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REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS
NRA Prepared to make sure this never happens again
Tuesday, December 18, 2012 3:21 PM
ANTHONYT
Freedom is Important because People are Important
Quote:"The NRA is prepared to offer meaningful contributions to help make sure this never happens again.
Tuesday, December 18, 2012 3:37 PM
MAL4PREZ
Quote:Originally posted by ANTHONYT: http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/12/18/nra-shocked-saddened-and-heartbroken-by-newtown-shooting/?hpt=hp_t2 Quote:"The NRA is prepared to offer meaningful contributions to help make sure this never happens again. Hello, I will look on in curiosity and wonder to see what they propose. --Anthony
Tuesday, December 18, 2012 3:38 PM
AURAPTOR
America loves a winner!
Tuesday, December 18, 2012 3:50 PM
Quote:Sorry, Anthony, it's been a very long few days and I'm incapable of following up the other thread. Teaching makes my brain tired.
Tuesday, December 18, 2012 3:57 PM
CHRISISALL
Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: Buy every damn person in the USA a gun, AND a lifetime membership??? Oh, please! Santa make it so!!!
Quote: "False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil." - Socrates
Tuesday, December 18, 2012 4:11 PM
Quote:Originally posted by chrisisall: Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: Buy every damn person in the USA a gun, AND a lifetime membership??? Oh, please! Santa make it so!!! LOL, you kill me.Quote: "False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil." - Socrates Did you read this before you used it in your tagline? Just wondering.
Tuesday, December 18, 2012 4:15 PM
KWICKO
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)
Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: I specifically added this to my sig, because of exactly what it says. Why do you ask ?
Tuesday, December 18, 2012 4:18 PM
Quote:Originally posted by Kwicko: Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: Buy every damn person in the USA a gun, AND a lifetime membership??? Oh, please! Santa make it so!!! Socialism?
Tuesday, December 18, 2012 4:26 PM
M52NICKERSON
DALEK!
Tuesday, December 18, 2012 5:16 PM
Quote:Originally posted by m52nickerson: Willing to buy everyone a gun, but not health care...typical!
Tuesday, December 18, 2012 5:27 PM
Quote:Originally posted by chrisisall: Quote:Originally posted by m52nickerson: Willing to buy everyone a gun, but not health care...typical! ^^^THIS!!!!
Tuesday, December 18, 2012 5:31 PM
Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: Cost of a gun ? Damn near peanuts
Tuesday, December 18, 2012 5:48 PM
Tuesday, December 18, 2012 7:13 PM
ARLO
-.-. ..- -- / -.-. .- - .- .--. ..- .-.. - .- . / .--. .-. --- ... -.-. .-. .. .--. - .- . / . .-. .- - --..-- / - ..- -- / ... --- .-.. .. / .--. .-. --- ... -.-. .-. .. .--. - / -.-. .- - .- .--. ..- .-.. - .- ... / .... .- -... . ..- -. -
Tuesday, December 18, 2012 9:31 PM
SIGNYM
I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.
Wednesday, December 19, 2012 8:57 AM
NIKI2
Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...
Wednesday, December 19, 2012 9:19 AM
PIRATENEWS
John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!
