REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Suspect # 2 in cuffs, on way to hospital.

POSTED BY: AURAPTOR
UPDATED: Monday, April 22, 2013 06:57
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Friday, April 19, 2013 2:59 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



Great.

That could have turned out much worse.


ETA - As the cops and firemen break and drive off, residents are filing up and giving them well deserved applause and cheering them for a job well done.

Relief.

These folks are well past due.

Good to see.

And props to the lady who noticed the blood stains in her back yard, and smartly called the cops. Bravo.

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Friday, April 19, 2013 4:47 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Great.
That could have turned out much worse.
ETA - As the cops and firemen break and drive off, residents are filing up and giving them well deserved applause and cheering them for a job well done.
Relief.
These folks are well past due.
Good to see.
And props to the lady who noticed the blood stains in her back yard, and smartly called the cops. Bravo.

Rare total agreement with you sir.

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Friday, April 19, 2013 10:17 PM

AGENTROUKA


Really glad for everyone in Boston. What an insanely stressful experience right on top of a horrible tragedy.

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Saturday, April 20, 2013 2:16 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



My guess is that the Boston taverns were doing a fair business last night.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Saturday, April 20, 2013 6:23 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


I agree with everyone (including Rap--don't fall over, it's not the first time). Watched with much relief and gladness for all the people spilling out onto the streets to applaud law enforcement. Good to see, and they deserved it.

Apparently the elder brother was interviewed a long time ago:
Quote:

FBI agents interviewed one of the suspects in the Boston Marathon bombings two years ago, but found no connection with terror groups.

Agents interviewed Tamerlan Tsarnaev in 2011 at the request of a foreign government that suspected he might have ties to extremist groups, the FBI said Friday.

"The request stated that it was based on information that he was a follower of radical Islam and a strong believer," the FBI said, "and that he had changed drastically since 2010 as he prepared to leave the United States for travel to the country's region to join unspecified underground groups."

An FBI official declined to name the foreign government, but said the FBI took a number of investigative steps to check on the request, including looking at his travel history, checking databases for derogatory information and searching for Web postings. More at http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/19/us/boston-suspects-no-links/index.html?h
pt=hp_t2


Can't catch 'em all, or catch 'em at the right moment, I guess.

Wonder what ever happened to our "false flag" folk? Father and sister apparently claiming they were framed, but kinda tough to frame THAT much, what with the convenience-store robbery, carjacking and killing of MIT cop, y'think?


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Saturday, April 20, 2013 12:35 PM

FREMDFIRMA



For mine own, I sincerely hope that we actually interrogate the bastard intelligently, in a hands-off properly videotaped process rather than torture him into saying whatever is politically convenient to the moment....

But I remain tenatively hopeful about this, cause it seems the powers that be went and did something right for once, to my gratified surprise, and instead of cutting we-the-people out of the loop and considering them an enemy and a liablity, they actually enlisted them as aid in running these motherfuckers to ground and catching them - which is AS IT SHOULD BE.

We don't *need* a locked-down, survellience society, all we really need is the american people themselves involved in their own defense and security, cause in the end Rosseau had it completely correct and outside of a miniscule percentage of shitheads (which all too often seem to wind up in charge, but that for another topic) people are essentially decent with no tolerance for this bullshit.

Much as I have an issue or three with Social Media, this is in fact where the very interconnectedness of our society truly shines, finding missing kids, handling pertinent issues, and running down fuckers like this - tis why for all it's flaws I value it.

Now, the SMART way to handle this would be display a little sympathy and encourage him to rant about his "cause", cause once you get them in that mental place as a they'll not only "talk", you practically can't shut them up - this is what we initially did with Khalid Shiek Mohammed, only he wasn't telling us what we wanted to hear so we went and waterboarded him instead, thus rendering any previous and all future info from him abundantly useless - which kinda bit us on the ass in regards to 9-11/Bojinka, which mighta been entirely preventable otherwise.

Regardless of whether this was a blown sting or not (something I still suspect is a strong outside possibility) we have a unique opportunity here to get into the mind and heart of a terrorist and figure them the hell out in such a way that may put the kibosh on future attacks, and despite a very strong desire for vengeance, something I completely understand and even sympathize with, we ought not waste it - nor should we demean the tattered remains of our judicial and legal processes in the doing. cause to do this RIGHT will not only send a message across the globe that we've recovered from our temporary post 09/11 insanity, but also will give heart to our own people that the nation they believe in still exists.

