Obtaining evidence by torture hampers the course of justice. by oldenglanddry

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Obtaining evidence by torture hampers the course of justice.

POSTED BY: OLDENGLANDDRY
UPDATED: Thursday, January 19, 2012 18:03
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Tuesday, January 17, 2012 8:57 AM

OLDENGLANDDRY

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-16590662

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Tuesday, January 17, 2012 11:47 AM

OLDENGLANDDRY

Wot, no Rappy?

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Tuesday, January 17, 2012 9:23 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

I think those that torture are not particularly concerned with justice.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner

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Wednesday, January 18, 2012 5:09 AM

HERO

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:

I think those that torture are not particularly concerned with justice.

That statement is too broad to be accurate. Allowing terrorist acts to happen or terrorists to go free because all measures were taken is unjust.

What one needs is a balanced approach.

Torture is like French fries. They taste good and done nutritional value, but the downside can be bad, particularly if abused or relied on to the exclusion of all else.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.
"I agree with Hero." Niki2, 2011.

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Wednesday, January 18, 2012 5:12 AM

CAVETROLL

I kind of miss the old dictatorial regimes where they'd try you in a kangaroo court where the verdict had been decided before the judge had sat down at the bench. They'd give you a fair trial and a nice firing squad.

(Full disclosure; the preceding comment was total sarcasm.)

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Thursday, January 19, 2012 8:35 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Well said, Troll.

Quote:
I think those that torture are not particularly concerned with justice.

Also well said, especially given the fact that it's been proven over and over that torture results in information which may have no value, but was given because the person being tortured would come up with ANYTHING to stop the torture (remember McCain's statements on the issue), AND because it's also been proven over and over that there are much more effective methods of gaining information.

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Thursday, January 19, 2012 9:07 AM

HKCAVALIER

What I'm seeing is that folks these days are finding that "us & them" and "right & wrong" are simply not compatible. Sure, plenty of folk have both these dualities influencing their thought, but as you push the one, the other cannot be maintained. America seems to have been founded on the mix-up of these two ways of thought, and we've been suffering the consequences ever since.

The more focused on right and wrong a person is, the less "us" or "them" will factor into it. Contrary-wise, the more deeply entrenched in "us vs. them" a person is, the harder it is to have clearly defined "right & wrong," or, of course, two sets of right and wrong, one for the "us's" and one for the "them's." Which is offensive to anyone who takes morality seriously.

So, to the "us & them" thinker, I see torture considered the highest expression of justice. The reason they don't have the problems with torture that the rest of us do is because they believe that the victims absolutely deserve it--that their "us" can infallibly determine who is deserving of torture and who is not, that such distinctions are obvious to any right thinking person. While the "right & wrong" crowd recoil in horror.

This is the real cultural divide in this country. Look at Anthony and AURaptor, two self-professed libertarians. But one is deeply committed to "right & wrong" and the other utterly ruled by "us & them."

One thing's for sure: things will definitely be getting worse before they get better.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Thursday, January 19, 2012 3:40 PM

FREMDFIRMA

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Thursday, January 19, 2012 6:03 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by CaveTroll:
I kind of miss the old dictatorial regimes where they'd try you in a kangaroo court where the verdict had been decided before the judge had sat down at the bench. They'd give you a fair trial and a nice firing squad.

Don't feel too bad. They're still around. Iran comes to mind. Pretty much anywhere that they would convict a woman of adultery for being raped and execute her would probably qualify as well.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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