Quote: McDonald v. Chicago, 561 US 3025 (2010), was a landmark[1] decision of the Supreme Court of the United States that determined whether the Second Amendment applies to the individual states. The Court held that the right of an individual to "keep and bear arms" protected by the Second Amendment is incorporated by the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment and applies to the states. The decision cleared up the uncertainty left in the wake of District of Columbia v. Heller as to the scope of gun rights in regard to the states. Initially the Court of Appeals for the Seventh Circuit had upheld a Chicago ordinance banning the possession of handguns as well as other gun regulations affecting rifles and shotguns, citing United States v. Cruikshank, Presser v. Illinois, and Miller v. Texas.[2] The petition for certiorari was filed by Alan Gura, the attorney who had successfully argued Heller, and Chicago-area attorney David G. Sigale.[3] The Second Amendment Foundation and the Illinois State Rifle Association sponsored the litigation on behalf of several Chicago residents, including retiree Otis McDonald. The oral arguments took place on March 2, 2010.[4][5] On June 28, 2010, the Supreme Court, in a 5–4 decision, reversed the Seventh Circuit's decision, holding that the Second Amendment was incorporated under the Fourteenth Amendment thus protecting those rights from infringement by local governments.[6] It then remanded the case back to Seventh Circuit to resolve conflicts between certain Chicago gun restrictions and the Second Amendment. http://www.nraila.org/news-issues/news-from-nra-ila/2012/12/victory-for-self-defense-and-the-second-amendment.aspx http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/09pdf/08-1521.pdf http://www.supremecourt.gov/oral_arguments/argument_transcripts/08-1521.pdf http://www.chicagoguncase.com/case-filings/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonald_v._Chicago
Wednesday, December 19, 2012 10:01 AM
STORYMARK
Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: "False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil." - Socrates
Wednesday, December 19, 2012 10:14 AM
Wednesday, December 19, 2012 11:51 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Arlo: Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: Buy every damn person in the USA a gun, AND a lifetime membership??? Oh, please! Santa make it so!!! Socialist. Next you'll be wanting someone else to pay for your internet service. -- -.-- / ... .. --. -. .- - ..- .-. . Um, WHO did you say you were, again and what are you trying to sell?
Wednesday, December 19, 2012 11:52 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Storymark: Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: "False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil." - Socrates I don't think there are enough anti-biotics in the world to deal with the infection in your soul, my man.
Wednesday, December 19, 2012 12:07 PM
Wednesday, December 19, 2012 12:08 PM
Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: It's called FREEDOM, and it's far from an infection. It's the natural state of humanity.
Wednesday, December 19, 2012 12:09 PM
Quote:Originally posted by Niki2: Arlo--he doesn't get it, does he?
Wednesday, December 19, 2012 12:31 PM
Quote:Originally posted by Niki2: Arlo--he doesn't get it, does he? What, he thinks the NRA could buy everyone in America a gun? The NRA exists to help gun manufacturers MAKE MONEY, not give things away. The only source that would buy or provide "everyone in America" with ANYTHING would of course be the government. Socialism. Ta da!
Wednesday, December 19, 2012 12:37 PM
Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: Quote:Originally posted by Arlo: Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: Buy every damn person in the USA a gun, AND a lifetime membership??? Oh, please! Santa make it so!!! Socialist. Next you'll be wanting someone else to pay for your internet service. -- -.-- / ... .. --. -. .- - ..- .-. . Um, WHO did you say you were, again and what are you trying to sell? The NRA is a private organization. How is it remotely 'socialist' ? I think you have a problem with your brain being missing.
Wednesday, December 19, 2012 12:42 PM
Quote:Originally posted by Arlo: Thanks for the clarification. A charity case that wants someone to buy them a gun. Better?
Wednesday, December 19, 2012 12:45 PM
Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: Good grief! http://www.ladyofthecake.com/mel/frank/sounds/joking.wav I know YOU love the idea of the govt giving everyone in America something, but then again, this govt is 16 trillion dollars in debt. So, it's not GIVING anyone any damn thing. Except a huge bill of debt.
Wednesday, December 19, 2012 12:46 PM
Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: Quote:Originally posted by Arlo: Thanks for the clarification. A charity case that wants someone to buy them a gun. Better?
Wednesday, December 19, 2012 12:51 PM
Quote:Originally posted by Arlo: Back to the NRA giving you a gun and a lifetime membership. Odds are they're betting the Darwin factor, via the gun, would probably play a part in making that lifetime membership short.
Wednesday, December 19, 2012 1:09 PM
Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: Standard Left wing retort. .snip. How old are you, btw ? Sound all of 20, from your posts. .snip. You're clearly clueless about what I posted, as you called me a socialist ! ROFLMAO!!!
Wednesday, December 19, 2012 1:28 PM
Friday, December 21, 2012 8:21 AM
HKCAVALIER
Friday, December 21, 2012 9:16 AM
GEEZER
Keep the Shiny side up
Quote:Originally posted by HKCavalier: So, wonder of wonders, the NRA came out today with their big plan: armed guards at every school!!! Whoohoo!
Friday, December 21, 2012 9:30 AM
Friday, December 21, 2012 9:34 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Geezer: However, after nothing else happened for a few years...
