REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

On the subject of the health-care debate

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Thursday, April 5, 2012 07:47
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Thursday, April 5, 2012 7:01 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


I don't necessarily trust HuffPost, but nonetheless:
Quote:

Health care reform repeal would slam big for-profit hospital chains like HCA, Community Health Systems and Tenet Healthcare as uninsured people continue to flood emergency rooms and rack up bills they can't pay, according to a report released Wednesday by Moody's Investors Service.
.....
Since federal law requires hospitals to treat anyone who shows up in an emergency room, hospitals currently have to eat much of the expense from poor people who can't afford their medical care.

That deal collapses if the Supreme Court decides that all or part of the health care reform law is unconstitutional
.....
Moody's, an influential credit-rating agency, notes that if the Court strikes only the individual mandate or the mandate along with health care reform's insurance market reforms, the number of uninsured wouldn't be reduced and hospitals would still see their Medicare revenue significantly decline. If justices strike the entire law, hospitals would dodge the Medicare cuts but still face growing numbers of uninsured patients and may lose money on investments they have made to prepare for 2014, when the biggest parts of the law are due to take effect.

Hospitals have already begun to transform themselves to align with health care reform's goals of reining in the growth of health care costs. Some of those investments, such as wider use of electronic medical records and other information technologies may still benefit hospitals even without repeal by making them more efficient. Other maneuvers, like mergers between hospitals or acquisition of physician practices, may wind up losing the companies money if not tied to health care reform initiatives that create financial incentives for better coordination of care among medical providers, Moody's says.

Moody's also cautions that while a full repeal of health care reform would eliminate the $155 billion in Medicare payment cuts, the political drive to reduce the federal budget deficit would put them right back on the table.
.....
The hospitals' predicament mirrors the sticky situation health insurance companies face as they await word from the Supreme Court. The industry lobbied hard against the health care reform law and may be content to see the entire measure fall.

But a partial reform could create chaos in the insurance market for individuals and small business in 2014 and beyond. The individual mandate aims to pressure younger and healthier people into the insurance market to offset the expense of providing medical care to older and sicker people. Were the Court to repeal only the mandate, health insurance companies would have to abide by the law's bans against denying coverage to people with pre-existing conditions and limits on their ability raise rates on more expensive patients. Sick people could flood the market, driving up premiums, which in turn could drive healthy people to to drop their insurance, leading to even higher premiums for those who remain. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/04/supreme-court-health-care-ref
orm-hospital_n_1402842.html
just makes logical sense to me; if the mandate is killed, as they say, insurance costs would rise so that those with pre-existing conditions could be treated. If the whole thing is killed, the cost of ER visits will continue to skyrocket, as the only option people without insurance have.

You know what REALLY gets me? The mandate has no teeth anyway!
Quote:

According to a report by Congress’s Joint Committee on Taxation, the individual mandate in Obamacare lacks any real enforcement mechanism:
Quote:

The penalty applies to any period the individual does not maintain minimum essential coverage and is determined monthly. The penalty is assessed through the Code and accounted for as an additional amount of Federal tax owed. However, it is not subject to the enforcement provisions of subtitle F of the Code. The use of liens and seizures otherwise authorized for collection of taxes does not apply to the collection of this penalty. Non-compliance with the personal responsibility requirement to have health coverage is not subject to criminal or civil penalties under the Code and interest does not accrue for failure to pay such assessments in a timely manner.
This is probably, to echo the vice-president, a B.F.D. Without effective enforcement of the individual mandate, and with proscriptions against denying coverage on preexisting conditions, you’ve got yourself the potential for a pretty big moral hazard. http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/197046/mandate-unenforceable/dani
el-foster

So in essence, the Republicans are desperately fighting something that has no enforcement power!

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Thursday, April 5, 2012 7:10 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


ObamaCare is done. Over. Fin.

It was un-Constitutional to begin with (forcing people to buy something), a power grab by the government (control over health-care), and an invasion of our final privacy (do you know whats in your medical record? Blood, DNA, SS# everything you need to create a person, or persecute them).

I've got hope that the Supreme Court will overrule it, but I'm hedging my bets.

This was the crown jewel in Obamas "legacy". But, much like this "President", it was fake, false, and nothing more than smoke and mirrors.

There was a singular part of it I liked, however. An end to denial of service, or overcharging, for "pre-existing" conditions. But that was probably just thrown in to make it seem "reasonable".




"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"



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Thursday, April 5, 2012 7:21 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
ObamaCare is done. Over. Fin.

It was un-Constitutional to begin with (forcing people to buy something), a power grab by the government (control over health-care), and an invasion of our final privacy (do you know whats in your medical record? Blood, DNA, SS# everything you need to create a person, or persecute them).



What in the hell are you talking about. There is no control over health care in the bill, nor any invasion of privacy.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Thursday, April 5, 2012 7:22 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Quote:

ObamaCare is done. Over. Fin.


And so if Obamacare is overturned, will prices come down, and health care improve?

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Thursday, April 5, 2012 7:47 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


They don't care, obviously. That's undeniable by both the fact that the mandate was originally a Republican idea, and that they're paying for "freeloaders" NOW, via taxes, hospital and insurance causes.

Obama tried to change something for the better. That Cannot Be, it must be a government overreach, a power grab, SOMETHING really awful!

Obviously from how things are going now and have gone for a long time, if Obamacare is killed, prices will CONTINUE to go up and health care quality will CONTINUE to go down. And Republicans will continue to fight ANY effort to improve things, as well as continuing to try to kill Medicare and Medicaid. That has nothing to do with the argument; I know you've figured THAT out by now.



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