Imagine by canttakesky

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Imagine

POSTED BY: CANTTAKESKY
UPDATED: Tuesday, January 3, 2012 05:25
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VIEWED: 1466
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Monday, January 2, 2012 6:47 AM

CANTTAKESKY

Wow. This one hits the spot. Thank you Ron Paul. My favorite Paul ad so far.

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Monday, January 2, 2012 7:51 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Beautiful. Absolutely beautiful! So few seem able to see that, but instead think we have the right to be (SHOULD be?) the arbiters of what's right for the rest of the world because...I dunno, we have the might? Only we know what's right (despite proving over and over that we screw it up)? Whatever the reason, they're incapable of conceiving of how we'd feel if it were US on the receiving end!

And, uh, didn't Obama take us out of Iraq? The Obama logo in there is inappropriate to me; he has not STARTED any wars (yet!), only helped in the Middle East once and that without starting a war and keeping us there for years (or even PUTTING us there), added fewer troops to Afghanistan than the military wanted, and (hopefully) will be withdrawing us from Afghanistan. In other words, everything in that commercial applies to virtually every administration, every President who ever had the opportunity (or excuse) to start a war as much or more than to Obama. I know it's a political ad, he wants to be President so he's pointing at Obama, but that's a fallacy.

Nonetheless, I agree 100% with what it says, and wish all Americans COULD "imagine" it.

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Monday, January 2, 2012 8:08 AM

CANTTAKESKY

I'll spare Obama once he pulls us out of Afghanistan and stops selling arms to the Maliki regime.

-----
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

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Monday, January 2, 2012 10:59 AM

DREAMTROVE

That was awesome.

Quote:
Originally posted by canttakesky:
I'll spare Obama once he pulls us out of Afghanistan and stops selling arms to the Maliki regime.

-----
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

I won't, and neither will Ron Paul. I believe he said we should cease occupying foreign lands with US military bases.

Niki, surely you're not saying we don't have military bases in Iraq

* al-Faw Palace, part of the Victory Base Complex, headquarters of the United States Forces - Iraq in Baghdad
* Camp Adder, also known as Ali Air Base and Tallil Air Base, located in Nasiriyah
* Camp Ashraf, located near Khalis
* Camp Banzai, located in Kadhimiya, formerly Camp Justice
* Camp Bucca, located near Umm Qasr
* Camp Cropper, part of the Victory Base Complex near Baghdad
* Camp Dreamland, located in Fallujah, formally known as Camp Baharia
* Camp Fallujah, located in Fallujah
* Camp Liberty, part of the Victory Base Complex near Baghdad
* Camp Nama, located in Baghdad, operations moved to LSA Anaconda
* Camp Rustamiyah, located in Baghdad, formerly Camp Cuervo
* Camp Slayer, part of the Victory Base Complex near Baghdad
* Camp Striker, part of the Victory Base Complex near Baghdad
* Camp Taji, located near Taji, Iraq
* Camp Victory, primary component of the Victory Base Complex near Baghdad
* COP Shocker, located in Zurbatiyah
* COB Speicher, located near Tikrit, Iraq
* FOB Abu Ghraib, located outside Baghdad
* FOB Caldwell, located near Kir Kush
* FOB Carpenter, located near Salman Pak
* FOB Echo, located in ad-Diwaniyah
* FOB Falcon, located near Baghdad
* FOB Grizzly, located near Al Khalis, formerly FOB Spartan, FOB Red Lion, and FOB Barbarian
* FOB Hammer, located in Besmaya, formerly known as FOB Shakoosh,
* FOB Iskandariyah, located on the grounds of the Musayyib Power Plant
* FOB Kalsu, located in Iskandariya
* FOB Loyalty, located in Baghdad
* FOB Marez, located in Mosul
* FOB MacKenzie, located in Samarra, formerly FOB Pacesetter
* FOB Prosperity, located at as-Salam in Baghdad
* FOB Q-West, located just outside Mosul
* FOB Sykes, located near Tall'Afar
* Logistics Base Seitz, part of the Victory Base Complex near Baghdad
* Victory Base Complex (VBC), a cluster of U.S. military installations surrounding the Baghdad International Airport (BIAP).[1]

I don't think they're shutting down any time soon.

American Empire.

WTF do we have troops in Japan, they've been asking us to leave for decades. They think our troops are terrorists. Screw that, why do we have troops in the Philippines. I mean, I know why, because we fought a war there. It was a while ago.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Monday, January 2, 2012 11:17 AM

CANTTAKESKY

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
I won't, and neither will Ron Paul. I believe he said we should cease occupying foreign lands with US military bases.