Friday, December 21, 2012 9:37 AM
Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: Quote:Originally posted by Niki2: Arlo--he doesn't get it, does he? What, he thinks the NRA could buy everyone in America a gun? The NRA exists to help gun manufacturers MAKE MONEY, not give things away. The only source that would buy or provide "everyone in America" with ANYTHING would of course be the government. Socialism. Ta da! Good grief! http://www.ladyofthecake.com/mel/frank/sounds/joking.wav
Friday, December 21, 2012 9:40 AM
Quote:Originally posted by HKCavalier: So, wonder of wonders, the NRA came out today with their big plan: armed guards at every school!!! Whoohoo! That'll fix 'em bad guys!
Friday, December 21, 2012 9:44 AM
Friday, December 21, 2012 10:01 AM
Quote:The National Rifle Association called on Congress to put armed police officers in every school in America. CEO Wayne LaPierre blamed many things in his press conference for the influx of mass shootings in the U.S. — everything from gun-free school zones, the media, movies, violent video games, hurricanes, and a lack of government funding. "The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun," LaPierre said. LaPierre also blamed lack of government funding. "With all the foreign aid … with all the money in federal budget … can't we afford to put a police officer in every school?" A lesser part of his speech placed blame on a media culture that he suggested promoted violence. He took aim at celebrities, video games, and movies for advancing that culture. "Another little dirty secret the media tries to conceal," LaPierre says, is "a callous corrupt and disgusting shadow industry ... vicious violent video games." He then called violent films "the filthiest form of pornography." "Then there’s the blood-soaked slasher films like 'American Psycho' and 'Natural Born Killers' that are aired like propaganda loops on 'Splatterdays' and every day," he said, "and a thousand music videos that portray life as a joke and murder as a way of life."Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/nra-press-conference-gun-control-sandy-hook-school-shooting-2012-12#ixzz2FiVpCMrq] Did anyone really expect otherwise? Let's get serious about what the NRA really IS:Quote:The National Rifle Association portrays itself as an organization that represents “4 million members” who simply love the Second Amendment. The truth is much more murky. In reality, the NRA is composed of half a dozen legal entities; some designed to run undisclosed attack ads in political campaigns, others to lobby and collect tens of millions in undisclosed, tax-deductible sums. Despite the grassroots façade, there is much evidence to suggest that corporations that profit from unregulated gun use are propping up the NRA’s activities, much like how the tobacco lobby secretly funded “Smokers Rights’” fronts and libertarian anti-tax groups, or how polluters currently finance much of the climate change skepticism movement. The Violence Policy Center has estimated that since 2005, gun manufacturers have contributed up to $38.9 million to the NRA. Those numbers, however, are based on publicly listed “sponsorship” levels on NRA fundraising pamphlets. The real figures could be much bigger. Like Crossroads GPS or Americans for Prosperity, or the Sierra Club for that matter, the NRA does not disclose any donor information even though it spends millions on federal elections. And like other industry fronts, the NRA is quick to conceal its pro–gun industry policy positions as ideological commitments. Take, for example, “The NRA Civil Rights Defense Fund.” It’s a pro–gun rights legal fund “involved in court cases establishing legal precedents in favor of gun owners.” And who helps pick which impact-litigation cases the NRA will become involved with? Folks like James W. Porter II, a board member of the NRA Civil Rights Defense Fund, who doubles as an attorney whose private firm specializes in “areas of products liability defense of firearms manufacturers.” His last client, according to a search of the federal court docket, was Smith & Wesson Corporation. Is the NRA working for casual gun-owners, many of whom, according to polling, support tougher restrictions on gun ownership — or is the NRA serving the gunmaker lobby — which is purely interested in policies that will promote greater gun sales and more profits? Any gun control policy debate should begin with this question. http://www.thenation.com/blog/171776/does-nra-represent-gun-manufacturers-or-gun-owners#] We know who they ACTUALLY work for, as evidenced by how many of their actual MEMBER support some gun restriction. They work for the gun manufacturers; they couldn't possibly come out with ANYTHING that would make FEWER guns available! How about we look at just some of the gun myths proponents alway give forth:Quote: Myth # 1 "The NRA's goal is to protect law-abiding gun owners and hunters." In fact, the leaders of the NRA are only interested in protecting the gun industry. If you look at the people on the board of directors and the executives of the NRA, you will find that many of them have something to gain financially from the gun industry whether they are gun manufacturers, gun dealers, or have some other stake in the gun industry. The fact remains: the only people who benefit from the actions of the NRA is the multi-million dollar gun industry. For an in depth look at the relationship between the NRA and the gun industry, read the book "NRA:Money, Firepower & Fear". Myth # 11 "Owning a gun will protect you from crime." An FBI report,"Crime in the United States, 1973" states that a gun kept in the home for self-defense is six times more likely to be used in a deliberate or accidental homicide involving a relative or friend than a burglar or unlawful intruder. More recently, criminologist Arthur Kellerman declared that for every case of gun use for self defense, there are 43 instances where guns are used in suicides, homicides and accidental deaths. But that number may be a bit conservative. According to Federal statistics, for every time a handgun is used by a citizen to kill a criminal, 118 innocent people are killed in handgun murders, suicides and accidents. Studies have shown that people who keep guns at home nearly TRIPLE their chances of being murdered. Whats more, a gun kept at home is 37 times more likely to be used to commit suicide than to be used for self defense. Still believe that possession of a gun makes you safer? Consider this : According to criminologist Arthur Kellermann almost 20 percent of the police officers who are fatally wounded with firearms are shot with their own gun. Myth # 13 "Israel and Switzerland have very high rates of gun ownership and they don't have our crime problems. This proves that guns are not the problem and gun control is not the answer." In fact, both Switzerland and Israel have much stricter gun control laws than the United States. All men in Switzerland are members of the militia and issued rifles by the government and these rifles are all registered and all ammunition must be accounted for. When it comes to handguns, the Swiss require a background check, a permit to purchase a handgun, and handgun registration. Apparently, Swiss gun owners don't consider this an infringement on their right to own a gun. Israel requires a license to carry, possess or buy a handgun and they conduct thorough background checks, including personal interviews. Myth # 14 "The NRA supports the law-enforcement community." Well maybe they did once upon a time, but not anymore. Each of the following law enforcement organizations gave strong support to the Brady bill: The Fraternal Order of Police, the National Association of Police Organizations, the International Brotherhood of Police Officers, the International Association of Chiefs of Police, the National Organization of Black Law Enforcement Executives, and the Police Executive Research forum. The NRA stood in opposition to all these groups. One tactic that the NRA has been using in recent years is to attack and smear any police chief throughout the country who publicly opposes them on gun control issues. A case in point is San Jose, California police chief Joseph D. McNamara who criticized the NRA and supported the Brady bill. The NRA ran full page ads in national magazines claiming that McNamara wanted to "legalize drugs, marijuana, cocaine, heroin, crack." But McNamara never advocated legalizing any such thing. It was a fabrication by the NRA. Another example was Nashville police chief Joe Casey who was also president of the International Association of Chiefs of Police. When Casey supported a waiting period for the purchase of handguns the NRA went ballistic and tried to get him fired. Most recently the NRA has been attacking the BATF and the FBI, calling Federal agents "Jack-booted thugs". Dewey Stokes, the president of the Fraternal Order of Police said on May 19, 1995 that "Every law enforcement officer in the country that does wear a badge ought to be outraged at what the NRA is doing." He went on to say that "We don't need the NRA making law enforcement officers, whether at the Federal or at the local level, targets of these hate groups." There are many more examples of the NRA's opposition to law enforcement agencies in the book "Under Fire: The NRA And The Battle For Gun Control". Myth # 15 The NRA has been saying that the assault weapons ban only affects guns with certain "cosmetic" differences that make them look more dangerous. The guns affected by the assault weapons ban are no more dangerous than any hunting rifle. That's like saying there are only "cosmetic" differences between a Ford Taurus and an M-1 tank. The features that the assault weapons ban applies to are not just cosmetic. They are features that make those weapons more suitable for killing people in battle than for hunting, target shooting, or self defense. Myth # 17 Guns are used legally in self-defense about 2.5 million times a year in the U.S.. This is a classic case of disinformation by the NRA. First of all, the NRA's claim of 2.5 million cases of self defense a year is a misrepresentation of Kleck's own results. Kleck had extrapolated from his survey that guns were used in self-defense between 800,000 and 2.45 million times a year. That's quite a huge margin of error there. So naturally the NRA takes the high end of that range and rounds up from that. Secondly, it is important to note that other criminologists have found serious flaws with this survey. The biggest problem is that Kleck let the respondents of his telephone survey determine whether their use of a gun was a legitimate act of self-defense. In other words if someone took out a gun and threatened a neighbor during an otherwise non-violent argument, and that person thinks this is a justified use of a gun, then Kleck would count that as a legitimate case of self-defense. Think about it. Any time anyone uses or