liberties

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2011/dec/23/obama-a
bysmal-record-civil-liberty

Why do we have to get critical inspections of our own govt from overseas now? Why is it that so few American journalists have the courage to tell it like it is? Speak of our own war crimes? Speak of how far both major parties have betrayed the American people?

When I lived in dictatorships, we used to get our "real" news from Voice of America on shortwave radio. Now it seems, I have to get my "real" news from foreign internet sources.

America has no more honest voice.

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Monday, December 26, 2011 10:25 AM

OLDENGLANDDRY

American journalism is a contradiction in terms. Far easier to keep your head down and take the pay cheque.

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Tuesday, December 27, 2011 9:39 AM

CANTTAKESKY

Quote:

American journalism is a contradiction in terms. Far easier to keep your head down and take the pay cheque.

It didn't use to be that way. Americans used to be very daring journalists.

Maybe the risks nowadays are overwhelming.

There are still a few brave American journalists out there.

Glenn Greenwald comes to mind.

And then there are noteworth publications like Salon and Mother Jones and even Rolling Stone.

-----
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

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Tuesday, December 27, 2011 10:09 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by canttakesky:

Why do we have to get critical inspections of our own govt from overseas now? Why is it that so few American journalists have the courage to tell it like it is? Speak of our own war crimes? Speak of how far both major parties have betrayed the American people?

The simple answer is that Obama is to be treated with kid gloves, and the narrative 1st spelled out after his glorious immaculation must be adhered to , no matter what.

Besides, if you tick off the wrong folks in D.C., you won't be invited to the coolest, hippest parties around.

"The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein

You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong. You cannot help the wage earner by pulling down the wage payer. You cannot help the poor by destroying the rich. You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves. - Someone.

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Tuesday, December 27, 2011 11:39 AM

HERO

Quote:
Originally posted by oldenglanddry:
American journalism is a contradiction in terms. Far easier to keep your head down and take the pay cheque.

American Journalism has two great traditions.

One is for telling being trustworthy conveyors of both facts and reasoned opinion...Ben Franklin, Watergate, "and that's the way it is" and so on.

The other is for being partisan hacks and political powermongers...Ben Franklin, Yellow Journalism, Mr. Smith Goes to Washington, MSNBC and so on.

Oddly enough political affiliation does not seem to influence who falls into what catagory when viewed as a historical trend. Certainly at any given moment one's politics plays a role, but when viewed in the context of all of American history it seems that every side (historically there are more then just two sides) has its share of both types of journalist.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.
"I agree with Hero." Niki2, 2011.

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Tuesday, December 27, 2011 12:37 PM

RIGHTEOUS9

Wow...

that answer is very simple, simplistic, and wrong.

It certainly hasn't been my annecdotal experience that this President has been treated with kid gloves or that his acheivments have netted him the credit he deserves for them.

But hell, that's just annecdotal tit for tat

Here's a link to a Pew research study that isn't exactly corroborative of your version of reality, either.

http://pewresearch.org/pubs/2116/media-primary-news-coverage-blogs-rep
ublican-presidential-race-barack-obama-rick--perry-herman-cain

As to the specific points that canttakethesky is referring to about Obamas presidency, 2 things are worth noting:

1: Because I follow liberal publications and news sources none of the information in that guardian link comes out of left field to me.

2: It isn't that the main stream media isn't hard on Obama, its that its hard on him for the wrong reasons. It had no interest in covering these issues with Bush, and it has no interest in covering these issues with Obama, and one of the differences is that the opposition party is not pushing for media coverage of these things, it is helping to implement them..it wants them.

.......

To the larger point, the media in this country is pathetic because those companies that bring us our news are not independant of the companies that are doing the things/lobbying and advancing the politicans to do the things, that are news worthy. Not only are they owned by said companies, but they get advertising money from other companies, and they don't want to do anything to upset that revenue stream.

This is a glaring conflict of interest and the sovereingty of our fourth estate should be looked at.

We can be thankful for the internet while there's still a certain net neutrality, but thats something that continues to be tennuous, and of course the internet providers taking up that fight are the same institutions controlling content on cable.

Also, sensational tripe sells. I love finding out during a cnn news break on my radio station that a Kardasian is splitting with her new husband. That right there is why CNN is the most trusted name in news.