And forgive me this minor indulgence, but I am rather pleased by the message being sent all around the world at this very moment - fuck with us, and we *WILL* find you, and crush you like a goddamn bug - not our armies, not our intel orgs, not even our law enforcement....

But *US*, we-the-people of the United States of America.

We WILL find you, We WILL crush you, and consider it well before fucking with us EVER again.

Yanno, that's a message I can really get behind, dontcha know.

-Frem

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Saturday, April 20, 2013 12:48 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Problem is with that thinking Frem is that for most who indulge in these sort of acts, its a one way ticket anyway. And I don't use the term terrorist here, because it applies to the lone gunman as well. Once they pick up that gun, bag with a bomb, boxcutter, they've ended their own lives, more often than not. Not many seem to be planning on living after the event.

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Saturday, April 20, 2013 12:59 PM

FREMDFIRMA



Ah, but that gives additional, exploitable, psychological leverage there, Magons - the "okay, NOW what?" syndrome, as I call it.
Provided you can prevent them from offing themselves, which is admittedly a little difficulty, if you drag it out a while their own remorse will catch up with them no matter how much they think they have hardened themselves to such a thing, especially when it comes clear they'll now have to actually live with the consequences of their actions.

Hell, having a victims relative beg them to explain why might even crack them on the spot - cause for all the self-conditioning folks like this do, they're still HUMAN, with human weaknesses.

-Frem

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Saturday, April 20, 2013 6:49 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


"... we have a unique opportunity here to get into the mind and heart of a terrorist ..."

Do you mean we didn't have that opportunity with McVeigh or Muhammad (beltway sniper)?

BTW, I see a less innocent explanation for this. The older brother sounded deeply alienated from this country. That's no surprise, I think this country is deeply alienating. But what turns a deeply alienated person into a killer like McVeigh or Muhammad? I don't see the trigger or the turning point.

And you'd think that for all the time he must have spent thinking about this, for all the intelligence he displayed in planning and execution, and for all his proficiency in getting it done, he never did 2 things: 1) explain what it was all about for him, and 2) consider 'then what ...' after the bombings.

Lack of motive and lack of follow-up: those seem like two very big holes in the story we're supposed to believe.

Maybe someone can tell me what's going round right now about those two questions. But until I hear something plausible that plugs in the holes, a more likely explanation to me is that he was used by another group to their own ends, then left to twist in the wind.

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Sunday, April 21, 2013 7:08 AM

FREMDFIRMA



And we wasted it every time, alas - the very best one to have psychologically picked apart would have been Khalid Shiek Mohammed though, not only was he on the upper deck of such things and thoroughly familiar with the relevant power structure and politics, that man loved to hear himself talk, most demagogues do, really.

Initially, that one was handled by-the-friggin-book, they served a proper warrant and executed it in a combined operation between the Pakistani ISI and American Diplomatic Service, and the initial interrogation was a hands-off simple interview affair - and he gave us everydamnthing, not only did he spill his guts by talking boatloads of smack, the documentation collected from his place corroborated the stuff he was saying up to and including Bojinka, which made 9-11 entirely preventable.

The problem was, the things he was saying weren't the ones the cabal in power wanted to hear, so they dismissed all that stuff out of hand and waterboarded his ass damn near 200 times till he'd have confessed to nailing Jesus to the cross, and the resultant psychological destruction made him utterly useless as a source thereafter - not to mention between that, the Raymond Allen Davis incident, our fairly blatant assassination of Bhutto and quiet support of Musharraf, they're pretty pissed off at us now and quite uncooperative, feeling that perhaps we kinda deserve the backlash from our own dirty tricks, especially given we created or supported a lot of these fuckers in the first place, yanno.

Which brings us round to your comment in regards to alienation and hostility - see, we have a long standing habit of using folks to further our agendas while making all kinds of promises to them and then leaving them hanging out to dry, just ask the Mujahideen, who we left swinging after using them to kneecap the Soviets... can't ask Bin Laden about that though as he's been dead since December 2001, alas.