threatens someone else with a gun, that person brandishing the weapon will ALWAYS consider their use of a gun to be justified. Even a criminal who shoots someone while committing a crime thinks that they are justified. According to the Census Bureau's annual National Crime Victimization Survey there are about 80,000 times a year that firearms are used in self-defense - a mere fraction of the number that Kleck's survey claims. Unlike Kleck's survey, the Census Bureau's survey is not just a single phone call. It involves trained interviewers who follow up with seven interviews with the same household over a 3 year period in order to verify the accuracy of the data. A good source of information about Gary Kleck and his survey is the Aug. 15, 1994 issue of U.S. News and World Report. The article lists other flaws that have been found in Kleck's survey results. Excerpts from http://rush_awards.tripod.com/truthaboutguns.html Tit for tat got us where we are today. If we want to be grownups, we need to resist the ugliness. If we each did, this would be a better reflection on Firefly and a more welcome place. I will try.
Quote:The National Rifle Association portrays itself as an organization that represents “4 million members” who simply love the Second Amendment. The truth is much more murky. In reality, the NRA is composed of half a dozen legal entities; some designed to run undisclosed attack ads in political campaigns, others to lobby and collect tens of millions in undisclosed, tax-deductible sums. Despite the grassroots façade, there is much evidence to suggest that corporations that profit from unregulated gun use are propping up the NRA’s activities, much like how the tobacco lobby secretly funded “Smokers Rights’” fronts and libertarian anti-tax groups, or how polluters currently finance much of the climate change skepticism movement. The Violence Policy Center has estimated that since 2005, gun manufacturers have contributed up to $38.9 million to the NRA. Those numbers, however, are based on publicly listed “sponsorship” levels on NRA fundraising pamphlets. The real figures could be much bigger. Like Crossroads GPS or Americans for Prosperity, or the Sierra Club for that matter, the NRA does not disclose any donor information even though it spends millions on federal elections. And like other industry fronts, the NRA is quick to conceal its pro–gun industry policy positions as ideological commitments. Take, for example, “The NRA Civil Rights Defense Fund.” It’s a pro–gun rights legal fund “involved in court cases establishing legal precedents in favor of gun owners.” And who helps pick which impact-litigation cases the NRA will become involved with? Folks like James W. Porter II, a board member of the NRA Civil Rights Defense Fund, who doubles as an attorney whose private firm specializes in “areas of products liability defense of firearms manufacturers.” His last client, according to a search of the federal court docket, was Smith & Wesson Corporation. Is the NRA working for casual gun-owners, many of whom, according to polling, support tougher restrictions on gun ownership — or is the NRA serving the gunmaker lobby — which is purely interested in policies that will promote greater gun sales and more profits? Any gun control policy debate should begin with this question. http://www.thenation.com/blog/171776/does-nra-represent-gun-manufacturers-or-gun-owners#] We know who they ACTUALLY work for, as evidenced by how many of their actual MEMBER support some gun restriction. They work for the gun manufacturers; they couldn't possibly come out with ANYTHING that would make FEWER guns available! How about we look at just some of the gun myths proponents alway give forth:Quote: Myth # 1 "The NRA's goal is to protect law-abiding gun owners and hunters." In fact, the leaders of the NRA are only interested in protecting the gun industry. If you look at the people on the board of directors and the executives of the NRA, you will find that many of them have something to gain financially from the gun industry whether they are gun manufacturers, gun dealers, or have some other stake in the gun industry. The fact remains: the only people who benefit from the actions of the NRA is the multi-million dollar gun industry. For an in depth look at the relationship between the NRA and the gun industry, read the book "NRA:Money, Firepower & Fear". Myth # 11 "Owning a gun will protect you from crime." An FBI report,"Crime in the United States, 1973" states that a gun kept in the home for self-defense is six times more likely to be used in a deliberate or accidental homicide involving a relative or friend than a burglar or unlawful intruder. More recently, criminologist Arthur Kellerman declared that for every case of gun use for self defense, there are 43 instances where guns are used in suicides, homicides and accidental deaths. But that number may be a bit conservative. According to Federal statistics, for every time a handgun is used by a citizen to kill a criminal, 118 innocent people are killed in handgun murders, suicides and accidents. Studies have shown that people who keep guns at home nearly TRIPLE their chances of being murdered. Whats more, a gun kept at home is 37 times more likely to be used to commit suicide than to be used for self defense. Still believe that possession of a gun makes you safer? Consider this : According to criminologist Arthur Kellermann almost 20 percent of the police officers who are