Yeah, yeah. I stand corrected. I'll spare Obama or any other president who stops foreign intervention and pulls out our military altogether.

-----
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

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Monday, January 2, 2012 11:45 AM

DREAMTROVE

At least any that are not there with the open invite of the host country.

Quote:
Niki

Obama... has not STARTED any wars (yet!)

Pakistan
Libya
Yemen
Syria

Also, just a nitpicky point: Even if we who are outside call Afghanistan one country, it's not, and I know you know that. Ergo, when we [Obama] invaded more of afganistan, that really meant invading some sovereign states. Then there are few more arab spring revolutions which we all know are really CIA/JSOC coups.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Monday, January 2, 2012 11:53 AM

CANTTAKESKY

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
At least any that are not there with the open invite of the host country.

"Invite" is kinda iffy for me. Many govts "invite" the US in for a price, without consent of their populace.

But yeah. If say, the Rwandese invited us to come in and stop the genocide in 1994, I might be inclined to hold my criticism, as long as we leave when the invitation is over.

-----
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

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Monday, January 2, 2012 12:34 PM

DREAMTROVE

Actually, it's a sticky point. I was thinking of Korea. Ron Paul says "Korea is a wealthy country, why should we be paying for their defense?" Sure, fair enough, but it's not about money.

If Korea is defended solely by Korea, then that's not a very deep well to tap into, defense-wise, when the belligerent, North Korea, is being backed up by China. If China knew that to capture Korea all they would have to do was invade, they would do it right away, as they did in 1950. But knowing that doing so would put them at war with the United States is what has kept them from doing so since. Kim Jong Il was waiting for the US to withdraw, and Bush was actually helping him out. The idea that the US might leave is what has Korea pressing for an alliance with Japan and even supporting the change to the Japanese constitution.

So, sometimes I think it's valid for someone to invite the US in. Still, it can be problematic. It's a tricky topic.

ETA: I'm extremely skeptical of US involvement in Rwanda.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Monday, January 2, 2012 2:57 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Just to clarify, folks here are just fine w/ the clearly racist stuff that appeared in Ron Paul's news letter, which he first denied , then denied he knew anything about it, even though his name was on the cover ?

Per the video, it's woefully disingenuous, and really naive in how it views the world. We had troops, for a time, in Germany and Japan, after WW 2, in order to help rebuild those nations. We didn't just wander into Iraq, out of the blue one day, and set up a military base. The comparison to the Chinese or some other nation haphazardly setting up a base in Texas, for our own protection, is absurd.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Monday, January 2, 2012 5:29 PM

DREAMTROVE

What a dumb non-issue.

Lew Rockwell had a newsletter, it had Paul's name on it. Lew wasn't even editing at the time, it was Jeff Tucker, who only published the stuff.

Hey, I heard that some guy named Auraptor made mocking statements in ebonics accompanied by videos of blacks implying that they were associated with welfare and crime. Gee, I guess that means Haken must be a racist. I must make sure no one votes for Joss Whedon then.

Really, man, this is how lame this argument sounds.

ETA: Uh oh, DT just made a derogatory comment about the disabled. Or as kids today say: If you carry the PC thing too far, it just comes out sounding gay, and how jewish is that?

ETA2: How about instead, you just try to make a better argument against Dr. Paul's foreign policy. You might'a not noticed me criticizing in my last post, look again.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Tuesday, January 3, 2012 5:07 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:

What a dumb non-issue.

Lew Rockwell had a newsletter, it had Paul's name on it. Lew wasn't even editing at the time, it was Jeff Tucker, who only published the stuff.

Hey, I heard that some guy named Auraptor made mocking statements in ebonics accompanied by videos of blacks implying that they were associated with welfare and crime. Gee, I guess that means Haken must be a racist. I must make sure no one votes for Joss Whedon then.

I thought Ron Paul had a newsletter, claimed ownership, then claimed not everything in it was personally written or approved by him. Which is it ?

Either the reports are true, or they're not.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Tuesday, January 3, 2012 5:25 AM

DREAMTROVE

Rap

It's a political media trick, ain't it? You working for your homeboy Newt or something?

I'll grant that Paul handled it badly. I thought it was actually an error in judgment to let Lew publish something in his name.

But no, I'm not up to Howard Dean scream games, and I'm not going to dig up contradictory things Newt said or Mitt did.

Aim higher.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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