Some elements of our political circle, Richard Perle and his crew foremost among them, have been supporting Chechnyan aggressors (not quite sure what to call em as they do seem to have a pretty legit gripe) for some time now, although after baiting them into revolt and then hanging them out to dry when the promised support never came relations have obviously chilled.
That was naught more than a side story to americans and didn't get much media coverage outside of two large scale hostage taking incidents, one at a theatre and another at a school, but despite how reprehensible those were, and without making excuses for it - they were in retaliation for what amounted to attempted genocide, complete with midnight knocks, round ups and mass graves.

So it's not outside the realm of possibility that someone political was using these guys for info/contacts and making lots of promises they never intended to keep...
And what mighta sparked it I can only guess, but rolling their buddies to Putins goons in exchange for political points seems pretty likely, which they'd have taken all kinds of personal and chosen to act on it - and instead of putting the kibosh on it right there and then, someone else decided to feed them rope so they'd have a nice little yet-another-busted-plot to trumpet through the media as an excuse to justify the existence and abuses of various agencies, one that for once didn't start directly from a Federale plant winding up a bunch of losers.

Only somewhere in there the ball got fumbled, and now here we are.

There's credible testimony from Ali Stevenson, cross country coach of the University of Mobile, Alabama (via WPMI-TV) corroborating my contact at Indymedias assertion that there was a strong response from security/law enforcement personnel BEFORE the explosion, and his testimony adds the fact that they had bomb sniffing dogs with them, which my contact was too far away to have spotted since the crowd would have screened them from his vantage point.
(said contact was also very concerned he might be considered a suspect, since that response freaked him out and caused him to start running also before the explosion, in some clips he's visible as a guy in a white shirt.)
That on top of the whole "controlled explosion drill" supposedly taking place at the time, which I think was probably a cover so closing the noose on these guys didn't cause a panic, and I very strongly suspect they meant to nab these guys in the act and fumbled the ball on it.

Some folks also noticed a couple PMC personnel on site, but after asking around, it seems they were most certainly not in the loop on this (most of them apparently panicked and got the hell out of dodge) and were employed as additional security by the event staff rather than the city or law enforcement.

That is of course, primarily speculation and conjecture, but it's as solid a best-guess assessment as I can make with the facts at hand.

I am rather gratified that we got one of them alive, although I find myself more than a little suspicious of the unable-to-talk thing (what, no one thought to hand him a pen?) and will be rather put out if he suffers a convenient in-custody demise.

Seeing some discussion about how to prosecute a case too, but I am of the opinion we should flat out treat him like the common fucking criminal he is instead of playing into their game by glorifying them as some kinda "international terrorist" and related fanfare - fuck that noise, they're no better, no different, than a pack of gangbangers doing a driveby on a crowd, and should be regarded by the legal system accordingly.

That includes, mind you, presumption of innocence, effective legal counsel and a proper trial, cause we *need* to do that, else in the end we're just the same thing they are, only with bigger guns - torturing some bullshit politically convenient confession out of him would retroactively justify their actions in the eyes of many, and certainly wouldn't encourage cooperation with us on an international level... or a national one for that matter, cause all the american folks who put time and effort into trying to help catch these guys are gonna think twice about it next time if we don't play it straight here when we got the chance, you see.

-Frem

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Sunday, April 21, 2013 10:21 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


This train of thought started with me just watching them and trying to figure out what they were about. Two young males - one older and appears to be the leader. The older one looks Caucasian, the other fair skinned ME. I was considering as a unit they could be Israeli or Turkish. Both obviously well acculturated to US urban life - dressed in a way that doesn’t attract a lot of attention in an urban crowd, and able to move through US city crowds without causing a lot of awkward disruption. But not wearing sneakers, so not there casually, acting as some purposeful self-identified unit. That ruled out US rural bubbas (too urban), skinheads (for obvious reasons), foreign operatives from Israel or Turkey in the US (too well acculturated to the US).

Finding out later they were Chechen brothers who had been in the US quite a while (the younger one pretty obviously far more acculturated by his very hip urban dress).

I can understand the alienation of the older brother. The US ideal is an insubstantial life of family, too much hard work (if you're lucky enough to have work), and acquisition - especially the latest consumer gadgets, clothes and other 'cool' stuff like i-whatever. That trio is supposed to be the breadth and depth of American fulfillment. There's no community with neighbors, with co-workers, or with the society at large - no larger identity or goal, no social role, and no ability to count on the sociality of those around you. Everyone is supposed to do their own thing, as an individual disconnected from others. We are by design a society made for minimum cooperation, and maximal exploitation and consumption.