fatally wounded with firearms are shot with their own gun. Myth # 13 "Israel and Switzerland have very high rates of gun ownership and they don't have our crime problems. This proves that guns are not the problem and gun control is not the answer." In fact, both Switzerland and Israel have much stricter gun control laws than the United States. All men in Switzerland are members of the militia and issued rifles by the government and these rifles are all registered and all ammunition must be accounted for. When it comes to handguns, the Swiss require a background check, a permit to purchase a handgun, and handgun registration. Apparently, Swiss gun owners don't consider this an infringement on their right to own a gun. Israel requires a license to carry, possess or buy a handgun and they conduct thorough background checks, including personal interviews. Myth # 14 "The NRA supports the law-enforcement community." Well maybe they did once upon a time, but not anymore. Each of the following law enforcement organizations gave strong support to the Brady bill: The Fraternal Order of Police, the National Association of Police Organizations, the International Brotherhood of Police Officers, the International Association of Chiefs of Police, the National Organization of Black Law Enforcement Executives, and the Police Executive Research forum. The NRA stood in opposition to all these groups. One tactic that the NRA has been using in recent years is to attack and smear any police chief throughout the country who publicly opposes them on gun control issues. A case in point is San Jose, California police chief Joseph D. McNamara who criticized the NRA and supported the Brady bill. The NRA ran full page ads in national magazines claiming that McNamara wanted to "legalize drugs, marijuana, cocaine, heroin, crack." But McNamara never advocated legalizing any such thing. It was a fabrication by the NRA. Another example was Nashville police chief Joe Casey who was also president of the International Association of Chiefs of Police. When Casey supported a waiting period for the purchase of handguns the NRA went ballistic and tried to get him fired. Most recently the NRA has been attacking the BATF and the FBI, calling Federal agents "Jack-booted thugs". Dewey Stokes, the president of the Fraternal Order of Police said on May 19, 1995 that "Every law enforcement officer in the country that does wear a badge ought to be outraged at what the NRA is doing." He went on to say that "We don't need the NRA making law enforcement officers, whether at the Federal or at the local level, targets of these hate groups." There are many more examples of the NRA's opposition to law enforcement agencies in the book "Under Fire: The NRA And The Battle For Gun Control". Myth # 15 The NRA has been saying that the assault weapons ban only affects guns with certain "cosmetic" differences that make them look more dangerous. The guns affected by the assault weapons ban are no more dangerous than any hunting rifle. That's like saying there are only "cosmetic" differences between a Ford Taurus and an M-1 tank. The features that the assault weapons ban applies to are not just cosmetic. They are features that make those weapons more suitable for killing people in battle than for hunting, target shooting, or self defense. Myth # 17 Guns are used legally in self-defense about 2.5 million times a year in the U.S.. This is a classic case of disinformation by the NRA. First of all, the NRA's claim of 2.5 million cases of self defense a year is a misrepresentation of Kleck's own results. Kleck had extrapolated from his survey that guns were used in self-defense between 800,000 and 2.45 million times a year. That's quite a huge margin of error there. So naturally the NRA takes the high end of that range and rounds up from that. Secondly, it is important to note that other criminologists have found serious flaws with this survey. The biggest problem is that Kleck let the respondents of his telephone survey determine whether their use of a gun was a legitimate act of self-defense. In other words if someone took out a gun and threatened a neighbor during an otherwise non-violent argument, and that person thinks this is a justified use of a gun, then Kleck would count that as a legitimate case of self-defense. Think about it. Any time anyone uses or threatens someone else with a gun, that person brandishing the weapon will ALWAYS consider their use of a gun to be justified. Even a criminal who shoots someone while committing a crime thinks that they are justified. According to the Census Bureau's annual National Crime Victimization Survey there are about 80,000 times a year that firearms are used in self-defense - a mere fraction of the number that Kleck's survey claims. Unlike Kleck's survey, the Census Bureau's survey is not just a single phone call. It involves trained interviewers who follow up with seven interviews with the same household over a 3 year period in order to verify the accuracy of the data. A good source of information about Gary Kleck and his survey is the Aug. 15, 1994 issue of U.S. News and World Report. The article lists other flaws that have been found in Kleck's survey results. Excerpts from http://rush_awards.tripod.com/truthaboutguns.html Tit for tat got us where we are today. If we want to be grownups, we need to resist the ugliness. If we each did, this would be a better reflection on Firefly and a more welcome place. I will try.
