On the subject of wage discrimination by gender

POSTED BY: Niki2
UPDATED: Thursday, October 18, 2012 16:09
VIEWED: 1193
PAGE 1 of 1

NIKI2

Wednesday, October 17, 2012 11:19 PM (P)

I'd like to add an addendum regarding Dr. Warren Farrel. "In his own book, Dr. Farrel argues that although discrimination sometimes plays a part, both men and women unconsciously make trade-offs that affect how much they earn." Ergo, even in his own argument, he admits that discrimination exists. Also there is the fact that the cited speech was given at the CATO Institute, which, as Kiki aluded to, is a libertarian think tank that often works in coalitions with right-wing groups and which has increased its ties to right-wing policymakers over the years. Ergo to consider it an objective source is something I, too, would find difficult to do.

If anyone ACTUALLY wants to debate this issue, WITH FACTS AND FIGURES, I'd love to. That's the problem with Rap/Troll/etc. As I stated in the other thread, we realize this about you, Rap, and I'm extrapolating to believe that's how your cohorts feel:

Quote:
Raptor 5/23/12
Quote:
Byte: I don't think you're lying, I think you're speaking off the cuff. But it's important even then to try to be as accurate as possible, because when you're not, someone will call you on making a mistake.
Quote:
Yeah, a fair and truth-some statement. I do speak off the cuff, mostly, as I view these forums as more as free flowing conversations, and not term papers, to be accompanied by voluminous pages of cut and paste, or twenty seven eight-by-ten colour glossy photographs with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one. But that's just how I roll. Your usage may vary.

Given that, if you want to make statements like "I don't think there's a gender gap", that's fine. That's called "disagreeing", it's your opinion and we can go right on communicating. But when you make flat statements like you did, you are inviting others to show that your statement is wrong. That's called "debating". Calling people names because they say you're wrong is an infantile reaction.

If you want to treat this forum as a "free-flowing conversation", then accept that what you want to say is your opinion, and ONLY that, and don't snark at people who prove you wrong. If you want to "win" and PROVE your statement is fact, you have to be prepared to prove what you say--not with partisan puff articles, YouTube videos or opinion pieces, but with cites to factually-based material, and you can't dismiss material offered by others to prove their points. It's entirely up to you.

Along those lines, I offer:

Fact: Critics charge that pay differences between men and women are simply a matter of personal choices. In 2007, AAUW addressed this argument in our report Behind the Pay Gap, which analyzed earnings data for female and male college graduates one year and 10 years after graduation. We found that just one year after college graduation, women earned only 80 percent of what their male counterparts made. Ten years after graduation, women fell further behind, earning only 69 percent of what men earned. Dey, Judy Goldberg, and Catherine Hill. (2007). Behind the Pay Gap

Fact: After accounting for college major, occupation, industry, sector, hours worked, workplace flexibility, experience, educational attainment, enrollment status, GPA, institution selectivity, age, race/ethnicity, region, marital status, and number of children, a 5 percent difference in the earnings of male and female college graduates one year after graduation was still unexplained. A similar analysis of full-time workers 10 years after college graduation found a 12 percent unexplained difference in earnings. Other researchers have also found that the gender pay gap is not fully accounted for by women’s and men’s choices. ( Blau, Francine D., and Lawrence M. Kahn. (2006). The U.S. gender pay gap in the 1990s: Slowing convergence. Industrial and Labor Relations Review 60 (1): 45–65 an

1KIKI

Thursday, October 18, 2012 3:52 AM (P)

Thank you for citing actual studies.

SIGNYM

Thursday, October 18, 2012 5:18 AM (P)

www.pnas.org/content/early/2012/09/14/1211286109.full.pdf

When identical CVs were randomly assigned female or male gendered names and rated by science faculty for the position of lab manager, males were consistently rated as more competent, more hireable, and offered higher starting salaries and more mentoring.

Science faculty’s [NOT so-] subtle gender biases favor male students
Corinne A. Moss-Racusina,b, John F. Dovidiob, Victoria L. Brescollc, Mark J. Grahama,d, and Jo Handelsmana, Department of Molecular, Cellular and Developmental Biology, Department of Psychology, School of Management, and Department of Psychiatry,
Yale University, New Haven, CT 06520
Edited* by Shirley Tilghman, Princeton University, Princeton, NJ, and approved August 21, 2012 (received for review July 2, 2012)
g

OONJERAH

Thursday, October 18, 2012 5:51 AM (P)

My best friend ever from the age of 25 up and married a
soldier many years ago ... a retiring Army Master-Sgt.
For years, we stayed in touch by occasional phone calls
and the annual Christmas letter. But as soon as we both
had computers and eMail, Bill began to send me jokes ...
the majority of them are gender jokes of which he never
tires.

This one may show why Men really do deserve higher
pay than women.

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The difference between men and women:
Given a choice of catching a fly ball or saving a baby's
life, a woman will choose to save the baby's life every time,
without even considering if there is a runner on third.

Priorities.

NIKI2

Thursday, October 18, 2012 4:09 PM (P)

You are most welcome, Kiki.

Nothing from the right? Nobody wants to actually debate the issue? Should I save all this for the next time one of them claims wage-discrimination doesn't exist?

Oh well...