But many people live lives of deep alienation. What turns a person who simply lives out their life in this state into a mass killer - and especially two brothers at the same time? What inducement is powerful enough to encompass two brothers of two different mindsets to mass killing?

And then there's the lack of personal or group statement. And the apparent failure to plan a next step.

That's the wall I come up against the trying to parse this.

ETA:
Not that this was necessarily a bungled sting either. But they may have been led along by other groups for their own purposes.
At the same time I have very little trust in US officialdom. I HOPE that a lot of people who turned in their videos and photos MADE COPIES. I would hate for this to be another 9/11 where independent videos and footage were voluntarily turned over to the US/ confiscated, only to be disappeared by the government.

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Sunday, April 21, 2013 1:01 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Quote:

Police have publicly admitted they fear they may never be able to interview the only surviving suspect in the Boston Marathon bombing investigation amid suggestions those responsible were planning further attacks.


As senior law enforcement and government officials express doubts about ever being able to grill 19-year-old Dzhokhar Tsarnaev because of his extensive injuries, new surveillance video has emerged of the young man putting his backpack down at the marathon finish line and waiting for the first explosion.


He waits for the first to detonate and then moves away from the backpack, anticipating the second explosion, Massachusetts governor Deval Patrick said.

Boston Police Commissioner Ed Davis said detectives found a huge amount of home-made explosives after Friday’s marathon manhunt with Dzhokhar Tsarnaev and his brother, Tamerlan, 26.

Tamerlan was killed during an exchange of gunfire with police. Dzhokhar was shot in the throat, with a wound that appears self-inflicted, and while police and politicians say he can still communicate, they do not believe they can obtain information from him.

Boston Mayor Tom Menino said Dzhokhar Tsarnaev was in a "very serious" condition at a Boston hospital after being captured.

"And we don’t know if we’ll ever be able to question the individual," he said, without elaborating.

Senator Dan Coats, a member of the Senate Intelligence Committee, told American ABC: "It’s questionable when and whether he’ll be able to talk again. [That] doesn’t mean he can’t communicate, but right now I think he’s in a condition where they can’t get any information from him at all."

The death penalty does not apply in Massachusetts, but a spokeswoman for Boston’s Attorney-General said Tsarnaev would be tried under federal law – which allows the death penalty for murders committed during acts of terrorism.

Commissioner Davis said that, given the amount of explosives found with the Tsarnaev brothers, more attacks had been planned.

"We have reason to believe, based upon the evidence that was found at that scene, the explosions, the explosive ordnance that was unexploded, and the firepower that they had, that they were going to attack other individuals," he told US television network CBS.

Authorities are yet to say whether the brothers had help in carrying out the attacks, but it is believed they were not part of a wider network.


Dzhokar Tsarnaev was captured after a manhunt that had much of the Boston area in lockdown. He was found hiding in a boat stored behind a home. He had escaped during the gun battle with police, during which more than 200 rounds of ammunition were fired and the suspects hurled explosive devices at police.

During that confrontation, one police officer was killed and a transit police officer was seriously wounded. In the first showdown with police, Tamerlan Tsarnaev stepped out of their stolen car and was shot, according to one official.

With Tamerlan Tsarnaev wounded and on the ground, Dzhokar Tsarnaev moved to escape. He ran over his brother with the car in the process, the official said.

The bombs used in the explosions at the marathon finish line were made in pressure cookers and packed with nails and ball bearings.

With the younger Tsarnaev unable to speak, the focus is now turning to why the two brothers wanted to carry out such an attack.

The two were Chechen nationals who emigrated to the United States about a decade ago and in 2011, the FBI flagged Tamerlan Tsarnaev as a possible Islamic terrorist.

While Dzhokhar became a naturalised US citizen last year, Tamerlan was still seeking citizenship. Their father, Anzor, said Tamerlan had made a trip last year to renew his Russian passport.


The FBI is investigating suggestions that one of the brothers visited Chechnya and Dagestan, predominantly Muslim republics in the northern Caucasus. But some US politicians are concerned about how the bureau handled a Russian government request to examine the man’s possible links to extremist groups in the region.