Quote: Myth # 1 "The NRA's goal is to protect law-abiding gun owners and hunters." In fact, the leaders of the NRA are only interested in protecting the gun industry. If you look at the people on the board of directors and the executives of the NRA, you will find that many of them have something to gain financially from the gun industry whether they are gun manufacturers, gun dealers, or have some other stake in the gun industry. The fact remains: the only people who benefit from the actions of the NRA is the multi-million dollar gun industry. For an in depth look at the relationship between the NRA and the gun industry, read the book "NRA:Money, Firepower & Fear". Myth # 11 "Owning a gun will protect you from crime." An FBI report,"Crime in the United States, 1973" states that a gun kept in the home for self-defense is six times more likely to be used in a deliberate or accidental homicide involving a relative or friend than a burglar or unlawful intruder. More recently, criminologist Arthur Kellerman declared that for every case of gun use for self defense, there are 43 instances where guns are used in suicides, homicides and accidental deaths. But that number may be a bit conservative. According to Federal statistics, for every time a handgun is used by a citizen to kill a criminal, 118 innocent people are killed in handgun murders, suicides and accidents. Studies have shown that people who keep guns at home nearly TRIPLE their chances of being murdered. Whats more, a gun kept at home is 37 times more likely to be used to commit suicide than to be used for self defense. Still believe that possession of a gun makes you safer? Consider this : According to criminologist Arthur Kellermann almost 20 percent of the police officers who are fatally wounded with firearms are shot with their own gun. Myth # 13 "Israel and Switzerland have very high rates of gun ownership and they don't have our crime problems. This proves that guns are not the problem and gun control is not the answer." In fact, both Switzerland and Israel have much stricter gun control laws than the United States. All men in Switzerland are members of the militia and issued rifles by the government and these rifles are all registered and all ammunition must be accounted for. When it comes to handguns, the Swiss require a background check, a permit to purchase a handgun, and handgun registration. Apparently, Swiss gun owners don't consider this an infringement on their right to own a gun. Israel requires a license to carry, possess or buy a handgun and they conduct thorough background checks, including personal interviews. Myth # 14 "The NRA supports the law-enforcement community." Well maybe they did once upon a time, but not anymore. Each of the following law enforcement organizations gave strong support to the Brady bill: The Fraternal Order of Police, the National Association of Police Organizations, the International Brotherhood of Police Officers, the International Association of Chiefs of Police, the National Organization of Black Law Enforcement Executives, and the Police Executive Research forum. The NRA stood in opposition to all these groups. One tactic that the NRA has been using in recent years is to attack and smear any police chief throughout the country who publicly opposes them on gun control issues. A case in point is San Jose, California police chief Joseph D. McNamara who criticized the NRA and supported the Brady bill. The NRA ran full page ads in national magazines claiming that McNamara wanted to "legalize drugs, marijuana, cocaine, heroin, crack." But McNamara never advocated legalizing any such thing. It was a fabrication by the NRA. Another example was Nashville police chief Joe Casey who was also president of the International Association of Chiefs of Police. When Casey supported a waiting period for the purchase of handguns the NRA went ballistic and tried to get him fired. Most recently the NRA has been attacking the BATF and the FBI, calling Federal agents "Jack-booted thugs". Dewey Stokes, the president of the Fraternal Order of Police said on May 19, 1995 that "Every law enforcement officer in the country that does wear a badge ought to be outraged at what the NRA is doing." He went on to say that "We don't need the NRA making law enforcement officers, whether at the Federal or at the local level, targets of these hate groups." There are many more examples of the NRA's opposition to law enforcement agencies in the book "Under Fire: The NRA And The Battle For Gun