Rap, you have a good point about access though...its a problem no matter who is in charge...stations do not want to have their access severed. MSNBC kicked Cenk to the curb because they thought he was being too hard on the administration, "too much of an outsider on an insider channel" so Obama definitely does benefit from this...its just that he benefits from it only when he isn't pissing off the controllers of the message....the big money

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Tuesday, December 27, 2011 2:12 PM

CANTTAKESKY

Quote:
Originally posted by Righteous9:
It isn't that the main stream media isn't hard on Obama, its that its hard on him for the wrong reasons.

Granted. But that is still shoddy, cowardly journalism.

-----
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

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Tuesday, December 27, 2011 2:46 PM

BYTEMITE

Quote:
It had no interest in covering these issues with Bush, and it has no interest in covering these issues with Obama, and one of the differences is that the opposition party is not pushing for media coverage of these things, it is helping to implement them..it wants them.

Well spoken.

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Tuesday, December 27, 2011 3:33 PM

DREAMTROVE

Well said, everyone. And I mean that. Why aren't you guys just the government? That would make life so much easier.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Wednesday, December 28, 2011 9:29 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Quote:
Originally posted by canttakesky:
It didn't use to be that way. Americans used to be very daring journalists.

That's not completely true...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Mockingbird

See, it isn't that this is a NEW thing, so much as the internet has allowed people to individually connect and crosscheck, and thus begun to reveal the extent and magnitude of the lies - not just the current ones, but all of them past and present.

And in response those who control the media have responded with a formidable deluge of distraction, sensationalism and bullshit, just look at say...
The AOL or Yahoo "news" pages and see if you can find any NEWS, ehe ?

I suspect the distraction-diversion tactic is something I call the "Garbage Flood", burying any actual information under a flood of crap so massive that no one would be willing to invest the effort to dredge the pile, and even if they did by the time they got anything it'd be too late to act on it - a subset form of well-poisoning, and one I use to my advantage as well by utilizing throwaway emails with services notorious for spam and garbage, specifically ones with dynamic IP addressing.

Information warfare of a different sort, you might say, but it's all too easy to track it back so long as you know the keystone - FOLLOW THE MONEY, who's paying to flood the "news" with shit ?
Why, the very selfsame fuckers who are in for the high jump if the people as a whole realize just how far down the slippery slope we've actually fallen.

Ironically that halfsie-AI of ours started out as a sifter-type Daemon which would cull and sort headlines from newswire backsites, flagging them to my attention via keyword recognition.

Underneath the advancing technology from predictive marketing and targeted distraction, it's still the same old song and dance, but the actual DIFFERENCE is twofold, firstly that the powers that be no longer have a complete lock on information sourcing - no doubt Sinclair and Hearst are rolling in their graves over that one, much to my amusement...

And the second comes out of the first, once folk begin to realize how much, how often, and how greatly they've been lied to, they stop believing that shit, and start lookin elsewhere - and that's where it goes all wrong for the powers that run this world.

Once people begin to question the legitimacy of the information offered to them by news outlets and governments, soon enough they begin to question the legitimacy of those institutions themselves - and that's a GOOD thing.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Wednesday, December 28, 2011 11:45 AM

HERO

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Well said, everyone. And I mean that. Why aren't you guys just the government? That would make life so much easier.

I am the government. At least for my part of it life is easier. People are either guilty or innocent. Don't care about race, gender, politics, or sexual orientation.

My only real bias comes twice/year. Little suggestion, don't wear your Steelers jersey to my court on a Browns-Steelers week. You will go to jail.

Aside from that my goal is to make the guilty pay. What can be simpler?

BTW, none of this applies to PirateNews. Yes, we are watching. 99.9% of contrails are harmless, the .1% above PN, NOT harmless. Tinfoil helps, thats why we put stuff in the tinfoil. Yes, we have replaced all of PN's local cops with Nazi assassins loyal to the Queen of England. Yes, their orders are to give him routine traffic tickets. Yes, cats are involved.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.
"I agree with Hero." Niki2, 2011.

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Wednesday, December 28, 2011 11:08 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
Aside from that my goal is to make the guilty pay. What can be simpler?

Shall I leave behind a pistol for you, then ?
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LeaveBehindAPistol

No one is blameless, least of all you - therefore if you wish to hold the moral high ground on that point, your first appointment should be with a mirror, otherwise you're just one more petty tyrant in a world chock full of them.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Wednesday, December 28, 2011 11:58 PM

HKCAVALIER

I'm mystified that the standard of comportment of news readers hasn't changed in 20 years--feckless banter, sentimental posturing and, my favorite, cueing the audience to feel contempt for the "wacky" stuff they just have to report on. Who ever wanted that? I can't wait for the upgrade, when news anchors will be expected to be at least as knowledgible as the average google search would make you.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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