Tamerlan Tsarnaev spent six months in Dagestan in 2012 and, analysts said, that sojourn may have marked a crucial step in his path towards the bombings.

Kevin R. Brock, a former senior FBI and counter-terrorism official, said: "It’s a key thread for investigators and the intelligence community to pull on."

An unnamed senior law enforcement official told the New York Times that the Russian government feared Tamerlan Tsarnaev could be a risk, and "they had something on him and were concerned about him, and him travelling to their region".

But the FBI never followed up on Tamerlan once he returned, the source acknowledged, adding that its investigation did not turn up anything and it did not have the legal authority to keep tabs on him. Investigators

are now scrambling to review that trip, and learn about any extremists who might have influenced, trained or directed Tamerlan while he was there, the newspaper reported.

A Russian intelligence official told the Interfax news service that Russia had not been able to provide the United States with "operatively significant" information about them "because the Tsarnaev brothers had not been living in Russia".

But Islamist militants in Russia have denied that they commissioned the attack. The primary rebel coalition has rejected any connection.

On the website Kavkaz Tsentr, the main mouthpiece of radical Muslim coalition Caucasus Emirate, the command of its Dagestan province said the US media should stop repeating Russian propaganda.

"The command of Dagestan sector points out that the Caucasian mujahideen are not fighting against the United States," it said.

"We are fighting only against Russia, which is responsible not only for the occupation of the Caucasus, but for monstrous crimes against Muslims.

"If the US government is really interested in establishing the true organisers of Boston bombings, and not in complicity with the Russian show, it should focus on the involvement of Russian security services in the events."

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/world/boston-bombing-suspect-may-never-be-abl
e-to-talk-20130422-2i8ww.html#ixzz2R8ohq2Xg



So what happens when someone is too injured to face court, I wonder. And if someone is disabled and badly injured, are they able to face the death penalty.

Horrible thought of carrying someone to their place of execution.

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Monday, April 22, 2013 6:18 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Bits and pieces, the only way we can put together the "why" and what's happening now...
Quote:

Despite being seriously wounded and heavily sedated, the surviving suspect in the Boston Marathon bombings is answering brief questions from authorities by nodding his head, a source with first-hand knowledge of the investigation told CNN Monday.

Authorities are asking Dzhokhar Tsarnaev whether there are more bombs, explosives caches or weapons, and whether anyone was helping him and his brother, Tamerlan Tsarnaev, the source said.

Investigators are going into Tsarnaev's room at Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center in Boston every few hours to ask questions in the presence of doctors, the source said.

It wasn't immediately clear what information he may be communicating to investigators.
.....
Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, meanwhile, remains in serious but stable condition, according to the U.S. Attorney's Office District of Massachusetts. A federal law enforcement source with knowledge of the investigation told CNN the younger brother has a gunshot wound to his neck, and he had a tube down his throat to help him breathe.

It's unclear whether Tsarnaev was wounded during his capture or in the earlier shootout with police that left his older brother dead, said the source, who spoke on condition of anonymity.

Quote:

Tamerlan Tsarnaev apparently became increasingly radical in the past three or four years, according to an analysis of his social media accounts and the recollections of family members. But so far, there has been no evidence of active association with international jihadist groups.

In August 2012, soon after returning from a visit to Russia, the elder Tsarnaev brother created a YouTube channel with links to a number of videos. Two videos under a category labeled "Terrorists" were deleted. It's not clear when or by whom.

In January, Tamerlan Tsarnaev disrupted a service at the Islamic Society of Boston's mosque in Cambridge, Massachusets, a board member told CNN's Brian Todd.

Tsarnaev was reacting to a speaker who likened the Muslim Prophet Mohammed to Martin Luther King Jr., the board member said. He calmed after worshippers spoke with him, and returned often for pre-dawn prayers on Fridays, the board member said.


This is happening here tonight, 6:45, starting in Ross:
Quote:

Also on Monday, the one-week anniversary of the Boston attacks, thousands of runners across the country will pound the pavement in a show of unity and support for the victims and their families.

At least 80 cities are participating in a "Run for Boston in Your City" campaign called #BostonStrong, organizer Brian Kelley said.

The global campaign is "a run for those that were unable to finish, a run for those that may never run again" and "a run for us to try and make sense of the tragedy that has forever changed something we love."