Control". Myth # 15 The NRA has been saying that the assault weapons ban only affects guns with certain "cosmetic" differences that make them look more dangerous. The guns affected by the assault weapons ban are no more dangerous than any hunting rifle. That's like saying there are only "cosmetic" differences between a Ford Taurus and an M-1 tank. The features that the assault weapons ban applies to are not just cosmetic. They are features that make those weapons more suitable for killing people in battle than for hunting, target shooting, or self defense. Myth # 17 Guns are used legally in self-defense about 2.5 million times a year in the U.S.. This is a classic case of disinformation by the NRA. First of all, the NRA's claim of 2.5 million cases of self defense a year is a misrepresentation of Kleck's own results. Kleck had extrapolated from his survey that guns were used in self-defense between 800,000 and 2.45 million times a year. That's quite a huge margin of error there. So naturally the NRA takes the high end of that range and rounds up from that. Secondly, it is important to note that other criminologists have found serious flaws with this survey. The biggest problem is that Kleck let the respondents of his telephone survey determine whether their use of a gun was a legitimate act of self-defense. In other words if someone took out a gun and threatened a neighbor during an otherwise non-violent argument, and that person thinks this is a justified use of a gun, then Kleck would count that as a legitimate case of self-defense. Think about it. Any time anyone uses or threatens someone else with a gun, that person brandishing the weapon will ALWAYS consider their use of a gun to be justified. Even a criminal who shoots someone while committing a crime thinks that they are justified. According to the Census Bureau's annual National Crime Victimization Survey there are about 80,000 times a year that firearms are used in self-defense - a mere fraction of the number that Kleck's survey claims. Unlike Kleck's survey, the Census Bureau's survey is not just a single phone call. It involves trained interviewers who follow up with seven interviews with the same household over a 3 year period in order to verify the accuracy of the data. A good source of information about Gary Kleck and his survey is the Aug. 15, 1994 issue of U.S. News and World Report. The article lists other flaws that have been found in Kleck's survey results. Excerpts from http://rush_awards.tripod.com/truthaboutguns.html
Friday, December 21, 2012 10:51 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Storymark: This, from the douche who went on and on about how a joke from a comedian about Obama being a deity reflects how the entire left thinks....
Quote: Its like you've made it your mission to embrace hypocrisy, while proving your ignorance of irony. In which case - you are doing remarkably well. Good job!
Friday, December 21, 2012 11:08 AM
Friday, December 21, 2012 11:22 AM
Quote:Originally posted by m52nickerson: Rappy you could just type "I know you are, but what I'm I?" it would be quicker and frankly more honest and argument for you. I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man. A warning to everyone, AURaptor is a known liar. ...and now a Fundie! http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=53359
Friday, December 21, 2012 11:49 AM
Friday, December 21, 2012 1:10 PM
FREMDFIRMA
Quote:Originally posted by HKCavalier: So, wonder of wonders, the NRA came out today with their big plan: armed guards at every school!!! Whoohoo! That'll fix 'em bad guys! So the next fellow who comes along wanting to kill a couple dozen children won't have anywhere to go! Um...except public playgrounds, boardwalks, theme parks, swimming pools, beaches, shopping malls... Oh well, it's the thought that counts, don'it, NRA? Why don't we just have armed gunmen on every street corner??? Land of the free! Home of the depraved!
Friday, December 21, 2012 3:32 PM
Friday, December 21, 2012 5:22 PM
Friday, December 21, 2012 5:26 PM
Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: nickerson - I've repeatedly shown where the Left has indeed referred to Obama as " sort of God ".
Quote: You're perpetual, childish refusal to face reality isn't MY problem.
Quote:You can cover your eyes and wish it all away, but guess what, truth is still there, still staring at you, and will be, for long after you're gone.
Friday, December 21, 2012 6:10 PM
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