Not surprising people want to DO something, take some kind of action; we all feel pretty helpless and "out of the know" about what happened, and may never have our questions answered.
Quote:

The first image the nation saw of the two brothers may serve as more than a pivotal clue to investigators in the Boston Marathon bombings. It is, perhaps, a snapshot of their relationship: One leads, the other follows.

That's how some friends remember the Tsarnaev brothers: At 26, Tamerlan was seven years older than his brother Dzhokhar, who followed his big brother around like a puppy.

And with their father in Russia, the older brother may have become a father figure to the 19-year-old these past few months. At 6-feet-3, Tamerlan was, by many accounts, an intimidating presence with increasingly strong convictions about society and religion in recent years.

But the picture that is emerging of the now infamous brothers is also fuzzy -- just like the surveillance video.

An investigator who studied their video images after the bombings said the two brothers "acted differently than everyone else" -- they stuck around and watched the carnage unfold, and walked away "pretty casually."

Aquaintances of the brothers, now dredging their memories, find themselves short on clues. Many say both were likable and well-loved in their neighborhood, not loners driven away by society.
.....
As the oldest of four, Tamerlan seemed to see it as his duty to make sure his siblings didn't forget their Chechen roots. He was about 16 when the family arrived in America.

One sister had an arranged marriage awaiting her in Chechnya, Vasquez said, and "he felt the responsibility to make sure she stayed in line with that." That sister enjoyed the freedom of America, and Tamerlan had "an issue with that." He was like a shadow, always lurking in her presence.

"There was pressure to stick to your ways, your religion, your culture -- to respect that," said Vasquez.

But he saw no seeds of terror.

"He was a big friendly giant. ... There was nothing weird about him, nothing alarming," Vasquez said. "He never went around and tried to force his views on anyone."

Clearly, if the allegations against the brothers are true, something changed. Vasquez thinks someone must have "got in his (Tamerlan's) ear and he passed that along probably to whoever he could recruit" -- in this case, he believes, the younger brother.

"In what I've seen of their personalities, the brain behind this is the older brother," Vasquez said. "When it comes to the two of them, he would lead and the little brother followed."

It's not unusual for immigrants here to return to their homeland after high school. In fact, it's almost a rite of passage. Residents don't think twice when a neighbor travels to their country of origin.

Yet it is on visits back home in recent years, investigators say, that Tamerlan became radicalized. Shortly after returning from a six-month trip last year, he uploaded several videos to his YouTube account, including one of a well-known jihadist.
.....
The dad was an amateur boxer in Chechnya and wanted his oldest son to get even better training. Tamerlan was a physical specimen: 6-foot-3 and 196 pounds. He had a long reach, great quickness, tenacity and confidence -- the perfect combination of a young Muhammad Ali.

He wouldn't just knock out his opponents; he would annihilate them. "When he threw a punch, he was always right on the money, right on the target," McCarthy said. "Nobody could touch him."

After winning one fight in January 2004, the rising sensation told the Lowell Sun newspaper that he grew up in Grozny, Chechnya, and moved with his family to the United States the year before in hopes of starting a new life.

"I like the USA," Tamerlan said. "America has a lot of jobs. That's something Russia doesn't have. You have a chance to make money here if you are willing to work."

McCarthy ranks him as one of the best fighters he's ever trained. He won the open class heavyweight division for the New England Golden Gloves. The kid could've taken a gold medal at the Olympics, he said, but his immigration status prevented him from trying out for the U.S. Olympic team.

At the gym, the younger brother, then just 10, would tag along and do calisthenics with Tamerlan. "He was a cute little kid," McCarthy said.

He recalled registering Tamerlan at the Golden Gloves. "While he was waiting in line, he saw a piano and was playing classical music like it was Symphony Hall," McCarthy said. "Everybody in USA Boxing heard it, and they went in there and they were amazed."

Tamerlan switched to a different gym after two years. They didn't have a dispute, McCarthy said. It's just the way it goes in the rolling stone life of boxing. The kids come and go.

Yet Tamerlan didn't give up his dream. He registered again with USA Boxing from 2008-2010, but he never regained his undefeated form.

In 2009, his uncle Ruslan Tsarni had a falling out with Tamerlan. "I got into really a state of shock from changes I heard -- I wouldn't say I saw -- I heard from Tamerlan," he told CNN.

The uncle recalled a phone conversation in which Tamerlan called him an "infidel." The young man also told his uncle he was not concerned about work or studies because God had a plan for him.

Soon, Vasquez said, he vanished from his neighborhood. "I wonder what happened in that time we stopped seeing him around."

If Tamerlan was the reserved one, Dzhokhar -- known as "Jahar" -- was the outgoing kid, always quick with a joke. That was one of his goals, his friends say, to make them laugh. The only time they'd seen him mad was if he lost a wrestling match. Even that was rare. He was an all-star, 135-pound wrestler who placed in the state finals.

One friend remembered seeing how happy Dzhokhar was at the TD Bank Garden arena last year when he became an American citizen. It was an especially patriotic day for those in attendance because the ceremony was held on September 11, 2012, a date that seems tragically odd in retrospect.

"Right now, it's like a big puzzle and we're trying to put pieces together," said one family friend who asked not to be identified.

Dzhokhar was kind-hearted, too. When he wasn't wrestling in high school, he volunteered at an after-school program to help kids with autism and Down syndrome.

"He was a funny comical guy. He had me laughing a lot," said Peter Tenzin, who co-captained the wrestling team with Dzhokhar. "After wrestling practice, he would rather go down and spend time with kids with learning disabilities than relax and go home."

The city awarded Dzhokhar a $2,500 scholarship, and he assimilated well with students at the University of Massachusetts-Dartmouth, where he was studying engineering.

Like so many in the family's neighborhood, Tenzin faults the older brother -- saying he likely brainwashed the friend they knew. "All I can say is I think his brother put him up to it," Tenzin said. "There's no way in heck that he would do it. Mentally, he's just not that kind of guy."

"He loved his brother and looked up to him, and that's why I think (Tamerlan) put him up to this."

Though similar stories are shared around the neighborhood, another picture of Dzhokhar has emerged in the last two days: of a young man who partied on campus after the bombings and allegedly joined his brother in gunning down a cop, carjacking a man in Cambridge, then engaging in a gun battle with Watertown police complete with pipebombs and an explosive device like the ones that wreaked mayhem at the marathon.

"To see two brothers, both carrying leadership traits, flip the switch and jump into something so evil is astonishing," said Luis Vasquez. "It's not what we remember of them."


We may never know...or understand...


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Monday, April 22, 2013 6:57 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

One of the Boston bombing suspects set off alarm bells among his family a year ago during a trip here to visit relatives, ABC News has learned.

According to a family member, Tamerlan Tsarnaev, a devout Muslim, was kicked out of his uncle's house because of his increasingly extremist views on religion.

Tamerlan Tsarnaev spent roughly six months in Russia in 2012, but the relative, who insisted on anonymity to avoid offending other family members, insisted the young man had been radicalized in the United States before his trip.

Dagestan is one of the poorest and most violent regions of Russia, home to an Islamist insurgency that seeks to establish an independent state. So far, no links have tied him to militant groups here.

In a statement Friday, the bureau said it investigated Tsarnaev on behalf of a foreign government, though it did not reveal which one.

"The request stated that it was based on information that he was a follower of radical Islam and a strong believer, and that he had changed drastically since 2010 as he prepared to leave the United States for travel to the country's region to join unspecified underground groups," the FBI statement said.

The bureau said that in response to the request it combed through its databases and interviewed the man and members of his family, but did not find any evidence he was tied to terror groups.

"The FBI did not find any terrorism activity, domestic or foreign, and those results were provided to the foreign government in the summer of 2011. The FBI requested but did not receive more specific or additional information from the foreign government," the FBI statement said.

The family member described Tsarnaev's father and mother as good parents who are distraught at the news. They tried to evade the media today after granting several interviews a day earlier, even instructing family members to tell reporters they had left for Chechnya. The pair were briefly spotted, however, by journalists waiting outside their home.

The relative said he saw them Friday and that the mother was sobbing and the father suffered some sort of panic attack in the evening. Also on Friday, according to a security source, the parents were questioned by security services.

The relative said Tsarnaev's father is a "traditional Muslim" who eschews extremism. He couldn't imagine his son would do such a thing, the family member said. Excerpts from http://abcnews.go.com/US/boston-bomb-suspect-alarmed-russian-relatives
-extremist-views/story?id=19006449




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